I think Jake should give up his unplugged show, get his ass into a gym, shut his mouth and try a little quality golf.
Hehehe! Bingo. Another loudmouth, that Jake fella… — Cheers Nuno Souto
And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days. And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were…
Actually he was a defensive back at Colorado. rw
Rhoden played in the Sr. Tour Qualifying School this past year and did not make it. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Two stroke penalty Rob Rick Rhoden born 5-16-53 age 49. And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days. Rob
– GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)
Two stroke penalty Rob Rick Rhoden born 5-16-53 age 49. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days. Rob
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He was a standout linebacker. In fact University of Colorado still has a Hale Irwin award for the most outstanding defensive back. I don’t want to split hairs here, but a linebacker is not a defensive back. I believe Irwin was a defensive back. All- Big 8 (at that time). May as well pick the nit! A back is a back isn’t it? Either you are on the line or you are not; correct? So a linebacker is a back. Rob
You will not find a linebacker getting the Hale Irwin award at Colorado. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.
I watched that yesterday. And I have to wonder something. With enough practice, could virtually anyone become as good as the pro’s or do the pros possess something (from birth, perhaps?) that an average person cannot attain no matter how much practice and training they receive?
There are a handful of "late bloomers" in the pro ranks but by and large these guys were groomed from an early age. I think that and gene’s are the keys. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Most of us would piss ourselves during this event. Elway could prob. have played other sports professionally. I think he had a opp. to play MLB and went with football. He is an fine athlete. I do not buy the 2 handicap but whatever, maybe he makes all his putts. I think he has felt a little more pressure than this contest in his life. He was expect to finish last and give some spice to the event. I did not see the first day but watched all of the second day and did not see a 2 handicapper there. I think Jake should give up his unplugged show, get his ass into a gym, shut his mouth and try a little quality golf. Tyron showed some skills. Last years pressure and being sick did not help him out. Mark O is a fine golfer, love to watch him play and hope he wins again soon. Same with Faldo and Price. I liked the mix with the young guns and the veterans. Elway did a fine job. I like this event, I wish they had a two man team deal, or had to hole out from there best attempt in a given event to qualify it. Golf does require you to put the ball in the hole. Wyzyguy
I thought Elway almost won one of the challenges. I think if John had devoted as much time to golf at an early age as he did to football he could have been on tour. But he would have made a lot less money that he did in football.
Almost won _one_ of the challenges? Big deal, just about anyone could do that, it only takes ONE good (or lucky) shot. IMHO it’d be more interesting and challenging if they counted your second best shot. Probably just about anyone could be on tour if they devoted as much time to it as Elway devoted to football. The limiting factor probably isn’t some inborn talent, but the will and the drive to actually devote such a large portion of your life to one thing. If you were born as Tiger’s clone, with all his physical attributes but didn’t have his drive that made him devote his life to golf, you’d just another pretty good golfer who would have one win in the Cow Pasture GC club championship as the highlight of his golfing career! — "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." — Mark Twain
Close – All-Big Eight defensive back.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were… I did not know that. Thanks for the insight. And I thought they were quarterbacks. And Irwin, I’m pretty sure he was not a linebacker.
What are you smoking? Elway may not have PGA Tour golf skills, but he certainly has the mental toughness. Sixteen years in the NFL, forty-seven fourth quarter drives to win or tie games. ESPN still shows "the Drive" – 98 yards late in the fourth quarter to tie a playoff game at Cleveland in January, 1986 when Ty Tryon was 1 1/2 years old.
There are lots of different styles of toughness. A lot of these are related to motivation. I am a big Elway fan – but I don’t know if he has tour level toughness. In his tournament they list money earnings, and everybody has a $ amount except for John who is listed as amateur. He has retired with the most wins – and the most sacks in the history of the NFL, and has family, business, & charity interests which may preclude him from having the right style of toughness. That said, people question whether Mickelson has the same toughness – he also puts his family first. But enough skill can still make someone the #1 contender in the world.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were… I did not know that. Thanks for the insight. And I thought they were quarterbacks. We were comparing different sports – so I inserted a bit of humor. And Irwin, I’m pretty sure he was not a linebacker. He was a standout linebacker. In fact University of Colorado still has a Hale Irwin award for the most outstanding defensive back.
NOT a linebacker, a defensive back. Not a lot of 6′0", 180 pound, linebackers in division 1a college football.
He was a standout linebacker. In fact University of Colorado still has a Hale Irwin award for the most outstanding defensive back.
I don’t want to split hairs here, but a linebacker is not a defensive back. I believe Irwin was a defensive back. All- Big 8 (at that time).
He was a standout linebacker. In fact University of Colorado still has a Hale Irwin award for the most outstanding defensive back. I don’t want to split hairs here, but a linebacker is not a defensive back. I believe Irwin was a defensive back. All- Big 8 (at that time).
May as well pick the nit! A back is a back isn’t it? Either you are on the line or you are not; correct? So a linebacker is a back. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)
What are you smoking? Elway may not have PGA Tour golf skills, but he certainly has the mental toughness. Sixteen years in the NFL, forty-seven fourth quarter drives to win or tie games. ESPN still shows "the Drive" – 98 yards late in the fourth quarter to tie a playoff game at Cleveland in January, 1986 when Ty Tryon was 1 1/2 years old. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The difference between Elway and the pros was not just the 2 shots in his handicap…it’s more like 6 or 7 shots. Then there is the pressure of cameras and galleries, old stuff for Faldo, Jake et al, but very unusual for an amateur, even one of Elway’s profile. Elway did ok….but I’ll bet he was VERY nervous. He hit one decent shot, the long iron. Every other shot was just ok, or worse. He made one of the putts, but most of us could make one too, or come close after seeing it demoed a dozen times. However, good for Elway (an obvious NBC sponsor’s exemption) for showing up. — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."
And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were…
I did not know that. Thanks for the insight. And I thought they were quarterbacks. And Irwin, I’m pretty sure he was not a linebacker.
And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were… I did not know that. Thanks for the insight. And I thought they were quarterbacks.
We were comparing different sports – so I inserted a bit of humor. And Irwin, I’m pretty sure he was not a linebacker.
He was a standout linebacker. In fact University of Colorado still has a Hale Irwin award for the most outstanding defensive back.
And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days.
And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were…
And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days. And Irwin was a much better linebacker in college than either Elway or Brodie were…
Nicklaus was no slouch either, but Woody wouldn’t let him play football at OSU. Go Bucks! Hurricane Season is OVER!!! Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)
Pro golfers truly are amazing athletes! I watched that yesterday. And I have to wonder something. With enough practice, could virtually anyone become as good as the pro’s or do the pros possess something (from birth, perhaps?) that an average person cannot attain no matter how much practice and training they receive?
I think a certain amount of athletic talent is inherited, certainly. For example, there are people with certain birth defects that will never become great golfers no matter what training. To a lessor degree, most of us don’t have what it takes to be a pro athlete. However, I think golf is more attainable to the average person than most other sports because it is based primarily on skill, not physical strength or size. I think people with average or above athletic skill who have, for example, played high school sports at the varsity level, can get good at most of the skills shown in that show if they get instruction and practice a lot. The big exceptions might be driving the ball and hitting long irons, but most of the other skills (short game) are attainable by the average Joe, given enough work and desire. The pros, however, have to put the complete package together, all the skills, plus the mental game, game management, and being able to afford it. There is really not that much difference, on a shot by shot basis, between the skills shown by a pro golfer and that of a scratch handicap player. The pro is just able to more consistently display those skills.
Yes, John Brodie also demonstrated that a couple decades ago… However, per this latest data, Elway will likely do as well as Jacobsen should they both do the senior tour…
And what did Brodie do? Get on the Sr. Tour? Win maybe 1 event? How many has Ell Trevino won, with a very odd swing? How many has Hale Irwin won? Comparing Brodie to Irwin or Trevino is abisurd. How many majors has Brodie won? None? Rick Rhoden is much better than Elway (as shown by records in the celebrity tour), and he can’t get on the Sr. tour these days. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge…I will only initiate golf related threads) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~frostback2002)
The Skills Challenge, consisting of players like O’Meara, Jake, Ty Tyron, Faldo, Price, Kuchar, and Stadler reconfirmed something to Basically, a suberb athlete like John Elway, sporting a 2 handicap, cannot hold the average pro’s lunchbucket. There was a significant chasm between his game and theirs in virtually all the various challenges….putting, driving, bunkers, pitching over hazards, etc. Pro golfers truly are amazing athletes! -Greg
I thought Elway almost won one of the challenges. I think if John had devoted as much time to golf at an early age as he did to football he could have been on tour. But he would have made a lot less money that he did in football.
I thought Elway almost won one of the challenges. I think if John had devoted as much time to golf at an early age as he did to football he could have been on tour. But he would have made a lot less money that he did in football.
The difference between Elway and the pros was not just the 2 shots in his handicap…it’s more like 6 or 7 shots. Then there is the pressure of cameras and galleries, old stuff for Faldo, Jake et al, but very unusual for an amateur, even one of Elway’s profile. Elway did ok….but I’ll bet he was VERY nervous. He hit one decent shot, the long iron. Every other shot was just ok, or worse. He made one of the putts, but most of us could make one too, or come close after seeing it demoed a dozen times. However, good for Elway (an obvious NBC sponsor’s exemption) for showing up. — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."
The Skills Challenge, consisting of players like O’Meara, Jake, Ty Tyron, Faldo, Price, Kuchar, and Stadler reconfirmed something to Basically, a suberb athlete like John Elway, sporting a 2 handicap, cannot hold the average pro’s lunchbucket. There was a significant chasm between his game and theirs in virtually all the various challenges….putting, driving, bunkers, pitching over hazards, etc. Pro golfers truly are amazing athletes! -Greg
Pro golfers truly are amazing athletes!
I watched that yesterday. And I have to wonder something. With enough practice, could virtually anyone become as good as the pro’s or do the pros possess something (from birth, perhaps?) that an average person cannot attain no matter how much practice and training they receive? I wish I had game like they displayed….. Paul
Yes, John Brodie also demonstrated that a couple decades ago… However, per this latest data, Elway will likely do as well as Jacobsen should they both do the senior tour… As for pro golfers being "amazing athletes", I’d say that some are but many others are just skilled at golf and couldn’t run, jump, throw or catch better than most anyone else. Stadler an amazing athlete???? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Skills Challenge, consisting of players like O’Meara, Jake, Ty Tyron, Faldo, Price, Kuchar, and Stadler reconfirmed something to Basically, a suberb athlete like John Elway, sporting a 2 handicap, cannot hold the average pro’s lunchbucket. There was a significant chasm between his game and theirs in virtually all the various challenges….putting, driving, bunkers, pitching over hazards, etc. Pro golfers truly are amazing athletes!
Whoa…. I wasn’t expecting a story like that from a women. Bryan — Bryan Berguson RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=bergusonb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm
She’s very talented and likes to cause a good ruckas 
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm
That’s brilliant. I like the line that those who compare the issue to racism are racists; how true! Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html )
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm She’s very talented and likes to cause a good ruckas
Well, she’s certainly very talented at causing a good ruckus, beyond that I’m not real impressed. I’ll give her credit on this story, its the first one she didn’t blame Bill Clinton for something or other…. ;-) Lloyd
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm She’s very talented and likes to cause a good ruckas Well, she’s certainly very talented at causing a good ruckus, beyond that I’m not real impressed.
Since I’m not impressed you call stating facts "causing a good ruckus", I guess that makes two of us. I’ll give her credit on this story, its the first one she didn’t blame Bill Clinton for something or other…. ;-)
There’s plenty there that Slick Willie messed up. When she’s done with him, she’ll move on. But he did leave a ton of material for those who want to work with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lloyd
I’ll give her credit on this story, its the first one she didn’t blame Bill Clinton for something or other…. ;-) Lloyd
Lloyd, when you consider just how much BC did to help further liberal values and even less moral beliefs by his actions and behavior; And, that his own party wasn’t repulsed enough to ask for his resignation, I’d say he dodged a might big social bullet filled with co-dependance. Thank God, that there is at least a minority in the liberal media like Ann to keep his actions in the forfront for all to see.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm She’s very talented and likes to cause a good ruckas Well, she’s certainly very talented at causing a good ruckus, beyond that I’m not real impressed. Since I’m not impressed you call stating facts "causing a good ruckus", I guess that makes two of us.
She is not just ’stating facts’ usually, just like the liberally slanted editorialists, she has her own spin. Personally I don’t like her, but I read her all the time because I want to know what a rabid right-winger has on their mind. I’ll give her credit on this story, its the first one she didn’t blame Bill Clinton for something or other…. ;-) There’s plenty there that Slick Willie messed up. When she’s done with him, she’ll move on. But he did leave a ton of material for those who want to work with it.
No doubt about BC leaving lots of fodder around for the press to play with, but he isn’t in office and has little power these days. I would think its time to move for some positive things. Something Ann hasn’t been able to do in any article that I’ve read of hers. All negative, all the time. Lloyd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll give her credit on this story, its the first one she didn’t blame Bill Clinton for something or other…. ;-) Lloyd Lloyd, when you consider just how much BC did to help further liberal values and even less moral beliefs by his actions and behavior; And, that his own party wasn’t repulsed enough to ask for his resignation, I’d say he dodged a might big social bullet filled with co-dependance. Thank God, that there is at least a minority in the liberal media like Ann to keep his actions in the forfront for all to see.
BC should have been every mothers dream, but wasn’t. To come up from poor white trash and make it as far as he did is unbelievable. As to ‘liberal values’, I don’t agree with them all the time, nor do I agree with the conservative group all the time. Neither do the voters it seems. That’s why most elected officials end up being more centrist in their voting. Occasionally we will vote in someone on the more off-center to strike a balance, but for the most part, the centrist, moderate line is the one that wins. Lloyd
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm That’s brilliant. I like the line that those who compare the issue to racism are racists; how true!
Speaking of race, internal consistency is not a real strong suit of hers, is it? Compare: "First of all, anyone who compares the plight of women to the plight of blacks is a racist. Only the bizarre anti-sexual psychology of liberals could fail to grasp the insanity of treating gender like race." with: "While privileged enforcers of the [liberal] ideological Jim Crow system like Wyman received million-dollar bonuses, talented young [conservative] journalists were excluded from Wyman’s elite club." So treating gender like race is insanity, but treating news media hiring politics like race is not? Riiiiiight. Jesse p.s. P.J. O’Rourke is going to be mighty surprised to hear that "[t]he glossy magazines won’t allow a single Republican to write for them." But as long as their checks don’t bounce, I’m sure he’ll survive the shock.
p.s. P.J. O’Rourke is going to be mighty surprised to hear that "[t]he glossy magazines won’t allow a single Republican to write for them." But as long as their checks don’t bounce, I’m sure he’ll survive the shock.
Do they check to see if the Republican writers are married?
http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm [...] internal consistency is not a real strong suit of hers, is it? [...]
No. She writes like a demented version of John Daly playing: grip it and rip it, if an analogy goes OB then just drop another paragraph and let loose at another target, don’t worry if an argument is as stretched as a driver off the deck, if the conclusion is a four-putt then throw the keyboard into the lake and start over on the next column. Personally, I think she scores a 12 on every hole, but obviously enough people out there think she’s a birdie to keep her on the opinion.com tour. Jonathan Schilling
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://anncoulter.org/columns/2002/121102e.htm [...] internal consistency is not a real strong suit of hers, is it? [...] No. She writes like a demented version of John Daly playing: grip it and rip it, if an analogy goes OB then just drop another paragraph and let loose at another target, don’t worry if an argument is as stretched as a driver off the deck, if the conclusion is a four-putt then throw the keyboard into the lake and start over on the next column. Personally, I think she scores a 12 on every hole, but obviously enough people out there think she’s a birdie to keep her on the opinion.com tour. Jonathan Schilling
Just your luck… AC gets teamed up with you and you’d be the stretched one singing "the analogy of a snowmen cause I went "O"ver "B"oard… AC on the other hand, grips it and ripe’s her big conservative mouthy driver down the middle boarded by life’s lakes of question; then she pulls her mouthy driver once more, knowing life is but a gusto of healthy right wing values off the deck of a healthy humanity, resulting in one of life’s lippy hooker shots into the right ruff. But, with the language touch and a lion, and a few special words on why so many find snowmen, she stiffs the "right" shot and still holes out for that birdie…and you…I think you’re still looking at a 12bite. Is it tough for a liberal to hit’em straight??? Take care Jonathan…
Just your luck… AC gets teamed up with you and you’d be the stretched one singing "the analogy of a snowmen cause I went "O"ver "B"oard… AC on the other hand, grips it and ripe’s her big conservative mouthy driver down the middle boarded by life’s lakes of question; then she pulls her mouthy driver once more, knowing life is but a gusto of healthy right wing values off the deck of a healthy humanity, resulting in one of life’s lippy hooker shots into the right ruff. But, with the language touch and a lion, and a few special words on why so many find snowmen, she stiffs the "right" shot and still holes out for that birdie…and you…I think you’re still looking at a 12bite.
The 12 for me is quite possible. But somehow, I think Ms Coulter wouldn’t make a great golfer … a bit too tempermental to deal with the inevitable ups and downs of the game. For instance, in http://www.nationalreview.com/coulter/coulter060801.shtml she says the Supreme Court Casey Martin decision was "tyrannical" and manages to compare it to Roe v. Wade, the Japanese internment camps of WWII, and Pearl Harbor. Now say what you want about the Martin ruling, the practical effect of it so far upon the PGA tour — not to mention American freedom — has been zilch. So if she’s this bad at realistically assessing outcomes, I’d hate to see her club choice on a risk/reward hole. Is it tough for a liberal to hit’em straight???
In "my" case, yes, but that’s a very small statistical sample. And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. Unless of course that’s the whole key: all the swing books and infomercials and lessons are unnecessary! all you need are the proper political views, and the pars and birdies will follow. Jonathan Schilling
And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. ..and Feinstein would know, being to the left of Trotsky….and being so well aquanted with PGA Tour golfers…
I don’t know about Feinstein, but it makes a lot of sense to me that people who make a living the way pro golfers do would be economically conservative. They don’t get paid by a union, and if they don’t perform they don’t get paid at all. On the other hand, a true religious conservative won’t work on the Sabbath (provided his religion recognizes a Sabbath). But comparing your political stand to a radio personality’s persona isn’t any more realistic than your comparing someone to Trotsky.
And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. ..and Feinstein would know, being to the left of Trotsky….and being so well aquanted with PGA Tour golfers…
Huh? Feinstein spent a whole year hanging around pro golfers, especially the "trunkslammers" bouncing around Q School and the cut line … I don’t know what Feinstein’s political views are, but his depiction of the pro golf life seemed pretty accurate to me. The strongest image was of marginal golfers with their career on the line being so paralyzed with fear and doubt that they can’t bear to pull the club back on a late-in-the-round four-foot putt to save par…. I don’t know about Feinstein, but it makes a lot of sense to me that people who make a living the way pro golfers do would be economically conservative. They don’t get paid by a union, and if they don’t perform they don’t get paid at all.
Well, very very few workers get paid "by" a union. But yes, pro golfers are all self-employed and self-reliant and pro-free-enterprise and so on. I would wager that in 2000 Bush beat Gore in the PGA Tour vote by 90%-10% or so, and in the general PGA vote by 80-20 or more. Jonathan Schilling
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. ..and Feinstein would know, being to the left of Trotsky….and being so well aquanted with PGA Tour golfers… Huh? Feinstein spent a whole year hanging around pro golfers, especially the "trunkslammers" bouncing around Q School and the cut line … I don’t know what Feinstein’s political views are, but his depiction of the pro golf life seemed pretty accurate to me. The strongest image was of marginal golfers with their career on the line being so paralyzed with fear and doubt that they can’t bear to pull the club back on a late-in-the-round four-foot putt to save par…. Gotta love it. Some media hack "investigates" something for a year and is transformed into an expert who knows everything about everybody. I’ll bet that 35 seconds he spent with Tiger was really revealing!
Huh? You obviously haven’t read the book. It was written when Tiger was still an amateur, and there’s exactly one fleeting reference to him. And the book wasn’t billed as an "investigation" of anything. Jonathan Schilling
And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. ..and Feinstein would know, being to the left of Trotsky….and being so well aquanted with PGA Tour golfers…. Rob
The specific reference to this issue came about because some members of the Ryder cup team at that time didn’t wanna meet with Clinton (who was prez at the time) before departing for the matches. They expressed fairly right leaning views in explaining much of their objection. Ultimately they all did make the obligatory photo op appearance, at the insistence of the captian. But it gave Feinstein the opportunity to ask questions on this subject.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And since the Feinstein "A Good Walk Spoiled" book states that most PGA golfers are to the right of Rush Limbaugh, studying that group wouldn’t tell you much either. ..and Feinstein would know, being to the left of Trotsky….and being so well aquanted with PGA Tour golfers…. Rob The specific reference to this issue came about because some members of the Ryder cup team at that time didn’t wanna meet with Clinton (who was prez at the time) before departing for the matches. They expressed fairly right leaning views in explaining much of their objection. Ultimately they all did make the obligatory photo op appearance, at the insistence of the captian. But it gave Feinstein the opportunity to ask questions on this subject.
Sounds to me like he asked and answered the questions for himself. Especially after seeing him on TV. Rob — GOP (Golf Only Pledge) Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS.html )
The specific reference to this issue came about because some members of the Ryder cup team at that time didn’t wanna meet with Clinton (who was prez at the time) before departing for the matches. They expressed fairly right leaning views in explaining much of their objection.
That was where Paul Azinger uttered the memorable line: "I ain’t shakin hands with no draft dodger!" Which branch of the service Azinger served in is still unknown.
Talented? NOT!! An embarassment to women? ABSOLUTELY!! Leave the men alone! Let then have Augusta. Who really cares? Except for the women (?) who want to infringe upon their privacy & I don’t blame them for wanting to get away from this type "woman"!!!
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"? The Masters organizers. They don’t have to hold the tournament at ANGC. It would still be The Masters.
Rob, I’ve disagreed with you many times, but you’re smarter than that. That really is a silly thing to parrot for Martha Burk.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"? The Masters organizers. They don’t have to hold the tournament at ANGC. It would still be The Masters. Rob, I’ve disagreed with you many times, but you’re smarter than that. That really is a silly thing to parrot for Martha Burk.
You overestimate the degree to which ANGC members care about The Masters. Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
They? A great question. Assuming ANGC continued to hold a "tournament" that week and they invited the same crowd sans media, would it still be THE Masters’? If the USGA or PGA had another tournament that weekend, which they do already, could they call it The Masters’ and would anybody care? Could they (USGA and PGA) prevent the pros from playing at ANGC if Ms Burk gets her way?
<snipped "The Masters" is a trademark owned by the ANGC, the PGA Tour cannot create another tournament with the same name with permission from Augusta National. The PGA Tour and USGA cannot prevent individual players from participating in any tournament, whether it is public or private. — Dan Driscoll Member USGA, NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
From one standpoint the Masters has already long fulfilled it purpose when it was first started: To raise the profile of ANGC around the country. When ANGC was first started, the response to the membership drive was, shall we say, less than vigorous. Cliff Roberts felt that if Bob Jones invited his old golfing buddies on the tour and the high level amatuers, the publicity this generated would help the club. Jones really didn’t even want to play. Never forget that if the original plans for ANGC had made an impression on anyone at the time, it would now look like those Florida resort courses surrounded by housing developments overlooking the holes. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"? The Masters organizers. They don’t have to hold the tournament at ANGC. It would still be The Masters. Is this a troll of some sort? "The Masters organizers" are the members of Augusta National. It’s not some committee somewhere that decides to hold the tournament at that particular course. It’s the members of that particular club that host an invitational tournament. The Masters isn’t moving anywhere — the only conceivable change would be if they decided to discontinue the tournament altogether (which I think is improbable, but not a complete impossibility). Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"?
The Masters organizers. They don’t have to hold the tournament at ANGC. It would still be The Masters. Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"? The Masters organizers. They don’t have to hold the tournament at ANGC. It would still be The Masters.
Is this a troll of some sort? "The Masters organizers" are the members of Augusta National. It’s not some committee somewhere that decides to hold the tournament at that particular course. It’s the members of that particular club that host an invitational tournament. The Masters isn’t moving anywhere — the only conceivable change would be if they decided to discontinue the tournament altogether (which I think is improbable, but not a complete impossibility). Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
Who’s going to move the Masters? It is a PRIVATE tournament ran by the ANGC. Just because they sell tickets and it is televised does not make the tournament anything other than a private tournament ran by the AGNC. I don’t think for one second that the PGA tour or the USGA will "create" another Major Tournament to compete during the same week. That’s not going to happen. — John R If Aliens are so intelligent, why do they abduct such dumbass people?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wasn’t really saying that the tournament thrived because of Butler National. I was saying that the move didn’t hurt the tournament, and the move didn’t hurt Butler National either. I’m not so sure the same could be said if you separate The Masters’ from ANGC, and I really don’t think ANGC would be hurt by the move. The Western Open thrived long before it got to Butler National. The tournament was first played in 1899. That worked pretty well with the Western Open. Butler National is still men only, and the tournament is still thriving.
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Who’s "they"?
Yeah, it ain’t the Masters if it ain’t ANGC. More likely they could just go completely private. No TV, no tickets, members and their guests only. It’d be the most exclusive tournament in the world. Heck, they probably wouldn’t need ropes.
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers!
Who’s "they"?
The Western Open thrived long before it got to Butler National. The tournament was first played in 1899.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That worked pretty well with the Western Open. Butler National is still men only, and the tournament is still thriving.
Of course, they could just move The Masters to another venue. Now *THAT* would really go down well, wouldn’t it? Ole Martha would really be a hero then, especially amongst pro golfers! Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
hahahaha, here’s teh funny shit. You consider gaming to be kiddy but you know *all* the games! face it dude, you’re a closet gamer.
THATS the best you can do, Gameboy? Trying to justify you wasting the last three years of your life debating with 8 year olds that Nintendo sucks, by trying to include me in your pathetic little world. Unfortunately for you the entire sad chronicle of you losing debates to pre teens is available for anyone to see at Goodle.com. You should go take a look…10,800 posts about freaking video games. No wonder you are such an idiot about europeans and japanese. You are bitter about anyone that has done more with their lives. Oh look…that would be EVERYONE. Now keep talking…I want to make fun of you some more. Maybe I will start reposting some of your more idiotic things here. One of your odes to Gamecube.
dudester, the only piece of sense you ever posted was when someone asked you your age. You said 22. I think you were lying. 15, I’d guess. Time to start getting a life matey, before you become a truly sad case. cheers Glenn
Before? Its already too late, Glenn. ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk
<snip a load of crap. Can anyone tell me how to configure the Outlook Newsreader to ignore posts from a specific individual? I used Tools – Message Rules – Blocked Senders List to try eliminate dudester from my life but his garbage still appears. What am I doing wrong?
do the words "tits" make you nervous? I bet I know why, you nancy boy.
lol….. don’t know why, but this low brow humor cracked me up for some reason……. Viker 44
dudester, the only piece of sense you ever posted was when someone asked you your age. You said 22. I think you were lying. 15, I’d guess.
Yeah, 22 – no way.
Whats really funny about Dudster is the only other place this "22" year old moron posts is the console game newsgroups. He has spent YEARS there talking about how Nintendo sucks with a bunch of 12 year olds. Go to to Google newgroup searches and look at how long this bozo has been whining about how much he hates the Japanese and Europeans. Dudster is so freaking pathetic that its hilarious. As far as I can tell this is the very first newsgroup that he has ever posted to that did not involve Super Mario or Lara Croft. I guess I should feel sorry for him and his complete social retardation, but its more fun to laugh at him.
Whats really funny about Dudster is the only other place this "22" year old moron posts is the console game newsgroups. He has spent YEARS there talking about how Nintendo sucks with a bunch of 12 year olds. Go to to Google newgroup searches and look at how long this bozo has been whining about how much he hates the Japanese and Europeans. Dudster is so freaking pathetic that its hilarious. As far as I can tell this is the very first newsgroup that he has ever posted to that did not involve Super Mario or Lara Croft. I guess I should feel sorry for him and his complete social retardation, but its more fun to laugh at him.
Uh, jackass…i’ve also posted to the X-Files. But you wouldn’t know about an intelligent show like that because you’re british. now bugger off, you arseface. hahahha, i can’t even *write* that shit without laughing….british people are so gay.
Uh, jackass…i’ve also posted to the X-Files.
X-Files has a PlayStation game? But you wouldn’t know about an intelligent show like that because you’re british.
Im not British. If you hadn’t spent the last half of your life giving your thumbs a workout and killing brain cells playing Tekken you would probably be able to figure this out. Tell us all about how you DOMINATE on Jak and Daxster now…about how there is not a ten year old in the world that can beat you. You are nothing but a comical stereotype…the most comical thing about you is you have no clue how ridiculous a waste of life you have become.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Uh, jackass…i’ve also posted to the X-Files. X-Files has a PlayStation game? But you wouldn’t know about an intelligent show like that because you’re british. Im not British. If you hadn’t spent the last half of your life giving your thumbs a workout and killing brain cells playing Tekken you would probably be able to figure this out. Tell us all about how you DOMINATE on Jak and Daxster now…about how there is not a ten year old in the world that can beat you. You are nothing but a comical stereotype…the most comical thing about you is you have no clue how ridiculous a waste of life you have become. hahahaha, here’s teh funny shit. You consider gaming to be kiddy but you know *all* the games! face it dude, you’re a closet gamer. Come out the closet, asshole. There is nothing wrong with it. I’m ashamed that you’re American.
Get a life, loser. I’m ashamed to have wasted my time with you. BTW, what do you intend to be when you grow up? Pac-Man? Buh-bye. Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Uh, jackass…i’ve also posted to the X-Files. X-Files has a PlayStation game? But you wouldn’t know about an intelligent show like that because you’re british. Im not British. If you hadn’t spent the last half of your life giving your thumbs a workout and killing brain cells playing Tekken you would probably be able to figure this out. Tell us all about how you DOMINATE on Jak and Daxster now…about how there is not a ten year old in the world that can beat you. You are nothing but a comical stereotype…the most comical thing about you is you have no clue how ridiculous a waste of life you have become.
hahahaha, here’s teh funny shit. You consider gaming to be kiddy but you know *all* the games! face it dude, you’re a closet gamer. Come out the closet, asshole. There is nothing wrong with it. I’m ashamed that you’re American.
The women do too.
dudester, the only piece of sense you ever posted was when someone asked you your age. You said 22. I think you were lying. 15, I’d guess. Time to start getting a life matey, before you become a truly sad case. cheers Glenn
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The women do too.
do the words "tits" make you nervous? I bet I know why, you nancy boy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dudester, the only piece of sense you ever posted was when someone asked you your age. You said 22. I think you were lying. 15, I’d guess. Time to start getting a life matey, before you become a truly sad case. cheers Glenn The women do too.
Miss Anne Thrope, you often make some funny remarks which why you have not been plonked by me, but this is a very serious life threatening topic where incorrect or humorous postings are neither welcome or appreciated. Please limit inane postings to inane threads. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is no evidence of golfers having higher occurrences of skin cancer than any other group of primates. They are however, 5 times more likely to be disliked, and shunned by the general population.
Dear Tom, Go lay out in the sun. Sincerely, everyone
[stuff deleted for space] | | Yes, I have seen skin cancer on the back of someone’s hand. My dad had | to have some removed after long term exposure to the sun over years of | work. Skin cancer, especially melanoma, can arise on ANY part of the | body. It does not have to be an area that has been directly exposed to | the sun. | | As far as studies about golfers, I have not seen anything in particular, | but any occupation that puts you in the sun will increase your risk. | Wow, first time info for me. Thanks. Yep, I know about melanoma….have had several friends die from it. One spent 18 years in the hot Brasilian sun. Actually, now that I think about it….the other one did too. Sheesh. I think the PGA should do some studies re: skin cancer and their pros. I know Hale Irwin is trying to put the word out….along with others but……guess it would be more beneficial if EVERYONE were concerned. AnnE in MN
A tan is a reaction to damage caused by the sun. Yes the skin is trying to protext itself, but the fact remains that in order to get a tan, physical damage has to be done to the skin. Once the damage has been done, (tan, burn etc.) you are increasing your risk to skin cancer. If you don’t believe this, ask someone who is qualified to make a statement about whether or not a tan is protection, namely a dermotologist. No self respecting doctor who deals with skin cancer on a daily basis will tell you that a tan is either healthy or protection. When I posed the question to my own doctor, his recommendation was to get no tan or "color" because it is ALL harmful.. The only reason I am responding to your statement so forcefully is that I would hate for someone to follow the old wives tales about a little color being healthy, when it is in fact not so.
OK fine, but any self respecting doctor *would* tell you that tan is protection, because that’s exactly why it exists. Now, assuming that all sun is unhealthy, we have to realize we don’t live in an ideal world. In other words, is it really practical to expect people to be covered in 50 SPF sunscreen? I don’t think so. We all know that influenza virus is unhealthy, yet they inject it straight into people for a reason. The body reacts to it to protect against further damage. This is not to say that the virus is healthy for you, but it is to say that the body’s response makes you stronger. There are risks involved (Guillain-Barre syndrome, and a remote possibility that allergic reactions or even death may occur after receiving the flu shot), but the benefits are calculated to outweigh the risks. If we could be sure we would not come in contact with the virus, we wouldn’t risk injecting it into bodies. It is a controlled, measured exposure to something that’s otherwise not healthy for us. I don’t know that I’m right, but you haven’t convinced me I’m wrong either. What you are suggesting is having people go around with skin so white that even a few minutes of sun might be damaging. Having a bit of melanin in your skin is not healthy per se, but if it avoids sun damage from short term exposure, maybe it’s worth it.
@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | | | WEAR SUNSCREEN….is right. I do. Do you? <G | | Of course. My mom wears it so carefully that she’s lily-white. I | can’t decide if that’s really all that good. It seems to me that a | little color to the skin is a little protection. At her vampire | level, even a few minutes of direct sunlight would probably fry her. | I use sunscreen pretty often, but not every day for just walking | around. I could be wrong, but my theory is a little sun gives you a | little protection and that’s safer than none at all. | | | | | You are dead wrong about a little sun giving you protection. A tan is | caused by damage to the skin, period. That damage can and does add up | over time and the result can be skin cancer. I myself have had 10 skin | cancers including melanoma removed from my body. My dermatologist even | acknowledges that while sunscreen does prevent some damage it does not | significantly reduce the risk of skin cancer since it does not block all | UV radiation from the skin. Also, some skin cancers. like melanoma can | appear in people without exposure to the sun. I had one cut out of my | armpit, which never had a burn or tan in that area. It can also be | shown that a predisposition to melanoma and skin cancer may even be | heriditary as it can appear from generation to generation in some | families. The only way to totally decrease your chances of skin cancer | is to wear long pants and long sleeve shirts while in the sun as well as | a wide brim hat to cover the ears and head. Or stay out of the sun | altogether. That being said, It is not very feasible for most people to | do either. | Just read today that a straw hat is NOT going to protect the top of your head. Wow! What’s a person to do????? So? How about it, do you know the answer to my question as to golfers being more prone to skin cancer? Have YOU read any studies on this? Guess I should have clarified it by saying PRO Golfers. They probably spend more time on the course than us hackers. <g I’ve never heard of anyone getting skin cancer on a back of a hand, have you? AnnE in MN who saw Saturdays PGA and also the SR. OPEN this year in MN Thanx Minnesota! Nice job
Yes, I have seen skin cancer on the back of someone’s hand. My dad had to have some removed after long term exposure to the sun over years of work. Skin cancer, especially melanoma, can arise on ANY part of the body. It does not have to be an area that has been directly exposed to the sun. As far as studies about golfers, I have not seen anything in particular, but any occupation that puts you in the sun will increase your risk.
There is no evidence of golfers having higher occurrences of skin cancer than any other group of primates. They are however, 5 times more likely to be disliked, and shunned by the general population.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are dead wrong about a little sun giving you protection. A tan is caused by damage to the skin, period. Wait a minute, not so fast. It’s a fact that melanin is a form of natural defence against UV; it acts as a sort of sunscreen by absorbing further radiation. Now whether or not it’s a wise thing to do is another thing. But a tan IS a form of protection, like sunscreen is a form of protection. I’m sorry to hear of your melanomas.
A tan is a reaction to damage caused by the sun. Yes the skin is trying to protext itself, but the fact remains that in order to get a tan, physical damage has to be done to the skin. Once the damage has been done, (tan, burn etc.) you are increasing your risk to skin cancer. If you don’t believe this, ask someone who is qualified to make a statement about whether or not a tan is protection, namely a dermotologist. No self respecting doctor who deals with skin cancer on a daily basis will tell you that a tan is either healthy or protection. When I posed the question to my own doctor, his recommendation was to get no tan or "color" because it is ALL harmful.. The only reason I am responding to your statement so forcefully is that I would hate for someone to follow the old wives tales about a little color being healthy, when it is in fact not so.
I know that Andy North had skin cancer, and has surgery to remove it (from his nose). Most players lather up with UV protection before going out. Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with golfers?? Especially Pros? Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. AnnE in MN
Keep an eye on those moles, everyone!
Moles and gofers alike. (Without a Scottish accent on the latter)
Yep, my mom had two spots removed last year. I’m conscious of using sunscreen now, but we’ll have to see if I’ve already suffered the ill effects. Keep an eye on those moles, everyone! (Your own, not mine.)
I nominate that as ‘least necessary parenthetical’ in RSG history. ;) — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | Neat fact I saw: most people receive 80% of their lifetime exposure | to the sun by 18 years of age. I immediately thought "well, not me — | I play golf 120 times a year!" But then, I thought about all the | time I spent as a kid playing outside, running around the swimming | pool, etc. I work indoors and get almost no sunlight from November | to April and not much else *except* for my golfing time — and I wear | sunscreen now if it’s high-UV conditions, whereas I was much less | likely to do so as a kid (unless I was at the beach). | | Maybe I still am typical in that regard. I too thought that bit about 80% my exposure before I turned 18 was scary. Ooops. Wish I knew this years ago. Of course, no one had any protection waaaaaaaaaaaaay back then except to stay OUT of the sun all together. Seeing as a I had a very small (pencil point size) dot taken OFF my nose several years ago, I always wear #40 even if the sun isn’t shining. Yep, it’s probably too late, but better late than not at all.
Yep, my mom had two spots removed last year. I’m conscious of using sunscreen now, but we’ll have to see if I’ve already suffered the ill effects. Keep an eye on those moles, everyone! (Your own, not mine.) Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
You are dead wrong about a little sun giving you protection. A tan is caused by damage to the skin, period.
Wait a minute, not so fast. It’s a fact that melanin is a form of natural defence against UV; it acts as a sort of sunscreen by absorbing further radiation. Now whether or not it’s a wise thing to do is another thing. But a tan IS a form of protection, like sunscreen is a form of protection. I’m sorry to hear of your melanomas.
| | | | WEAR SUNSCREEN….is right. I do. Do you? <G | | Of course. My mom wears it so carefully that she’s lily-white. I | can’t decide if that’s really all that good. It seems to me that a | little color to the skin is a little protection. At her vampire | level, even a few minutes of direct sunlight would probably fry her. | I use sunscreen pretty often, but not every day for just walking | around. I could be wrong, but my theory is a little sun gives you a | little protection and that’s safer than none at all. | | | | | You are dead wrong about a little sun giving you protection. A tan is | caused by damage to the skin, period. That damage can and does add up | over time and the result can be skin cancer. I myself have had 10 skin | cancers including melanoma removed from my body. My dermatologist even | acknowledges that while sunscreen does prevent some damage it does not | significantly reduce the risk of skin cancer since it does not block all | UV radiation from the skin. Also, some skin cancers. like melanoma can | appear in people without exposure to the sun. I had one cut out of my | armpit, which never had a burn or tan in that area. It can also be | shown that a predisposition to melanoma and skin cancer may even be | heriditary as it can appear from generation to generation in some | families. The only way to totally decrease your chances of skin cancer | is to wear long pants and long sleeve shirts while in the sun as well as | a wide brim hat to cover the ears and head. Or stay out of the sun | altogether. That being said, It is not very feasible for most people to | do either. | Just read today that a straw hat is NOT going to protect the top of your head. Wow! What’s a person to do????? So? How about it, do you know the answer to my question as to golfers being more prone to skin cancer? Have YOU read any studies on this? Guess I should have clarified it by saying PRO Golfers. They probably spend more time on the course than us hackers. <g I’ve never heard of anyone getting skin cancer on a back of a hand, have you? AnnE in MN who saw Saturdays PGA and also the SR. OPEN this year in MN Thanx Minnesota! Nice job
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – WEAR SUNSCREEN….is right. I do. Do you? <G Of course. My mom wears it so carefully that she’s lily-white. I can’t decide if that’s really all that good. It seems to me that a little color to the skin is a little protection. At her vampire level, even a few minutes of direct sunlight would probably fry her. I use sunscreen pretty often, but not every day for just walking around. I could be wrong, but my theory is a little sun gives you a little protection and that’s safer than none at all.
You are dead wrong about a little sun giving you protection. A tan is caused by damage to the skin, period. That damage can and does add up over time and the result can be skin cancer. I myself have had 10 skin cancers including melanoma removed from my body. My dermatologist even acknowledges that while sunscreen does prevent some damage it does not significantly reduce the risk of skin cancer since it does not block all UV radiation from the skin. Also, some skin cancers. like melanoma can appear in people without exposure to the sun. I had one cut out of my armpit, which never had a burn or tan in that area. It can also be shown that a predisposition to melanoma and skin cancer may even be heriditary as it can appear from generation to generation in some families. The only way to totally decrease your chances of skin cancer is to wear long pants and long sleeve shirts while in the sun as well as a wide brim hat to cover the ears and head. Or stay out of the sun altogether. That being said, It is not very feasible for most people to do either.
The widespread use of sunscreens just hasn’t been happening long enough for there to be much in the way of conclusive studies yet. A study by the Queensand Institute for Medical Research has shown that usage of suncreens can significantly reduce rates for the most common skin cancer, the fairly serious SCC (squamous-cell carcinoma), by up to 40%.
That does sound conclusive. What I meant to say was inclusive – meaning both short and long term exposure (like 60-70 years.)
WEAR SUNSCREEN….is right. I do. Do you? <G
Of course. My mom wears it so carefully that she’s lily-white. I can’t decide if that’s really all that good. It seems to me that a little color to the skin is a little protection. At her vampire level, even a few minutes of direct sunlight would probably fry her. I use sunscreen pretty often, but not every day for just walking around. I could be wrong, but my theory is a little sun gives you a little protection and that’s safer than none at all.
| Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with | golfers?? Especially Pros? | | Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. | | AnnE in MN | | In short-yes. I found a few links- | | http://www.aad.org/PressReleases/golfmessage.html | http://www.cancer.org/eprise/main/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_2_1x_Golfers_a nd_Skin_Cancer | | Wear sunscreen. | | Tom Great URLs. Thanx Didn’t really give me anymore info than I’ve already found via Google but it’s good to keep on reading just in case I find a study being done for pro golfers. WEAR SUNSCREEN….is right. I do. Do you? <G AnnE in MN
| Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with | golfers?? Especially Pros? | | Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. | | http://www.google.com | | Type in "golfers skin cancer" | | Start reading. The first link is to the American Cancer Society. | There’s lots of stuff that would interest you. Hi Doug, Yep, already been there, done that. Never saw anything in hours of reading to direct me to any studies being done on a link of golf pros and skin cancer. | Neat fact I saw: most people receive 80% of their lifetime exposure | to the sun by 18 years of age. I immediately thought "well, not me — | I play golf 120 times a year!" But then, I thought about all the | time I spent as a kid playing outside, running around the swimming | pool, etc. I work indoors and get almost no sunlight from November | to April and not much else *except* for my golfing time — and I wear | sunscreen now if it’s high-UV conditions, whereas I was much less | likely to do so as a kid (unless I was at the beach). | | Maybe I still am typical in that regard. I too thought that bit about 80% my exposure before I turned 18 was scary. Ooops. Wish I knew this years ago. Of course, no one had any protection waaaaaaaaaaaaay back then except to stay OUT of the sun all together. Seeing as a I had a very small (pencil point size) dot taken OFF my nose several years ago, I always wear #40 even if the sun isn’t shining. Yep, it’s probably too late, but better late than not at all. thanx for your comeback. AnnE in MN
The widespread use of sunscreens just hasn’t been happening long enough for there to be much in the way of conclusive studies yet.
Australia has had a wide conscious use of sunscreens, mainly because we (particularly Queensland) are the "skin cancer capital of the world". Skin cancer is the third most common cancer in Australians. There has been a national focus through media campaigns like "Slip, Slop, Slap" ("Slip on a shirt, slop on some sunscreen, slap on a hat") for over two decades. A study by the Queensand Institute for Medical Research has shown that usage of suncreens can significantly reduce rates for the most common skin cancer, the fairly serious SCC (squamous-cell carcinoma), by up to 40%. The other two skin cancers, the common BCC (basal-cell carcinoma) and the deadly melanoma, are apparently particularly influenced by early-life sun exposure, and trying to stop it with sunscreen on a 60-year-old may be like "shutting the door after the horse has bolted". Because of this time span, the effect of sunscreens on these types of skin cancer is still inconclusive. But there is now some initial evidence of a lower incidence in the very youngest population who get it. So prevention in early life by application of sunscreens also looks like being effective on these forms of skin cancer. (The crucial thing with melanoma is to have it removed early. There is a 100% survival rate for melanomas removed that are under 0.75mm deep. Where a melanoma is left to progress to over 3mm deep, the survival rate is only 59% for longer than five years.) Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with golfers?? Especially Pros? Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. AnnE in MN
In short-yes. I found a few links- http://www.aad.org/PressReleases/golfmessage.html http://www.cancer.org/eprise/main/docroot/NWS/content/NWS_2_1x_Golfer… Wear sunscreen. Tom
Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with golfers?? Especially Pros? Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.google.com Type in "golfers skin cancer" Start reading. The first link is to the American Cancer Society. There’s lots of stuff that would interest you. Neat fact I saw: most people receive 80% of their lifetime exposure to the sun by 18 years of age. I immediately thought "well, not me — I play golf 120 times a year!" But then, I thought about all the time I spent as a kid playing outside, running around the swimming pool, etc. I work indoors and get almost no sunlight from November to April and not much else *except* for my golfing time — and I wear sunscreen now if it’s high-UV conditions, whereas I was much less likely to do so as a kid (unless I was at the beach). Maybe I still am typical in that regard. Doug — ___, Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer o IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont | | Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752 | / | . My homepage: http://doug.obscurestuff.com (|)
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| Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with | golfers?? Especially Pros? | | Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. | | People who spend a lot of time in the sun are more prone to skin cancer. | Touring pros spend more time in the sun. There might be a connection. LOL Thanx for that insite! You should have stated that People who spend a lot of time in the sun without sun screen are more prone to skin cancer. <g Now, if only I could find the info about touring pros. Ummmmmmmmmmmm AnnE in MN
LOL Thanx for that insite! You should have stated that People who spend a lot of time in the sun without sun screen are more prone to skin cancer. <g
That’s a more interesting question – how much exactly does suncscreen do to decrease the risk of sun cancer? Personally I don’t think you’ll find much on golfers or anyone at all because much of the effect of sun exposure on the skin is cumulative and long-term. The widespread use of suncscreens just hasn’t been happening long enough for there to be much in the way of conclusive studies yet. I’d think there ought to be something on pro golfers from the 50s and 60s though, but it’s not enough to answer your question.
Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with golfers?? Especially Pros? Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know. AnnE in MN
Has anyone here read or heard anything regarding skin cancer with golfers?? Especially Pros? Has there been a study done??? Inquiring minds want to know.
People who spend a lot of time in the sun are more prone to skin cancer. Touring pros spend more time in the sun. There might be a connection.
Is there a way to find out what Beem was hitting with off the tee yesterday?? (the make/model of his driver in the PGA championship) It looked a little like the Taylor Made 500 series or something, but it couldn’t be those. Anybody know? or know how to find out??
He was playing a Taylor Made R580 driver, it is not clear which loft he was using..but they are available in 7.5,8.5,9.5,10.5 and 12 degrees. The club features a 400cc head, a ‘legal’ face just within the 0.83 COR USGA limit (they are available up to the R&A limit – 0.86), the shaft is an MAS^2 (Motion Analysis Shaft System) 60 gram (available in 5.0, 6.0 and 6.5 stiffness) with a ‘medium’ tip….color black..with a small white ‘flash’ logo…the grip weighs 40 grams, the overall club length is 45.5". The lie is 59
You are about 30 years behind the times. The XL3000 Exceptional Spin is a great ball. I’ve seen many good players in the 5 to 15 hdcp range playing it. It placed on Golf Digest’s chart last month right next to the Pro V1. This is not the Topflite XL.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have no idea what your threshold for respect is, … Oh, nothing specific. Here are a few ideas, in random order: 1. Doesn’t aim way left, expecting a big slice; 2. Doesn’t chip like he’s chopping wood; 3. Doesn’t panic on a green-side bunker shot; 4. Doesn’t automatically hit a driver on every hole that’s not a par 3; 5. Can hit long irons; 6. Can draw or fade the ball on demand; … BTW, there is one situation where I hit a TOP FLIGHT: in a scramble I will hit one off the tee on a par 5 or long par 4. Other than that, I still consider it pretty much a hacker’s ball. (I don’t think it’s snobbyness on my part: I normally hit Titleist X-OUTs that I get at Wally World for about $10/dozen.) I’m not saying that everyone who plays a TOP FLIGHT is a hacker. I’m sure a lot of good golfers use them (although I’ve never seen one). It’s just that as you get better you get to the point where you can hit it far enough, and you realize that consistency and control of distance are far more important than raw yardage. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
Not snobbiness? But you play Titleist X-outs rather than first run balls for the same price? I bet if someone blacked out the markings on an XL3000 and a Pro V1 you couldn’t tell the difference.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I have no idea what your threshold for respect is, … Oh, nothing specific. Here are a few ideas, in random order: 1. Doesn’t aim way left, expecting a big slice; 2. Doesn’t chip like he’s chopping wood; 3. Doesn’t panic on a green-side bunker shot; 4. Doesn’t automatically hit a driver on every hole that’s not a par 3; 5. Can hit long irons; 6. Can draw or fade the ball on demand; … BTW, there is one situation where I hit a TOP FLIGHT: in a scramble I will hit one off the tee on a par 5 or long par 4. Other than that, I still consider it pretty much a hacker’s ball. (I don’t think it’s snobbyness on my part: I normally hit Titleist X-OUTs that I get at Wally World for about $10/dozen.) I’m not saying that everyone who plays a TOP FLIGHT is a hacker. I’m sure a lot of good golfers use them (although I’ve never seen one). It’s just that as you get better you get to the point where you can hit it far enough, and you realize that consistency and control of distance are far more important than raw yardage. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
: Not snobbiness? But you play Titleist X-outs rather than : first run balls for the same price? I bet if someone blacked : out the markings on an XL3000 and a Pro V1 you couldn’t tell the difference. Snobbiness, no. Outdated experience? I’d entertain that. I haven’t experimented with many new balls lately, but last time I did Titleist (not the balatta cover one) was the one I liked best all around – off the tee, short iron control, consistent on and around the green. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
Yeh, but somebody won the Colorado Amateur using a lady’s ball.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Not only do I not know of any pros playing a Topflight ball, I would say I’ve never seen any [male] player who’s game I respected play one. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
(I don’t think it’s snobbyness on my part: I normally hit Titleist X-OUTs
I don’t think it’s snobbish either but, rather our conditioning over the years. Top Flite balls have been know as "rocks" for as long as I can recall. No doubt that situation has changed with the introduction of new models made of new materials. I have played a few holes with some that I have found and found them to play pretty well. However, I am not ready to replace my usual ball with any of them. The old image of Top Flite balls is hard to shake. My lack of confidence in any Top Flite’s performance plus posibilitiy of being razzed by members of my foursome will prevent me from buying them. The fact that Golf Digest placed Top Flite next to Pro V1 doesn’t say much for the Pro V1, does it?
: You are about 30 years behind the times. The XL3000 Exceptional : Spin is a great ball. I’ve seen many good players in the 5 to 15 : hdcp range playing it. It placed on Golf Digest’s chart last month : right next to the Pro V1. This is not the Topflite XL. 30 years? Surely not more than 15? — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Thanks
That’s interesting. I know a few Pros that promote them, but I don’t know if they play them. The Strata is suppose to be a profession quality ball. Furrik and Sutton promote them. Trevino the XL brand. But I don’t think Trevino plays the XL. That’s a Hacker’s ball.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Thanks
Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Thanks
Probably just one: Trevino. A few more play Strata, which is also a Spaulding product.
: Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Not only do I not know of any pros playing a Topflight ball, I would say I’ve never seen any [male] player who’s game I respected play one. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
: Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Not only do I not know of any pros playing a Topflight ball, I would say I’ve never seen any [male] player who’s game I respected play one.
I don’t doubt you, but if that’s true it’s most likely due to snobbery on the player’s part than the fact that the ball is not that good. I’ve played with lots of balls, and some of the TopFlite balls do OK. I sometimes use them on holes with lots of trees and/or softish greens because they come off the clubface with a high launch angle and come down from higher with short irons than "spinnier" balls. I’ve had them stay in their own pitch mark on several occasions. (I use different types/brands of balls for different holes and can’t decide on a favorite.) I have no idea what your threshold for respect is, but I shoot in the 70’s more than half the time. I doubt that using one of the XL2000 or XL3000 balls for a complete round instead of another one might pick would make more than 1/4 stroke per round difference, if that, unless the greens were very hard but not rock hard. I don’t think a double-digit handicapper would notice a difference in scores. Zane
: Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Not only do I not know of any pros playing a Topflight ball, I would say I’ve never seen any [male] player who’s game I respected play one. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
The X3000 series are not the rock flights of old. Besides, Lee Trevino plays them – he does doesn’t he, he says he does on TV. B. J. Wilkinson
: I have no idea what your threshold for respect is, … Oh, nothing specific. Here are a few ideas, in random order: 1. Doesn’t aim way left, expecting a big slice; 2. Doesn’t chip like he’s chopping wood; 3. Doesn’t panic on a green-side bunker shot; 4. Doesn’t automatically hit a driver on every hole that’s not a par 3; 5. Can hit long irons; 6. Can draw or fade the ball on demand; … BTW, there is one situation where I hit a TOP FLIGHT: in a scramble I will hit one off the tee on a par 5 or long par 4. Other than that, I still consider it pretty much a hacker’s ball. (I don’t think it’s snobbyness on my part: I normally hit Titleist X-OUTs that I get at Wally World for about $10/dozen.) I’m not saying that everyone who plays a TOP FLIGHT is a hacker. I’m sure a lot of good golfers use them (although I’ve never seen one). It’s just that as you get better you get to the point where you can hit it far enough, and you realize that consistency and control of distance are far more important than raw yardage. — Ken Floyd Livermore, Colorado
: Can someone name me a few Pro Golfers that use the TOP FLITE golf ball . Not only do I not know of any pros playing a Topflight ball, I would say I’ve never seen any [male] player who’s game I respected play one.
You don’t respect Trevino? Have you tried the new TF3000 extra spin balls? Very long, stops on a dime and soft cover for good feel. I like them. I like the prov1 better, but these are quite a bit cheaper. They have come a long way from the TopRocks of yore.
… BTW, there is one situation where I hit a TOP FLIGHT: in a scramble I will hit one off the tee on a par 5 or long par 4. Other than that, I still consider it pretty much a hacker’s ball. (I don’t think it’s snobbyness on my part: I normally hit Titleist X-OUTs that I get at Wally World for about $10/dozen.) I’m not saying that everyone who plays a TOP FLIGHT is a hacker. I’m sure a lot of good golfers use them (although I’ve never seen one). It’s just that as you get better you get to the point where you can hit it far enough, and you realize that consistency and control of distance are far more important than raw yardage.
OK, first it’s TOP FLITE. Second, you talk as if they only make one ball. They make a bunch, just like all the other companies. Right now I’m playing their Exceptional Spin ball. And it’s not a real long, low spin ball, like you seem to be assuming.
Someone in my generation needs to apologize for the comments of the "older former great" golfers. As one who has experienced the process of ageing I understand why they have begun to talk like idiots.
All I can say in their defense (all pro golfers, actually) is that they keep getting asked the same dumb questions, incessantly. They keep getting egged on by the media. I’m pretty sure I’d have said some things I wish I hadn’t said, or that came out wrong, if I were forced into that situation. I’m not saying they necessarily regret it in this case, though.
Someone in my generation needs to apologize for the comments of the "older former great" golfers. As one who has experienced the process of ageing I understand why they have begun to talk like idiots. Before their own golfing skills faded they did their talking with their golf clubs now because they can’t hit it out of their own shadows they can only critizie the younger generation. They should be smarter than that.
In years past, the younger adults were more respectful of those their senior…that’s changed dramatically. I am saddened that you feel you have the right to speak for others, and in this case great golfers, and to refer to them as idiots it really special. If I could have any wish right now, I’d wish for Jack Nicholas to knock on your door and see how you handle yourself with him face to face..8-) Although my playing does not reflect it I’m working harder on my game than I ever did, the nature of todays game requires it. The same is true of todays generation. It’s a 70 to 80 hour a week job. It is my belief that the "former greats" could not have stood up to the grind now required to be successful.
I disagree…for tough minded talents, it’s easier. The primary reason Jack was challenged as often as he was had less to do with the quality of his peers than the fact the he did not have the physical and playing skills Tiger and a few others playing currently have. His thinking was legendary but he could achieve his playing goals without going to the gym etc., so he didn’t unless he was in pain (bad back etc).
Bob, I am 52…NO golfers went to the gym until recently, except a few. In CA going to the gym became fashionable in the mid 70’s. I raced bicycles, played tournament 2 man sand volleyball and back country skied back then. There wasn’t as many gyms and they were half empty. Most of the players on the PGA Tour today didn’t consider going to the gym until TW came along (6yrs ago) and busted their chops. You can see that in the bodies swinging the clubs today. Yes, I believe TW would have been great in yesteryear…But, the great JN has been great for 25yrs and still is. So as one who is in his 60’s I apologize to the younger generation. My age group should learn to keep its mouth shut or at least not compare itself to the next generation.
Once again I am ashamed for anyone that thinks they have the right to speak for someone else, let alone someone as great as JN. IMO, I believe many of the younger players today are tough if compared to their peers using today’s standards. However, the majority don’t hold a candle to what was tough in my generation and the ones prior…
Someone in my generation needs to apologize for the comments of the "older former great" golfers. As one who has experienced the process of ageing I understand why they have begun to talk like idiots. Before their own golfing skills faded they did their talking with their golf clubs now because they can’t hit it out of their own shadows they can only critizie the younger generation. They should be smarter than that. Although my playing does not reflect it I’m working harder on my game than I ever did, the nature of todays game requires it. The same is true of todays generation. It’s a 70 to 80 hour a week job. It is my belief that the "former greats" could not have stood up to the grind now required to be successfull. The primary reason Jack was challenged as often as he was had less to do with the quality of his peers than the fact the he did not have the physical and playing skills Tiger and a few others playing currently have. His thinking was legendary but he could achieve his playing goals without going to the gym etc., so he didn’t unless he was in pain (bad back etc). So as one who is in his 60’s I apologize to the younger generation. My age group should learn to keep its mouth shut or at least not compare itself to the next generation. — Bob Dye No Mulligans, Putting them all In Still Hacking Away (to email remove spaces)
Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated. Mary
It sounds like you might be trying to lift the ball instead of hitting down into it and letting the loft of the club get it in the air. Actually, for a beginner, a 5i is going to hard to hit well anyways. Try using a 7i or 8i and get good with those clubs first before trying the longer irons. You might even want to check back with the pro and get a one on one lesson. They should be able to tell you exactly what you are doing wrong. Good luck and remember to have fun. :-) Bryan — Bryan Berguson RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/bergusonb.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated. Mary
Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated. Mary
Mary, good for you to note the essential FIRST diagnostic tool: the impact point. Hitting on an edge of the club gives you absolutely nothing of information other than you need to get the club on the ball. THEN you will be in a position to start to figure out if you even HAVE a "swing fault." Expect as a beginner to do some fumbling – much like when you learned to walk (3 months of it?) or ride a bike smoothly. THEN you will, with clubFACE impacts, be able to see a pattern. At that point you will be able to start to diagnose what swing elements need to be addressed. If you are not skying the ball due to it being teed too high now, you might well be trying to shove the clubhead through –like waving a stick at the ball, and causing its loft to be way too high. In good swings the clubhead is being dragged and it really is a bit delofted at impact. In a short while revisit ball flight when you find fairly consistent clubface impact and when you also "know more" about what is actually happening. I admire your intelligently noting the most important piece of information – impact! George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
you could be hitting on the up swing, or reverse pivoting, where your weight is over your left side at the top of your backswing, then when you make a stroke you shift the weight back to the right. try putting your left foot up on the toes and take a back swing, you will feel if the weight is on the left. or dont. spence
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated. Mary
Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated.
Hit the sweet spot. Also, make sure your hands are ahead of the ball at impact. A video camera will show you. Sounds like a lesson is in order to learn better technique – no shortcuts grasshopper.
Beginners often use their hands too early in the downswing. Instead of maintaining the angle between arms and shaft, they "flip" the club with early hand action and end up hitting upward at impact. If you seem to be topping the ball frequently, that could be your problem. Hi guys, I’m a beginner who has had a few group lessons and I’ve been visiting the range regularly but a consistant problem has been too much loft, my 5 i flies like a 9i, consequently I don’t get a lot of distance, I struggle to 100 y. I’m guessing part of the problem is which part of the club head hits the ball as the sweet spot is the only part of the club head which is completely unmarked : ) Any suggestions appreciated. Mary
– Regards, Petemoss kindly remove the numbers for my real address
IMHO. "flipping" is usually the result of trying to compensate for hitting shots fat. A lot of self-taught golfers are self-conscious not only about their swings, but also about taking muskrat pelt sized divots [as the ball goes just 30 yds]. Flipping the club is one way to avoid the big divots. To unlearn flipping, lessons and focused practices are essential. A golfer w/ flipping problems has to learn a flatter swing and a wrist cock that occurs as a result of the transition – instead of a conscious early wrist cock [for the typical full swing]. Then he/she has to trust that the club will ‘release itself’ at impact w/o a conscious flip by the hands. Note that stop action photos of most pro golfers show that the full release of the club occurs AFTER impact – release occurs through impact, not before. The flipper tries to release the club at/before impact and tops it, hits it high right, or fades it, or pulls it and gets less distance with more effort even if the timing of the flip is very good. Except for some specialty short shots or deep rough shots, take the club back LOW & slow and let the swing transition at the top cock your wrists. Then use your shoulders, arms, hips and legs to provide the power that is released through impact. To prove this to yourself, try to avoid any releasing of the club in a normal swing. Unless you have a 10 gram clubhead, it’s almost impossible. Oily, yet quiet wrists are a key for me. YMMV of course Beginners often use their hands too early in the downswing. Instead of maintaining the angle between arms and shaft, they "flip" the club with early hand action and end up hitting upward at impact. If you seem
to be topping the ball frequently, that could be your problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I was talking to a friend and said that shooting par is pretty hard, even pro golfers can do it all the time. So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments? Thanks
So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments?
It is my understanding that if you simply play par golf on the US pro tour you will be earning more than $1m per year. Someone will undoubtedly correct me if this is wrong…..but I know you can earn a hell of a lot of money just playing par golf. cheers david
I assume you mean score PAR rather than 72 literally. Looking at the PGA Tour stats page, Miguel Angel Jimenz has a scoring ave this year of 72.01 – that ranks him 147 on the tour. Currently ranked 121 on the money list with almost $220k US Last year – an ave of 72.01 was Garett Willis and that was only good enough for 164 place on the scoring list. However, he was ranked 77th on the money list with almost $685k and easily kept his card. There are many reasons for the big different in scoring rank and money list rank. Could have shot the lights out early on – then not made a cut for the last half of the season – shooting high 70s on Thrus and Fri etc……. The key is keeping your card I think – If you can go out and make par every week, and make the cut, it would appear you are pretty close to keeping your place on tour. Checking back to ‘92 – An ave of 72 was Mitch Adcock – ranked 172 on the scoring list. This only got him 166th on the money list with almost $59k. Wouldn’t have kept his card. Check out http://www.pgatour.com/stats/ for all the stats you can think of. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was talking to a friend and said that shooting par is pretty hard, even pro golfers can do it all the time. So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments? Thanks
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments? It is my understanding that if you simply play par golf on the US pro tour you will be earning more than $1m per year. Someone will undoubtedly correct me if this is wrong…..but I know you can earn a hell of a lot of money just playing par golf. cheers david
I wonder if stats are available as to whether you could ever MAKE the tour to begin with with a Q school or other performances OF par only. Seems to me without checking the numbers that a par in Q school would be pretty poor on the list, hence not make the top 37 or whatever number qualifies…. But this guess needs correction by the real numbers… George Hibbard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
I was talking to a friend and said that shooting par is pretty hard, even pro golfers can do it all the time. So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments?
If you could shoot 72 everyday, you probably would not last on the tour. Most times, par golf won’t make the cut. It is only at the majors and a few of the more difficult tracks on the tour where par, or higher will make the cut. Not cut–no money. Here in europe, they have the EPD Tour. It is a third level tour and par golf will not win you anything there, either. Typical winning scores for a three day tournament are better than 10 under par. Par golf will help you make the cut, but you win no money. Now, if you could play par golf at every US Open, then you are on to something 
Thanks
You’re welcome, David
I was talking to a friend and said that shooting par is pretty hard, even pro golfers can do it all the time. So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments? Thanks
Well, according to the PGA scoring stats for 2002 located at http://www.pga.com/tour/stats/PGA.SCORING.html Harrison Frazer has a 72.01 average, which is 141st in scoring. He’s 85th on the money list, with a total of $348,000 (in 15 events, through the memorial tourney).
so I assume you mean score PAR rather than 72 literally. Looking at the PGA Tour stats page, Miguel Angel Jimenz has a scoring ave this year of 72.01 – that ranks him 147 on the tour. Currently ranked 121 on the money list with almost $220k US Last year – an ave of 72.01 was Garett Willis and that was only good enough for 164 place on the scoring list. However, he was ranked 77th on the money list with almost $685k and easily kept his card.
Examples such as this don’t really answer his question. That is because if you shoot 62 for one tournament and 82 for the next tournament you will earn more than someone else who shot 72 for both tournaments.
So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments?
A few tournaments on the USPGA Tour are par 70 or 71. So let’s take Mr. Incredibly Consistent, a golfer who enters every tournament and shoots *par every round*. Here’s what he would have earnt in normal tournaments so far in the 2002 schedule: Tournament Par Score Position Earnings Sony 70 280 T54 9,080 Bob Hope 72 288 MC Phoenix 71 284 66 8,320 Pebble ProAm 72 288 T39 13,421 Buick 72 288 T58 7,920 Nissan 71 284 T63 7,844 Tucson 72 288 MC Genuity 72 288 T41 14,878 Honda 72 288 MC Bay Hill 72 288 T31 21,733 Houston 72 288 T56 8,960 Bell South 72 288 T37 18,240 WorldCom 71 284 T58 8,840 Greensboro 72 288 T48 9,667 Compaq 72 288 T67 8,820 Byron Nelson 70 280 T39 16,240 Colonial 70 280 T28 29,240 Memorial 72 288 T56 10,125 Kemper 71 284 T42 11,583 Buick 71 284 T46 9,922 Total 214,833 Money list position: 123rd (just enough at present to keep full exemption) However if he also played the bigger or invitational tournaments he’d earn: Mercedes 72 288 T18 73,000 Players 72 288 T19 78,000 Masters 72 288 19 81,200 Total 447,033 Money list position: 73rd He would not have won any tournament, and he would have missed three cuts. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Here’s what he would have earnt in normal tournaments so far in the 2002 schedule: …… Total 214,833 Money list position: 123rd (just enough at present to keep full exemption) … He would not have won any tournament, and he would have missed three cuts.
Wow, I’m surprised. I was too lazy to do that, but I remember an article some years ago where they did the same thing, and the par golfer came out to be a total loser. Interesting.
They would probably make a pretty comfortable living on the majors alone. But someone that can only muster a 72 on a run of the mill course, isn’t likely to shoot even par in majors… especially on say a Beth Page Black US Open layout. But if we can accept the pretense that they will shoot even par every tourney including the majors, the results will be alot better in the majors than in the Massengil-Trojan Podunk Classic. dsc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was talking to a friend and said that shooting par is pretty hard, even pro golfers can do it all the time. So heres my question, IF someone can shoot a 72 everyday, actually if someone can ONLY shoot a 72, no more, no less…how would they do on the tour? Top 10? Would they be able to win some tournaments? Thanks