Question:
Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological
improvement over thinking. Let everyone use titanium drivers and call it a tecnological improvement over practicing FREDDY IN NJ
Response:
The PGA got bad legal advice from their high-priced lawyers, who I guess are the best and brightest from Harvard and Yale Law Schools. The PGA is an association. Associations, regardless of whether they are private or public, are under Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act law. (Title I covers employment and there is no affirmative action/quota requirements. Title II covers local and state governments, regardless of whether they get federal funding assistance. Title IV covers the Telecommunications Relay Service (TRS), a sort of hearing voice-to-TTY-voice service for the dead and hard-of-hearing. TRS gets no tax dollars and it is paid for by your phone bill – look for the 10 cents or more. Your phone book under TRS or Relay Center or Telecommunications can explain more). Private clubs with bona fide membership clubs are exempt from the ADA except to the extent that facilities are made available to customers or patrons of a place of public accommodations (42 U.S.C. $12187). The Tour’s argument that it was not a private entity was overlooked is that private country clubs are exempt. If Casey Martin was deaf, PGA will have to provide two certified and qualified sign language interpreters to alternate and the cost is like 85 dollars for up to 2 hours; provided a TDD (about $200) at each PGA tournamemt places; and hopefully find some sponsors to pay for closed-captioning if the PGA event is show on TV. All are tax deductible through the Disabled Access Credit (IRS Form 8826) which the PGA can use for the cart. Mike Yared
Response:
Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological improvement over thinking.
Bad analogy. AI is not yet sufficiently developed to fit this role. B. Martin
Response:
I beg to differ. Artificial Intelligence technologies can allow a player to more accurately determine the affects of wind, moisture, humidity, elevation and other factors relegated to the realm of ‘thinking’. Most technological advances along these lines are currently forbidden in the game. Examples include range finders. Good analogy. -Sean – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological improvement over thinking. Bad analogy. AI is not yet sufficiently developed to fit this role. B. Martin
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological improvement over thinking. Bad analogy. AI is not yet sufficiently developed to fit this role. B. Martin
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological improvement over thinking. Bad analogy. AI is not yet sufficiently developed to fit this role. B. Martin
A cart being a "technological improvement in walking" is any better? One carts, all cart. Yeah, turn the PGA upside-down for the benefit of a "touchy-feely" pull-at-the-heart-strings story of woe. Sorry, I disagree. Is that more pointed? Eric J.
Response:
Bravo Rusty! The whole attraction of watching the PGA on TV or in person is ball striking, not how well the professionals walk from tee to green. The PGA is indeed taking a stand on this issue that is totally off base. They really are crossing the line and should be called on this violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. The PGA one the hand provides millions of dollars for charity and medical research, then on the other say we can’t have disabled people playing golf on tour. Wow! Is this the message they want us to hear? If their position is exactly what I am saying, I don’t think I would nor would many other fans who know or who themselves may be siabled care to watch these events sponsored by such a cold and elitist organization. Now that the "color" barrier is broken, they need another glass ceiling to keep someone else out. My comments only. The real answers are to be decided in the courts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second, to the golf purist argument, arguing against a cart is NOT arguing against technological improvements. Technological improvements are available to everyone, but the use of a cart is only available to Casey. That’s not fair. And that’s the true question here, fairness. Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin I’d like to expand on the "technology" theme brought up here..as we all know, golfcarts weren’t available over in scotland way back when, nor were stainless or graphite shafts. The idea of walking as being the stamina issue affecting the results is overplayed in my opinion. what did Arnie say years ago, it’s about 20% ability and 80% mental?..the object is not how far or well you walked, it’s how well, from tee to green you played. Granted, the walking takes something out of you, but what spectators are looking to see is not how well you’ve walked, but how well you have struck the ball..we’re moving into a new era of all kinds of "technology"..perhaps the carts would even speed up professional play….give each guy the option, and there is no issue anymore, whether you’re Freddie Couples or Joe Schmuck. The PGA is reachng down too deep into the "tradition" this time, forgetting that gutta percha has long gone away as has the wooden shaft. The PGA will lose this one for several reasons, not the least of which has to do with people with physical problems like Casey. I rest my case! Rusty Swenson
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Second, to the golf purist argument, arguing against a cart is NOT arguing against technological improvements. Technological improvements are available to everyone, but the use of a cart is only available to Casey. That’s not fair. And that’s the true question here, fairness. Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin
I’d like to expand on the "technology" theme brought up here..as we all know, golfcarts weren’t available over in scotland way back when, nor were stainless or graphite shafts. The idea of walking as being the stamina issue affecting the results is overplayed in my opinion. what did Arnie say years ago, it’s about 20% ability and 80% mental?..the object is not how far or well you walked, it’s how well, from tee to green you played. Granted, the walking takes something out of you, but what spectators are looking to see is not how well you’ve walked, but how well you have struck the ball..we’re moving into a new era of all kinds of "technology"..perhaps the carts would even speed up professional play….give each guy the option, and there is no issue anymore, whether you’re Freddie Couples or Joe Schmuck. The PGA is reachng down too deep into the "tradition" this time, forgetting that gutta percha has long gone away as has the wooden shaft. The PGA will lose this one for several reasons, not the least of which has to do with people with physical problems like Casey. I rest my case! Rusty Swenson
Response:
Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin
Let everyone use artificial intelligence and call it a technological improvement over thinking. Eric J.
Response:
Second, to the golf purist argument, arguing against a cart is NOT arguing against technological improvements. Technological improvements are available to everyone, but the use of a cart is only available to Casey. That’s not fair. And that’s the true question here, fairness.
Somebody is always the FIRST to use a technological improvement in a tournament. Does the first player always have to file suit to use an improvement? Let everybody use a cart and call it a technological improvement over walking. B. Martin
Response:
I want to outline my entire argument, for and against everything I’ve read about heretofore. First, the argument is whether or not Casey Martin should be allowed a cart for use during PGA Tour events. It seems to be the belief that, on the PGA TOUR, one of the abilities you need to be able to play is the ability to walk. Various fingers have been pointed at Craig Stadler, Jose Maria Olazabal and Fred Couples as competitors who would benefit greatly from use of a cart, if allowed. But the ability to walk the course is fundamental to having a level playing field, of ensureing the most equality available. Now, this should not prompt comments about "make them all play with the same set of clubs" or whatever, because there’s more to golf than how you strike a ball. Granted, Casey is a wonderful ball striker. He’s proven that on the Nike tour. But Professional Golfers need more than that. First, they need the endurance to walk 72 (or more) holes every week, plus practice time. Second, they need a MENTAL game. The pressure on a professional is unimaginable. I hate standing over a 20 foot put for par and $10, much less $200,000, and then having to answer for myself to the entire world if I miss. It’s a very real part of the game. Second, to the golf purist argument, arguing against a cart is NOT arguing against technological improvements. Technological improvements are available to everyone, but the use of a cart is only available to Casey. That’s not fair. And that’s the true question here, fairness. And life isn’t fair – Casey’s condition that might preclude him from making a living on the PGA tour IS NOT FAIR. But the PGA tour should be. I just wanted to get all of this in one post. Let the flame wars begin!!! Josh Donelson