Golfers Wiki » public golf

Worst course you have ever played?

admin — Thu, 17 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Steve, You obviously haven’t played Wayne Golf Course in Bothell. Tyee Valley is Augusta National compared to that piece of crap. 6 holes on the back nine are 3 pars including the whopping 97 yard 18th. The entire course is a 4300 par 65. What a dump. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to add another to my list of worst courses. Last summer I am in Roscoe S.D., population 320, probably no more than 20 miles from Mina where Payne Stewarts plane went down, for my Grandmothers 90th birthday and we decide to borrow my uncles neighbors clubs to play the Roscoe Muni. This is a 9 hole course where they literally take a farm tractor and mow it real low about once a week. The "greens" are sand that has been covered in diesel fuel and then raked in a circular pattern. Cost to play $3, $5 for all day or $75 for the year, honor system, there is a box where you deposit the greens fee. So I am standing on the 9th tee, maybe 120 yards over a large ditch, and my brother in law starts talking about how most people get maybe 1 hole in one in a lifetime and wouldn’t that be horrible if this is where I got mine. I dropped down a club and layed up just to be safe. Steve Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Unnamed course in lower Al. The fariways are so bad, you don’t repair divots; They thank you for weeding the course.

Response:

Ah, Wayne Public Golf Course. What fond memories. I played that a couple of years ago on a trip out that way. Where you need to walk under a roadway bridge and then across the bridge to get to the back nine. Where all eight tees on that side of the street are rubber and the tee areas are mats. I’m glad I didn’t have my clubs with me for that one. Where else can you play a 170 yard par 4? What I really ‘liked’ about the back were the par three holes, especially the ones that played right after that long par 4. Walk up a steep ridge to hit down to the green. After that, you get to walk up that steep ridge again and hit down to a different green. After that, you get to walk up that steep ridge yet again and hit down to a different green. Yep, three in a row and everyone of them the same. Only the distance changed about 10-20 yards. All I could think of as I was playing it was that they should copyright the term Goofy Golf. Thanks for un-burying those memories. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve, You obviously haven’t played Wayne Golf Course in Bothell. Tyee Valley is Augusta National compared to that piece of crap. 6 holes on the back nine are 3 pars including the whopping 97 yard 18th. The entire course is a 4300 par 65. What a dump. Paul I am going to add another to my list of worst courses. Last summer I am in Roscoe S.D., population 320, probably no more than 20 miles from Mina where Payne Stewarts plane went down, for my Grandmothers 90th birthday and we decide to borrow my uncles neighbors clubs to play the Roscoe Muni. This is a 9 hole course where they literally take a farm tractor and mow it real low about once a week. The "greens" are sand that has been covered in diesel fuel and then raked in a circular pattern. Cost to play $3, $5 for all day or $75 for the year, honor system, there is a box where you deposit the greens fee. So I am standing on the 9th tee, maybe 120 yards over a large ditch, and my brother in law starts talking about how most people get maybe 1 hole in one in a lifetime and wouldn’t that be horrible if this is where I got mine. I dropped down a club and layed up just to be safe. Steve Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Response:

I am going to add another to my list of worst courses. Last summer I am in Roscoe S.D., population 320, probably no more than 20 miles from Mina where Payne Stewarts plane went down, for my Grandmothers 90th birthday and we decide to borrow my uncles neighbors clubs to play the Roscoe Muni. This is a 9 hole course where they literally take a farm tractor and mow it real low about once a week. The "greens" are sand that has been covered in diesel fuel and then raked in a circular pattern. Cost to play $3, $5 for all day or $75 for the year, honor system, there is a box where you deposit the greens fee. So I am standing on the 9th tee, maybe 120 yards over a large ditch, and my brother in law starts talking about how most people get maybe 1 hole in one in a lifetime and wouldn’t that be horrible if this is where I got mine. I dropped down a club and layed up just to be safe. Steve

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played?

A municipal course near the museum in New Orleans was the worst I’ve played. The greens were in worse shape than many schoolyards I’ve seen, the fairways were garbage; David Laville’s company saved the day, and watching him hit the ball was a pleasure, regardless of the pasture in which we were playing. He told me that the groundskeepers who mowed the golf course were the same guys who mowed the public park in which the course is located, and that they didn’t know diddly about how to cut golf course grass. I believe that. The only plus to that course was that there were no alligators coming up from the bayous. Mercifully, I’ve forgotten the name of the course. Peter

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played?

Sunset Hill in Brookfield, CT… Nine holes, Five greens, one "fairway" and driving range mats on most of the tees. Cheers- Jeff Setaro http://people.mags.net/jasetaro/ PGP Key IDs DH/DSS: 0×5D41429D RSA: 0×599D2A99 New RSA: 0xA19EBD34

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played?

My home course–Gulf Winds GC on Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. Despite closing it down for seven months and spending $$$ to restore it. it still sucks. I had a shot yesterday from the middle of the fairway, right next to the 100 yard marker, and there was hardened, cracked earth beneath me. The greens which looked beautiful when the contractors left have turned to shit. It’s quite depressing. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? My home course–Gulf Winds GC on Corpus Christi Naval Air Station. Despite closing it down for seven months and spending $$$ to restore it. it still sucks. I had a shot yesterday from the middle of the fairway, right next to the 100 yard marker, and there was hardened, cracked earth beneath me. The greens which looked beautiful when the contractors left have turned to shit. It’s quite depressing.

EEEWWWWWW!! Soft, squishy, smelly brown greens So why has have the greens gone to ahhh. crap? Lack of maintenance or poor design and building? Both?!?! Just curious. Rod

Response:

EEEWWWWWW!! Soft, squishy, smelly brown greens

Yep, and it’s a bitch trying to get people to fix their ball marks! So why has have the greens gone to ahhh. crap? Lack of maintenance or poor design and building? Both?!?!

I really don’t know. Some of the greens are in pretty good shape–just a little bumpy. But others have small to large brown areas where the bermuda looks more dead than dormant. Maybe things will get better as the current growing season gets going. I’m more concerned about the fairways. The big deal about this renovation was that we were getting a "state of the art" irrigation system. If that’s true, then why the hell do I find myself hitting off of tight, hard lies all the time? It’s tough going for a high ‘capper like me. I have a gift certificate for a free round out at Padre Isles CC which has real nice fairways. I want to get a little of my swing back before I use it or I might lose ten balls on that course…..and then have to buy more for the back nine! :-) Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

Old Guilford Maine 9 hole course. They took a cow pasture that wondered up the side of a small mountain and cut the grass short. No landscaping. One consistant slope, no hazzards, no water, no trees, no distinquishable fairways. Hit it were you hit it and claim you are in the fairway. Who is to say otherwise? Driving ranges have more personality.

Response:

I’ve never played a bad golf course. Compared to being at work there is no such thing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – brandon woods, worst piece of shit i ever payed to play.

Response:

I’ve never played a bad golf course. Compared to being at work there is no such thing.

True… Even a bad day of golf is better than a good day of work. Cheers- Jeff Setaro http://people.mags.net/jasetaro/ PGP Key IDs DH/DSS: 0×5D41429D RSA: 0×599D2A99 New RSA: 0xA19EBD34

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played?

Well, I’ve played a lot of goat tracks, but I can’t complain too much because I played them mostly because they were cheap and I knew what I was getting into. I had fun playing, and that’s all that mattered. On the other hand, when I pay big bucks and find out the greens are recently areated, and there are temporary greens and repairs going on, and no notice of this in the clubhouse, that’s when I get a little upset. But, that said, here is a run down of some of the worst courses I’ve played: #1 Sherril Park, course #2, Richardson Texas. This is a course that I love and hate. The course is actually pretty nice, but when I lived there, it had bent grass greens that would die in the middle of summer. The greens would literally look like a battle ground with bomb craters all over them. When I left Dallas, they had just refurbished course #1, including new greens with a hybrid grass that can take the heat. They were talking about doing the same to course #2, so the problem may be fixed now. #2 The par 3 course at The Practice Tee, also Richardson Texas. Well, it’s just a par 3 course, so what do you expect, but they never water the "fairways", so hardpan lies are all you get if you miss the greens. In the summer, the black clay soil dries up and forms deep wide cracks that you can literally lose balls down in. I have personal experience with this. The nice part of this course, though, is that it has lights, and you can play it at night! Much better than trying to play when it is 110 in the afternoon. #3 Black Duck Muni, Black Duck Mn. The first hole is a blind uphill short par 4. If you haven’t played this course before, you have no idea where that green is, and when you get up there, the people on the tee box can’t see you, so watch out for incoming. I played it after a very intense rainstorm, and one of the fairways felt like it was floating. The whole ground shook like jelly when you walked on it. I had fun there, though, so I can’t complain too much. Well, there are other courses I could mention, but you get the idea.

Response:

It could become a great course if they’d move some tee boxes around. some things can’t be fixed but some could on #7 move he tee boxes up and to the left 100 yards. make it a par 5 with a drive over the water. That would also solve the (dangerous) problem on #5 and allow the fairway to be widened slightly (it is a downhill hole, the ball will run into the tall grass, lets be fair) #11. Get rid of the run off area into the pond, raise it to be a level fairway give a person a chance to get within 210 of that green, right now there is a 99% percent chance that you will run into the pond off a long drive #14, probably a redesign on that one, Right side should be raised up to be level, fill in the small pond make it fairway and some bunkers. have no clue what to do with the cartpath it’s just in the way

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the worst regular courses I’ve played is ‘Redtail’ it was newly redesigned a couple of years ago. The course is dry in the summer which causes most problems Hole #1. Cart path right across the fairway about 240 yards out Hole #5. A straight drive of 220 will knock out a person on the tee box of #7 Hole #7. Long Par 5 646 from the back. have to slice (yes slice) a drive to 215 and hope you don’t role into the water (most people, the local pro’s, hit into the other fairway for safety) Hole #11 Long Par 4 484 from the back. Water all along the left. Don’t even think of letting one get near the water, it will just roll down the 10 foot bank. Next shot will be about 250 to the green. Hole #14 Long Par 4 469 from the back. Water all along the right (STEEP bank). Usually have to try and lay-up but wait, the lay-up area has a cart path and pond/lake to the left and right Green is real small Most of the problems could be resolved if they’d build up the banks (flatten it out near the ponds) I’ve never played it in the summer, so I have yet to experience the problems you mentioned, but….. The course it replaced (Progress Downs) was the worst course I’d ever played. Moooooo. -Greg

Response:

A number of years ago, a friend and I were hunting sage hens in Wyoming. The area we were to hunt was several miles west of Bear Oil, Wyoming. At the time Bear Oil was a small oil camp with maybe 50 or 60 inhabitants — mostly living in trailers. About a mile out of Bear Oil I noticed a red flag on a pole out in the sage brush. The flag was only couple of feet higher than the sage brush which was near shoulder high. I took little notice until I spotted another red flag. I commented to my friend who ventured that it was some sort of seismographic activity. On the return trip from the hunting area, my curosity not satisfied,I stopped the truck and walked out into the sage brush. It was a golf course!! Someone with a passion for golf had taken a bull dozer and created a fairway by bladeing down a 15 to 18 yard strip of 300 + or – yards culminating with a small circular green – or should I say brown – about 10 feet in diameter. The flag in the middle. There were seven near identical "holes" built in a loose circular fashion. When the golf bug hits it is a serious malady. We did not play the course which I very much regret not doing. I presume it no longer exists and has returned to sage brush. I would have liked to meet the guy who so loved the game that he would create a golf "course" out of the harshest conditions. Bet he got a six=pack on Saturdays and had a hell of a time. Saddletraamp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Response:

It might also be the dumbest web page on the net. Duh!! Princeton what?? Something Canada as the pro is CPGA member.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.princetongolfclub.com/

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played?

Princeton Golf Club. Only played the first 9 but that was enough. Every hole was designed?!?!? if you could call it that, by a different member. The pro proudly told us that tidbit but he didn’t need to it was pretty obvious. The worst hole was the 3rd and the worst part of it was the green. On their site they brag about the "2 elephants" buried under the green but I can’t believe they actually think this is good. I’ll try and describe them. As you approach the green there are 2 tits staring at you, that is what they look like and not small ones at that. I have never seen anything so retarded on a golf course before or since. These "mounds" are so high and steep that there is no way that they can be mowed by any riding mower. Trying to putt over or through these is next to impossible. The fairway iirc had a lot of slope and curves to it… the 4 of us speculated that from some vantage point on the course you could probably see the outline of a figure… Bad hole even if the designer’s name was Muirhead. The next hole has an elevated tee and is right beside the highway. Any ball left is in traffic on a very busy 2 lane highway.(On a different trip through the area with the wife and kids I had a ball land right in front of the car. Kind of scary to think of being beaned on the windshield while do 100 k…) Just another well thought out hole on this course. As for the maintenance well if the had weeded the greens and watered the fairways… Oh hell nothing could have helped this course. http://www.princetongolfclub.com/ Rod

Response:

brandon woods, worst piece of shit i ever payed to play.

Response:

One of the worst regular courses I’ve played is ‘Redtail’ it was newly redesigned a couple of years ago. The course is dry in the summer which causes most problems Hole #1. Cart path right across the fairway about 240 yards out Hole #5. A straight drive of 220 will knock out a person on the tee box of #7 Hole #7. Long Par 5 646 from the back. have to slice (yes slice) a drive to 215 and hope you don’t role into the water (most people, the local pro’s, hit into the other fairway for safety) Hole #11 Long Par 4 484 from the back. Water all along the left. Don’t even think of letting one get near the water, it will just roll down the 10 foot bank. Next shot will be about 250 to the green. Hole #14 Long Par 4 469 from the back. Water all along the right (STEEP bank). Usually have to try and lay-up but wait, the lay-up area has a cart path and pond/lake to the left and right Green is real small Most of the problems could be resolved if they’d build up the banks (flatten it out near the ponds)

Response:

I’ve never played it in the summer, so I have yet to experience the problems you mentioned, but….. The course it replaced (Progress Downs) was the worst course I’d ever played. Moooooo. -Greg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Silver Oaks in Zephyrhills, Florida. Powerlines right down the middle of a couple of fairways. The par threes are decent holes, the rest is trash. It looks as though it was designed one hole at a time without regard to the surrounding holes or land. Bad layout. I played one place in Bardstown, KY last year that was all straight flat holes that looked the same, except for 2 on the back side which were downhill, and then downhill, uphill, like you would expect in KY or someplace not flat. They had 4 temporary greens were unputtable. If the greens are bad, then the course is automatically bad. If the greens are good, that goes a long way. tim

Response:

Now that we have our worst holes listed… what is the worst course you have ever played? Mine is Tyee Valley in Seattle. The locals call it Thunder Valley or SeaTac C.C. It is just south of SeaTac International airport. This is the main airport for Seattle and when I say just south, if you are standing on the 14th tee and wanted to hit a shot to the 16th tee, your ball would go over a runway. Landing light towers for the airport run right down the middle of the course, the entire length of the course. You have jet airplanes going overhead literally every two minutes, either landing or taking off depending on the wind direction. There is a constant smell of jet fuel. All that being said, if you took away the airport, imagine it no longer existed, this would still be the worst course I have ever played. There is no distinction between fairway and rough. The course is in Seattle and there is no drainage system. You would think you could score low there as holes are short and there are very few hazards, except for the fairways and greens. Once played there as part of a bachelor party with some low handicappers and they said the course is so bad, its hard. Once made a Sunday 8:30 tee time in late spring on a Thursday afternoon. Got to the course around 8:00, walked into the clubhouse, told him we had an 8:30 time and his response was "Your up". So we putt for ten minutes, walk to the first tee and a single walks up and says "They put me with you". I once said the following phrase to my playing partner on the course… "Someone needs to weed these greens". FYI… once had a 15 on the par 5 14th. Steve

Response:

No GA Boycott of Chicago

admin — Fri, 04 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Ok now you’re getting to your point. Yes we should tell everyone to avoid areas where there are TFR because those areas are deemed unsafe by the govt.

Great idea! There’s a telemarketer that keeps calling me to tell me I’ve won a trip to Orlando. I know the number on the caller ID by now, and the next time she calls, I’m gonna tell her that I’d love to go, but the Homeland Security people say that’s a big target for terrorists. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.

Response:

You’re making it way to complicated . . . you’re gonna be talking to ATC anyway so just ask Newark Approach for clearance into the Bravo space and don’t worry about the shelf . . . ask for vectors to the field if you need them. www.Rosspilot.com

Response:

To the citizens of Chicago: some day at 1 in the morning, Mayor Daley could decide that your public favorite recreational area (public golf course, municipal center, softball park, marina, etc) is needed for a higher purpose (like a high rise), and that he has an obligation to move forward without notice because of some "popular" reason X that particular day. It’s can’t be about Meigs anymore; it has to be about democracy.

Very well put! Sydney

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well any aircraft could be used to deliver bio-agents. See this fictional scenario: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/14/features-ciotti.php But so could a NY taxi cab and a taxi cab driving thru downtown Manhattan would be a much better delivery vector as it would go unnoticed. Ok you could have made your point with far fewer words but I agree. I am going to write a letter to Disney explaining why we will be avoiding their park. I hope someone in the press picks this up. I can envision a weekly "The most dangerous places to be" column in a similar vein to the "Most desirable cities" columns. The column could outline the current TFR around the nation and include all the tourist destinations within those TFR. Michael Eisner may stroke out seeing that column in the Wall Street Journal or the Economist. He would at least spit some morning beverage out at high velocity…. If we all write a letter to the editor of a local news syndication we may be able to get this into the media. possible start of such a letter: "A pilot friend of mine recently explained to me that TFR exist over many areas of the country and why. I’m wondering why I have seen nor heard no coverage on these TFR. My family is planning to avoid those areas and I think that the popular media should alert the general populace that those TFR exist and where and why. Most importantly "why" followed by "where". In case you don’t know they exist because the agencies of the Federal Govt. have determined that those areas are likely targets in the event of a terrorist attack from the air." Or is this over-the-top? Anyway, it might fly. (pun intended) Hmmm…

I think that Newsman has a point here! WE need to make a big noise about how "unsafe" we think that it would be to patronize the Mouse or Chicago or NYC or Washington DC! I can also imagine Eisner’s reaction to a letter to the Editor of the Wall Street Journal expressing these feelings! Eisner’s TFR is politically motivated — he has sought for years to ban overflights. If it hurts him in the pocketbook, he will reconsider. I recall some years ago, when Bob Crandall of American airlines wanted to ban GA from major airports. He was circulating the story that "nearly 70 percent of our near-misses are with private aircraft." When a few of us pointed out that he was REALLY telling us that "over 30 percent of their near-misses were between them and OTHER AIRLINERS, flown under positive control, with multi-pilot professional crews, and that those airl;iners represented less than 3 percent of the total civil fleet, he quickly sought out AOPA for a "partnership" program. — To get random signatures put text files into a folder called "Random Signatures" into your Preferences folder.

Response:

I’m sorry, but I can’t visualize it. Looking at the TAC, the 500 shelf appears to me to be 2 1/2 – 3 miles to the north. The airport is under an 800′ shelf, and right to the north its 1200. But that little pie-shaped piece of 500 is just about 1 mile off of RY 9. Departing RY 9 seems to require an immediate turn. All patterns are to the left. Coming from the west and landing RY 27, couldn’t you make a standard left pattern slightly below 800? Coming from the west and landing RY9, couldn’t you make staight in or standard left pattern under the 1200 shelf? Les

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Linden has a nice long runway, but its a bit tricky to find because the area is so built up. TPA is 800 ft because of the low class B shelf for EWR). If landing runway 9, you have to fly an upwind leg to enter the pattern – again because of the class B shelf which drops to 500 (yes 500 ft) just North of LDJ. RY 27 is no problem – std left pattern. On final approach to RY 27, you may be annoyed by the fact you are 300 ft above huge fuel storage tanks – but there is a good VASI. Be sure not to come in too low; there are power lines about 50′ AGL off the 27 approach end. Nice folks at on the UNICOM, though (123.00). Lots of helicopters during the week; less so on weekends. Morristown is my favorite – a good tower crew; but Linden is less expensive, untowered, and quite a bit closer to NYC. As others have noted – you need to file an ADIZ flight plan to operate to any of the airports you mentioned since al are within the NYC mode C veil (now also the NYC ADIZ). Have fun!! -RJL I’m planning a VFR trip to the Newark, NJ area on Sunday, to meet family for dinner. I am considering MMU, CDW and LDJ. LDJ is actually the most convenient. It also appears to be the cheapest from the standpoint of fuel and landing fees. Ground transportation is not really relevant, because I will be met at the airport wherever I land. I’m just a little concerned about the airspace around LDJ, but it also seems that approaches for the other airports overlap a bit. LDJ also seems to require a clearance into the Bravo, whereas with the others you can come in under the shelf. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations? Les

Response:

B. We don’t have any "obligation" to inform the non-flying public, but rather the boycott is self-serving in that by educating the public on the deception His Dishonor is trying to sell them,

Local surveys already show the 88% of the citizens don’t believe that Meigs was closed for security. They think that the Mayor was lying. VL

Response:

TFR’s preclude you flying in them. … —

Exactly. I am more than a little surprised that the responders to this thread have not recognized Scott’s tongue planted firmly in cheek: If TFRs preclude Flying into them, then obviously the area is sensitive and nobody should drive, walk, work, or anything else in that area. We really should put up a border guard at the surface as well as in the air, and evacuate those areas completely. Especially Disney World After all, it is much easier to position a dangerous device accurately from the surface, than to drop it accurately from several thousand feet.

Response:

local surveys already show the 88% of the citizens don’t believe that Meigs was closed for security. They think that the Mayor was lying.

Nope. They don’t *think* the mayor lied. They have a long history of factual knowledge to that point.

Response:

B. We don’t have any "obligation" to inform the non-flying public, but rather the boycott is self-serving in that by educating the public on the deception His Dishonor is trying to sell them, and its consequences, we can attempt to get the public to stand up for what is right (again, I think this is an optimistic goal)

We may not have any "obligation" to inform the public, but un un-informed public will gladly allow our politicians to close airports any time they say there is a need… If they don’t know otherwise, why would they object. — Matt Lang AirplaneListings.Com

Response:

(Rosspilot) is based out of CDW and can give you details of that airport.

File a flight plan so you’ll be in contact w/ ATC before entering the 30 mile ADIZ, and just stay with NY Approach to either Linden or CDW. If your friends/family are meeting you, Linden is closer to NYC, but Caldwell is only 30 mins away. Caldwell has a wonderful (if pricy) restaurant and multiple runways w/Tower . . . Linden is not controlled. Either will suffice for your purposes. www.Rosspilot.com

Response:

It is an optimistic goal especially if we limit the discussion to Meigs and its restoration. We need to paint a picture (easy to do, actually) that Meigs is a manifestation of a huge! problem. The message needs to be "Tell Mayor Daley that he is not the authoritarian ruler of Chicago by supporting the restoration of Meigs Field." By his actions and statements, we know that the mayor believes that he is a democratically elected leader and protector, and that the city of Chicago is his private sandbox. Only he knows what is best for the city. In his mind, he only needs their votes; he doesn’t need public hearings or referendums to determine what is best for his citizens and HIS property that they are allowed to use as long as he sees fit. He can figure that out by himself, thank you (not!) to anybody who wants to express an opinion or otherwise interfere with his work. By election, he believes that he owns and protects the people and the city, and only he knows what is best for them. They elected HIM afterall…. We shouldn’t spend the bulk of this effort trying to "inform" the public about all of the advantages of a downtown airport; we also need to educate them about how the mayor thinks as evidenced by his actions. We need to send the message that if they let the precedent set in the destruction of Meigs stand, then this will happen again. To the citizens of Chicago: some day at 1 in the morning, Mayor Daley could decide that your public favorite recreational area (public golf course, municipal center, softball park, marina, etc) is needed for a higher purpose (like a high rise), and that he has an obligation to move forward without notice because of some "popular" reason X that particular day. It’s can’t be about Meigs anymore; it has to be about democracy.

Response:

D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)?

Large scale WHAT? Did you say large scale antidote spraying? Ha. Ha ha. What are they going to do – load up a couple of Ag-Cats with a bunch of atropine and 2-pam chloride and buzz the city with it? Ha. Ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha…. That’s a good one! Ha ha ha ha ha ha…. — Larry Fransson Seattle, WA

Response:

My wiser friend persuades me that my ranting for a boycott of Chicago isn’t very wise.

AOPA thinks your friend doesn’t know what he’s talking about. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.

Response:

TFR’s preclude you flying in them. Your argument is illogical. — Kevin McCue PP-ASEL-Glider ‘47 Luscombe 8E Rans S-17 (for sale) —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Daley doesn’t know a damn bit more about threats to Chicago than DHS tells him. He’s a paranoid megalomaniac and belongs in a locked ward in a state hospital. Dave Reinhart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wiser friend persuades me that my ranting for a boycott of Chicago isn’t very wise. His points may be worthwhile: A. Boycotts don’t work, they cause anger and retribution. The GA population is too small to affect any large city. B. GA pilots are responsible and informed. But do we have an obligation to share this knowledge with our non-flying friends and family? C. The Department of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security Administration and the FAA (collectively: "THEY") know our enemies’ attack plans. THEY don’t know when, but they do know where – the "credible threats". While THEY haven’t really told everyone, THEY have told the GA community by establishing TFR’s. D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)? E. Since we GA types know where, but not when, THEY are expecting the attacks, shouldn’t we tell our non-flying friends, employers, coworkers, etc. how to learn about TFR’s and make informed decisions before entering a target area? While a mayor’s office or Disney’s offices may claim it is safe to visit, the continued existence of a TFR would seem to argue the contrary. Hmmm…

Response:

Linden has a nice long runway, but its a bit tricky to find because the area is so built up. TPA is 800 ft because of the low class B shelf for EWR). If landing runway 9, you have to fly an upwind leg to enter the pattern – again because of the class B shelf which drops to 500 (yes 500 ft) just North of LDJ. RY 27 is no problem – std left pattern. On final approach to RY 27, you may be annoyed by the fact you are 300 ft above huge fuel storage tanks – but there is a good VASI. Be sure not to come in too low; there are power lines about 50′ AGL off the 27 approach end. Nice folks at on the UNICOM, though (123.00). Lots of helicopters during the week; less so on weekends. Morristown is my favorite – a good tower crew; but Linden is less expensive, untowered, and quite a bit closer to NYC. As others have noted – you need to file an ADIZ flight plan to operate to any of the airports you mentioned since al are within the NYC mode C veil (now also the NYC ADIZ). Have fun!! -RJL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a VFR trip to the Newark, NJ area on Sunday, to meet family for dinner. I am considering MMU, CDW and LDJ. LDJ is actually the most convenient. It also appears to be the cheapest from the standpoint of fuel and landing fees. Ground transportation is not really relevant, because I will be met at the airport wherever I land. I’m just a little concerned about the airspace around LDJ, but it also seems that approaches for the other airports overlap a bit. LDJ also seems to require a clearance into the Bravo, whereas with the others you can come in under the shelf. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations? Les

Response:

Not true. Boycotts do work, they make the boycotter feel much better about doing business elsewhere and spending vacation dollars elsewhere. Wake up and smell the economy it’s not flourishing right now and every little bit hurts. B. GA pilots are responsible and informed. But do we have an obligation to share this knowledge with our non-flying friends and family?

Yes. C. The Department of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security Administration and the FAA (collectively: "THEY") know our enemies’ attack plans. THEY don’t know when, but they do know where – the "credible threats". While THEY haven’t really told everyone, THEY have told the GA community by establishing TFR’s.

Ok now you’re getting to your point. Yes we should tell everyone to avoid areas where there are TFR because those areas are deemed unsafe by the govt. D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)?

Well any aircraft could be used to deliver bio-agents. See this fictional scenario: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/14/features-ciotti.php But so could a NY taxi cab and a taxi cab driving thru downtown Manhattan would be a much better delivery vector as it would go unnoticed. E. Since we GA types know where, but not when, THEY are expecting the attacks, shouldn’t we tell our non-flying friends, employers, coworkers, etc. how to learn about TFR’s and make informed decisions before entering a target area? While a mayor’s office or Disney’s offices may claim it is safe to visit, the continued existence of a TFR would seem to argue the contrary.

Ok you could have made your point with far fewer words but I agree. I am going to write a letter to Disney explaining why we will be avoiding their park. I hope someone in the press picks this up. I can envision a weekly "The most dangerous places to be" column in a similar vein to the "Most desirable cities" columns. The column could outline the current TFR around the nation and include all the tourist destinations within those TFR. Michael Eisner may stroke out seeing that column in the Wall Street Journal or the Economist. He would at least spit some morning beverage out at high velocity…. If we all write a letter to the editor of a local news syndication we may be able to get this into the media. possible start of such a letter: "A pilot friend of mine recently explained to me that TFR exist over many areas of the country and why. I’m wondering why I have seen nor heard no coverage on these TFR. My family is planning to avoid those areas and I think that the popular media should alert the general populace that those TFR exist and where and why. Most importantly "why" followed by "where". In case you don’t know they exist because the agencies of the Federal Govt. have determined that those areas are likely targets in the event of a terrorist attack from the air." Or is this over-the-top? Anyway, it might fly. (pun intended) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hmmm…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wiser friend persuades me that my ranting for a boycott of Chicago isn’t very wise. His points may be worthwhile: A. Boycotts don’t work, they cause anger and retribution. The GA population is too small to affect any large city. Not true. Boycotts do work, they make the boycotter feel much better about doing business elsewhere and spending vacation dollars elsewhere. Wake up and smell the economy it’s not flourishing right now and every little bit hurts. B. GA pilots are responsible and informed. But do we have an obligation to share this knowledge with our non-flying friends and family? Yes. C. The Department of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security Administration and the FAA (collectively: "THEY") know our enemies’ attack plans. THEY don’t know when, but they do know where – the "credible threats". While THEY haven’t really told everyone, THEY have told the GA community by establishing TFR’s. Ok now you’re getting to your point. Yes we should tell everyone to avoid areas where there are TFR because those areas are deemed unsafe by the govt. D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)? Well any aircraft could be used to deliver bio-agents. See this fictional scenario: http://www.laweekly.com/ink/03/14/features-ciotti.php But so could a NY taxi cab and a taxi cab driving thru downtown Manhattan would be a much better delivery vector as it would go unnoticed. E. Since we GA types know where, but not when, THEY are expecting the attacks, shouldn’t we tell our non-flying friends, employers, coworkers, etc. how to learn about TFR’s and make informed decisions before entering a target area? While a mayor’s office or Disney’s offices may claim it is safe to visit, the continued existence of a TFR would seem to argue the contrary. Ok you could have made your point with far fewer words but I agree. I am going to write a letter to Disney explaining why we will be avoiding their park. I hope someone in the press picks this up. I can envision a weekly "The most dangerous places to be" column in a similar vein to the "Most desirable cities" columns. The column could outline the current TFR around the nation and include all the tourist destinations within those TFR. Michael Eisner may stroke out seeing that column in the Wall Street Journal or the Economist. He would at least spit some morning beverage out at high velocity…. If we all write a letter to the editor of a local news syndication we may be able to get this into the media. possible start of such a letter: "A pilot friend of mine recently explained to me that TFR exist over many areas of the country and why. I’m wondering why I have seen nor heard no coverage on these TFR. My family is planning to avoid those areas and I think that the popular media should alert the general populace that those TFR exist and where and why. Most importantly "why" followed by "where". In case you don’t know they exist because the agencies of the Federal Govt. have determined that those areas are likely targets in the event of a terrorist attack from the air." Or is this over-the-top? Anyway, it might fly. (pun intended)

The best way to get media’s attention about TFRs is to get a large group or association to cancell one or more events within the TFR because it has been identified as a potential terrorist target, and the TFR creates additional fear in your membership. One person, a dozen people, even many dozens of people doing this as individuals all writing into news organizations (like CBS, NBC, Wall Street Journal,etc.) will not get press attention in any major outlet. They get thousands of these each and every day, and they have people who’s only job is to open and "filter" the mail for important things that accidently got sent to their "main address", and not given to them through more established channels – i.e., who you know!. The local Chamber of Commerce complaining to their local newspaper/tv station about conventions getting cancelled would probably get covered by their business beat reporter. so the idea of boycotting Chicago, and making sure that the Chamber knows about it, is a perfect example of how a boycott could be successful in changing public opinion. Of course, by wholesale acceptance of the governments position that these TFR’s are in fact justified (why else would you stay away), you give the Feds more ammunition to shoot back at you with, when they start increasing the TFRs to ever larger areas… then what do you do. The next time the Dept of Homeland Scrutiny, oops, I mean Security, raises the threat level from medium to high, try suggesting to the local newspaper that we should remove the TFR over some large city and see the response you get. (editor’s note: look out for men looking for you in a white van with straight jackets). They have all the cards, except for the ones they don’t need. A think a boycott based on the terrible actions of Mayor Daley are far better in my opinion than legitimizing the TFRs as genuine representations of threat. — Matt Lang AirplaneListings.Com

Response:

My wiser friend persuades me that my ranting for a boycott of Chicago isn’t very wise. His points may be worthwhile: A. Boycotts don’t work, they cause anger and retribution. The GA population is too small to affect any large city. B. GA pilots are responsible and informed. But do we have an obligation to share this knowledge with our non-flying friends and family? C. The Department of Homeland Security, the Transportation Security Administration and the FAA (collectively: "THEY") know our enemies’ attack plans. THEY don’t know when, but they do know where – the "credible threats". While THEY haven’t really told everyone, THEY have told the GA community by establishing TFR’s. D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)? E. Since we GA types know where, but not when, THEY are expecting the attacks, shouldn’t we tell our non-flying friends, employers, coworkers, etc. how to learn about TFR’s and make informed decisions before entering a target area? While a mayor’s office or Disney’s offices may claim it is safe to visit, the continued existence of a TFR would seem to argue the contrary. Hmmm…

Response:

While THEY haven’t really told everyone, THEY have told the GA community by establishing TFR’s.

I don’t believe the above statement for one minute. The TFR’s do not follow credible threat, they follow bureaucratic wrangling, ass covering, and political influence. D. THEY (and we) know GA aircraft aren’t the risk. But THEY will need immediate and absolute control of the airspace above the attack site when (not if) the attack(s) occur. THEY will need the airspace for air support, damage assessment, quarantine enforcement and maybe even large scale antidote sparying. Will THEY route all GA aircraft in the TFR at the time of the attack to a designated airport for assessment, decontamination and/or quarantine (perhaps hizzoner wasn’t comfortable with Meigs being that airport for Chicago)?

Where did this piece of fallacy come up from?

Response:

I think you and your wise friend are missing the point: A. The purpose of the boycott is to pressure on Chicago people/businesses so that they will put pressure on their govt. to take corrective action. It is also meant to be a punitive/preventative action on the part of GA to send a message to other forces considering similar actions in the future. While I do agree that GA’s power is limited and unlikely to make a big impact on a large city like Chicago, I think doing nothing sends an even more desrtructive message, i.e. that GA is likely to sit passively by for future actions (especially considering the symbolic importance of Meigs and the extreme nature of Boss Daley’s actions). B. We don’t have any "obligation" to inform the non-flying public, but rather the boycott is self-serving in that by educating the public on the deception His Dishonor is trying to sell them, and its consequences, we can attempt to get the public to stand up for what is right (again, I think this is an optimistic goal) C,D,E. Not sure what boycott-related point your friend is trying to make here, unless these items are meant to demonstrate that the Meigs shutdown was actually justified by security issues. I would hope that everyone knowlegable in GA recognizes that any link between Meigs closing and "homeland security" is laughable.

Response:

I’m planning a VFR trip to the Newark, NJ area on Sunday, to meet family for dinner. I am considering MMU, CDW and LDJ. LDJ is actually the most convenient. It also appears to be the cheapest from the standpoint of fuel and landing fees. Ground transportation is not really relevant, because I will be met at the airport wherever I land. I’m just a little concerned about the airspace around LDJ, but it also seems that approaches for the other airports overlap a bit. LDJ also seems to require a clearance into the Bravo, whereas with the others you can come in under the shelf. Any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations? Les

Response:

I’m just a little concerned about the airspace around LDJ, but it also seems that approaches for the other airports overlap a bit. LDJ also seems to require a clearance into the Bravo, whereas with the others you can come in under the shelf.

Linden is also under a shelf. The class B starts at 1200′ over Linden if you come in from a southerly or westerly direction. Contact John Price. He used to be based out of there. Lee Ross (Rosspilot) is based out of CDW and can give you details of that airport. John’s web site is http://home.att.net/~jm.price Lee’s site is http://www.skyviewpictures.com George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.

Response:

Forgot to mention. You’ll need a flight plan, discrete squawk code, and be in constant communication with ATC to get within the 30 mile veil. George Patterson "Cuius testiculos habes, habeas cardia et cerebellum." – When you have their full attention in your grip, their hearts and minds will follow.

Response:

"Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict the more glorious the triumph." Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, December, 1776

Response:

my jelousy knows no bounds

admin — Tue, 11 Mar 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

you guys over in the states are lucky that you get the RSG events. ive been looking into them and they look like great fun, however i have no way to get to america, so im stuck here. Just to let you guys know how lucky you are (unless you live, like, hundreds of miles away, in which case youre in the same boat as me) that you can enter. Thanks Tim

Response:

Where do you live Tim? Eric

Response:

Tim, I see you have a bt email address so I guess you live in the UK. You should try the uk.sport.golf newsgroup where we have a uksg event mid May and a couple of one day events, one in the North of England and one near London, later on in the year. Crispin Roche

Response:

Tim, In a few months it won’t matter, anyway. There is already a bill being pushed through the Senate, which will give the Federal Government special emergency power to condemn and confiscate all private, and public golf course properties here in the U.S. Although the reason for this unusual measure is classified, an unnamed government official has been quoted as saying "We can expect massive numbers of Iraqi refugees, prisoners, orphans, and elderly, once this military action has commenced." "Where else can we going to put them?"

Response:

why don’t you make your own event…..there gotta be some guys in your area that are in RSG

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – you guys over in the states are lucky that you get the RSG events. ive been looking into them and they look like great fun, however i have no way to get to america, so im stuck here. Just to let you guys know how lucky you are (unless you live, like, hundreds of miles away, in which case youre in the same boat as me) that you can enter. Thanks Tim

Response:

uk.sport.golf annual North v South match, May 11-12, near Birmingham. You would be welcome to come and play, no problem. Pretend it’s Birmingham, Alabama if you like.

Response:

Winter Vacation

admin — Sat, 16 Nov 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel

Joel, How nice it is to meet you!!! My name is Abe. Don’t listen to the negativism you have heard about Mr. Hibbard and Palm Coast. A short visit will forever change your life and your golf game. Do me a favor…take a look at your thumb. Now what do you see? A thumb? No indeed, it is an instrument, a tool, a device that will change your life forever. I bet you didn’t know the "Secret of the Thumb" Just take that lead thumb, put it over your stinken trail shoulder, and retrace the path going down and you are GUARANTEED a straight shot with a gain of at least 30 yards from where you are now. By doing thumb drills for 15 minutes every day, you life will be enriched and have new meaning. And it will go beyond your golf game. My wife Bertha just loves my thumb. She has been ignoring me for 10 years and i have become dependent on Viagra. With my new found secret, my wife longs for me every moment and gets on her knees and begs for my thumb. Goodby Viagra. Check Mr. Hibbard’s website and you will find over 500 testimonials. You will find nothing but admiration for someone who had humble beginnings at an Ivy League school. And you will find the success that others have found though this secret. Thumbs up! joel, if you are interested also, i am starting a business called Thumb Enterpises. Will be happy to do on -site consulting…please let me know. Goota go…Bertha needs my thumb!!! Abe

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel Lots of courses here in Palm Coast, FL. Lots of Canadians come here. Nice in-town hotel has rates in the $60 a day range. Great climate during the winter – . Want details? Phone if you’d like. 800 XXX-XXXX George Hibbard Thats SPAM, George, and you know it. You deliberately give the poster *your* phone number, not the Tourist Bureau or a link such as http://www.floridanetlink.com/flagler.htm Don’t give us the innocent " I was only trying to help" bullshit either, because that won’t fly. All this does is prove once again that your only reason for your presence on this newsgroup is to SPAM for customers.

What a sick reaction! I have zero interests in PC for vacationers! Sick. I DO have personal experience in this area to fill in the blanks. I’m quite sure the poster could easily access bureaus, etc. What on earth do you imagine I have to gain by offering the kind of help requested? Sick.

Response:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing…

Joel, try Myrtle Beach, South Carolina area. Not as warm as Florida but usually comfortable for Canadians. We have found package deals for $245 Canadian for 7 nights in a one bedroom condo on the golf course including greens fees (7) at our choice of 30 courses, carts extra ($20). This price was for two people! Taxes were extra. Good Luck Robert

Response:

Thanks Jim. may be just what we are looking for… Never thought of going inland… fore!! j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Might do a search on Sebring Fl and Golf. Golf is less expensive inland away for the Beach. A number of places have great golf packages. Jim (Lives on a Golf Course in Sebring) Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thats SPAM, George, and you know it. You deliberately give the poster *your* phone number, not the Tourist Bureau or a link such as http://www.floridanetlink.com/flagler.htm What a sick reaction! I have zero interests in PC for vacationers! Sick. I DO have personal experience in this area to fill in the blanks. I’m quite sure the poster could easily access bureaus, etc. What on earth do you imagine I have to gain by offering the kind of help requested? Sick.

You have 100% interest in any golfer/vacationer coming to Florida, or you really are an idiot. You have one more student to gain by offering your phone number. That would help, George. Then maybe you could take an hour off, at least one day, from posting to RSG. You’d be a real teacher, with a real student. ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk

Response:

He’s absolutely shameless. Anything to promote himself. The man is devoid of anything faintly resembling integrity. Hard to believe, but apparently true. What a sad case. Desperate, really. Grasping, all the time. Anyone who does business with him absolutely deserves whatever they get.

Response:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing…

Three months is a long time! The usual tourist traps like Fla., and Myrtle Beach will cost you one way or another. The Gulf coast can also cost you; courses in the winter suck but they still charge high green fees (they think 60 bucks for a round of golf is a bargain!). You might want to look at the Robert Trent Jones courses in Alabama. You could just move around. If you drove along I-20 from Atlanta to the dreaded Metroplex, you could probably find all the golf you could ever want, with maybe a little help from locals who post here. Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )

Response:

Thanks Frost back, Thank you for the reply and the suggestions , We will most likely drive around central Florida and have a couple of weeks at different locations. If we just get in about two rounds a week that will be enough… We can sightsee the rest of the time… fore! j – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… Three months is a long time! The usual tourist traps like Fla., and Myrtle Beach will cost you one way or another. The Gulf coast can also cost you; courses in the winter suck but they still charge high green fees (they think 60 bucks for a round of golf is a bargain!). You might want to look at the Robert Trent Jones courses in Alabama. You could just move around. If you drove along I-20 from Atlanta to the dreaded Metroplex, you could probably find all the golf you could ever want, with maybe a little help from locals who post here. Rob

Response:

If you are a senior, you can play all of the golf you can stand ( during the weekdays) on decent courses for $25.00 to $35.00 including a cart in and around Houston TX. For accommodations, I’d try some of the newer "long stay" motel/apartments that seem to be rising everywhere here. They advertise rates that are attractive on a weekly basis for furnished apartments. I’ve never been inside of one, but some are in good locations. One name of a "long stay" place is Extended Stay America http://www.extendedstay.com . Weather here is usually in the 60’s during the short Winter. All of the conveniences and problems of American’s fourth largest city is a short drive away. Another location is Waterwood National in Huntsville TX. It is a Pete Dye course about 40 miles North of Houston. They have condos etc. for rent and a fine golf course to play. However, after playing golf, I don’t know what else there would be to do all day and night. It is lost in the piney woods. If you like fishing, it is located on a large lake; ( Lake Livingston). Hope this helps. — RichG –

Response:

Is anyone in Texas still taking the CDN $ at par ?

These Texans can be gullible at times, but they are not *that* gullible!!!!!! I do believe that at one time there were a couple fo resorts/courses taking the CAN$ at par to encourage winter tourism. A friend of mine was down there some years ago, and he said it was the cheapest golf on some of the nicest courses he had ever played. I guess the folks at the courses were really good too when they learned he had come all the way from Canada to play there – brought him out beer etc – very friendly. I know that a couple of courses in Michigan do so from time to time, usually in the spring. — David RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca

Response:

Depending on just how warm and how far south you want… southeast Washington has a lot of nice courses that you can play for about $15 to $25. (I think that’s about $500-$750 Canadian) It’s currently 50 degrees, and I’m going to get in a round as soon as it reaches 55 in a couple hours.

And… there are courses in Northwest Washington that take CDN$ at par all year long. Bob

Response:

Is anyone in Texas still taking the CDN $ at par ?

[snip] Don’t you love it when you get to answer your own posts See http://snowbirds.org/csanews/issues/44/32.html

Response:

Is anyone in Texas still taking the CDN $ at par ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you are a senior, you can play all of the golf you can stand ( during the weekdays) on decent courses for $25.00 to $35.00 including a cart in and around Houston TX. For accommodations, I’d try some of the newer "long stay" motel/apartments that seem to be rising everywhere here. They advertise rates that are attractive on a weekly basis for furnished apartments. I’ve never been inside of one, but some are in good locations. One name of a "long stay" place is Extended Stay America http://www.extendedstay.com . Weather here is usually in the 60’s during the short Winter. All of the conveniences and problems of American’s fourth largest city is a short drive away. Another location is Waterwood National in Huntsville TX. It is a Pete Dye course about 40 miles North of Houston. They have condos etc. for rent and a fine golf course to play. However, after playing golf, I don’t know what else there would be to do all day and night. It is lost in the piney woods. If you like fishing, it is located on a large lake; ( Lake Livingston). Hope this helps. — RichG – Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel

Response:

Is anyone in Texas still taking the CDN $ at par ?

Good question. Five years ago or so I recall one resort in San Antonio was, as well as a few places in Laughlin, Nevada. Lumpy.

Response:

Is anyone in Texas still taking the CDN $ at par ?

…for monopoly money….. I don’t think anyone in Texas would know what you were giving them if you gave them Canadian money. ;^) Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )

Response:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing…

Response:

You’d be hard pressed to find a place in this neck of the woods (Palmetto’s) that charge $60.00 in the winter. Jim

Response:

Check Jacksonville, Florida area. Some great public golf, without the high prices. And Jacksonville is not as touristy as Orlando, Miami, etc. I really enjoyed the area. Another area I liked was Ocala. Several good courses, also removed from Orlando and Miami. Jacksonville has much more to do, though, as far as entertainment and dining, etc. As for Alabama, check out Eric’s post on his mini-RSG outing.

Response:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel

Response:

Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing… fore ! Joel

Lots of courses here in Palm Coast, FL. Lots of Canadians come here. Nice in-town hotel has rates in the $60 a day range. Great climate during the winter – . Want details? Phone if you’d like. 800 226-9326. George Hibbard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Thats SPAM, George, and you know it. You deliberately give the poster *your* phone number, not the Tourist Bureau or a link such as http://www.floridanetlink.com/flagler.htm Don’t give us the innocent " I was only trying to help" bullshit either, because that won’t fly. All this does is prove once again that your only reason for your presence on this newsgroup is to SPAM for customers. — David RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca

Response:

Might do a search on Sebring Fl and Golf. Golf is less expensive inland away for the Beach. A number of places have great golf packages. Jim (Lives on a Golf Course in Sebring)

Response:

Might do a search on Sebring Fl and Golf. Golf is less expensive inland away for the Beach. A number of places have great golf packages. Jim (Lives on a Golf Course in Sebring) Was planning a three month winter golf vacation, but our Canadian dollar really sucks … Looking for some location not to expensive… If there is such a thing…

I played a round at PGA Village in Port St. Lucie, Florida. There are 4 courses there, 2 by Pete Dye and 2 by Tom and Jim Fazio. The summer rates were quite cheap (I was there in July) but the winter rates are, of course, higher. Check out the link below to see if it fits into your price range: http://www.golfpacpgavillage.com/PGAVILL/index.cfm.html/action/packag… packages.cfm/

Response:

Not Scoring

admin — Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

No he doesn’t turn in scores for a handicap. Neither will he play any games when there are 4 of us playing.

Why not? I play quite often with people who don’t have handicaps. I like golf, enjoy companionship, and appreciate extra pairs of eyes to see where my balls go. None of those require handicaps.

Response:

Does he turn in scores for a handicap? If he does, THEN I might see something wrong with it. A couple of people suggested this may be a problem, but I don’t get it. How is hitting going out on the golf course and hitting 80 or so shots with no intention of playing strictly by the rules or keeping score any different from hitting balls on the range? I think the purpose of the USGA’s insistence that all rounds be turned in is so that your handicap is based on the game you are playing when you are using it, either in competition, freindly games, or just your personal yardstick.

The USGA’s insistence to do so is predicated on the assumption that everyone who plays golf has the intention of keeping a handicap for the purpose of playing in some type of competition. The kinds of people I described will never do so. In fact, I’d guess that only a fraction (far less than half) of all people who play "public golf" ever turn in a score, and for that matter, probably don’t even know what the letters USGA stand for (if you forced them to answer, they might opine that it’s the government agency that rates the qualify of beef). If you are out there hacking a ball around with no intention of scoring I

can’t see where it’s Oh, it’s quite different. For one thing, you get to ride around in that fun little cart. For another, you get three people to talk to who are grouped with you. For another, you get to roll the ball in the hole, which for many of us, is the ultimate satisfaction of playing the game (it is, after all, the stated OBJECT of the game). None of those are available on the range. Plus, and perhaps most importantly, once you head out on to the golf course, you’re more or less out there for 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 hours, whereas on the range, once you’ve finished hitting your bucket of balls (which might take 20 minutes or 45 minutes, depending on what size bucket you purchased), you have to go back in and pay again to stay at it. Lots of differences. Randy

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? Different strokes for different folks. [get it ? _strokes_] Late to the party as usual David – see my reply to Kenny Stultz.

I see it as "great minds think alike." There’s room at the party ! — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Response:

you end up keeping score in your head without trying. I did it because people around me were telling me not to worry about score yet just to concentrate on my game. Looking at how well I’m doing (or not) will come later. Not bad advice. Felt good too. Made me feel better about my game and noticed a new attitude on course management. When I did look back at how many strokes I took it there was a big drop. Not4wood

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i use to do it, infact i still do sometimes. but when my golf improved i started to keep score in my head. most of the time i’d just remember if i was + or – (x number) par. One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson e: woodsienATbigfootDOTcom

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? Different strokes for different folks. [get it ? _strokes_]

When you have to explain them Dave…….well…..you know. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? Different strokes for different folks. [get it ? _strokes_] When you have to explain them Dave…….well…..you know.

When you have to explain…you must be posting in R.S.G. ;) — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Response:

The OP asked what to make of this phenomenon, almost suggesting there was something abnormal, perhaps even illegal, about not keeping score. Nope. Just a happy schmoo who likes to pay $50 to wander around on nicely mown lawns hitting $5.00 balls with $1000 worth of equipment, and not caring about how well or poorly he does it. Period.

I beg to differ. I haven’t kept score much in the last several months because I realized that due to circumstances my development had basically come to a halt. But I most certainly cared how well or poorly I played–I just didn’t record it. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

I’ve played with lots of people who don’t keep score. I’ve played quite a few rounds in my day where I didn’t keep score. I don’t keep score when I ride my bike, play catch with the football, throw a frisbee or swim. It’s just an excuse to be outside, get some fresh air and have some fun. Could be the same for your friend. I see nothing wrong with it. Does he turn in scores for a handicap? If he does, THEN I might see something wrong with it. Randy

Response:

Does he turn in scores for a handicap? If he does, THEN I might see something wrong with it.

A couple of people suggested this may be a problem, but I don’t get it. How is hitting going out on the golf course and hitting 80 or so shots with no intention of playing strictly by the rules or keeping score any different from hitting balls on the range? I think the purpose of the USGA’s insistence that all rounds be turned in is so that your handicap is based on the game you are playing when you are using it, either in competition, freindly games, or just your personal yardstick. If you are out there hacking a ball around with no intention of scoring I can’t see where it’s any different from hacking range balls. PS: I don’t do this all that often, but if I come out to play and discover that the greens are freshly sanded, 3 fairways are full of plugs from aeration, two holes are playing off temporary tees, and I really want to practice my long iron game so I’m going to deliverately hit 4 irons off all the tees, that to me isn’t a normal round of golf and shouldn’t be turned in for handicap, since it doesn’t reflect what I’d shoot in any normal competition. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

Well I guess he doesn’t belong to Kenny Stultz’s club:-) Crispin Roche

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? I’ve played with lots of people who don’t keep score. I’ve played quite a few rounds in my day where I didn’t keep score. I don’t keep score when I ride my bike, play catch with the football, throw a frisbee or swim. It’s just an excuse to be outside, get some fresh air and have some fun. Could be the same for your friend. I see nothing wrong with it. Does he turn in scores for a handicap? If he does, THEN I might see something wrong with it. Randy

No he doesn’t turn in scores for a handicap. Neither will he play any games when there are 4 of us playing. Brian

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

I make of it that he is enjoying the game in his own way.

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson

I knew a guy once that did that. He said when he kept score, it caused him stress. When he didn’t keep score, he was just out enjoying Mother Nature. It worked for him. Kenny — Kenny Stultz Troll and Spam Intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk

Response:

I’m a beginner, and I am concentrating on enjoying the swing of things. I haven’t kept score in 3 rounds. Not4wood

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? I make of it that he is enjoying the game in his own way.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson I knew a guy once that did that. He said when he kept score, it caused him stress. When he didn’t keep score, he was just out enjoying Mother Nature. It worked for him. Kenny — Kenny Stultz Troll and Spam Intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk

Playing golf w/o keeping score is like having a "hit" in tennis. You rally the ball back and forth, refining your strokes, getting exercise and perhaps working on some aspects of your game (other than serves, obviously). A lot of guys do this regularly…just rallying. They develop exceptional skill at keeping the ball in play. The OP asked what to make of this phenomenon, almost suggesting there was something abnormal, perhaps even illegal, about not keeping score. Nope. Just a happy schmoo who likes to pay $50 to wander around on nicely mown lawns hitting $5.00 balls with $1000 worth of equipment, and not caring about how well or poorly he does it. Period. — Doug Main

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

I know it’s diffferent in the USA because of your handicap requirements, but I (in the UK) never keep a score unless I’m playing in a competition.

Response:

i use to do it, infact i still do sometimes. but when my golf improved i started to keep score in my head. most of the time i’d just remember if i was + or – (x number) par. One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson

e: woodsienATbigfootDOTcom

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

He likes being out on the course and making golf shots and doesn’t really care what the numbers add up to. Maybe he’s a "type B" personality who can enjoy the game without the yardstick. I don’t keep score on every round either. Sometimes I know I’m not going to play strictly by the rules, the course is not playing to it’s rated specifications, or I want to practice something on the course that isn’t going to reflect my usual game. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – B. J. Wilkinson

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson I knew a guy once that did that. He said when he kept score, it caused him stress. When he didn’t keep score, he was just out enjoying Mother Nature. It worked for him. Kenny — Kenny Stultz Troll and Spam Intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk

Yes our buddy likes the excercise, likes working on his game. i was telling him about my experience in a couple of "big" tournaments and I said it wasn’t exactly fun while I was in the middle of the rounds, kind of like work. However, I can’t wait to do it again next year. For the most part scoring spoils the experience for him. Different strokes for different folks. Brian

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? I know it’s diffferent in the USA because of your handicap requirements, but I (in the UK) never keep a score unless I’m playing in a competition.

The USGA requires you to keep score only if you plan on keeping a handicap — it’s not a requirement. Everyone at my club does keep a handicap, but almost none of my golf-playing co-workers do. The fellow who sits across the hall from me won’t keep score if he’s having a bad day — there’s just no point in reinforcing the fact after each hole. :-) Doug "How do you compare yourself to other golfers, then?" "By height." — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that?

Different strokes for different folks. [get it ? _strokes_] — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? Different strokes for different folks. [get it ? _strokes_] — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Late to the party as usual David – see my reply to Kenny Stultz. Brian

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson

Is his name Ty Webb and does he give advice such as "be the ball"? Chris

Response:

One of the guys around here we play with does not keep score at golf. What do you make of that? B. J. Wilkinson

I played for about 3 years without keeping score…it was either that or quit the game. My sanity was, at the time, on thin ice (from golf). I’ve now learned to enjoy the game, the outdoors, and my fellow golfers/competitors. I now never complain about a bad shot or feel any anger or upset about this game of golf. For the grand prize pick which sentence is not true — Dave Jones RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=jonesd

Response:

What would you do with this rules/playing situation

admin — Mon, 07 Oct 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You could have let the group behind through and then go back and continue to play. In fact you should have let them through already when you started searching for your ball. /marek

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m assuming that he/they looked for his ball for 5 mins+ What I wrote stands – it is a lost ball. He could go an play 3 off the tee or is out of the hole. If he’d only looked for 2 mins then it’s a different story. Please read me earlier post. My reasoning builds on the fact that if he didn’t search for more than 5 minutes, the ball is not lost. But if he searched for less than 5 minutes and then his father hit the his ball, it was in fact found but not identified. And identification can take place after 5 minutes have elapsed, see decision xx. If however he searched for more than 5 minutes, you are quite correct, the ball is definitely lost. You cannot then declare a ball lost. If it’s found, it’s in play. I don’t know the rule #s off hand but thay are facts. Yes, I agree. /marek

Sorry Marek I can’t have read it properly!

Response:

In my original reply I had forgotten that this was a team match, that’s why I stated that Larry’s concession did not count. However Tom Fenton reminded me that it was a TEAM match, so I was wrong, Larry could concede, and that is exactly what he did: "So I take myself out of the hole." This is a concession and once offered cannot be withdrawn or refused. See Rule 2-4. Larry is out of the hole, as is his father. The other two players continue.

I see now that you are right. I thought that when playing fourball match, that the team plays stroke play between themselves and that the cant concede the hole until both players have don’t have the change of doing a good enough score. But reading Rule 30, I see now that the players play under match play rules, and a concession cannot be taken back as you correctly point out (Rule 2-4). /marek

Response:

Please read me earlier post. My reasoning builds on the fact that if he didn’t search for more than 5 minutes, the ball is not lost. But if he searched for less than 5 minutes and then his father hit the his ball, it was in fact found but not identified. And identification can take place after 5 minutes have elapsed, see decision xx. If however he searched for more than 5 minutes, you are quite correct, the ball is definitely lost. You cannot then declare a ball lost. If it’s found, it’s in play. I don’t know the rule #s off hand but thay are facts.

Yes, I agree. /marek

Response:

Right, it was four-ball. I guess the point of the question wasn’t a Rules interpretation. I know what is SUPPOSED to happen. I’m supposed to put a ball where my ball was when it was discover that someone else hit it, but in a practical sense, (since I would have been beaten over the head with a 4 iron if I went back and held up the group behind us), what would you do? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wrong!! I assume by "team best ball" Larry means ROG 30 "Four-Ball: A match in which two play their better ball against the better ball of two other players. " His father is toast, but his father’s partner is still alive. ROG 30-3/d.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Incorrect. He declared himself out of the hole ie ball was lost. You can’t change your mind because you then find or your dad’s played your ball. I disagree, but you can easily convince me if you can you tell me what Rule you base that upon. /marek

This is what Larry wrote in his original post: "Sunday, playing team best ball, 18th hole, match tied on the back. We all drive up and over this hill, (kinda a blind shot). Drive up there, my opponent (who happens to be my Dad) hits his shot. Other two players hit their shot, but I cannot find my ball. Should be right in the middle of the fairway. I’m pissed that I can’t find it. So I take myself out of the hole." In my original reply I had forgotten that this was a team match, that’s why I stated that Larry’s concession did not count. However Tom Fenton reminded me that it was a TEAM match, so I was wrong, Larry could concede, and that is exactly what he did: "So I take myself out of the hole." This is a concession and once offered cannot be withdrawn or refused. See Rule 2-4. Larry is out of the hole, as is his father. The other two players continue. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

Incorrect. He declared himself out of the hole ie ball was lost. You can’t change your mind because you then find or your dad’s played your ball. I disagree, but you can easily convince me if you can you tell me what Rule you base that upon.

I’m assuming that he/they looked for his ball for 5 mins+ What I wrote stands – it is a lost ball. He could go an play 3 off the tee or is out of the hole. If he’d only looked for 2 mins then it’s a different story. You cannot then declare a ball lost. If it’s found, it’s in play. I don’t know the rule #s off hand but thay are facts.

Response:

Incorrect. He declared himself out of the hole ie ball was lost. You can’t change your mind because you then find or your dad’s played your ball.

I disagree, but you can easily convince me if you can you tell me what Rule you base that upon. /marek

Response:

In match play playing the wrong ball is a loss of hole penalty. Your father lost the hole as soon as he played a stroke at your ball. Since the hole was already over, you could not have conceded. See Decision 2-4/9. Your only hope would’ve been if Sergio had come running up the 18th fairway. Then maybe you could’ve gotten a halve out of it.

…or the american team and all the spectators invade the green and the fairway before it’s your turn to putt. /marek

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m fumbling in the dark a bit here and may be totally wrong, but Decision 27/5.5 suggests that the identification of a ball can be done after the five minutes search has elapsed.

Incorrect. He declared himself out of the hole ie ball was lost. You can’t change your mind because you then find or your dad’s played your ball.

Response:

I’m fumbling in the dark a bit here and may be totally wrong, but Decision 27/5.5 suggests that the identification of a ball can be done after the five minutes search has elapsed.

To my knowledge there is nothing in the rules about "conceded his score". You don’t do that in stroke play. You can concede the hole or the match. It’s stroke play between the son and his father – then it’s match play between the teams. Or am I wrong here? The way I reason is that if not more than 5 minutes have elapsed from the time they *started* to search for it to the moment the son finds his ball after the father has played it, the situation is quite clear. The son can replace his ball and play it. I more than 5 minutes have elapsed, the situation is more difficult, but I argue that the ball was found *before* 5 minutes have elapsed but identified *after* 5 minutes have elapsed – and that is ok too! I do agree however that the father lost the hole the same moment he played the wrong ball. So it’s up to the son to produce a score on the hole. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The outcome of the hole will be determined by the 2 other players. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

The statement in your post "Your father lost the hole as soon as he played a stroke at your ball" is wrong. In a best ball match, he is DQed for the hole, but the hole isn’t over until the fat lady sings.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wrong!! I assume by "team best ball" Larry means ROG 30 "Four-Ball: A match in which two play their better ball against the better ball of two other players. " His father is toast, but his father’s partner is still alive. ROG 30-3/d. It depends on which player actually won the hole. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

Your only hope would’ve been if Sergio had come running up the 18th fairway. Then maybe you could’ve gotten a halve out of it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Decision 27/5.5 suggests that maybe player A can still see this as his ball in play, because he has not spent more than 5 minutes of searching for it, but identified it after 5 minutes, but that is perfectly ok. So what he needs to do is to drop the ball on a spot from where player B played it and continue playing it. My reasoning builds on the assumptions that the hole and match hasn’t been conceded at that point…in that case, it’s too late. And that he hasn’t put another ball in play. ??

Yes, correct. /marek

Response:

Decision 27/5.5 suggests that maybe player A can still see this as his ball in play, because he has not spent more than 5 minutes of searching for it, but identified it after 5 minutes, but that is perfectly ok. So what he needs to do is to drop the ball on a spot from where player B played it and continue playing it. My reasoning builds on the assumptions that the hole and match hasn’t been conceded at that point…in that case, it’s too late.

And that he hasn’t put another ball in play. ??

Response:

I’m fumbling in the dark a bit here and may be totally wrong, but Decision 27/5.5 suggests that the identification of a ball can be done after the five minutes search has elapsed.

Response:

Wrong!! I assume by "team best ball" Larry means ROG 30 "Four-Ball: A match in which two play their better ball against the better ball of two other players. " His father is toast, but his father’s partner is still alive. ROG 30-3/d.

It depends on which player actually won the hole. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sunday, playing team best ball, 18th hole, match tied on the back. We all drive up and over this hill, (kinda a blind shot). Drive up there, my opponent (who happens to be my Dad) hits his shot. Other two players hit their shot, but I cannot find my ball. Should be right in the middle of the fairway. I’m pissed that I can’t find it. So I take myself out of the hole. Come to find out my Dad hit my ball. Now, I know the rules say that I could go back and hit my shot, but the rules don’t always take into consideration public golf and the fact that you just can’t go back sometimes. The people behind us were already waiting while we searched for my ball. So what would you do? We ended up losing the hole. In match play playing the wrong ball is a loss of hole penalty. Your father lost the hole as soon as he played a stroke at your ball. Since the hole was already over, you could not have conceded. See Decision 2-4/9. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

I’m fumbling in the dark a bit here and may be totally wrong, but Decision 27/5.5 suggests that the identification of a ball can be done after the five minutes search has elapsed. http://www.usga.com/rules/rules_2002_03/decisions/dec27.html#27/5.5 I mean, in the following scenario: 1. Player A searches 2 minutes for his ball and stops searching. 2. Player B plays what he things is his ball but in fact is player A’s ball. 3. Player A identifies 10 minutes later that the ball played by player B is player A’s ball. Decision 27/5.5 suggests that maybe player A can still see this as his ball in play, because he has not spent more than 5 minutes of searching for it, but identified it after 5 minutes, but that is perfectly ok. So what he needs to do is to drop the ball on a spot from where player B played it and continue playing it. My reasoning builds on the assumptions that the hole and match hasn’t been conceded at that point…in that case, it’s too late. /marek

Response:

Sunday, playing team best ball, 18th hole, match tied on the back. We all drive up and over this hill, (kinda a blind shot). Drive up there, my opponent (who happens to be my Dad) hits his shot. Other two players hit their shot, but I cannot find my ball. Should be right in the middle of the fairway. I’m pissed that I can’t find it. So I take myself out of the hole. Come to find out my Dad hit my ball. Now, I know the rules say that I could go back and hit my shot, but the rules don’t always take into consideration public golf and the fact that you just can’t go back sometimes. The people behind us were already waiting while we searched for my ball. So what would you do? We ended up losing the hole.

In match play playing the wrong ball is a loss of hole penalty. Your father lost the hole as soon as he played a stroke at your ball. Since the hole was already over, you could not have conceded. See Decision 2-4/9. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld

Response:

You ‘took yourself out of the hole’ ie declared the ball lost. You can’t *do* anything. Your Dad has to play his original ball under penalty for hitting a wrong ball.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sunday, playing team best ball, 18th hole, match tied on the back. We all drive up and over this hill, (kinda a blind shot). Drive up there, my opponent (who happens to be my Dad) hits his shot. Other two players hit their shot, but I cannot find my ball. Should be right in the middle of the fairway. I’m pissed that I can’t find it. So I take myself out of the hole. Come to find out my Dad hit my ball. Now, I know the rules say that I could go back and hit my shot, but the rules don’t always take into consideration public golf and the fact that you just can’t go back sometimes. The people behind us were already waiting while we searched for my ball. So what would you do? We ended up losing the hole. You ‘took yourself out of the hole’ ie declared the ball lost. You can’t *do* anything. Your Dad has to play his original ball under penalty for hitting a wrong ball.

You did exactly what you should do. You lost the hole. In best ball, with one lost and one hitting the wrong ball, you suck it up and say "good match." — Doug Main Doug Main Media 780-434-8961

Response:

Golf along I95 (Jersey to Virginia)

admin — Mon, 26 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hello: My wife and I will be travelling back from Myrtle beach to New England and want to break up the trip by driving roughly half way, stay overnite and play golf. We don’t want to stray too far from I95 (20 miles max). I think we are talking northern Virginia to southern Jersey. I quiet wooded setting or somewhere with a view of the ocean would be great. No condo canyons, please. Email would be great as I am not on this group very often.! Thanks, Dave

Response:

Augustine Golf Club (www.augustinegolf.com), just outside Fredericksburg, VA. TimT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My wife and I will be travelling back from Myrtle beach to New England and want to break up the trip by driving roughly half way, stay overnite and play golf. We don’t want to stray too far from I95 (20 miles max). I think we are talking northern Virginia to southern Jersey. I quiet wooded setting or somewhere with a view of the ocean would be great. No condo canyons, please. Email would be great as I am not on this group very often.! Thanks, Dave

Response:

Golf on I 95 is characterized by lots of roll if you keep your tees shots down the middle. However, the water stops are a long ways apart, so keep plenty of water with you. Also, the non golf cart traffic is unusually heavy and it travels at a high rate of speed. One tip: Keep a stiff bristled brush handy to get those black stains off the ball. Asphalt ball marks are difficult for the average washer. sorry, as an ex NJ resident, couldn’t resist.

Response:

Just checking to make sure that my postings don’t show up credited to Oracle’s NNTP server anymore. That’s freakin’ annoying. TimT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Augustine Golf Club (www.augustinegolf.com), just outside Fredericksburg, VA. TimT Hello: My wife and I will be travelling back from Myrtle beach to New England and want to break up the trip by driving roughly half way, stay overnite and play golf. We don’t want to stray too far from I95 (20 miles max). I think we are talking northern Virginia to southern Jersey. I quiet wooded setting or somewhere with a view of the ocean would be great. No condo canyons, please. Email would be great as I am not on this group very often.! Thanks, Dave

Response:

Beechtree or Bulle Rock in northern Maryland. They are very close to each other, and both just a few miles off of 95. No condos on either, just good golf. I’m not aware of any courses off of 95 with an ocean view. 95 is pretty much landlocked. — John

Response:

Try out hartefeld national! http://www.hartefeld.com —- Golf Awards —- "Best New Public Course" 1996 Golf Digest "Best Public Course in PA" 1998, 1999, 2000 Golf Digest Rated fourth in top 50 courses for women to play – Golf Digest, Woman, 1998 "Top 10 you can play", Golf Magazine, 1996 One of the top 25 courses in North America for quality customer service and golf course maintenance – Landscape Management Magazine "Best Public Course in Delaware", Delaware Today 2000, 2002 PGA Merchandiser of the Year for 1998 —- Golf Quotes —- "You don’t find public golf like this" – Mike Bodney, PGA tour "Public courses don’t come much better than this." Joe Logan, Philadelphia Inquirer "Excellent food, great views, friendly service" – John Bull, food critic Philadelphia Inquirer "Best food at a public course in the region." Washington Golf Monthly "There’s no better way to end a round of golf than to drop in at the bucolic Chester County American restaurant for excellent food with a gorgeous view." Zagat Dining Survey, 1999

Response:

You need to check out ezlinks.com and play Royal New Kent or Stonehouse. Both are near Williamsburg. Check out http://www.stores.ebay.com/ezlinksteetimes or visit ezlinks.com and click on Virginia in the "Bidding" section. Scroll down and look for both courses. You’ll save about 50% off the regular price. I use this service all the time without a hitch! hj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My wife and I will be travelling back from Myrtle beach to New England and want to break up the trip by driving roughly half way, stay overnite and play golf. We don’t want to stray too far from I95 (20 miles max). I think we are talking northern Virginia to southern Jersey. I quiet wooded setting or somewhere with a view of the ocean would be great. No condo canyons, please. Email would be great as I am not on this group very often.! Thanks, Dave

Response:

Try out hartefeld national! http://www.hartefeld.com Golf Awards "Best Public Course in Delaware", Delaware Today 2000, 2002

Hartefeld is in Avondale, PA. How did it get best in Delaware?

Response:

Try out hartefeld national! http://www.hartefeld.com Golf Awards "Best Public Course in Delaware", Delaware Today 2000, 2002 Hartefeld is in Avondale, PA. How did it get best in Delaware?

Good question. It is a member club of the Delaware State Golf Assoc, although it is definitely a mile or two over the DE border into Pennsylvania. It got Lumpy.

Response:

Maybe Rob Martinelli is a member? RJ … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try out hartefeld national! http://www.hartefeld.com Golf Awards "Best Public Course in Delaware", Delaware Today 2000, 2002 Hartefeld is in Avondale, PA. How did it get best in Delaware?

Response:

If you don’t mind a nice little par 69, 5900 yard muni course, you could try Rock Manor CC which is just north of downtown Wilmington, and you can see the course from I-95. If you want a pretty course, not many of the courses are that pretty, as the drought has taken it’s toll on many. Good luck with your trip. RJ … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: My wife and I will be travelling back from Myrtle beach to New England and want to break up the trip by driving roughly half way, stay overnite and play golf. We don’t want to stray too far from I95 (20 miles max). I think we are talking northern Virginia to southern Jersey. I quiet wooded setting or somewhere with a view of the ocean would be great. No condo canyons, please. Email would be great as I am not on this group very often.! Thanks, Dave

Response:

hi guys, is there any golf course in Boston or nearby?

admin — Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

how long is need to travel if there is no course in Boston? thanks for answering

Response:

check http://www.golfcourse.com that should be able to help you out. Pork

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – how long is need to travel if there is no course in Boston? thanks for answering

Response:

Thanks! Thats an awesome site. check http://www.golfcourse.com that should be able to help you out. Pork

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – how long is need to travel if there is no course in Boston? thanks for answering

Response:

how long is need to travel if there is no course in Boston? thanks for answering

There isn’t a lot of public golf right in Boston but these are available: Franklin Park GC — http://www.cityofboston.gov/parks/ George Wright GC — a challenging Donald Ross course in good shape for a muni. Fresh Pond GC in Cambridge — a 9holer with sweet greens. — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Response:

Davis Love ?? what went down out there today ???

admin — Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Jerry Kelly mentioned much the same thing (not about DLIII being a brat . He stated that golf has changed and you’d have to roll with the punches. The tour will crack down somewhat, but you are right about joking with the hecklers. When someone told him the putt broke right I’d yell out "I see two balls left…. how about you?". *That* is the way to win the crowds’ heart. After that any other garbage would be sternly policed by the crowd themselves. Scott

Good advice, these hecklers are much like usenet trolls, getting mad gives them the attention they crave. JL

Response:

what exactly is the thrill of yelling U-DA-MAN a millisecond after a pro’s swing?

I still know people who do that. Scary…. It is amazing the way people imitate what they see on TV. I remember about 10-12 years ago when Paul Azinger ate a banana during his round for energy. Don’t you know that the very next day, my local course was selling fruit at the counter? They never did that before, but since Paul did it…. Luckily, the Sergio Regrip Dance hasn’t caught on yet, but something tells me its coming soon to a course nearby!

Response:

Reading mike’s sig line, me thinks we have one of the offenders amoung us! So Mike, what exactly is the thrill of yelling U-DA-MAN a millisecond after a pro’s swing? Steve in sunny Palm Harbor "Things behind you are of no consequence." -Enzo Ferrari

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your not playing for a hundred’s of thousands $$$, when some ashole yells FORE.Anyone that yells at the pro’s during a backswing or follow thru , should be kicked out and not allowed in any future events. No, I am not. And people aren’t yelling while he swings. He is upset that people heckle him or yell anything. He is acting like a baby. — Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Response:

Well, since the PGA tour is not a state actor the Supreme Court would not give a fig.

Prof. Irwin Corey couldn’t have said it better!

Response:

HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks Here is an idea: tell the pampered brat to grow up and be a man. Look, I don’t agree with heckling golfers. I’d never do it, nor would I recommend it, but the game has changed. The tour wants big crowds and mass appeal. They build stadium courses and try to pack in the fans. This is the stuff that they will have to deal with. The players need a thicker skin. Had Davis turned back and joked once or twice, those same hecklers would have been instant DL3 fans for life. It also would have loosened Davis up quite a bit. Davis needs to work on his people skills.

Response:

No, I am not. And people aren’t yelling while he swings. He is upset that people heckle him or yell anything. He is acting like a baby. — Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.

Response:

Your not playing for a hundred’s of thousands $$$, when some ashole yells FORE.Anyone that yells at the pro’s during a backswing or follow thru , should be kicked out and not allowed in any future events. No, I am not. And people aren’t yelling while he swings. He is upset that people heckle him or yell anything. He is acting like a baby.

You strike me as the kind of guy, when someone heckles you, that would just duck his head and slink away. Wrong!! ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.

Response:

OH CRAP!!!

Response:

DLIII isn’t my idea of the most charasmatic guy I’ve seen – but he’s also not a crass bore like most of the yokels who made their ill-informed, dumb outbursts. How anyone can condone dopes like this taking up space at any sporting event is beyond me. Its only the piss they drink (usually free, and usually to excess) that makes them believe that *anyone* is interested in what they have to say. And, most of them haven’t got a clue about the game in any event – and the disease is now spreading around the globe! — Regards Barrie Smart The Wizard of Oz!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I dont see DLIII or any other players complaining when they cash $700.000 checks. More money can only come from more fans. So its deal with uninformed fans or get less money. I’m sure we all know which the players would choose.

Response:

I dont see DLIII or any other players complaining when they cash $700.000 checks. More money can only come from more fans. So its deal with uninformed fans or get less money. I’m sure we all know which the players would choose.

I stopped going to sporting events in general because of obnoxious drunks. Get rid of them, and you get more fans. So it’s get rid of the obnoxious fans to get more money. I’m sure we all know which the players would choose! Rob PS..a lot of these turkeys are there at the invitation of sponsors…why not identify who sponsored say the obnoxious fan in particular? — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )

Response:

I heard that they found the guy and threw him out.

Does the U.S. Supreme Court know that the PGA Tour is restricting free speech?

Response:

I heard that they found the guy and threw him out. Does the U.S. Supreme Court know that the PGA Tour is restricting free

speech? Well, since the PGA tour is not a state actor the Supreme Court would not give a fig.

Response:

HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks

Here is an idea: tell the pampered brat to grow up and be a man. Look, I don’t agree with heckling golfers. I’d never do it, nor would I recommend it, but the game has changed. The tour wants big crowds and mass appeal. They build stadium courses and try to pack in the fans. This is the stuff that they will have to deal with. The players need a thicker skin. Had Davis turned back and joked once or twice, those same hecklers would have been instant DL3 fans for life. It also would have loosened Davis up quite a bit. Davis needs to work on his people skills. I play at a private club that has half the tees and greens (and several spots in between) exposed to the public streets. If I had a dollar for every time some bozo rode by and yelled "Fore!", I’d be a rich man. Horns honk, radios blast, people yell all kinds of crap… you deal with it. The average public golf course is hardly a library either, but golfers deal with it. Who hasn’t played an exposed muni? Around my way there is a place called Pennsauken CC and a busy, 4 lane county highway dissects the course. You’ll feel naked at times but, again, you deal with it. If Davis can’t handle a few drunks having some fun with him, then he needs to grow up. Speaking out makes him look like a baby and now it will get worse.

Response:

Mike . Your not playing for a hundred’s of thousands $$$, when some ashole yells FORE.Anyone that yells at the pro’s during a backswing or follow thru , should be kicked out and not allowed in any future events. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks Here is an idea: tell the pampered brat to grow up and be a man. Look, I don’t agree with heckling golfers. I’d never do it, nor would I recommend it, but the game has changed. The tour wants big crowds and mass appeal. They build stadium courses and try to pack in the fans. This is the stuff that they will have to deal with. The players need a thicker skin. Had Davis turned back and joked once or twice, those same hecklers would have been instant DL3 fans for life. It also would have loosened Davis up quite a bit. Davis needs to work on his people skills. I play at a private club that has half the tees and greens (and several spots in between) exposed to the public streets. If I had a dollar for every time some bozo rode by and yelled "Fore!", I’d be a rich man. Horns honk, radios blast, people yell all kinds of crap… you deal with it. The average public golf course is hardly a library either, but golfers deal with it. Who hasn’t played an exposed muni? Around my way there is a place called Pennsauken CC and a busy, 4 lane county highway dissects the course. You’ll feel naked at times but, again, you deal with it. If Davis can’t handle a few drunks having some fun with him, then he needs to grow up. Speaking out makes him look like a baby and now it will get worse.

Response:

Or inform the fans how to behave properly and kick them out if they don’t. — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html

Response:

HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks

Response:

Here is the story. http://sports.yahoo.com/pga/news/ap/20020707/ap-pga-westernopen-love….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks

Response:

HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks Here is the story.

http://sports.yahoo.com/pga/news/ap/20020707/ap-pga-westernopen-love…. I was at the Western Open today following the leaders. Even though I have never been a big fan of Davis Love, I agree with him about this. It was irritating to me and obviously to Davis when some idiot on the 14th hole yelled and said "It breaks left-to-right Davis!" He said some other stupid stuff too, but I can’t remember exactly what he said. I was on the 17th hole when Davis played it, but I was not close enough to hear or see what happened. On the other hand, Jerry Kelly interacted with and handled the galleries well. He had a lot of support though, since he is from nearby Wisconsin. Congrats to Jerry Kelly, he was a deserving champion! Dan L. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

HEARD vague report about fans heckling etc…..any ideas ? thanks

that much and I don`t blame him for not liking it. This is not I heard that they found the guy and threw him out. Good!!! Dan

Response:

For Golfers

admin — Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

A SIGN POSTED IN THE CLUB HOUSE AT A PUBLIC GOLF COURSE… 1. Back straight, knees bent, feet shoulder width apart. 2. Form a loose grip. 3. Keep your head down. 4. Avoid a quick back swing. 5. Stay out of the water. 6. Try not to hit anyone. 7. If you are taking too long, let others go ahead of you. 8. Don’t stand directly in front of others. 9. Quiet please…while others are preparing to go. 10. Don’t take extra strokes. Well done. Now flush the urinal, go outside, and tee off! Gwen — Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go; be what you want to be, because you have only one life and one chance to do all the things you want to do.

Response:

Ooooh, I have sent that to a few folks. LOL Harv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A SIGN POSTED IN THE CLUB HOUSE AT A PUBLIC GOLF COURSE… 1. Back straight, knees bent, feet shoulder width apart. 2. Form a loose grip. 3. Keep your head down. 4. Avoid a quick back swing. 5. Stay out of the water. 6. Try not to hit anyone. 7. If you are taking too long, let others go ahead of you. 8. Don’t stand directly in front of others. 9. Quiet please…while others are preparing to go. 10. Don’t take extra strokes. Well done. Now flush the urinal, go outside, and tee off! Gwen — Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go; be what you want to be, because you have only one life and one chance to do all the things you want to do.