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Baby Talk

admin — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m the same, I’ve never talked baby talk to a baby. I remember too well being a young child and having grown-ups talk to me that way, and since my parents talked to me properly, I was confused about the baby talk. — Marina, Frank and Nikki Email marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/frankiennikki

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you see the birdies outside?" to him. She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" I think we all know what you mean. Cats *are* like little kids! I don’t know whether I talk to cats as though they were babies, or if I talk to babies like they were cats. "Birdies" isn’t too bad. It’s a term that’s even used by professional golfers. Of course, mice have to become "mousies". This is an old clip that most people here have probably seen before, but it’s of me talking to Betty: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Takayuki9z/movie1.html I often ask Betty, "Would you like lappy time?" and "Would you like brushie-brush?" I must sound so retarded when I’m with kittypussums. :)

You are not alone. With Prissy (RB), who was my little "child" till she passed away last year, I used to ask her what kind of "foodie" she wanted or remark on how she was almost out of "wah-wah". I don’t do it as much with the guys I have now, somehow the fact that they’re so much bigger makes a difference plus they don’t "talk" like Prissy did. I *do* refer to Kona’s rear feet as his "Twinkies" when I’m holding him or showing him to other people because they’re the size of Twinkies. Then I started referring to his front paws as his "cupcakes" to keep things balanced. I occasionally talk to Sabastian about his "tuftie toes" cause he’s got tufts of fur that stick out between the toes of his rear feet.

Response:

If I ever tell the kids I said this or that, such as I told him not to do that, they invariably ask ‘and did he answer you mum’ or ‘and what did he say’ lol Jean.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you see the birdies outside?" to him. She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

yodeled: Guilty – I talk to the critters all the time, like they understand a single word I’m saying! I even sing to them. Remember "Mellow Yellow"? ("well they call him mellow yellow…") (Am I dating myself, only line I remember) – anyway, I substitute Yurtle Turtle for my little foster (the one that got bit by the dog….he’s doing very well! May have a possible real home!). You should hear my boyfriend talk to his dog, it’s downright scary. :) JoJo

Aw, that’s cute. I insert Stinky’s name into all kinds of songs. E.G., there’s an old Big Band song (even older than "Mellow Yellow"!) called "Daddy" and I sing that to Stinky all the time: "Stinky, I want a diamond ring, Cashmere everything, Hey! Stinky! You ought to get the best for me!" The utter futility of such a request is part of the fun. Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

(CajunPrincess) yodeled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you see the birdies outside?" to him. She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" I think we all know what you mean. Cats *are* like little kids! I don’t know whether I talk to cats as though they were babies, or if I talk to babies like they were cats. "Birdies" isn’t too bad. It’s a term that’s even used by professional golfers. Of course, mice have to become "mousies". This is an old clip that most people here have probably seen before, but it’s of me talking to Betty: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Takayuki9z/movie1.html I often ask Betty, "Would you like lappy time?" and "Would you like brushie-brush?" I must sound so retarded when I’m with kittypussums. :) You are not alone. With Prissy (RB), who was my little "child" till she passed away last year, I used to ask her what kind of "foodie" she wanted or remark on how she was almost out of "wah-wah". I don’t do it as much with the guys I have now, somehow the fact that they’re so much bigger makes a difference plus they don’t "talk" like Prissy did. I *do* refer to Kona’s rear feet as his "Twinkies" when I’m holding him or showing him to other people because they’re the size of Twinkies. Then I started referring to his front paws as his "cupcakes" to keep things balanced. I occasionally talk to Sabastian about his "tuftie toes" cause he’s got tufts of fur that stick out between the toes of his rear feet.

Oh gosh, I hear ya. I usually only throw in the odd word of "special cat interest"– e.g. "birdies." But it’s always open season on Stinky’s "little pinky nosie." Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

Funny, I don’t talk to children/babies like that. I’m a firm believer children learn how to speak by the way you talk to them. But animals are a different story. You can cuss, fuss, cuddle, coo and coddle them all day long with silly words and it matters not one whit because they are never going to talk back to you beyond a meow or a woof or a chirp I’m the same, I’ve never talked baby talk to a baby. I remember too well being a young child and having grown-ups talk to me that way, and since my parents talked to me properly, I was confused about the baby talk.

Yep, and it seems a bit condescending, too.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, yes. When I’m working at kitchen counter, Maluce jumps up onto sink rim and bellows for me to turn on water "fast drip"speed……then I have to give her a full body petdown and coax, "Get drinkie now" before she turns her head sideways and starts lapping the drip up. My little boy Sumo likes to drink from the tap, but though I’ve seen him turn his head sideways to drink, his preferred method is to stick his forehead under the stream, and lap it up as it runs down his face. Part of his reasoning (if you can call it that) is probably that he can then run to Lynda who will dry his face while saying, "Who is this boy with the wet face? Oh, my little man has such a wet face … "

Now that’s using your head. Bob — Somewhere in Texas a village is missing it’s idiot. ANYONE but Bush in 2004!

Response:

I don’t do it as much with the guys I have now, somehow the fact that they’re so much bigger makes a difference plus they don’t "talk" like Prissy did. I *do* refer to Kona’s rear feet as his "Twinkies" when I’m holding him or showing him to other people because they’re the size of Twinkies. Then I started referring to his front paws as his "cupcakes" to keep things balanced. I occasionally talk to Sabastian about his "tuftie toes" cause he’s got tufts of fur that stick out between the toes of his rear feet.

Oh yes! Cat feet have to get little baby names. When I’m clipping Betty’s claws, it goes something like, "Give me your other pawsies. See, sharp clawsies!"

Response:

Too funny – remember the "I get knocked down I get up again" song by Chumbawamba? Well Stumbles has neuro problems and falls down, but gets up – I figured it was his theme song. Oh he hates it when I sing that to him and dance with him – hey crazy hoomin put me down, I might have problems but I’m not nuts! :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Guilty – I talk to the critters all the time, like they understand a single word I’m saying! I even sing to them. Remember "Mellow Yellow"? ("well they call him mellow yellow…") (Am I dating myself, only line I remember) – anyway, I substitute Yurtle Turtle for my little foster (the one that got bit by the dog….he’s doing very well! May have a possible real home!). You should hear my boyfriend talk to his dog, it’s downright scary. :) JoJo Aw, that’s cute. I insert Stinky’s name into all kinds of songs. E.G., there’s an old Big Band song (even older than "Mellow Yellow"!) called "Daddy" and I sing that to Stinky all the time: "Stinky, I want a diamond ring, Cashmere everything, Hey! Stinky! You ought to get the best for me!" The utter futility of such a request is part of the fun. Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

I am so used to talking baby talk to my cats that i have used baby words to my clients. To wit: after a shower, brushing loose hair off, "Oh, you are shedding! Let Mommy brush the loose fur off!" or…to a quadriplegic, "do you want your blankie?" To another client I talk about "poopie" instead of BM. — CATherine

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oh, yes. When I’m working at kitchen counter, Maluce jumps up onto sink rim and bellows for me to turn on water "fast drip"speed……then I have to give her a full body petdown and coax, "Get drinkie now" before she turns her head sideways and starts lapping the drip up. My little boy Sumo likes to drink from the tap, but though I’ve seen him turn his head sideways to drink, his preferred method is to stick his forehead under the stream, and lap it up as it runs down his face. Part of his reasoning (if you can call it that) is probably that he can then run to Lynda who will dry his face while saying, "Who is this boy with the wet face? Oh, my little man has such a wet face … "

There are apparently quite a few cats that like to drink by repeatedly dipping their foot in the water, then licking their foot. I have had a couple of them. This behavior has always seemed strange to me, given the way cats react if they get wet involuntarily. —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use

Response:

heh, yep, everyone talks to our cat like its a baby. The fact that this is our office kitty doesn’t come into it. I’ve seen clients come up and talk to him He’s also supremem master of the ol telecatisis powers. New guy was sitting in his chair, said "Why does this cat come in here?" then picked him up, put him on his lap and started stroking him! "Gee, let me think…"

Response:

With me it’s the other way round, if I’m holding a baby I talk to it as if it were a cat. Does the ickle baby want his tummy tickled? — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy, Milo & Bagheera) A house is not a home, without a cat.

Response:

yodeled: I talk to me pets the way I would have talked to my kids except it would have scared them for life. I get to use the full range of "pet" names with them that the kids would never have tolerated. And you can be silly or rude or profane or what ever suits you just as long as you are talking to them. Here is Rosie Butts now looking for her human teething ring. Jo

My cousin refers to her little dog as "the snooze alarm on my biological clock." Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

Guilty – I talk to the critters all the time, like they understand a single word I’m saying! I even sing to them. Remember "Mellow Yellow"? ("well they call him mellow yellow…") (Am I dating myself, only line I remember) – anyway, I substitute Yurtle Turtle for my little foster (the one that got bit by the dog….he’s doing very well! May have a possible real home!). You should hear my boyfriend talk to his dog, it’s downright scary. :) JoJo

Response:

I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you see the birdies outside?" to him. She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" Theresa alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

Talk to the cats all the time. When sounds of a skirmish nearby (short howls, growling) reach my ears, I sternly yell, "Why are we fighting?"……they then scatter. It’s always BT Rowdy’s fault; the girls don’t ever start anything. It’s really funny to watch; he sidles up to them w/that challenging glare (hard to do if you’re like blind!) and whacks out w/his clawless paw, hard. They either turn tail or if cornered rake his nose leather w/a fully armed paw. Rowdy never learns, but he knows from my voice when to run.

: : : I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, : sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I : talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we : were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" : : She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you : see the birdies outside?" to him. : She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" : : : Theresa : alt.tv.frasier FAQ: http://www.im-listening.net/FAQ/ : : Single-mindedness is all very well in cows or baboons; in an animal : claiming to belong to the same species as Shakespeare it is simply disgraceful. : (Aldous Huxley)

Response:

Guilty. I try not to, but it just happens. Karen

Response:

I think we all know what you mean. Cats *are* like little kids! I don’t know whether I talk to cats as though they were babies, or if I talk to babies like they were cats. "Birdies" isn’t too bad. It’s a term that’s even used by professional golfers. Of course, mice have to become "mousies". This is an old clip that most people here have probably seen before, but it’s of me talking to Betty: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Takayuki9z/movie1.html I often ask Betty, "Would you like lappy time?" and "Would you like brushie-brush?" I must sound so retarded when I’m with kittypussums. :)

Response:

I talk to me pets the way I would have talked to my kids except it would have scared them for life. I get to use the full range of "pet" names with them that the kids would never have tolerated. And you can be silly or rude or profane or what ever suits you just as long as you are talking to them. Here is Rosie Butts now looking for her human teething ring. Jo

Response:

Oh, yes. When I’m working at kitchen counter, Maluce jumps up onto sink rim and bellows for me to turn on water "fast drip"speed……then I have to give her a full body petdown and coax, "Get drinkie now" before she turns her head sideways and starts lapping the drip up. They all also know the popular phrase, "want more food?"…….

: : I wonder how many of us talk some kind of baby talk to our cats, : sometimes even without necessarily realizing it. My mother says I : talk to Stinky the same way she talked to me and my brother when we : were toddlers. "What’s for breakfast today? Why don’t we go see?" : : She pointed it out to me when she heard me say "birdies" as in "Do you : see the birdies outside?" to him. : She said, ""Birdies’?? What the hell is the matter with you?" : : I think we all know what you mean. Cats *are* like little kids! I : don’t know whether I talk to cats as though they were babies, or if I : talk to babies like they were cats. : : "Birdies" isn’t too bad. It’s a term that’s even used by professional : golfers. Of course, mice have to become "mousies". : : This is an old clip that most people here have probably seen before, : but it’s of me talking to Betty: : : http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Takayuki9z/movie1.html : : I often ask Betty, "Would you like lappy time?" and "Would you like : brushie-brush?" I must sound so retarded when I’m with kittypussums. : :) :

Response:

Guilty, also. Speaking of mothers, mine was over here yesterday and we went to a craft show. When we were leaving, she shut off the TV and I told her to leave it on, for the cats. lol She gave me the funniest look when I explained it was for noise so they’d think I was still around somewhere, maybe outside working in the yard. When we got back, the TV had been MUTED. Probably Shamrock. — Cheryl

Response:

DQ'ing Roe and Parnevik

admin — Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Both Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik were guilty of claiming, by mistake, that they took fewer shots on a hole than they actually took. Now do you really think this a stupid rule?

IMHO, I think they did not claim, if by mistake, to have taken fewer strokes on a hole. They signed correct score cards…they just got the names wrong…not the scores. I think that Mark Roe claimed he was Jesper and Jesper claimed he was Mark Roe. Having the names wrong on the card…not the scores…is not a crime worthy of DQ….thus it is a stupid interpretation of the rule.

Response:

It’s idiotic to disqualify these guys. Are we trying to identify the greatest golfers in the world or the best people at counting and adding? How many other sports expect the competitors to keep score at the professional level?

Response:

They both signed incorrect scorecards

If I understand this right, they each signed their names to the other’s scorecard, but that scorecard had their scores. If that’s true, doesn’t it mean they haven’t really signed their scorecard at all, and shouldn’t they be given a chance to? On the other hand, if they signed the scorecard with their name on it, but it had the wrong scores, I’d understand that to be a DQ’able offense. –Mat Twassel

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rules are rules. And, stupid rules are stupid rules. True stupid rules are stupid rules but in the case of Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik the actual rule which was broken is a very good rule. Crispin Roche That’s your opinion. I’ve already heard a number of people say it’s a stupid rule, including Ian Baker-Finch. The fact that there’s even a thread about the rule is pretty good proof that the rule is at least questionable. A good rule wouldn’t even be questioned. Well in my opinion there seems to be a lot of stupid commentators at the moment and the fact that a thread questioning "the rule" just show, IMO, that there are a number of gullible, or just plain stupid, posters. And before you get hot under the collar because I’ve just called you stupid I suggest that you take a few seconds to consider just which rule, and section, we are talking about. And if you cannot be bothered to do that I’ll give you a clue its Rule 6. Both Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik were guilty of claiming, by mistake, that they took fewer shots on a hole than they actually took. Now do you really think this a stupid rule? Crispin Roche Yes, because they simply forgot to exchange cards, and the recorders didn’t notice their mistake. They obviously weren’t trying to cheat. AND, THE RECORDERS DID notice Phillip Price’s and Stuart Appleby’s mistake… "In a bizarre twist of fate that Roe will take no pleasure in whatsoever, almost the same thing happened to Phillip Price and Australian Stuart Appleby. The only difference was that the recorders spotted the mistake before both players left the scoring hut." So, basically, recorders are influencing the outcomes of tournaments, instead of the players. That’s stupid. Stop crying you little faggot. Weren’t you the pussy who said you relatives or friends on the rules committee. Have them change the rules, tough guy.

Don’t worry, I already called my brother. Thanks for reminding me though. It’s virtually a done deal.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rules are rules. And, stupid rules are stupid rules. True stupid rules are stupid rules but in the case of Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik the actual rule which was broken is a very good rule. Crispin Roche That’s your opinion. I’ve already heard a number of people say it’s a stupid rule, including Ian Baker-Finch. The fact that there’s even a thread about the rule is pretty good proof that the rule is at least questionable. A good rule wouldn’t even be questioned. Well in my opinion there seems to be a lot of stupid commentators at the moment and the fact that a thread questioning "the rule" just show, IMO, that there are a number of gullible, or just plain stupid, posters. And before you get hot under the collar because I’ve just called you stupid I suggest that you take a few seconds to consider just which rule, and section, we are talking about. And if you cannot be bothered to do that I’ll give you a clue its Rule 6. Both Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik were guilty of claiming, by mistake, that they took fewer shots on a hole than they actually took. Now do you really think this a stupid rule? Crispin Roche Yes, because they simply forgot to exchange cards, and the recorders didn’t notice their mistake. They obviously weren’t trying to cheat. AND, THE RECORDERS DID notice Phillip Price’s and Stuart Appleby’s mistake… "In a bizarre twist of fate that Roe will take no pleasure in whatsoever, almost the same thing happened to Phillip Price and Australian Stuart Appleby. The only difference was that the recorders spotted the mistake before both players left the scoring hut." So, basically, recorders are influencing the outcomes of tournaments, instead of the players. That’s stupid.

Stop crying you little faggot. Weren’t you the pussy who said you relatives or friends on the rules committee. Have them change the rules, tough guy.

Response:

Yes, because they simply forgot to exchange cards, and the recorders didn’t notice their mistake. They obviously weren’t trying to cheat. AND, THE RECORDERS DID notice Phillip Price’s and Stuart Appleby’s mistake… "In a bizarre twist of fate that Roe will take no pleasure in whatsoever, almost the same thing happened to Phillip Price and Australian Stuart Appleby. The only difference was that the recorders spotted the mistake before both players left the scoring hut." So, basically, recorders are influencing the outcomes of tournaments, instead of the players. That’s stupid.

Response:

Crispin Roche writes: Yes the cards had the players names on them but Mark Roe had Mark Roe’s card but he thought he was marking Jesper Parnevik’s card and so

Are the players required to exchange cards at the start of round? Or is it only a custom? Does this practice vary by tournament? If playing in groups of three, how is it decided who marks which card? If the players always exchange cards, it’s rather surprising that they failed to do so here. –Mat Twassel

Response:

The responsibility is on the player(s). It is their sole responsibility to make sure that everything is within the rules as they are stated. Ridiculous or not, rules are rules. They both signed incorrect scorecards and were DQ’ed. Same as any other tournament would or should do. — Bryan D. Greer "If you watch a game, it’s fun. If you play it, it’s recreation. If you work at it, it’s golf."…Bob Hope

I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf. When your own Mr. Dawson acknowledges some culpability on the part of the

R&A for the scorecard mixup of Messrs. Roe and Parnevik, it becomes quite clear that the only fair thing to do is reinstate them. Do not tarnish the R&A by standing on this ill-advised disqualification.

It was also your failure, and you can still do right by them and yourselves. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you.

Response:

Well in my opinion there seems to be a lot of stupid commentators at the moment and the fact that a thread questioning "the rule" just show, IMO, that there are a number of gullible, or just plain stupid, posters. And before you get hot under the collar because I’ve just called you stupid I suggest that you take a few seconds to consider just which rule, and section, we are talking about. And if you cannot be bothered to do that I’ll give you a clue its Rule 6. Both Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik were guilty of claiming, by mistake, that they took fewer shots on a hole than they actually took. Now do you really think this a stupid rule? Crispin Roche

Response:

Too bad. The rule was in place. If it were so stupid, why was it still in the rule books. The only thing stupid about this situation is all the crybabies bitching about it. Get a life you dorks.

Response:

No, the names for each score card are clearly printed across the top, and the scores are associated with those names, not the signatures. The only problem is that the signatures went on the opposite cards.

Providing that both the player and the marker’s signatures appear on the card it does not matter if they are signed in the wrong place (D6-6b/1. There is some culpability on the part on the Committee if the starter handed the wrong cards to each player….but I do not believe that is the case. After the round the Committee’s only responsibility under the Rules is to total the scores recorded on the card (Rule 33-5)….. Professional golfers should be required to recognise their own name! cheers david

Response:

I agree that it was very disappointing that the R&A’s procedures were inadequate on this occasion, especially considering the famous Padraig Harrington signing error, but I cannot see how anything can be done. It would be saying the rules are the rules except when there is a big enough fuss made and then we will conveniently ignore them and that way leads to anarchy.

No, it would be as if a player asked an official for a ruling on the course, and the official gave him the incorrect ruling. Then who is to blame? Would we then say the rules are the rules except when a player gets an incorrect ruling?

Response:

Rules are rules. And, stupid rules are stupid rules. True stupid rules are stupid rules but in the case of Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik the actual rule which was broken is a very good rule. Crispin Roche

That’s your opinion. I’ve already heard a number of people say it’s a stupid rule, including Ian Baker-Finch. The fact that there’s even a thread about the rule is pretty good proof that the rule is at least questionable. A good rule wouldn’t even be questioned.

Response:

Yes the cards had the players names on them but Mark Roe had Mark Roe’s card but he thought he was marking Jesper Parnevik’s card and so under player’s score he put Jesper’s hole by hole score, likewise Jesper Parnevik. Unfortunately for Mark Roe, Jesper Parnevik took 4 on the 4th and Mark Roe a 5 but Mark Roe marked down on his card a 4, i.e. one less than he actually took. When the card was signed he agreed that he had taken 4. Crispin Roche

Response:

I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf. Sorry Peter, but both Roe and Parnevik in effect signed for each others score. And unfortunately it there was at least one hole in each card where this resulted in the players attesting that they took fewer shots than they actually did and that is a DQ in any competition.

Response:

The committee can waive a DQ penalty, if they see fit. I’m sure they will review this one, and I hope they make an exception. -J

Response:

Rules are rules.

And, stupid rules are stupid rules.

Response:

Rules are rules. And, stupid rules are stupid rules.

Changing or ignoring stupid rules is not appropiate on the eve of the final for a major championship, particularly when the championship is the British Open and the person who would benefit is English.

Response:

Rules are rules. And, stupid rules are stupid rules.

True stupid rules are stupid rules but in the case of Mark Roe and Jesper Parnevik the actual rule which was broken is a very good rule. Crispin Roche

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf. Sorry Peter, but both Roe and Parnevik in effect signed for each others score. And unfortunately it there was at least one hole in each card where this resulted in the players attesting that they took fewer shots than they actually did and that is a DQ in any competition. I wonder how Roe would have felt if Parnevik hadn’t birdied the 4th hole because I think that would have meant that Roe’s "score" would have stood and instead of coming in with a 4 under 67 he would have in effect signed for a 11 over 82! Crispin Roche Crispin, I understand your PoV. However, the mitigating circumstance is, in my view, that the R&A folks who looked the cards over didn’t catch the honest blunder, either, and Peter Dawson has acknowledged some wrongdoing on their part as well. That’s what, for me, militates for reinstatement. They were, in effect, validated in their mistake by the folks who are supposed to help them, as they did others, not make such mistakes. Had they just turned them in without any official scrutiny before signing, I’d not have a protest. Mr. Dawson’s phrase, "blame but not responsibility" is doubletalk, I contend, and fudging of a Clintonesque nature. Yes, rules are rules. And some understanding and judgment are valuable assets. The R&A was complicit in this, and needs to make it right, I say.

Response:

Crispin, I understand your PoV. However, the mitigating circumstance is, in my view, that the R&A folks who looked the cards over didn’t catch the honest blunder, either, and Peter Dawson has acknowledged some wrongdoing on their part as well. That’s what, for me, militates for reinstatement. They were, in effect, validated in their mistake by the folks who are supposed to help them, as they did others, not make such mistakes. Had they just turned them in without any official scrutiny before signing, I’d not have a protest. Mr. Dawson’s phrase, "blame but not responsibility" is doubletalk, I contend, and fudging of a Clintonesque nature. Yes, rules are rules. And some understanding and judgment are valuable assets. The R&A was complicit in this, and needs to make it right, I say. Peter

Response:

I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf.

Sorry Peter, but both Roe and Parnevik in effect signed for each others score. And unfortunately it there was at least one hole in each card where this resulted in the players attesting that they took fewer shots than they actually did and that is a DQ in any competition. I wonder how Roe would have felt if Parnevik hadn’t birdied the 4th hole because I think that would have meant that Roe’s "score" would have stood and instead of coming in with a 4 under 67 he would have in effect signed for a 11 over 82! Crispin Roche

Response:

Rules are rules. I hope they don’t change the ruling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf. When your own Mr. Dawson acknowledges some culpability on the part of the R&A for the scorecard mixup of Messrs. Roe and Parnevik, it becomes quite clear that the only fair thing to do is reinstate them. Do not tarnish the R&A by standing on this ill-advised disqualification. It was also your failure, and you can still do right by them and yourselves. Thank you.

Response:

I have just sent the following off to the R & A (www.randa.org), and I urge others to do likewise. The disqualification is a travesty, and a blot on the R&A and on golf. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -When your own Mr. Dawson acknowledges some culpability on the part of the R&A for the scorecard mixup of Messrs. Roe and Parnevik, it becomes quite clear that the only fair thing to do is reinstate them. Do not tarnish the R&A by standing on this ill-advised disqualification. It was also your failure, and you can still do right by them and yourselves. Thank you.

Response:

What did pros do before nationwide/buy.com tour?

admin — Thu, 10 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

"Pain Steward" ?!?! I think your spell-checker has run amok! spell-checker, don’t need no stinking spell-checker So you’re saying that you meant to spell Payne Stewart’s name that way? I just assumed your spell-checker picks out similar words that it recognized . . .

I assumed that too, changing names to words. Before I got my current newsreader I have carelessly allowed such "corrections". News Rover’s spell checker changes unrecognized words to red. This makes it more obvious to me whether I should run the spell checker on the whole message, on selected text, or simply correct my misspellings by hand. It won’t automatically find words for Payne and Stewart. Hmmm, it recognized these, I must have added them in the past.

Response:

Honestly, before the buy.com/Nationwide Tours started up, what would non-exempt pros do, at least, stateside? I know they had the TPS tour thing in the mid 80s, and I’m sure many pros would play in Europe, but what "minor league golf" options were available in the States in the 70s and 80s?

Well, there was the Southern Tour, or something like that, in the South, and I played behind Joe Campbell’s group in some tournament or another back about ‘60. He won maybe $200 dollars in the "pro" flight, and I finished way back in the amateur section. Anyhow, there were tournaments at regional levels that pros would travel to. Everybody wasn’t trying or expecting to be a millionaire playing golf. It was a way to avoid having to work. As far as the regular tour goes, the "exempt" thing is pretty recent, by my reckoning. Had Viet Nam not got in my way, I had every intention of becoming a "rabbit", a "dew sweeper", on the tour. These were players who had not qualified to play in the week’s event, by way of winning an event, finishing high enough in the previous year’s money list, finishing in the top x in the previous week’s tournament, or an invite. They followed the tour, playing on Monday, to qualify for the week’s event. You wannah play? Plonk down your $200 and dollars and tee it up. Shoot a good score and you have Thursday and Friday to try to make some money. You could still do that, but it’d cost you a fortune, I imagine. Rabbits used to drive from place to place, but that just wouldn’t do, these days. I think all that’s changed is that there are more ways to become exempt than before, and richer ways to find it to the big time. Before Arnold Palmer, there weren’t many rich golfers — at least not professional ones. On the other hand, there aren’t that many rich professional golfers, still, it’s just become extreme in the separation between the top and the bottom, like the rest of society. (Professional golf is "Argentinized". :^) How come some old golfers have some "Second Tour" or "Mini" (Like, The Mini Byron Nelson Classic) events listed? Is this kinda like a minor league? I’ll have some examples soon.

Sounds right. There was a "mini" tour that I think started in the ’70s, that was a collection of the older regional tournaments and a few new ones. "He played on the mini-tour." The mini-tour got some umph when Hogan backed it and renamed it the Hogan Tour, if memory serves.

Response:

"Pain Steward" ?!?! I think your spell-checker has run amok! spell-checker, don’t need no stinking spell-checker

So you’re saying that you meant to spell Payne Stewart’s name that way? I just assumed your spell-checker picks out similar words that it recognized . . . Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

The "AAA" tour in the US was the Nike Tour before buy.com and Hogan Tour before that. There is/was the Canadian Tour (Triplett, Stricker, Begay for example.) and a few smaller tours in the US South. Many players worked their way up playing in Japan. Lehman and Beem to name only 2. Pain Steward use to play on the Austro-Asian tour, and I believe Bob May on the Japannese tour. There was also the Golden Bear tour in California and Sunshine tour in Florida.

"Pain Steward" ?!?! I think your spell-checker has run amok! Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

The "AAA" tour in the US was the Nike Tour before buy.com and Hogan Tour before that. There is/was the Canadian Tour (Triplett, Stricker, Begay for example.) and a few smaller tours in the US South. Many players worked their way up playing in Japan. Lehman and Beem to name only 2. — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

I think most states have their own mini tours to this day. Not sure you could earn a living doing so, however.

Response:

My take on Annika

admin — Fri, 23 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

That was the theory behind letting the US pros in the Olympics in Basketball. After a few years of total ass-wiping and taking the foreigners to school, they apparently got their education sunk in real well and the some of the games started getting really close the next time around in the Olympics; and then very close the 3rd time around in the Olympics — and then finally in the last year or so in some world championship tourney or another, the US team actually got beat. If you seed the LPGA with a few (male) ringers, you can whomp-ass-train the women into a full state of rabidity, just as well in due time, in the very same way. Eventually, after a few years of getting their asses kicked, they’ll gradually learn how to let their inner bitch out to play.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That was the theory behind letting the US pros in the Olympics in Basketball. After a few years of total ass-wiping and taking the foreigners to school, they apparently got their education sunk in real well and the some of the games started getting really close the next time around in the Olympics; and then very close the 3rd time around in the Olympics — and then finally in the last year or so in some world championship tourney or another, the US team actually got beat. If you seed the LPGA with a few (male) ringers, you can whomp-ass-train the women into a full state of rabidity, just as well in due time, in the very same way. Eventually, after a few years of getting their asses kicked, they’ll gradually learn how to let their inner bitch out to play.

hey, I’m all for it but judging by Karrie Webb’s (non) reaction to Annika’s pumping iron and competition ethic, I still have my doubts that the LPGA’ers have any conception as to how to respond to even Annika’s challenge, much less to a challenge from the male Ams and elder statesman. How many players compete in the LPGA tour school compared to the numbers of men who compete in mini-tours and the PGA tour? Do the ladies even have mini-tours or do they just go straight to the big tour? I’ve never heard of any of the women players emerging from the "bush" leagues (tourneys other than the LPGA LOL). In contrast, legends like Vijay and Lehman had to spend YEARS in the bush leagues before they "made" it. Mac O’Grady flunked out of tour school multiple times; heck does the LPGA tour even have any talented cranks like a Mac O’Grady? someone who was self-taught and can play scratch left handed or right handed: … I for one would be interested as to how the left handed Mac would do on the LPGA tour. now that would be interesting and I’m sure the fur would really fly. in contrast to classy Annika at the Colonial, you could have Jerry Springer hosting the Danskin Classic: replete with a cast of Hooter’s tour cast offs living in the back of their vans to try and take a crack at some of Annika’s easy money. heck in tennis I know a male "Am" who had a sister who "dabbled" in tennis, she was a fair to middling no. 5 singles player at Rollins College in Fla. who didn’t even work hard at the game. she got a WTA tour point in the first Future’s tour event she played in; while many male players of significantly greater athletic and tennis talent than her, with considerably more competition experience as well, never even got a single ATP computer point …

Response:

there’s only one problem with your theory; golf isn’t tennis or basketball where a substantial aspect of your improvement is determined by playing against better(playing) competition. I can go out and practice my golf game as a single on just about any course; the course is the PRIMARY competition for the most part … if the ladies are forced to play against the course as well as Perks or the Hooters guys, their "inner bitch" might be taken out of its comfort zone. you could argue that the male players development will be stunted by being forced to play their competition rounds on inferior LPGA tracks but you’d be wrong: they could still play all their practice rounds from the tips at their favourite high slope and course rating track(s) and still see the effect of playing the actual competition on "duck soup" courses. That’s exactly what the Williams sisters do; they get all their competition by playing themselves and male players (they’re probably not good enough to challenge any of the top 350 in the world though). what about my other points though: give the Hooter’s guys a shot at Annika’s "cash cow" and you’d see a massive increase in the number and quality of the MALE competition. That’s part of the reason I give Vijay and his work ethic more respect than Annika and hers. Vijay REALLY paid his dues in the golfing backwaters to get to where he is, a LOT of males want to be PRO golfers; if you look at the women’s tours in golf and tennis you see a few Annika’s, William’s sisters, Steffi Graf’s, and Martina Navratilova’s but then you see a LOT of REALLY high paid "athletes" who just aren’t willing to pay the price that a male player has to to get to the big show or to stay there: Martina Hingis, Anna Kournikova, Laura Davies, Monica Seles, etc. are all multi-millionaire women athletes who don’t even have a thimbleful of the stuff that Mike Weir and Vijay are made of. Seles spent two years away from her tour due to unfortunate circumstances and her first tournament back she got to the finals of a major while playing at 20 lbs. above her best playing weight. she never again put in the type of work necessary to contend in the majors yet she was still content to cash her fat cheques beating up on the less talented and not too hard working members of the rest of the ladies tour. Agassi spent a few MONTHS away from the men’s tour and the next thing you knew he was fighting for his ATP tour life: forced to play his way back up through the satellite ranks … For a comparison look at the difference between the careers of Laura Davies and John Daly. Laura can get by with just her talent: she wins majors and contends whenever she wants to without ever practicing; Daly who has considerably more talent (consider Daly’s putting, wedge game, etc.). He has never been able to sustain his career for any length of time "just on talent" alone. He set up a practice facility in AZ just to "get it all back" and he’s still struggling. Laura goes on gambling junkets coincident with her LPGA travels and still contends WHEREVER she chooses to play.

Response:

In her own words, she was in way over her head, and will never do this again. Also, in her owns words, she said she is going back where she belongs – on the ladies tour. The best female player in the world is not competitive on the mens’ tour. She has an endearing personality though.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – She was in position to make the cut until halfway through today’s round. I think a lot of people expected her to shoot a combined 160 or worse. As it was, she shot 145 and missed the cut by only four shots. Tom Smith Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. [...] In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. She was in 96th place, ahead of just 11 other players. How is that being competetive? Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ * If you post a followup, -DO NOT- email me a copy of it! * Top-posters are generally ignored

Response:

I have trouble believing she was close to last in fairways and greens hit based on her first day. Remember too with longer courses she’d have two extra par fives to make birdies on. So maybe longer might actually mean shorter as far as playability. One important item pointed out on the golf channel was that she is basically a straight hitter where the tour often demands that you shape your shot. Hogan pointed this out especially about Colonial. Annika’s good but the guys playing the PGA tour are really special. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. She didn’t embarrass herself this week, although she could have played better. The weak point in her game was her putting. This is where a man’s physical advantages over a woman would be at their least. She did prove that she can be competitive on the men’s tour, although she needs a lot of help in her putting. If she had practice on the type of green conditions she was facing, she could have easily made the cut. As it was, she left way too many strokes out there, especially between five and fifteen feet of the hole. While the weekend warriors (like me) should shoot to be close to the pin except within ten feet, most professional golfers should strive to make puts within twenty feet of the hole if they have any hopes of getting paid for their ability. Another fault with Annika was that she played for par. While this is a good strategy if you are up three strokes on the final hole of a major championship (remember John Van de Veld at the 1999 British Open?), this will not produce wins on the PGA tour, either men’s or women’s. In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. — Tom Smith "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one!"

– You are in control until you are out of control.

Response:

… no matter how hard you try, the choking’s gotta let out somewhere. And there it did. The way she came off the first few holes, sinking a 15′ putt, looking like she was on the verge of conquering the men’s game as well as the women’s game, it was absolutely breathtaking. For a while, it really looked like a woman was going to win it all or come close (as she would have: she missed all the 5′9" – 15′ putts after that first triumph, together which would have put her down to 66, just 2 strokes behind). What happened, you might wonder after the first couple holes? Well, I feel so guilty, I have to let it off my chest now. You see, I just couldn’t help it, my hands started going to my throat and I started making gagging sounds, while cheering her on with "Choke! Choke! Choke!" Now, you gotta understand. This is not something I can do for light cause, for I am aware of the devastating consequences it can have. The last time I really lost control was in the ’90’s. There was this female figure skater who had just come off winning the national championship. There she was, looking so talented, so pretty and graceful, that I just had to do it. The hands went to the throat, and I lost control. "Choke! Choke! Choke!" and pretty soon, she tripped and fell over, stumbling to the ice. But once wasn’t enough. Once she got up and started again, then again with the gagging sounds and "Choke! Choke! Choke!" … and again she fell to the ice. Oh, the pleasure of it all. Again, she got up and skated some more, and I again I went with the gagging sounds and "Choke! Choke!"; and again she tripped over herself and fell on the ice. She was devastated beyond description, practically crying her way off the ice. And I was practically welling up with tears of joy. But it didn’t stop there. The depths to while she fell afterwards are absolutely breathtaking. In later competitions, her confidence was so shaken that they say she actually tried to fix the outcome of one. She was a whining mess on the middle of the ice in the Olympics later on. She descended yet further, eventually living in a trailer park and taking on cheap gigs and … oh I can hardly bring myself to say it … actual FOX TV SPECIALS!!! A person who has to resort to this must surely have been traumatized for life. You can’t sink any lower than that! And that woman was … TONYA HARDING!!! And I admit, I occasionally like watching game shows like the Price is Right — not to see them win, but to enjoy watching them blow it when they do. A really happy day for me is those rare occasions when there’s a double overbid in the showcase and nobody wins anything. I’ve even thought about going on one of those winner-takes-all reality TV shows. My goal would be to win: but not to win in order to win prizes, but rather to win in order to keep everyone else from winning anything; and then to outright refuse the prizes so that nobody wins anything at all. It’s not winning the game that’s fun. It’s making everybody else lose that’s the real fun. So, you must understand, what when *I* say "Choke! Choke!", it is a very serious matter indeed. And for the woman golfer, it just went downhill from there. 71 the first round, then bogey after bogey the second round, leaving the field in tears. Oh, it was so beautiful to watch. I can only ponder what the future now holds for her. I don’t think she’ll ever be able to compete again — not even on the LPGA. I’m so very sorry.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doesn’t matter, she was a mile from the hole. That’s where distance into the green matters. Nobody is going to make birdies putting from 30 feet most of the time. Of course, she wasn’t always 30 feet from the hole. She missed a number of makeable birdie putts. Look at her average distance to the hole for each yardage grouping that I posted here a couple of days ago. Assuming you mean the "Annika’s Stats" thread, I see that for 36 holes, she had 606 ft, an average of 16.8 feet. That ranked 107th, but somehow, her "Average Distance to pin, hitting from" different distances were 99th, 36th, 40th, 37th, and 82nd. She was above average — against PGA tour pros — from 125-200 yards and suffered from outside 200 and inside 125. Are these approach shots only (ie, the par-minus-two stroke)? Any idea how many of each she had? Seems like I remember most of her approach shots being in the 125-200 yard range — only on the two par fours would she get within 125 for her approach. Yes, that’s the thread. From what I understood, this was all approach shots to the green, not just GIR, for example. I didn’t jot down how many of each there were, however.

That’s the problem — they have an "under 125 yards" section that’s vastly different for Sorenstam than for the other PGA pros. I don’t know what Annika’s shortest approach shot was, but it might have been more than 100 yards. Many of the PGA pros could go at the greens on par-fives in two, leaving them chips for their "approach shots". It’s not surprising that Sorenstam did so poorly in "under 125 yards", since she likely didn’t have the benefit of hitting little chips to the green. Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doesn’t matter, she was a mile from the hole. That’s where distance into the green matters. Nobody is going to make birdies putting from 30 feet most of the time. Of course, she wasn’t always 30 feet from the hole. She missed a number of makeable birdie putts. Look at her average distance to the hole for each yardage grouping that I posted here a couple of days ago. Assuming you mean the "Annika’s Stats" thread, I see that for 36 holes, she had 606 ft, an average of 16.8 feet. That ranked 107th, but somehow, her "Average Distance to pin, hitting from" different distances were 99th, 36th, 40th, 37th, and 82nd. She was above average — against PGA tour pros — from 125-200 yards and suffered from outside 200 and inside 125. Are these approach shots only (ie, the par-minus-two stroke)? Any idea how many of each she had? Seems like I remember most of her approach shots being in the 125-200 yard range — only on the two par fours would she get within 125 for her approach.

Yes, that’s the thread. From what I understood, this was all approach shots to the green, not just GIR, for example. I didn’t jot down how many of each there were, however.

Response:

Of course, she wasn’t always 30 feet from the hole. She missed a number of makeable birdie putts. Look at her average distance to the hole for each yardage grouping that I posted here a couple of days ago.

Assuming you mean the "Annika’s Stats" thread, I see that for 36 holes, she had 606 ft, an average of 16.8 feet. That ranked 107th, but somehow, her "Average Distance to pin, hitting from" different distances were 99th, 36th, 40th, 37th, and 82nd. She was above average — against PGA tour pros — from 125-200 yards and suffered from outside 200 and inside 125. Are these approach shots only (ie, the par-minus-two stroke)? Any idea how many of each she had? Seems like I remember most of her approach shots being in the 125-200 yard range — only on the two par fours would she get within 125 for her approach. So this seems to boil down to distance. From outside 200 yards, she’s not long enough to get the ball close enough. And on par-fives, her approach is from 100-125 yards (whereas other players might be hitting from 80 or closer — maybe even already around the green). I guess I’d need to know more about how those stats were gathered before passing any judgment. To me the problem still seems to be (a) she wasn’t long enough to give herself a lot of chances for birdies, and (b) she putted like crap. And it’s 80% (b). When the big problem that a player had was that he or she didn’t putt well, that’s an indication that they might be able to compete the next week. Putting comes and goes; two rounds doesn’t tell me that a person is a great or a weak putter. (Her play on the LPGA indicates that she actually *is* a weak putter, though. Too bad.) Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

Doesn’t matter, she was a mile from the hole. That’s where distance into the green matters. Nobody is going to make birdies putting from 30 feet most of the time. Look at her average distance to the hole for each yardage grouping that I posted here a couple of days ago.

Response:

"Dude", she hit 66.7% of her greens. I don’t know what ranking that was after two days, but it would be T44 (out of 76) for the four rounds. Tee to green wasn’t the problem, and I think she had enough chances to make four or five birdies in the first two rounds. She putted very poorly, though. Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. [...] In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. She was in 96th place, ahead of just 11 other players. How is that being competetive?

Someone has to finish 96th. "Competitive" doesn’t mean "in the top ten" or "making the cut" or something like that (to me, anyway). It means shooting a score that’s representative of the field in general. 81-84 would not have been competitive. 71-74 is. Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. She didn’t embarrass herself this week, although she could have played better. The weak point in her game was her putting. This is where a man’s physical advantages over a woman would be at their least. She did prove that she can be competitive on the men’s tour, although she needs a lot of help in her putting. If she had practice on the type of green conditions she was facing, she could have easily made the cut. As it was, she left way too many strokes out there, especially between five and fifteen feet of the hole. While the weekend warriors (like me) should shoot to be close to the pin except within ten feet, most professional golfers should strive to make puts within twenty feet of the hole if they have any hopes of getting paid for their ability. Another fault with Annika was that she played for par. While this is a good strategy if you are up three strokes on the final hole of a major championship (remember John Van de Veld at the 1999 British Open?), this will not produce wins on the PGA tour, either men’s or women’s. In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. — Tom Smith "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one!"

Response:

She was in position to make the cut until halfway through today’s round. I think a lot of people expected her to shoot a combined 160 or worse. As it was, she shot 145 and missed the cut by only four shots. Tom Smith

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. [...] In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. She was in 96th place, ahead of just 11 other players. How is that being competetive? Jack — aka Keet Visit my web page at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ * If you post a followup, -DO NOT- email me a copy of it! * Top-posters are generally ignored

Response:

Statistics only tell a part of the story. She was playing very conservatively and never really took any risks.

So she was playing conservatively and still ended up near the bottom in GIR.. ok…. While she was one of the furthest away from the pin, she really wasn’t trying to be close to it.

LOL! This is rich. yeah, she probably figured if she was too close, people would EXPECT her to make birdies! The pin placements were much more difficult than she was used to. Also, she was playing for much tougher green conditions.

No kidding She was always just trying for par, and never really trying for anything better.

Yes, no kidding. When you have 30 foot putts for birdie, you’re not going to make too many of them. Also, she was at or under the cut line until she finished the 8th hole today. Her downfall was definitely her putter, although she could have played more aggressively and had better stats, especially on her approach shots.

You guys are reading too much into her putting. How difficult is it to understand that when you don’t hit the ball far off the tee, you have longer irons into the greens, and you have longer putts for birdie, therefore you have more putts?

Response:

I agree with that point. Also, she had to use longer, less accurate clubs to accomidate her game. That said, she came in with a stated goal of shooting par. When was the last tournament you saw that anyone finisned with a score of even par and didn’t have to make a long distance phone call to reach the leaderboard? (The U.S. Open is one exception to this, but then again, they try to be evil when they set up a U.S. Open course.) Tom Smith

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dude, she was at the bottom of the barrell in almost every statistical category. She did well in accuracy but when you’re last in driving and have to hit long irons into the greens, you’re not going to get a lot of good birdie putts. Just imagine how she’s do on a much longer course. It would be brutal. I agree totally. I’m extremely happy that she did not make the cut. Her participation in this tourney was handed to her on a silver platter rather than on merit. All in all, this may well have been the most overhyped sporting event of this year.

Exactly, turn this around and allow some Hooter’s tour, Sr. tour, mini tour, Asian tour, and good male Ams to play in some of the LPGA events and you’ll see how quickly they try to put the genie back in the bottle. As I predicted in another golf forum months ago, the guys who finished behind Annika would be held up to ridicule, never mind the fact that they would all be Grand Slammers on the LPGA tour if given the opportunity. Think of it this way, if Perk’s plays the LPGA tour full time he goes from a one trick pony Player’s Championship winner to a world famous star overnight, contending in every event, never missing a cut, etc. Rather than needing that P. C. win at Sawgrass to hold onto his card for the next few years, he’d become a millionaire contender, heir apparent to being the next "big thing" in women’s golf. Heck, he’d be the "scariest" and "longest" player in women’s history, an endorsement Queen/King if ever there was one, etc., etc. … Annika’s status in the "men’s" game is made possible by her having been afforded a "protected" LPGA environment in which to develop her game. Numerous male players of Annika’s demonstrated "ability" have never achieved anything much of note in golf. In all likelihood they DON’T have ANY PGA credentials thanks to the fact that they were forced into starting their pro careers with the men’s tour school: failing multiple times there and in the Monday qualifiers, while bankrupting themselves, and then running back to school or the golf shop. Annika comes to the men’s tour with a level of confidence and status that’s far disproportionate to her actual status in the "men’s" game. A relevant question that’s seldom asked is how Annika would do if forced to start out on the men’s tour without having been bootstrapped on the ladie’s tour. Not only that, as a "male" player she’s being treated to a first class experience at a historic PGA tour venue, something that NEVER happens for the journeyman male pro: heck, her own locker room, huge gallery, etc. When was the last time someone finished 96th, missed the cut, and still received a hero’s welcome. Imagine how Duffy Waldorf would play if he was treated to the (Waldorf) Astoria experience in every event he played. He’d go from Duffy to Lance overnight, if he didn’t die from the shock of actually having the gallery and the TV camera men pulling for him while he was in 96th place: as a fan of legends like Watson, Faldo, Norman, and Price, I’ve seen numerous telecasts of the Majors where you won’t even see any of them hit a single shot in anger if they’re not within 7 strokes of Tiger. Heck there might even be enough in Duffy’s gallery to move those Tigeresque non-rooted boulders: … Duff would be the next big thing in golf too, taking over from Tim Herron and Tiger.

Response:

I agree totally. I’m extremely happy that she did not make the cut. Her participation in this tourney was handed to her on a silver platter rather than on merit. All in all, this may well have been the most overhyped sporting event of this year.

Response:

Dude, she was at the bottom of the barrell in almost every statistical category. She did well in accuracy but when you’re last in driving and have to hit long irons into the greens, you’re not going to get a lot of good birdie putts. Just imagine how she’s do on a much longer course. It would be brutal. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. She didn’t embarrass herself this week, although she could have played better. The weak point in her game was her putting. This is where a man’s physical advantages over a woman would be at their least. She did prove that she can be competitive on the men’s tour, although she needs a lot of help in her putting. If she had practice on the type of green conditions she was facing, she could have easily made the cut. As it was, she left way too many strokes out there, especially between five and fifteen feet of the hole. While the weekend warriors (like me) should shoot to be close to the pin except within ten feet, most professional golfers should strive to make puts within twenty feet of the hole if they have any hopes of getting paid for their ability. Another fault with Annika was that she played for par. While this is a good strategy if you are up three strokes on the final hole of a major championship (remember John Van de Veld at the 1999 British Open?), this will not produce wins on the PGA tour, either men’s or women’s. In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. — Tom Smith "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one!"

Response:

Statistics only tell a part of the story. She was playing very conservatively and never really took any risks. While she was one of the furthest away from the pin, she really wasn’t trying to be close to it. The pin placements were much more difficult than she was used to. Also, she was playing for much tougher green conditions. She was always just trying for par, and never really trying for anything better. Also, she was at or under the cut line until she finished the 8th hole today. Her downfall was definitely her putter, although she could have played more aggressively and had better stats, especially on her approach shots. Tom Smith

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dude, she was at the bottom of the barrell in almost every statistical category. She did well in accuracy but when you’re last in driving and have to hit long irons into the greens, you’re not going to get a lot of good birdie putts. Just imagine how she’s do on a much longer course. It would be brutal. Well, everyone has their own thoughts on Annika, so I thought I would weigh in with mine. She didn’t embarrass herself this week, although she could have played better. The weak point in her game was her putting. This is where a man’s physical advantages over a woman would be at their least. She did prove that she can be competitive on the men’s tour, although she needs a lot of help in her putting. If she had practice on the type of green conditions she was facing, she could have easily made the cut. As it was, she left way too many strokes out there, especially between five and fifteen feet of the hole. While the weekend warriors (like me) should shoot to be close to the pin except within ten feet, most professional golfers should strive to make puts within twenty feet of the hole if they have any hopes of getting paid for their ability. Another fault with Annika was that she played for par. While this is a good strategy if you are up three strokes on the final hole of a major championship (remember John Van de Veld at the 1999 British Open?), this will not produce wins on the PGA tour, either men’s or women’s. In summary, I think Annika achieved her goals, that being to prove that she could be competitive on the men’s tour. — Tom Smith "The future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one!"

Response:

Female Players on PGA

admin — Mon, 19 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

From http://www.famoustexans.com/babedidrikson.htm "She met George Zaharias, a well-known professional wrestler and sports promoter, when she qualified at the 1938 Los Angeles Open, a men’s Professional Golfers’ Association tournament."

Did I ever mention that my Dad introduced Tom Weiskopf to his future wife? Weiskopf’s, I mean. –Blair "I probably didn’t."

Response:

actually a number of commentators have mentioned it in relation to Byron Nelson, however I think all agree that his many achievements are still "incredible", irrespective of the circumstances. BTW Byron Nelson had a number of "incredible" achievements — which one are you referring to? I assume you refer to the 18 tournaments he won in 1945, including the 11 in a row — probably the most incredible!!

I looked around for records of the tourneys. I know Snead and Hogan were in them, because I just saw the documentary on the TV the other day, but I can’t find any of the other names. The fields weren’t watered down, and it wouldn’t have mattered, because the best players, and it didn’t matter who was filling-in among the lower echelons. Snead won 11 straight against the best players of his era, and Ted Williams hit .406 *and* flew fighters over the Pacific, war or no war. –Blair "Some shit you just can’t make up."

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Jeff, actually a number of commentators have mentioned it in relation to Byron Nelson, however I think all agree that his many achievements are still "incredible", irrespective of the circumstances. BTW Byron Nelson had a number of "incredible" achievements — which one are you referring to? I assume you refer to the 18 tournaments he won in 1945, including the 11 in a row — probably the most incredible!! Play on. MyQ.

Response:

Yes, of course. But you call it incredible irrespective of the circumstances. When you talk about Babe, you say "Would it be possible to suggest that many of the younger healthier tour players were off serving their country on foreign shores, somewhat weakening the male presence in the tournament?" You don’t say that it was incredible irrespective of the circumstances.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Los Angeles Open, Jan 5-8, 1945 76, 81 — made second round cut Third round 79 — missed third round cut Phoenix Open, Jan 12-15, 1945 Sponsor’s exemption 77, 72, 75, 80 — made cut Winner Byron Nelson Tucson Open, Jan 19-22, 1945 Made cut — 307 total for T42 Winner Ray Mangrum, runner-up Byron Nelson If I look at the dates, wasn’t something else important going on at that time, like a little World War or something? Would it be possible to suggest that many of the younger healthier tour players were off serving their country on foreign shores, somewhat weakening the male presence in the tournament?

Why don’t you mention that anytime Byron Nelson’s "incredible" achievement is mentioned?

Response:

Tucson Open, Jan 19-22, 1945 Made cut — 307 total for T42 Winner Ray Mangrum, runner-up Byron Nelson If I look at the dates, wasn’t something else important going on at that time, like a little World War or something?

Do *not* kid yourself on this point. Byron Nelson played "the greatest year in golf" that year, and none of the real competition was away. He just plain owned the game for 11 straight weeks. Would it be possible to suggest that many of the younger healthier tour players were off serving their country on foreign shores, somewhat weakening the male presence in the tournament?

Nope. They were there. The Babe was indeed an incredible athlete, but I truly believe her PGA golfing achievement should never be compared to Annika’s.

Only because, except for the top echelon, golfers in that era wouldn’t compete with the current game. Of course it could be said that the Colonial field is weakened because of the absence of some of the world’s top players, including Vijay who is off fighting his own private war.

Vijay and Tiger are out. Is Ernie playing? Doesn’t matter. Taking 3 names off the top doesn’t make the course play any easier. She’ll have to hit a statistic in the middle of the pack to avoid being on a plane Friday night. –Blair "Phil’s there. Probably weaned the young’un."

Response:

With all the hype that has been going around this weeks colonial, several news articles keep mentioning that Babe Dedrikson Zaharias played in a PGA tour event many years ago. However, not one article has mentioned what kind of scores she shot. Does anyone know how well she did?

See http://www.pgatour.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6380297,00.html Los Angeles Open, Jan 5-8, 1945 76, 81 — made second round cut Third round 79 — missed third round cut Phoenix Open, Jan 12-15, 1945 Sponsor’s exemption 77, 72, 75, 80 — made cut Winner Byron Nelson Tucson Open, Jan 19-22, 1945 Made cut — 307 total for T42 Winner Ray Mangrum, runner-up Byron Nelson — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

She only made one cut – they had multiple cuts back then. (The International, and match play competition have multiple cuts now – but we don’t count them when determining how often Tiger makes a cut)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all the hype that has been going around this weeks colonial, several news articles keep mentioning that Babe Dedrikson Zaharias played in a PGA tour event many years ago. However, not one article has mentioned what kind of scores she shot. Does anyone know how well she did? She made the cut. Don’t know much else. She only made one cut – they had multiple cuts back then. (The International, and match play competition have multiple cuts now – but we don’t count them when determining how often Tiger makes a cut)

Actually, I was a little confused when I wrote that. She actually played in 3 events, yet the media often mention it as if she had played in only the one – where she just made the first cut.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all the hype that has been going around this weeks colonial, several news articles keep mentioning that Babe Dedrikson Zaharias played in a PGA tour event many years ago. However, not one article has mentioned what kind of scores she shot. Does anyone know how well she did? See http://www.pgatour.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6380297,00.html Los Angeles Open, Jan 5-8, 1945 76, 81 — made second round cut Third round 79 — missed third round cut Phoenix Open, Jan 12-15, 1945 Sponsor’s exemption 77, 72, 75, 80 — made cut Winner Byron Nelson Tucson Open, Jan 19-22, 1945 Made cut — 307 total for T42 Winner Ray Mangrum, runner-up Byron Nelson

If I look at the dates, wasn’t something else important going on at that time, like a little World War or something? Would it be possible to suggest that many of the younger healthier tour players were off serving their country on foreign shores, somewhat weakening the male presence in the tournament? The Babe was indeed an incredible athlete, but I truly believe her PGA golfing achievement should never be compared to Annika’s. Of course it could be said that the Colonial field is weakened because of the absence of some of the world’s top players, including Vijay who is off fighting his own private war. Play on. MyQ.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all the hype that has been going around this weeks colonial, several news articles keep mentioning that Babe Dedrikson Zaharias played in a PGA tour event many years ago. However, not one article has mentioned what kind of scores she shot. Does anyone know how well she did? See http://www.pgatour.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6380297,00.html Los Angeles Open, Jan 5-8, 1945 76, 81 — made second round cut Third round 79 — missed third round cut Phoenix Open, Jan 12-15, 1945 Sponsor’s exemption 77, 72, 75, 80 — made cut Winner Byron Nelson Tucson Open, Jan 19-22, 1945 Made cut — 307 total for T42 Winner Ray Mangrum, runner-up Byron Nelson

You forgot 1938: http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam030516/glf_babe-ap.html "The 1945 Los Angeles Open wasn’t her first time playing on the men’s tour. She also did so at the same event in 1938, getting in simply by filling out an application". From http://www.famoustexans.com/babedidrikson.htm "She met George Zaharias, a well-known professional wrestler and sports promoter, when she qualified at the 1938 Los Angeles Open, a men’s Professional Golfers’ Association tournament."

Response:

She made the cut. Don’t know much else.

Response:

Chicken Woods and Whining Singh

admin — Wed, 14 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You’re an Idiot!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear PRW what I think is the real reason why Tiger is not playing, is that he is afraid he might be asked a question or his opinion on how she is doing, and you know that he is terribly afraid to make any kind of stand or comment on anything important!!, - Speaking of the mother of all cowards!!, Such a pathetic waste of "clout", not wanting to make waves in the so called "white mans" world! He just floats along and takes there money, What a great leader he is !! Iam glad he is not playing, Iam quite sick of his Uncle Tom behavior. Can you only imagine the good this man could do, if he cared about the struggle of his people and all minorities!!, and had the courage and moral fiber to fight all the injustices in American today? Maybe next life Tiger!! (I think he should change his name to Pussy) JCL Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic!

Response:

I think he once gave an opinion about the Super Bowl and that’s damned important. – Speaking of the mother of all cowards!!, Such a pathetic waste of "clout", not wanting to make waves in the so called "white mans" world!

An acquaintance of mine saw Tiger in a swimming pool last year. You know what? He was making waves. So there! He just floats along and takes there money, What a great leader he is !! Iam glad he is not playing, Iam quite sick of his Uncle Tom behavior.

He’s half Thai. Is "Uncle Tom behavior" a term you use to describe the behavior of Americans whose mothers are Thai? Can you only imagine the good this man could do, if he cared about the struggle of his people

Are "his people" other Americans whose mothers are from Thailand? and all minorities!!, and had the courage and moral fiber to fight all the injustices in American today?

If only all professional golfers stood up as you say then poverty, ignorance, disease, and halitosis could be cured. Think of the possibilities. Maybe next life Tiger!! (I think he should change his name to Pussy)

He will, but only if there is a James Bond movie called Golffinger. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – JCL Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic!

Response:

Dear PRW what I think is the real reason why Tiger is not playing, is that he is afraid he might be asked a question or his opinion on how she is doing, and you know that he is terribly afraid to make any kind of stand or comment on anything important!!, - Speaking of the mother of all cowards!!, Such a pathetic waste of "clout", not wanting to make waves in the so called "white mans" world! He just floats along and takes there money, What a great leader he is !! Iam glad he is not playing, Iam quite sick of his Uncle Tom behavior. Can you only imagine the good this man could do, if he cared about the struggle of his people and all minorities!!, and had the courage and moral fiber to fight all the injustices in American today? Maybe next life Tiger!! (I think he should change his name to Pussy) JCL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic!

Response:

Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break… Tiger would have shot a 49? Let’s see Annika hit a 59 from the back tees at Augusta, fruitcake.

We know what Annika can do on her best day. Put Tiger on the same tees as she used on the same course as she was at, and with the same conditions she was playing in. If it is his worst day, would he score 49? How would he score on his best day? 39? Or give me an example of what Tiger has done on his worst day and persuade me that Annika’s best would have been 10 strokes poorer.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic! Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break… Tiger would have shot a 49? Let’s see Annika hit a 59 from the back tees at Augusta, fruitcake.

Tiger’s worst round at Augusta was I am sure in the mid-70s at least, so she would only have to shoot about 84 on her best day to show that your statement is incorrect. Seriously, I assume you were just exaggerating a little bit… my post brilliantly illuminating that exaggeration. — — — David "Thor" Collard — http://ttsoft.com/thor

Response:

Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break… Tiger would have shot a 49?

On his worst day.

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic! Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break… Tiger would have shot a 49?

Let’s see Annika hit a 59 from the back tees at Augusta, fruitcake.

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic! Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break…

Tiger would have shot a 49? — — — David "Thor" Collard — http://ttsoft.com/thor

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic! Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break…

Good then! He should have no trouble then and therefore nothing to complain about. Right?

Response:

Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break…

He beat her by about that once – was that his worst day and her best?

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic! Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break…

This is almost certainly not true. Tiger *did* beat Annika by 10 strokes last month. It’s quite unlikely that it happens that it was his worst day (considering Tiger was under par that day) and her best. I suspect Annika could beat Tiger one time in 100. Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic!

Response:

Now we know who they really are. Cowards, afraid of getting their asses kicked by a woman. Pathetic!

Tiger on his worst day would beat Annika on her best by 10 strokes. Give me a break…

Response:

Has anyone tried the Q-Ray bracelet?

admin — Fri, 02 May 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I also swear by my Q-Ray bracelet. I don’t feel that the "if you believe it works then it will…. like voodoo," BS is accurate for me. I purchased the Q-Ray because I have Osteoarthritis in my shoulder

Did a doctor prescribe wearing the Q-Ray? Do ANY reputable doctors prescribe it? Markus, just to let you know, I am also in the medical profession. I sell surgical and medical devices and implants. I am in the Operating Room on a daily basis instructing surgeons on how to use our instruments during surgery, so it’s not like I am a gullible uneducated person who believes in snake oil.

My doctor gave me a cool new pill that he said they just came out with. I’m not too educated about all the wonderful modern medical advancements, but this little pill does wonders. I think it’s called "Placebo" or something like that. I forget all the stuff it has in it, but I think sugar was mentioned. Try it.

Response:

Try this. It’ll do wonders for your wallet: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/qray.html

Response:

I wouldn’t sleep with anyone with a rubber band around their wrist. Was it the same rubber band for all those years?

I don’t care if she DOES get pregnant – I’m removing this rubber.

Response:

Markus… First mistake is asking RSG posters about such items and hoping for a straight answer. Superstition is common on all tours. I only play with my divit repair tool, a quarter and 1 tee in my right pocket, all other pockets empty.

It’s not superstition to believe that the more things in my pocket, the harder it is to feel around to find my marker. A gazillion professional golfers have similar superstitions. Pay attention the wrists of golfers and instructors on tv. Most are wearing one sort of bracelet or another.

Then go ahead and emulate their superstitions. It’s less work than emulating their game. There’s nothing wrong with believing in a power greater then you.

There could be something very wrong in believing in something that doesn’t exist. Certainly Western religions say this. Of course, I don’t believe copper bracelets are greater than me.

Response:

Within 6 hours I noticed a tingling sensation up and down the arm that I put it on and about a day and a half later, the pain was enormously better. Since then I have turned three of my friends on to Q-Rays and they all swear by them as well. They to purchased them not believing in their working, but found positive benefits.

Your "proof" of why it works is typical of junk science. You have no control group. You are linking a benefit (your pain was better) with a supposed cause, without any linkage of the two at all except they happened to occur at the same time. Here’s an analogy: You eat a cookie before you play your round of golf. You make your first hole in 1 during the round. Therefore, the cookie caused you to get a hole in one. You may be a smart guy, but your analytical reasoning needs some work.

Response:

Here you go: http://www.healthfinder.gov/news/newsstory.asp?docID=510197 The results were strikingly similar for both groups. For example, 75.1 percent of those in the placebo group reported an improved maximum pain score after seven days, compared to 75.7 percent in the ionized bracelet group. The pain relief score after 14 days was 77.7 percent for the placebo group, 76.7 percent for the ionized bracelet wearers. After 28 days, it was 76.7 percent for the placebo group and 77.4 percent for the ionized bracelet group.

Response:

Reminds me of the magnetic bands they sell. It makes sense that the magnet would attract hemoglobin. The only problem is that a magnet strong enough to do any good would wipe all of your credit cards. Not exactly what the marketers want to do!

Response:

I’ve tried magnets with little success, my friend "He’s a pro" swears they help him recover from injury much faster. I didn’t notice enough progress when I wore them to risk demagnetizing my credit cards and atm card

Response:

Another version. "A fool and his money are rich and stupid." Some elementary school kids were given the following to complete:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? Thanks — Markus It works on a principle discovered many years ago. It’s called something like – "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Response:

I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work?

It’s like voodoo. If you believe it works, then it works. I used to wear a loose rubber band around my wrist when I was a teen and I’ve never once had a broken arm and I’ve never been pregnant. So if you live with the possible side-effects like sterilty, then I say go for it.

Response:

I wouldn’t sleep with anyone with a rubber band around their wrist. Was it the same rubber band for all those years?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? It’s like voodoo. If you believe it works, then it works. I used to wear a loose rubber band around my wrist when I was a teen and I’ve never once had a broken arm and I’ve never been pregnant. So if you live with the possible side-effects like sterilty, then I say go for it.

Response:

Within 6 hours I noticed a tingling sensation up and down the arm that I put it on and about a day and a half later, the pain was enormously better. The pain was enormously better. It was real good pain? Or was it a healthy, strong pain? "How’s your cold?" "Oh, the cold’s as healthy as can be – winning the battle against me".

I’ve still got a supply of Frosty the Halloween Pumpkins….. Rob

Response:

No offence but a doctor, no less than the great Dean Adell of radio fame is backtracking on some "old wives tales". He is now saying that "If you had called me 10 years ago I would have said you didn’t understand scientific experimentation. But now we have tests that you prove you are right." I don’t remember the subject matter but scientists can be as dogmatic as the next group of zealots. How do you argue against a legitimate money back guarantee? Isn’t that the same as refusing to do an experiment? I probably won’t buy one even though 3 of us in my family have chronic pain, but I don’t think it is stupid to give it a try. How many brands are there? Are any getting more valid anecdotal endorsements?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Within 6 hours I noticed a tingling sensation up and down the arm that I put it on and about a day and a half later, the pain was enormously better. Since then I have turned three of my friends on to Q-Rays and they all swear by them as well. They to purchased them not believing in their working, but found positive benefits. Your "proof" of why it works is typical of junk science. You have no control group. You are linking a benefit (your pain was better) with a supposed cause, without any linkage of the two at all except they happened to occur at the same time. Here’s an analogy: You eat a cookie before you play your round of golf. You make your first hole in 1 during the round. Therefore, the cookie caused you to get a hole in one. You may be a smart guy, but your analytical reasoning needs some work.

Response:

Within 6 hours I noticed a tingling sensation up and down the arm that I put it on and about a day and a half later, the pain was enormously better.

The pain was enormously better. It was real good pain? Or was it a healthy, strong pain? "How’s your cold?" "Oh, the cold’s as healthy as can be – winning the battle against me".

Response:

Markus, I also swear by my Q-Ray bracelet. I don’t feel that the "if you believe it works then it will…. like voodoo," BS is accurate for me. I purchased the Q-Ray because I have Osteoarthritis in my shoulder, but I did so because I was desperate and hoping that anything would work. At the time I totally thought that the Q-Ray would NOT do anything for me. I went to Golf Galaxy, a local retailer that is a distributor for Q-Ray and purchased one. I figured that I can just take it back in a day or two and get my money back without having to deal with mailing/shipping anything back in order to get a credit if it doesn’t help. Within 6 hours I noticed a tingling sensation up and down the arm that I put it on and about a day and a half later, the pain was enormously better. Since then I have turned three of my friends on to Q-Rays and they all swear by them as well. They to purchased them not believing in their working, but found positive benefits. Markus, just to let you know, I am also in the medical profession. I sell surgical and medical devices and implants. I am in the Operating Room on a daily basis instructing surgeons on how to use our instruments during surgery, so it’s not like I am a gullible uneducated person who believes in snake oil. I also agree with the other gentleman who said that you made a mistake asking this question in the group. There are many people in this newsgroup (not everyone obviously) who love to tell you how stupid you are in so many words. Sometimes they sugar coat it and other times they don’t. These same people prefer to use that approach rather than offer anything constructive. I almost wasn’t going to respond to your post at all, because the last time someone posted this same question and I offered my feedback, it sparked a slew of very hostile uninformed attacks on me for what my experience with the Q-Ray was. Just my two cents, buy one, try it for yourself and if you don’t feel that it does anything for you, return it. Good Luck. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? It’s like voodoo. If you believe it works, then it works. I used to wear a loose rubber band around my wrist when I was a teen and I’ve never once had a broken arm and I’ve never been pregnant. So if you live with the possible side-effects like sterilty, then I say go for it.

Thanks in advance!!! Regards, Steve B.

Response:

Im believe in a Power greater than I. What’s that got to do with copper braclets ?

Stick your copper bracelet in the Power socket, and you’ll see. –Blair "Of course, grounding the club drains all that charge, so it’s just a scam."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – et: I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? Thanks — Markus Markus… First mistake is asking RSG posters about such items and hoping for a straight answer. Superstition is common on all tours. I only play with my divit repair tool, a quarter and 1 tee in my right pocket, all other pockets empty. A gazillion professional golfers have similiar superstitions. Pay attention the wrists of golfers and instructors on tv. Most are wearing one sort of bracelet or another. There’s nothing wrong with believing in a power greater then you.

Im believe in a Power greater than I. What’s that got to do with copper braclets ?

Response:

I’ve tried magnets with little success, my friend "He’s a pro" swears they help him recover from injury much faster.

Classic Argument from Authority. I didn’t notice enough progress when I wore them to risk demagnetizing my credit cards and atm card

They’re bogus. Here’s some links: http://www.skepdic.com/refuge/qray.html http://www.skepdic.com/regressive.html Scroll down to June 28, 2000 and ROTFLYAO: http://www.skepdic.com/refuge/funk13.html The fact that Butch Harmon sells quack bracelets on TV is sad. He should know better. But apparently all he really knows is he’s getting paid. –Blair "What’s the a good swing-thought for endorsing a bribe check?"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Zponge — Let’s not be too cynical, the copper bracelet I’ve been wearing has made a big difference for me, and a lot of people think that they are bullshit, so it is possible that some of these things work — although I don’t doubt that most don’t. Markus Sorry but I think that there’s a lot of rubbish talked about such products and very litle evidence that they work. If you say that they work for you then I’ll accept that. But here’s the sort of garbage that is said – "Q-Ray is the best of best in its kind by balancing your body’s Yin and Yang (Negative and Positive Ions)". I wonder how it does this? "Q-Ray may maximize your Flexibility, Speed, Endurance and Power". ANy ads that say may really mean – we can say any rubbish here as it may or maynot be true. "First it was copper, now comes the multimetal Q-Ray Bracelet , which promotes a "non medical" way to better health by "balancing the body’s biomagnetic and electromagnetic currents". The Q-Ray is on the wrists of Gary Player, pros in other sports. The majority experienced relief from stiff joints, achy muscles, or other ailments (a few said it improved their swing). But most thought the bracelet was more attractive than the copper bands and were happy it didn’t leave a green stain on their wrists". I am astounded to think how a magic braclet could balance your biomagnetic and electromagnetic currents – what utter utter bullsh*t. The only advantage that I can see is that they don’t leave a green stain on your wrist. My advice to cure this would be to stop wearing a copper bracelet – it’s the cheapest and most effective way to stop the stain and it may improve your swing and may cure your bad back and may cure your headaches etc. Note that 99% of all golfers who abondon their copper bracelets feel instant relief. Ok I’ll stop and sorry for hijacking what was supposed to be a sensible thread. Please don’t reply to this thread anyone except if you can answer the original question.

Well, I must say that I’ve always carried copper pennies in my right front pants pocket, and ever since I began that, my right leg hasn’t bothered me.

Response:

Zponge — Let’s not be too cynical, the copper bracelet I’ve been wearing has made a big difference for me, and a lot of people think that they are bullshit, so it is possible that some of these things work — although I don’t doubt that most don’t. Markus

Sorry but I think that there’s a lot of rubbish talked about such products and very litle evidence that they work. If you say that they work for you then I’ll accept that. But here’s the sort of garbage that is said – "Q-Ray is the best of best in its kind by balancing your body’s Yin and Yang (Negative and Positive Ions)". I wonder how it does this? "Q-Ray may maximize your Flexibility, Speed, Endurance and Power". ANy ads that say may really mean – we can say any rubbish here as it may or maynot be true. "First it was copper, now comes the multimetal Q-Ray Bracelet , which promotes a "non medical" way to better health by "balancing the body’s biomagnetic and electromagnetic currents". The Q-Ray is on the wrists of Gary Player, pros in other sports. The majority experienced relief from stiff joints, achy muscles, or other ailments (a few said it improved their swing). But most thought the bracelet was more attractive than the copper bands and were happy it didn’t leave a green stain on their wrists". I am astounded to think how a magic braclet could balance your biomagnetic and electromagnetic currents – what utter utter bullsh*t. The only advantage that I can see is that they don’t leave a green stain on your wrist. My advice to cure this would be to stop wearing a copper bracelet – it’s the cheapest and most effective way to stop the stain and it may improve your swing and may cure your bad back and may cure your headaches etc. Note that 99% of all golfers who abondon their copper bracelets feel instant relief. Ok I’ll stop and sorry for hijacking what was supposed to be a sensible thread. Please don’t reply to this thread anyone except if you can answer the original question.

Response:

I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? Thanks — Markus

It works on a principle discovered many years ago. It’s called something like – "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Response:

Zponge — Let’s not be too cynical, the copper bracelet I’ve been wearing has made a big difference for me, and a lot of people think that they are bullshit, so it is possible that some of these things work — although I don’t doubt that most don’t. Markus

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? Thanks — Markus It works on a principle discovered many years ago. It’s called something like – "a fool and his money are easily parted".

Response:

I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work? Thanks — Markus

Response:

I’ve gotten some pretty bad tennis elbow from golf (I understand tennis elbow is on the outside of the arm, golfer’s elbow is on the inside) and I’ve been wearing a copper bracelet, which has helped a lot — but it still hurts sometimes. I just discovered that the fellow I take golf lessons from wears a Q-Ray bracelet, and he swears by it. Has anyone tried one of these, and if so, how did it work?

I hurt a lot too. But there’s no way I am going to look like I’m superstitious or that I believe every miracle cure out there. When something really works we will know.

Response:

Annika on 60 Minutes

admin — Fri, 11 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

ARNOLD PALMER: Oh, if he wins? That’s pretty damn high. As far as history is concerned and performances, I put it very close to Nelson’s performances. And I don’t know that there’s anything that I can say about golf that bests what Byron did. Do you know exactly what he was referring to? Eleven in a row? Eighteen in a year?

Both, I think – but more specifically, eleven in a row. If you check the link, the whole interview’s there. Todd McGillivray – http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net "How can you know anything about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight?" — Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Response:

In no way was I complaining about Tiger being nice.

Tiger isn’t *that* nice. When asked about Mickelson who’d left the tournament to be with his wife while she was having their latest sprog, Tiger said "he’s breastfeeding." That’s nasty in several different ways. –Blair "His girlfriend, on the other hand…"

Response:

I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it.

Have you ever watched NHL interviews?

Response:

I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it. Have you ever watched NHL interviews?

If you ever watched one, you’ve watched them all. Very similar to basketball interviews, but with fewer teeth and more stitches. — Spam sink email address, sorry

Response:

ARNOLD PALMER: Oh, if he wins? That’s pretty damn high. As far as history is concerned and performances, I put it very close to Nelson’s performances. And I don’t know that there’s anything that I can say about golf that bests what Byron did.

Do you know exactly what he was referring to? Eleven in a row? Eighteen in a year?

Response:

Brent, isn’t that Tiger? ;) Right, but never in an interview.

Arnie trotted out a ‘bullshit’ at his official press conference on Wednesday – I was so proud. Q. If Tiger should win his third straight Masters this week, what are your thoughts on where that would rank as an historical accomplishment? ARNOLD PALMER: Oh, if he wins? That’s pretty damn high. As far as history is concerned and performances, I put it very close to Nelson’s performances. And I don’t know that there’s anything that I can say about golf that bests what Byron did. And somebody says, well, the fields were light. That’s bullshit. You’re still playing against 150 players and they’re good players and he played well. And he won a lot of golf tournaments. And that’s the way I feel. That this would come close to matching most of the great feats in golf. Link: http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?showad=Y&id=12050 I know who you mean, though. Some young Swedish? woman who won a tourney late last season, I think. Dropped a couple of "politically incorrect" expressions into her post-round TV interview, IIRC. I think she was Norweigan rather than Swedish. And I think it was a match in the Solheim Cup. First name Suzanne, last name Peterson or something else with a "P".

Suzann Pettersen. Norweigan. I’d like to play a round (note the space) with her, she sounds like a hell of a lot of fun. Plus, I’ve never met a Norweigan I haven’t liked… She later commented in the European media that she couldn’t believe a couple of F-bombs were a big deal in the US.

I can see her point…if you look at American entertainment as a group, a single F-bomb on TV shouldn’t be a big deal. I can’t remember the last movie I saw without a few bad words (oh, wait. Lilo and Stitch). Books are almost completely unregulated. Any kid could go into the library and get a copy of an acknowledged literary classic such as Catch-22 – and be praised for it. Music videos just insert sounds or cut off the vocal track during curse words, but are fine with the vocalist looking directly at the screen and mouthing the word. You’re even starting to see language in video games, which seems wrong (and that’s from someone who’s firmly in the Nintendo generation). But, hell, the best selling games involve carjacking and beating prostitutes. Anyway, when you throw in Norweigan/Swedish television (very few boundries, including full-frontal nudity and cursing), I can completely understand where she thought that a single slip would be okay… Todd McGillivray – http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net "How can you know anything about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight?" — Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just found out that Annika Sorenstram will be interviewed by Leslie Stahl this Sunday nite. Should be interesting!! I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it. You never know, though, maybe Annika will come out with something interesting. I’d rather see an interview with that player who used the F-word that time… Brent Hutto You are complaining about Tiger being too nice. But if he gave interviews like Warren Sap (who helped Tampa Bay win the Super Bowl this year, by the way), people would be all over him because of his brashness, etc.

Tim, don’t try to put words in my mouth. When I say there’s "just not much to it" I am criticising the practice of conducting interviews with people who are practiced in the art of revealing nothing in such interviews. In no way was I complaining about Tiger being nice. I sincerely wish everyone in the world were as polite as Tiger Woods, at least in public. I simply disagree with Eric’s assertion that there might be something interesting about a TV interview with a modern, IMG-coached golfer. Feel free to watch and wait for them to say something interesting but it’s just not going to happen. You are correct that if Tiger conducted himself like some of the jackasses in the NFL or NBA, I might criticise him for that. You don’t see too many professional golfers acting out like that. It must not play well with the demographic that supports their profession. Brent Hutto

Response:

I know who you mean, though. Some young Swedish? woman who won a tourney late last season, I think. Dropped a couple of "politically incorrect" expressions into her post-round TV interview, IIRC.

norwegian, Suzann Pettersen, in a post-Solheim Cup singles match interview (she came from 5 down with 5 to play IIRC to halve the match). K. Pitts would have a seizure watching her play…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just found out that Annika Sorenstram will be interviewed by Leslie Stahl this Sunday nite. Should be interesting!! I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it. You never know, though, maybe Annika will come out with something interesting. I’d rather see an interview with that player who used the F-word that time… Brent Hutto

You are complaining about Tiger being too nice. But if he gave interviews like Warren Sap (who helped Tampa Bay win the Super Bowl this year, by the way), people would be all over him because of his brashness, etc. tim

Response:

Brent, isn’t that Tiger? ;)

Right, but never in an interview. acknowledged. I know who you mean, though. Some young Swedish? woman who won a tourney late last season, I think. Dropped a couple of "politically incorrect" expressions into her post-round TV interview, IIRC.

I think she was Norweigan rather than Swedish. And I think it was a match in the Solheim Cup. First name Suzanne, last name Peterson or something else with a "P". She later commented in the European media that she couldn’t believe a couple of F-bombs were a big deal in the US. Brent Hutto

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just found out that Annika Sorenstram will be interviewed by Leslie Stahl this Sunday nite. Should be interesting!! I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it. You never know, though, maybe Annika will come out with something interesting. I’d rather see an interview with that player who used the F-word that time…

Brent, isn’t that Tiger? ;) I know who you mean, though. Some young Swedish? woman who won a tourney late last season, I think. Dropped a couple of "politically incorrect" expressions into her post-round TV interview, IIRC. Dave

Response:

Just found out that Annika Sorenstram will be interviewed by Leslie Stahl this Sunday nite. Should be interesting!!

I dunno. Annika seems to have perfected the modern art of giving interviews with answers designed to be so bland that no one might take offense. Sort of like watching interviews with Tiger Woods these past few years. Unless you enjoy seeing him smile politely, there’s just not much to it. You never know, though, maybe Annika will come out with something interesting. I’d rather see an interview with that player who used the F-word that time… Brent Hutto

Response:

Just found out that Annika Sorenstram will be interviewed by Leslie Stahl this Sunday nite. Should be interesting!! Eric

Response:

Tour dates for 2004

admin — Wed, 02 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m glad you have the wherewithal to disregard time/daylight and the flexibility that seemingly lets you play whenever you want or do everyday tasks without a clock or schedule. Most of us don’t. I’m more likely to get an evening of 9/18 holes in April-May, August-September because of daylight savings time. Essentially adds four quality months to my golf season. Not to mention the added practice time in the evenings after work. Last time I checked it was hard follow a golf ball in the dark. DST must throw off all those 5:30 a.m. tee times you’ve been enjoying since March?

On weekends it doesn’t matter. If my clock now says 8:00 instead of 7:00 when I tee off – what’s the big deal? It really is the same time – only now we agree to lie about it. But if you have time to play after work, then someone else has time to play before work. Giving you more time takes time away from him. This lie doesn’t hurt. But it doesn’t help either. So why lie?

Response:

The way I remembered it is that The Masters is always held the first weekend after Daylight Savings Time goes into effect. I remember a couple of years ago that DST went into effect on March 30 or 31st and the Masters was like the 4-8th or 5-9th of April. Randy’s way of figuring it out seems logical to me. I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-)

I believe the "rule" for the Masters is that the final round is played on the 2nd Sunday in April. I was told this some time ago, but haven’t gone back to the records to see if it’s correct.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are correct, of course, Howard, that DST doesn’t give you "more" daylight. But for those of us who don’t know that 6:00 comes twice a day, the switch to daylight savings is a huge plus, at least in terms of golf and any other outdoor activities. Personally, I like Rob Hamilton’s take on it. He calls Standard Time "Daylight Elimination Time." Randy —- never does 7 AM tee times if at all avoidable PS … A few years ago, I had the opportunity to move to Nashville. I much prefer the Central Time Zone over Eastern Time. I consider Eastern Time the work of the devil (news comes on an hour later, Letterman doesn’t come on ’til 11:30, etc.). So there was some appeal for me to live in Nashville. However, once I stopped to realize that it was on the eastern edge of the time zone, I realized that it meant darkness at around 8:15 even in the middle of summer, and sunset as early as around 4:00 in the winter. Fuggetaboudit. Daylight rules.

Move your studio to Dornoch for the summer months, Randy. Daylight until 11pm !! Mind you, you can start play around 4am, but somehow I would think that that time wouldn’t appeal to you…:-) — David Hi-Tech Turf – Synthetic Turf Applications RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca

Response:

The PGA Championship is NOT a Tour event????

Nope. Neither is the Masters Tournament, the US Open or the British Open. Each is run by an organization other than the PGA TOUR. In the case of the PGA Championship, it’s run by the PGA of America. People constantly get the PGA of America confused with the PGA TOUR, and commonly use the term "PGA" interchangably. They’re two separate organizations. A little history lesson: In 1895, 10 professional golfers and one amateur played in the first US Open in Newport, RI. Shortly thereafter, tournaments began to pop up across the country. There was the Western Open in 1899. But this was not "tour" golf, as the events lacked continuity. Interest in the game grew. By the early 1920s, a series of tournaments was held on the West Coast, Texas and Florida. These events were held in the winter, and the golfers played their way east and up to Pinehurst in the spring. By the middle 1920s, this "tour" was doing relatively well, offering $77,000 in total prize money. The first "playing pros" organization was formed in 1932. Two years earlier, Bob Harlow had been named manager of the PGA Tournament Bureau. The tour became more structured following World War II and exploded in the late 1950s and early 1960s. When Arnold Palmer, televised golf and President Eisenhower arrived on the scene in the late ’50s, the eyes of the world were on golf. This expoure inspired millions to try the game. Most golf historians trace the "formal" beginning of the PGA TOUR to late 1968, when the Association of Professional Golfers (APG), an autonomous tournament players’ organization, formed in a breakaway from the PGA. As a compromise, the Tournament Players Division of the PGA formed under the aegis of a 10-man policay board. Eventually the Tournament Players Division broke away completely from the PGA, and named Joe Dey as its first Commissioner. Records get a little fuzzy at this time, and it is unclear exactly what the chonology was concerning the breakaway, but the best guess is that the Tournament Players Division (later known as the PGA TOUR) broke cleanly away from the PGA in 1968. Joe Dey served as Commissioner beginning in 1969, and was succeeded by Deane Beman on March 1, 1974. Beman orchestrated the move of PGA TOUR headquarters from Washington, DC to Ponte Vedra Beach, FL in1979. TOUR headquarters remains there today. So, it’s been quite a while since the PGA of America and the PGA TOUR were distinctly separate organizations. While the PGA TOUR clearly has its roots in the PGA of America, the two organizations have existed separately and for totally different missions for over 30 years. The PGA of America is known mainly as the organization for club professionals, while the PGA TOUR is an organizations that stages a series of professional tournaments for touring pros. None of golf’s major championships are run by the PGA TOUR. The Masters is owned and operated by Augusta National Golf Club. The US Open is owned and operated by the USGA. The British Open is owned and operated by the Royal & Ancient Golf Club of St. Andrews. You have to go down golf’s pecking order to "the 5th major" to find one owned and operated by the PGA TOUR — THE PLAYERS Championship. Randy

Response:

You are correct, of course, Howard, that DST doesn’t give you "more" daylight. But for those of us who don’t know that 6:00 comes twice a day, the switch to daylight savings is a huge plus, at least in terms of golf and any other outdoor activities. Personally, I like Rob Hamilton’s take on it. He calls Standard Time "Daylight Elimination Time." Randy —- never does 7 AM tee times if at all avoidable PS … A few years ago, I had the opportunity to move to Nashville. I much prefer the Central Time Zone over Eastern Time. I consider Eastern Time the work of the devil (news comes on an hour later, Letterman doesn’t come on ’til 11:30, etc.). So there was some appeal for me to live in Nashville. However, once I stopped to realize that it was on the eastern edge of the time zone, I realized that it meant darkness at around 8:15 even in the middle of summer, and sunset as early as around 4:00 in the winter. Fuggetaboudit. Daylight rules.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-) I always welcome The Masters. But letting the clock rule me instead of the other way around was never an attraction. We don’t get more daylight when we change our clocks. We just pick different times to go to work or watch TV, and pretend they are the same times. As golfers we know when the sun rises and sets anyway.

Response:

That April 2-8 week is a bit misleading. The tournament only runs 4 days, so the actual play is only the 5th-8th. Masters Week, by this chart, starts on a Monday. That would still make sense. The first Sunday of the month of April is when Daylight Savings kicks in. The Masters ALWAYS is played in the week following the beginning of Daylight Savings. I guarantee it. Could have been different years ago. In fact, I’m sure it was. Heck, I’m old enough to remember when we didn’t go to DST. Randy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Masters always ends on the second Sunday in April. Not necessarily. See below. Check out the dates for 2007! That’ll be an early start to DST if Randy’s theory holds true. http://www.masters.org/en_US/info/faq/index.html 5.Q.I’m making plans for 2003; what are those Tournament dates? A.Future dates for the Masters are: 2004 April 5-11 2005 April 4-10 2006 April 3-9 2007 April 2-8 2008 April 7-13 — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. The Masters dates for 2004 will probably be up at masters.org well before the TOUR announces its next year’s schedule (usually around September-October-November of the previous year). BTW, The Masters is not an official TOUR event, even though it is used for stats, money, exemptions, etc. If fact, not of the four majors are PGA TOUR events. They are all run/sanctioned by separate organizations. The PGA Championship is NOT a Tour event????

Nope. It’s run by the PGA of America which is not the same entity as the PGA Tour (which splintered off from the PGA of America many years ago). http://www.pga.com/ — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/charter.html If this post does not meet the goals of the charter, please email me.

Response:

I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-) I always welcome The Masters. But letting the clock rule me instead of the other way around was never an attraction. We don’t get more daylight when we change our clocks. We just pick different times to go to work or watch TV, and pretend they are the same times. As golfers we know when the sun rises and sets anyway.

Boy Howard, and I thought I was cynical. :-) Are you one of those that gets screwed twice/year by forgetting to change your clock? Move to Arizona. :-) I’m glad you have the wherewithal to disregard time/daylight and the flexibility that seemingly lets you play whenever you want or do everyday tasks without a clock or schedule. Most of us don’t. I’m more likely to get an evening of 9/18 holes in April-May, August-September because of daylight savings time. Essentially adds four quality months to my golf season. Not to mention the added practice time in the evenings after work. Last time I checked it was hard follow a golf ball in the dark. DST must throw off all those 5:30 a.m. tee times you’ve been enjoying since March? — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

Response:

– Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-) I always welcome The Masters. But letting the clock rule me instead of the other way around was never an attraction. We don’t get more daylight when we change our clocks. We just pick different times to go to work or watch TV, and pretend they are the same times. As golfers we know when the sun rises and sets anyway.

Response:

I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-) I always welcome The Masters. But letting the clock rule me instead of the other way around was never an attraction. We don’t get more daylight when we change our clocks. We just pick different times to go to work or watch TV, and pretend they are the same times. As golfers we know when the sun rises and sets anyway.

Ben Franklin, in a statement which would get him hanged by the PC crowd today, stated that the principle of daylight savings time is the same as the Indian who cut a foot off of his blanket and sewed it on the other end to make it longer. -JR

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I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-)

I always welcome The Masters. But letting the clock rule me instead of the other way around was never an attraction. We don’t get more daylight when we change our clocks. We just pick different times to go to work or watch TV, and pretend they are the same times. As golfers we know when the sun rises and sets anyway.

Response:

The way I remembered it is that The Masters is always held the first weekend after Daylight Savings Time goes into effect.

I remember a couple of years ago that DST went into effect on March 30 or 31st and the Masters was like the 4-8th or 5-9th of April. Randy’s way of figuring it out seems logical to me. I always consider Masters week to be Christmas in April for me as a golfer because you get (1) The Masters and (2) Daylight Savings Time! :-) — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

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The Masters always ends on the second Sunday in April. Not necessarily. See below.

Nix that…..I’m wrong. It does *end* on the 2nd Sunday. In 2007 the first Sunday in April is the 1st.

Response:

The Masters always ends on the second Sunday in April.

Not necessarily. See below. Check out the dates for 2007! That’ll be an early start to DST if Randy’s theory holds true. http://www.masters.org/en_US/info/faq/index.html 5.Q.I’m making plans for 2003; what are those Tournament dates? A.Future dates for the Masters are: 2004 April 5-11 2005 April 4-10 2006 April 3-9 2007 April 2-8 2008 April 7-13 — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

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Regardless. Spring forward on the first Sunday in April and fall back on the last Sunday in October. In 2001, DST started April 1 and the Masters was played April 5-8. In 2003, DST started April 7 and the Masters was played April 11-14

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The way I remembered it is that The Masters is always held the first weekend after Daylight Savings Time goes into effect. I guess I was under the impression that DST went into effect on "the first Sunday after the first Saturday," meaning that if April 1st fell on a Sunday (and the previous day was March 31), then DST wouldn’t go into effect until the 8th, and the Masters would be the week after that. Am I wrong about DST? Does DST, in fact, go into effect on the first Sunday in April regardless of whether it’s on the 1st day of the month? I could be wrong. Happens all the time.

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The way I remembered it is that The Masters is always held the first weekend after Daylight Savings Time goes into effect. I guess I was under the impression that DST went into effect on "the first Sunday after the first Saturday," meaning that if April 1st fell on a Sunday (and the previous day was March 31), then DST wouldn’t go into effect until the 8th, and the Masters would be the week after that. Am I wrong about DST? Does DST, in fact, go into effect on the first Sunday in April regardless of whether it’s on the 1st day of the month? I could be wrong. Happens all the time.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. The Masters always ends on the second Sunday in April.

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It’s always the second week of April, isn’t it? I know that the Buick Open got moved and will always be at the end of july. Desi

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. Thanks for any help. Haydn.

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Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. The Masters dates for 2004 will probably be up at masters.org well before the TOUR announces its next year’s schedule (usually around September-October-November of the previous year). BTW, The Masters is not an official TOUR event, even though it is used for stats, money, exemptions, etc. If fact, not of the four majors are PGA TOUR events. They are all run/sanctioned by separate organizations.

The PGA Championship is NOT a Tour event????

Response:

The TOUR never announces its schedule until very late in the year, usually not until after the final official event of the year is held (the TOUR Championship, usually around the first of November). However, there’s an easy way to remember the dates for The Masters. They’re the same every year. The Masters is always held on the first weekend in April AFTER Daylight Savings Time goes into effect.

Thanks for reminding me that I still have to wait two weeks for daylight elimination time to END. :^( Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 )

Response:

The PGA Championship is run by the PGA of America. The PGA Tour recognizes the PGA Championship as an official event but does not run the event. The PGA Tour is a different organization that split off from the PGA of America about forty year ago.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. The Masters dates for 2004 will probably be up at masters.org well before the TOUR announces its next year’s schedule (usually around September-October-November of the previous year). BTW, The Masters is not an official TOUR event, even though it is used for stats, money, exemptions, etc. If fact, not of the four majors are PGA TOUR events. They are all run/sanctioned by separate organizations. The PGA Championship is NOT a Tour event????

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Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. Thanks for any help. Haydn.

Response:

Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held.

The Masters dates for 2004 will probably be up at masters.org well before the TOUR announces its next year’s schedule (usually around September-October-November of the previous year). BTW, The Masters is not an official TOUR event, even though it is used for stats, money, exemptions, etc. If fact, not of the four majors are PGA TOUR events. They are all run/sanctioned by separate organizations. Here it is… http://www.masters.org/en_US/info/faq/index.html 5.Q.I’m making plans for 2003; what are those Tournament dates? A.Future dates for the Masters are: 2004 April 5-11 2005 April 4-10 2006 April 3-9 2007 April 2-8 2008 April 7-13 — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

Response:

Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held.

The Masters always ends on the second Sunday in April.

Response:

The TOUR never announces its schedule until very late in the year, usually not until after the final official event of the year is held (the TOUR Championship, usually around the first of November). However, there’s an easy way to remember the dates for The Masters. They’re the same every year. The Masters is always held on the first weekend in April AFTER Daylight Savings Time goes into effect. This Sunday: Spring Forward. The next Sunday: Final Round at The Masters. Randy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know when the PGA tour dates for 2004 are announced ? Specifically, when is the 2004 Masters being held. Thanks for any help. Haydn.

Response:

Why is Ernie Els…

admin — Sun, 09 Mar 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I seriously doubt that most radical muslims know anything about golf, let along Tiger Woods. The US media doesn’t have much impact in Saudui Arabia or Syria. IF they wanted to go after "the big golf topurnament" they would have; TW or no TW.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if threats were made on Augusta National. I wonder if Jesse would pull out? He’s never pulled out before.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob Els is from South Africa, Woods from the USA. Just in case some don’t know, Dubai is in the Mid-East. It’s directly south of Iran across the Arabian Gulf. Terrorism scares are at a great height and a war is brewing in the area. Now, try *really hard* to think about what fears which of them might have in going to Dubai this week. Amazing the hysterical response to even the slightest criticism of Woods, even in response to a sophomoric statement about another athlete. Of course Mark O’meara played in Dubai…. Rob Not hysteria, Rob, but common sense. Do you really think that O’Meara has the recognition factor of Tiger? Sophomoric is being blind to reality…and you’re proving that over and over. Even Pitts said that he didn’t blame Tiger for not playing in Dubai. You see, Rob, Tiger is the best golfer in the world and you just can’t handle that.

I seriously doubt that most radical muslims know anything about golf, let along Tiger Woods. The US media doesn’t have much impact in Saudui Arabia or Syria. IF they wanted to go after "the big golf topurnament" they would have; TW or no TW. I’m amazed that anyone would think I care that much about wheather TW is the best golfer in the world, although as stated earleir, the loony hyseteria about someone daring to not "like Tiger" is a little amazing to me, especially comming from someone who’s been around, like say you for example. Who gives a rip? TW doesn’t do anything for me but entertain me with some golf when the weather sucks on the weekend. I found GFuryk and Hoch as entertaining as any other golfers on sunday. Golf is golf to me. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob Els is from South Africa, Woods from the USA. Just in case some don’t know, Dubai is in the Mid-East. It’s directly south of Iran across the Arabian Gulf. Terrorism scares are at a great height and a war is brewing in the area. Now, try *really hard* to think about what fears which of them might have in going to Dubai this week. Amazing the hysterical response to even the slightest criticism of Woods, even in response to a sophomoric statement about another athlete. Of course Mark O’meara played in Dubai…. Rob

Not hysteria, Rob, but common sense. Do you really think that O’Meara has the recognition factor of Tiger? Sophomoric is being blind to reality…and you’re proving that over and over. Even Pitts said that he didn’t blame Tiger for not playing in Dubai. You see, Rob, Tiger is the best golfer in the world and you just can’t handle that. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.

Response:

It was about Money. Tiger pulls out and leaves 2 Million barrels on the table. Ernie hears of it, and lets the organizers know that his original 400k barrels is a bit short of what he needs. The Arabs up the deal to 1.6 Million barrels–esentially giving Ernie the crude that was available for Tiger. In the end–Ernie gets Tiger’s black gold. Who wins?

Robert-Jan Derksen "Not even ranked in the top 3,000 in the world" it says here: http://www.golfweb.com/u/ce/multi/0,1977,6239156,00.html Now he’s got a 2-year exemption. –Blair "Hey! I’m not even ranked in the top 3,000! Put *me* in, coach!"

Response:

Ernie Els is scared of Tiger because Tiger has black skin and Ernie Els is from Africa but he doesn’t have black skin so it is confusing to Ernie. Ernie plays with a white ball because of this confusion.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

Response:

You’ve violated the RSG charter by criticizing Woods. Turn in your mouse and keyboard at your local ISP. Annika has gone so far as to suggest I have repressed memories because I dared to suggest that Els seems to be firing on all cyliders so far this year. He lost at the match play, but no whining or carrying on or ducking the press when he did lose. Took it like a man. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob Els is from South Africa, Woods from the USA. Just in case some don’t know, Dubai is in the Mid-East. It’s directly south of Iran across the Arabian Gulf. Terrorism scares are at a great height and a war is brewing in the area. Now, try *really hard* to think about what fears which of them might have in going to Dubai this week. Amazing the hysterical response to even the slightest criticism of Woods, even in response to a sophomoric statement about another athlete. Of course Mark O’meara played in Dubai…. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

Who says I have any repressed memories ? 18 holes and you’re out in that deal. I seem to recall that Tiger has lost in the first round of that event. Could happen to anyone, from 1 to 64. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob Els is from South Africa, Woods from the USA. Just in case some don’t know, Dubai is in the Mid-East. It’s directly south of Iran across the Arabian Gulf. Terrorism scares are at a great height and a war is brewing in the area. Now, try *really hard* to think about what fears which of them might have in going to Dubai this week.

Amazing the hysterical response to even the slightest criticism of Woods, even in response to a sophomoric statement about another athlete. Of course Mark O’meara played in Dubai…. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

I don’t blame anyone at all for skipping that event. Especially Tiger. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – About all that can be said about that is that the US State Department contacted Tiger Woods and advised him not to go to Dubai, stating that such a high-profile American athlete competiting in a high profile event in the Arab Emerites might be a target. Of course one would assume that might have been true last year, too, but with war looming and weighing heavily on everyone’s minds right now, the government persuaded Tiger not to go. Randy Voice acting for commercials, voiceovers for industrial narrations, training videos, "on-hold" messaging, radio and TV station imaging. Audio production. Find "aural satisfaction" at www.randybrown.us. Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

It was Tiger who pulled out of the Dubai exhibition [oops, err "tournament"].

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

Response:

? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob

It was about Money. Tiger pulls out and leaves 2 Million barrels on the table. Ernie hears of it, and lets the organizers know that his original 400k barrels is a bit short of what he needs. The Arabs up the deal to 1.6 Million barrels–esentially giving Ernie the crude that was available for Tiger. In the end–Ernie gets Tiger’s black gold. Who wins?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob

Els is from South Africa, Woods from the USA. Just in case some don’t know, Dubai is in the Mid-East. It’s directly south of Iran across the Arabian Gulf. Terrorism scares are at a great height and a war is brewing in the area. Now, try *really hard* to think about what fears which of them might have in going to Dubai this week. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.

Response:

Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when the

Robert-Jan Derksen says "Hi."

Response:

Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory?

Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

About all that can be said about that is that the US State Department contacted Tiger Woods and advised him not to go to Dubai, stating that such a high-profile American athlete competiting in a high profile event in the Arab Emerites might be a target. Of course one would assume that might have been true last year, too, but with war looming and weighing heavily on everyone’s minds right now, the government persuaded Tiger not to go. Randy Voice acting for commercials, voiceovers for industrial narrations, training videos, "on-hold" messaging, radio and TV station imaging. Audio production. Find "aural satisfaction" at www.randybrown.us.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory? Ernie played in Dubai, Tiger did not. Who’s afraid….. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)

Response:

i dont think he is anymore stay tuned this year

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

Response:

Who says he is ? Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks. You may not be aware that Enie is defending champion of the Open Championship and that Tiger was certainly in the field. He couldn’t have been too frightened. Ken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

Response:

scared of Tiger?

The dumbest question of the year on this news group…and it’s only March. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.

Response:

scared of Tiger?

Some golfers may feel beaten before they begin when they are playing a tournament with Tiger and Tiger is on his game. But Tiger carries 14 clubs like everbody else, so nobody is *scared* of him. If he had 13 clubs and a shotgun in that bag, maybe then they’d be scared.

Response:

Ernie has it dialed in right now. Let’s see how it turns out when they finally do get in the same field, maybe the Players Championship in a couple of weeks.

Or the World Match Play last week. Is that one now part of your repressed memory?

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scared of Tiger?

Response:

Would you care to explain why you think Els is sacred of Tiger or are you trying for the world record for the fewest words in a troll?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

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looks like it was Tiger who ducked Ernie, not the other way around. Lets see

Response:

Wasn’t it Tiger who ducked out of the Tournament in Dubai this weekend? Ernie played in it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – scared of Tiger?

Response:

scared of Tiger?

Professional golfers are not scared of other professional golfers. Show me evidence that Ernie or anybody else is "afraid " of Tiger Woods. Give me a break. This is golf. Its as individual a game as there is. You play the course, not another player.Tiger is the best golfer in the world right now. Every golfer in the world knows this and would tell you this. My impression of Ernie is of a young man with loads of talent who loves to play on every continent. And he loves those appearance fees. He also likes private jets, yachts, fine wine and exotic ports of call. He also knows that his best game will not beat Tiger’s best game. I’m looking forward to the President’s cup, where Ernie and Tiger will get to square off in match play. If they aren’t paired off against each other in that competition, then I’ll be the first to say that Ernie is afraid of Tiger.

Response: