Golfers Wiki » pro golfers

Cheating

admin — Sat, 29 Nov 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

This is one I just don’t get. I was joined up with a threesome as a single the other day and got to seem some interesting "golf." One of the guys consistently placed his marker in front of his ball when marking, then would place his ball as though he had marked it behind the ball… wtf, does that extra inch really make all the difference? And how did the guys he was taking/giving dollars to not notice (I guess they probably ignored it since it seems basically pointless.) These guys never hit a fairway but somehow were always making par. It was quite an interesting round. I guess the only benefit was getting to put my bag on the odd man’s cart and not having to carry: can’t complain about that. (oh, first tee, 2/3 whiffed). Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? — bollod

Response:

Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? — bollod

The least fun I ever had was when I stumbled into a round with a weird psychiatrist, his wife, and a guy who must have been a patient of his. WOW… CJ

Response:

: Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? : : — : bollod : : : The least fun I ever had was when I stumbled into a round with a weird : psychiatrist, his wife, and a guy who must have been a patient of his. : WOW… Hey. Strauss may be weird, but he is not a psychiatrist. You take that back. cb

Response:

It makes a big difference – it makes it very obvious what type of players they are. Those betting with him appreciate being so obvious – it makes things easier for next time. It is also useful to discover that a co-worker or a friend that you might need to trust is this type of player.

Response:

I try to keep my mouth shut and never have my own money on the line. I always tell people who want me to bet that if I agree, we will play 100% by the rules, including NO mulligans, NO improved lies, and putting out on all holes. 75% of the time that shuts people up pretty fast, since it describes a game of golf they are not accustomed to playing.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is one I just don’t get. I was joined up with a threesome as a single the other day and got to seem some interesting "golf." One of the guys consistently placed his marker in front of his ball when marking, then would place his ball as though he had marked it behind the ball… wtf, does that extra inch really make all the difference? And how did the guys he was taking/giving dollars to not notice (I guess they probably ignored it since it seems basically pointless.) These guys never hit a fairway but somehow were always making par. It was quite an interesting round. I guess the only benefit was getting to put my bag on the odd man’s cart and not having to carry: can’t complain about that. (oh, first tee, 2/3 whiffed). Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? — bollod

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? : : — : bollod : : : The least fun I ever had was when I stumbled into a round with a weird : psychiatrist, his wife, and a guy who must have been a patient of his. : WOW… Hey. Strauss may be weird, but he is not a psychiatrist. You take that back. cb

wadda ya mean? All that on the course advice I paid Strauss for isn’t any good??? Sh*T!!

Response:

I played in a regular group years ago that always played for a little cash but didn’t play by the rules. We rolled the ball, gave putts inside about 3 feet, didn’t count OB’s, took mulligans, etc. It doesn’t matter within the group as long as everyone is playing by the same rules. However, whenever I would play for cash outside that group, or in a tournament, I would get killed with my vanity handicap, so I started playing the ball down and putting most everything out some time ago. Now I’m so used to playing the ball down that I do so even when playing with my old group and still win some occasional cash As for an interesting story, I joined a threesome a couple of weeks ago from just north of here. A husband and wife and a friend of theirs. The husband was legally blind (20/2800) which I didn’t know until the first tee when he asked that I watch his ball for him as he had a "sight problem". I’m thinking to myself "this round is going to take forever" especially when in preparing to tee off on the 1st hole he stands behind the ball, points his driver down the fairway and has his friend stand behind him while he rotates around to the proper direction, and his friend says "right there". He then addresses the ball and pounds one down the middle about 275 straight as a string. Second shot, same thing for alignment, and after asking for a distance hits a 6 iron to about 12 ft. On the greens this gentlemen would have the pin attended on all but very short putts and he was a very good putter but because he had never played at my course he had no idea of the subtle breaks here and there so he 2 putted most every green. I didn’t keep track of his score but after a 3 hr 45 min round he had to have been under 80. Fairways and greens on every hole. We had a beverage after the round and I asked him if he played often and what his handicap was. He said he got out a couple of times a week at home and didn’t currently have a handicap but used to be a 6. He thought he was playing a bit better than that now. Moral of the story: you don’t need to see the result to get the result — Dave Jones RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=jonesd

Response:

Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with?

Rounding the turn, #10 was getting backed up so the marshall wanted me (playing single) to move up to #11. Well it turned out that the pair on 11 was what was backing things up. It was a couple from out of town on a date who were half snockered with a picnic lunch and a few Buds. It’s cruel to characterize from appearance, but my read was "retired porn stars". The guy had a good swing, but 20 year old clubs and was really proud of his vintage hickory shafted putter (!!!). The lady was impeded by her silicon bobbing around to some extent so she wasn’t all that good. Still they were having a hell of a good time but were chemically oblivious to the concept of pace of play. I did three holes, then lied about calling it a day and skipped forward one (vacant) hole. I recall that I did get a nice hug goodbye!

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I’m not sure which is more pathetic. Golfers cheating, or you whining about it, as if it matters.

Response:

I gave you a 30-day money-back guarantee, Mr. Jones. Your 30 days were up a long time ago. By the way, I never said you should completely alter your swing. I only suggested that you might want to consider thinking about contemplating the possibility of completely altering your swing. Someday.

Response:

Moral of the story: you don’t need to see the result to get the result

I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers. -JR

Response:

Heh. My first caddie at Bandon did that…he’d reach down to clean the ball, not mark it, move it somewhere between two and six inches, and set it back down. The first time he did it, I just watched and tried to figure it out. The second time he did it, I just laughed. I mean, six inches on a forty footer? The way *I* putt? C’mon… Luckily, The Family saw it the same way I did, and we just let him do it. Good laugh at dinner that night (possibly because we were into bottle #3 of Frog’s Leap by that point…) Prof. Rev. Todd "Runyan" McGillivray, Esq. http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net. "Not sure what four nines does, but the ace, I think, is pretty high." – Danny Ocean, Ocean’s Eleven

Response:

Moral of the story: you don’t need to see the result to get the result I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers. -JR

I didn’t need that first thing Monday morning!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is one I just don’t get. I was joined up with a threesome as a single the other day and got to seem some interesting "golf." One of the guys consistently placed his marker in front of his ball when marking, then would place his ball as though he had marked it behind the ball… wtf, does that extra inch really make all the difference? And how did the guys he was taking/giving dollars to not notice (I guess they probably ignored it since it seems basically pointless.) These guys never hit a fairway but somehow were always making par. It was quite an interesting round. I guess the only benefit was getting to put my bag on the odd man’s cart and not having to carry: can’t complain about that. (oh, first tee, 2/3 whiffed). Anyone have any interesting stories about "golfers" they have played with? — bollod

I remember a round of golf with some dude about 4 years ago who substituted a ball on the putting green, it was a real soft mushy type ball, almost like a nerf thing or something. He called it his putting ball. And he tapped all around the cup with his putter before every putt. I was fairly new to the game, but I knew that something was wrong with that. tim

Response:

I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers.

call me a troller while some college prof is quoting terrorists.something about not seeing results but getting results.if that was not disrespectful to the 2800 who died and their families i dont know what would be.

Response:

I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers. call me a troller while some college prof is quoting terrorists.something about not seeing results but getting results.if that was not disrespectful to the 2800 who died and their families i dont know what would be.

Have you ever posted anything golf related? Why don’t you get off of your high horse and post some golf stuff?? Or are you really just a troll???

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers. call me a troller while some college prof is quoting terrorists.something about not seeing results but getting results.if that was not disrespectful to the 2800 who died and their families i dont know what would be. Have you ever posted anything golf related? Why don’t you get off of your high horse and post some golf stuff?? Or are you really just a troll???

right Dave and if someone emailed you about the club, you would not have sold it. No I am not a fucking troll and I will talk about any fucking thing I want.I talk plenty of golf but I pick my topics.Get off with your name calling.

Response:

no, Mr. Andercom, I would not have sold it…because it wasn’t for sale. I made an attempt at off handed humor and the only one that has had a problem with it is you. And, yes you are a troll…and your language skills are atrocious. Grow up!

Response:

And just how was that disrespectful? Do you even know the meaning of the word? Did you somehow interpet the remark to be an approval of thei terrorists’ actions? You’re not only a troll, you’re a complete f***ing moronl. -JR Not a college prof

Response:

loser

Response:

"Dave Jones" no, Mr. Andercom, I would not have sold it…because it wasn’t for sale. I made an attempt at off handed humor

yes I am sure

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe that was the motto of the f***ing 9-11 hijackers. call me a troller while some college prof is quoting terrorists.something about not seeing results but getting results.if that was not disrespectful to the 2800 who died and their families i dont know what would be. And just how was that disrespectful? Do you even know the meaning of the word? Did you somehow interpet the remark to be an approval of thei terrorists’ actions? You’re not only a troll, you’re a complete f***ing moronl. -JR Not a college prof

maybe you dont know any one who has ever died?maybe your just too young to understand.your name calling is a cry for attention

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you are a troll…and your language skills are atrocious

yes I must sign up for that typing class at the local jr college.

Response:

maybe you dont know any one who has ever died?maybe your just too young to understand.your name calling is a cry for attention

This coming from the fucking moron who could not defend his positon so resorted to calling me a loser in his last post. I actually feel kind of honored to be called a loser by the likes of a two cent shitweasel like you. Thank you, JR PS- Learn how to type.

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two cent shitweasel

Maybe you are misanthropic?

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I’m researching an article on cheating in golf and would appreciate comments on two simple questions: 1) Why do you think playing by the book is still so sacrosanct in golf when in every other sport a little cheating here and there has become accepted as the norm? 2) Given this hard line against rule-breaking, what factors other than money, if any, do you think push a golfer over the edge in search of an unfair advantage? I’d like to quote the best responses I get, so perhaps anyone replying (especially British golfers) could mention the name of his/her club. To the many people who responded to my initial post some weeks ago, requesting ‘tricks of the trade’, many thanks; it was a great help (purely from a writing viewpoint….) Jeffrey Prest Freelance sportswriter – American sports, golf, soccer, rugby, cricket Reliable service at reasonable rates Find my ‘Sportscribe’ website at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jepre/

Response:

Most other sports are, IMHO, not steeped in such tradition as golf. I also believe that the golf athlete, while competing against the field, has an internal competition against himself…aiming for constant improvement of their game. 2) Given this hard line against rule-breaking, what factors other than money, if any, do you think push a golfer over the edge in search of an unfair advantage?

Lack of the personal drive I mentioned above. Spam protection in my "reply to" address… Brian Levetzow (Levetzowbtatjunodotcom) ~ Laurel, Maryland Man does not live on bread alone. He needs a homebrew to go with it.

Response:

|I’m researching an article on cheating in golf and would appreciate |comments on two simple questions: | |1) Why do you think playing by the book is still so sacrosanct in golf |when in every other sport a little cheating here and there has become |accepted as the norm? What other sports accept cheating as the norm? I’ve played soccer, softball, golf, raquetball, basketball, etc. Nobody that I play with accepts cheating is the norm, and everyone I play with knows that if they cheat, they will get penalized. Golf is no different. Sure, sometimes you have to call somebody on their cheating, but I can’t see that any different just because it’s golf. I think the bigger issue with golf is that there aren’t any referees or umpires following everyone around throwing yellow markers or blowing their whistles. The players normally have to enforce the rules, and alot of people have a hard time doing this. You go and tell your boss that his foot-wedge is illegal , or the next mult-million dollar client can’t card a 5 after taking 8 swings to get out of a bunker. |2) Given this hard line against rule-breaking, what factors other than |money, if any, do you think push a golfer over the edge in search of |an unfair advantage? Again, this isn’t a golf thing. As for why cheaters cheat, it could be self-esteem related, or laziness, or lack of discipline, or just plain ignorance. Then there is the rare occasion where the cheater is just enjoys screwing somebody because they think they can, or because they don’t see any advantage as unfair. Advantage is advantage, no matter how they get it.

Response:

What other sports accept cheating as the norm? I’ve played soccer, softball, golf, raquetball, basketball, etc.

If you are talking about amateurs/hackers playing against each other for fun I would tend to agree with you. But to give you one example of how different it can be when the stakes are higher. Watch a professional basketball game. Watch the guys away from the ball. Watch them look around to see where the referee is, then grab the back of someone’s jersey to keep them from going for a rebound (I recently saw Dennis Rodman do this several times in one televised game, in fact the announcers even showed him doing it once in a slo-mo instant replay). And I am not picking just on Dennis Rodman as there are many others that do similar things. In many sports, especially the major pro sports, a big part of the game is to see how badly you can bend/break the rules and still get away with it. In football there is intentional illegal holding on virtually every play. It is so pervasive that referees usually just ignore it unless it is blatant and has a direct outcome on the play. And I can’t remember seeing any of these guys going up to the ref after their unseen infraction and saying "Gee ref, I just broke a rule, please penalize my for it". I have seen and read about a number of pro golfers calling infractions on themselves. He who laughs last thinks slowest!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m researching an article on cheating in golf and would appreciate comments on two simple questions: 1) Why do you think playing by the book is still so sacrosanct in golf when in every other sport a little cheating here and there has become accepted as the norm? 2) Given this hard line against rule-breaking, what factors other than money, if any, do you think push a golfer over the edge in search of an unfair advantage? I’d like to quote the best responses I get, so perhaps anyone replying (especially British golfers) could mention the name of his/her club.

I do not think that playing by the book is uniquely sacrosanct to golf. I think it is still very common in all activities where the player is the sole person responsible for their own actions. An independant arbiter (umpire, referee, judge) takes responsibility for descisions away from indivual players and allows the players to adopt a policy of "if the ref did not say it was wrong then it must be okay". Most golf, however, is not played under the watchful eye of an official. Having implied that golf is basically honest, I have come across a fair number on instances where a player has clearly broken the rules, to their advantage, and ignored the fact. Most of the cheating I have observed has arisen from ignorance and from ego. It could be argued that advantages gained by breaking the rules in ignorance is not cheating but at the end of the day one player has gained over others by not following the rules and in my book ignorance is no excuse. Ego, both in the desire to be best and the desire to not look stupid / out of place, does seem to be a big motivator for rule bending. Crispin Roche (a British golfer who is not a member of a club)

Response:

I don’t think in other sports cheating is accepted..how can you cheat? There are refs and umps that call the games….there are however, bad calls, but who is going to call themselves out it they can get away with it? 2) Given this hard line against rule-breaking, what factors other than money, if any, do you think push a golfer over the edge in search of an unfair advantage?

Ego is the only thing I can think of for cheating at golf. Personally, I can’t/won’t cheat (intentionally). I may forget a stoke, but eventually recall it and correct the error. I’d like to quote the best responses I get, so perhaps anyone replying (especially British golfers) could mention the name of his/her club. To the many people who responded to my initial post some weeks ago, requesting ‘tricks of the trade’, many thanks; it was a great help (purely from a writing viewpoint….) Jeffrey Prest Freelance sportswriter – American sports, golf, soccer, rugby, cricket Reliable service at reasonable rates Find my ‘Sportscribe’ website at http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jepre/

– Joyce I was thinking about how people seem to read the Bible a whole lot more as they get older then it dawned on me . . . they were cramming for their finals.

Response:

I may be picky here but I’ve *rarely* played a round where one of the four in my group (most times playing with 3 strangers) doesn’t cheat somehow. I’m not talking major stuff here but here are some common ones that I’ve seen (never played in a tourney so I am not sure what happens there): – ‘fluffing’ up the lie of the ball in the rough or fairway – outright moving the ball to a better lie (without taking a penalty stroke) – taking gimme’s without being given them Like I said, nothing here is major but I find it irritating. I’ve even had people fluff up my lie for me! (after which point I respectfully request that I prefer to play it as it lies because I’ll never learn to hit from bad situations otherwise)… I had a guy put down the flagstick as my putt was in motion and seeing that it was going to be in the way, left it there! (of course my ball hit the stick lying on the ground and stopped – unfortunately I assumed he saw what I saw and would have held it up). I’m still a +22 player and realize that maybe I’m taking this stuff too seriously but it still unnerves me. I don’t usually say anything, especially to strangers, and have a good laugh when someone has shot the same score as mine on a hole where he/she clearly should have taken a penalty stroke. So, I guess my point after all this ranting [ ) ] would be that "a little cheating here and there" *HAS* become the norm. Jen

Response:

Jeffrey, Golf is one of the few sports where you referee yourself. In almost all other sports there is an umpire or referee who’s job it is to tell you that you made a mistake. Someone else pointed out that this seems to create an attitude of "if the ump didn’t see it it must be OK". I would have to agree with that, after all, when was the last time you saw a footbal player call himself for holding or a batter call a strike on himself. It seems that the first thing a lot of football players do when the play is over is look towards the official to see if they got caught. Baseball players argue balls, strikes, put-outs, etc. Tennis players argue line calls and hockey players trip oppenents and hope the referee didn’t see them. Another thing about golf is that it is an individual sport. Often you are playing with people you have never met before, may never see again and who have no financial interest in the outcome of your game. Why cheat when you are playing against yourself? What possible gain could there be? There is no one to catch you, so there is no risk and you are not playing against anyone so there is no reward. In fact, you wind up cheating yourself out of a score that reflects your true abilities. This becomes very important when you meet your buddies for a game of $2 skins and you are playing with a handicap made up of your cheating scores! I think that most of the cheating in golf is caused by ignorance of the rules. Golf is a very simple game. Hit the ball until it goes into the cup. It is the rules of the game that can become very complex. Add to that the fact that most golfers have never even read the basic rules of play and you have a lot of potential penalties waiting to happen. And the golfer doesn’t even know they are breaking the rules. Yes, some deliberate cheating in tournaments and matches does occur. When I see it happening I call it on the player. If he/she does not correct the situation I will never play with that individual in a match again. If it is in an official tournament I will inform the committee and they can make the decision about what to do. Hope this helps Dan Driscoll

Response:

.there are however, bad calls, but who is going to call themselves out it they can get away with it? Cricketers, even at international level with big bucks on the line, quite often call themselves out even when the umpire has called them safe. Maybe this doesn’t happen as often as it used to, but you still see it a lot. The other thing is they don’t argue bad calls – the most they do is kind of give a searching, hurt look under their brows in the direction of the ump and maybe jab the ground a little (but not too much or they’ll be booed by the crowd) before walking. – Eddie Haynes-Smart, Cape Town, South Africa

Response:

Watched an NBA game lately? Seems like "traveling" doesn’t exist anymore. I’m surprised the guys bother to dribble at all. — "Womens is like streetcars – the ocean is full of ‘em." -Archie Bunker

Response:

Hey, I’m from Canada and to cheat at hockey is not only accepted but required. Some coaches promote a scrappy type of play which translates to "cheat as much as possible but don’t get caught". That’s why fights break out in a lot of cases. Coaches teach "don’t retaliate". Kick a puck in the net without getting caught and your teamates will extol your virtues as a fine hockey player. Team-competitive, aggressive sports demand that you do what you can to win. This inevitably involves cheating. (Do you remember Diago Maradona scoring a goal in the World Cup Soccer match with his fist! It looked like it went off his head but the replay showed it went off his hand. He did the normal 100 metre dash afterword around the stadium, jumping to the crowd.) Now (interestingly), this leads into my question … I’ll be playing in a match play tournament (first time) and want to know some match play tactics, both fair and unfair – not that I’d use an unfair tactic – that I could use or that may be used on me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m researching an article on cheating in golf and would appreciate comments on two simple questions: 1) Why do you think playing by the book is still so sacrosanct in golf when in every other sport a little cheating here and there has become accepted as the norm? I don’t think in other sports cheating is accepted..how can you cheat? There are refs and umps that call the games….there are however, bad calls, but who is going to call themselves out it they can get away with it? Watched an NBA game lately? Seems like "traveling" doesn’t exist anymore. I’m surprised the guys bother to dribble at all.

Actually, dear YoYo, I was even more amazed that Dear Mr. Shaq merely turns and charges every time he takes the ball and the other guy always draws the foul. Go figure!!!! — "Man blames fate for other accidents but feels personally responsible for a hole in one." –Martha Beckman

Response:

Watched an NBA game lately? Seems like "traveling" doesn’t exist anymore. I’m surprised the guys bother to dribble at all. Actually, dear YoYo, I was even more amazed that Dear Mr. Shaq merely turns and charges every time he takes the ball and the other guy always draws the foul. Go figure!!!!

Yep. Cheating in other sports may require the complicity or imcompetence of the ref, but it still happens. — "Womens is like streetcars – the ocean is full of ‘em." -Archie Bunker

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I’m from Canada and to cheat at hockey is not only accepted but required. Some coaches promote a scrappy type of play which translates to "cheat as much as possible but don’t get caught". That’s why fights break out in a lot of cases. Coaches teach "don’t retaliate". Kick a puck in the net without getting caught and your teamates will extol your virtues as a fine hockey player. Team-competitive, aggressive sports demand that you do what you can to win. This inevitably involves cheating. (Do you remember Diago Maradona scoring a goal in the World Cup Soccer match with his fist! It looked like it went off his head but the replay showed it went off his hand. He did the normal 100 metre dash afterword around the stadium, jumping to the crowd.) Now (interestingly), this leads into my question … I’ll be playing in a match play tournament (first time) and want to know some match play tactics, both fair and unfair – not that I’d use an unfair tactic – that I could use or that may be used on me.

Early in the match, don’t make your opponent putt out gimmies… as oong as you are keeping pace with him. Then later in the match in a critical situation, make him put them out. By not having putted short putts all day, his knees should shake pretty hard when faced with even a very short putt.

Response:

Baseball is one game where an umpire will see a rules violation and not call it unless a proper appeal is made by the opposing team. If the appeal is not made, or botched somehow, the play stands. For example, batter hits a home run and misses touching first base on his way around. To properly appeal the play, the pitcher must throw the ball to the first base man, who must catch the ball, stand on the base, and make it apparent to the umpire that he is apealling the play. Only then will the umpire rule on the appeal. If first base drops the ball, or the pitcher throws to another base first, the chance to appeal is lost. So, the run can count, even though the umpire has witnessed the rule violation. In fact, the umpire is not supposed to give any indication that he saw the rule violation until the appeal is made. Somehow seems to capture the American spirit .

Response:

Steelhead PLus Vs. Steelhead III

admin — Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have the Steelhead III driver and 3W… they are pretty good for forgivness. The fairway wood is excellent and has become a club I now can’t live without. Just my 2 cents Darrin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc. Thanks, Ken

Response:

I have the Steelhead III driver and 3W… they are pretty good for forgivness. The fairway wood is excellent and has become a club I now can’t live without. Just my 2 cents

Do you use it off the deck or from a tee or both

Response:

I had played with a Steelhead Plus driver for a year or so before also purchasing a Steelhead III 3 wood in May 2002. I’m not comparing the exact club, but I would say the Steelhead III does what the marketing/advertisements say – a larger sweetspot, better distance (I think there is some VFT effect) than the SH Plus. I hit the SH III 3 wood nearly as far as the Steelhead plus driver. (I have the uniflex steel shaft in both). In short, both are good clubs but I think you would be happier going ahead and paying for the SH III

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc. Thanks, Ken

Response:

Both… I’ve never had a problem hitting it from the fairway

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have the Steelhead III driver and 3W… they are pretty good for forgivness. The fairway wood is excellent and has become a club I now can’t live without. Just my 2 cents Do you use it off the deck or from a tee or both

Response:

Callaway does make the best fairway woods. re: the Steelhead Plus vs, the SH III. I’ve have heard that the SH III has a significant draw bias compared to the SH Plus, SH, and the BB Warbird. This is probably why it has not gained the acceptance of pro golfers as evidenced by the absence of SH III woods in pro bags in favor of the more neutral SH Plus, SH, and BB Warbird. Additionally, my own experience tells me what makes the SH fairway woods so good does not translate into the SH driver being a club worthy of ownership. The SH driver sucks compared to the Ti alternatives in the driver category.

Response:

I play Steelhead Plus 5, 7, 9. I had a GBB Hawkeye 3-wood but wanted something closer to my Pluses. Thought I would upgrade. I bought a Steelhead III, played it a few times, always off the fairway, did not care for the feel, sound, or performance of it. Traded it to Callaway Pre-Owned for a Steelhead Plus 3 and am glad I did. Maybe the III was just too different from my Pluses. In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had played with a Steelhead Plus driver for a year or so before also purchasing a Steelhead III 3 wood in May 2002. I’m not comparing the exact club, but I would say the Steelhead III does what the marketing/advertisements say – a larger sweetspot, better distance (I think there is some VFT effect) than the SH Plus. I hit the SH III 3 wood nearly as far as the Steelhead plus driver. (I have the uniflex steel shaft in both). In short, both are good clubs but I think you would be happier going ahead and paying for the SH III Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc. Thanks, Ken

Response:

Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc. Thanks, Ken

Response:

Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc.

Isn’t "playability" more or less the opposite of "reducing slice"?

Response:

I’ve heard that the Steelhead Plus is a very good fairway wood. I’ve played the Steelhead III and can tell you that it’s a very good club. Distance and forgiveness were very good. Size was pleasing, not too big, not to small. Good luck with your decision. Chris S.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would like to know how these 2 rate against each other for both 3W and Driver. Playability, size, feel, reducing slice etc. Thanks, Ken

Response:

Ribbed, or Round Grips??

admin — Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Somewhat confusingly, the ‘mark’ that contains the ‘R’ (eg. R58) is

the ‘ribbed’ version, and not the ‘Round’ version as some would expect! Mixed series could just be a stocking matter, not a production / movement concern. For the record, he also told me that their biggest seller is the Tour

Velvet grip. THAT did not surprise me. I think it might be one of the cheapest quality grips around,

"Tour Velvet" is like Chevrolet, they offer about 10 different series of grips, and they all do not exhibit a "cheap" price. Quality is something else, I have always found them to be as represented.

$$$ Pro Golfers

admin — Wed, 30 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

@slb5.atl.mindspring.net: Do you think the "purse" is divided equitably amonst the winning players, and that it is adequate? No. I think a portion of it should be paid to those of us who watch the telecasts.

You get most of them for free. Freeloader.

Response:

Do you think the "purse" is divided equitably amonst the winning players, and that it is adequate?

No. I think a portion of it should be paid to those of us who watch the telecasts. Randy

Response:

No, the purse is not divided equitably. It should be like NASCAR that figure in number of laps completed, and how many laps you lead. It is theoretically possible for a lower position to win more money than the ultimate winner. Lead one or more days: $$ Lowest round: $$ Most rounds played in a month/year: $$ ad nauseum…….

Huh? And the team that leads the NFC Championship game at the end of the first quarter should get to play a half in the Super Bowl, right? And any team that scores in the MLB League Championship Series should get at least one at-bat in the World Series. This makes no sense. Randy

Response:

I would assume that a pro golfer on the pga circuit has his share of the – ups and downs. As one knows, pro status does not come into being over night. It takes time, dedication, and hard work to reach it. Do you think the "purse" is divided equitably amonst the winning players, and that it is adequate?

Pro's and unplayable lie rule…

admin — Thu, 17 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have not seen Jerry Kelly’s misery on the 1st hole today, but I’ve often wondered why pro golfers are so hesitant to use the unplayable lie rule to their advantage. Occasionally I’ll see a golf hit a miserable shot then hit an ever more miserable shot trying to recover from the previous one (trying to hit from under a bush or out of the deep junk). Sometimes it seems like it would be beneficial to just take the one stroke penalty and drop the ball in a better spot or go back and hit it again from the previous spot. But it’s almost like their ego gets in the way and prevents them from invoking the unplayable lie rule. Any thoughts? Neal B. Richmond, VA

Response:

The problem is whether taking the penalty gives you a shot at the green. Unless it is absolutely impossible to put a club on the ball, avoid the penalty if you think you can punch out and make the green on your next shot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not seen Jerry Kelly’s misery on the 1st hole today, but I’ve often wondered why pro golfers are so hesitant to use the unplayable lie rule to their advantage. Occasionally I’ll see a golf hit a miserable shot then hit an ever more miserable shot trying to recover from the previous one (trying to hit from under a bush or out of the deep junk). Sometimes it seems like it would be beneficial to just take the one stroke penalty and drop the ball in a better spot or go back and hit it again from the previous spot. But it’s almost like their ego gets in the way and prevents them from invoking the unplayable lie rule. Any thoughts? Neal B. Richmond, VA

Response:

2 reasons: a) they are so damn good that they usually *can* improve their lie by hitting the ball somewhere else, rather than dropping b) sometimes a drop for an unplayable lie is going to result in another lie just about as unplayable.

Response:

I didn’t see it either, but sometimes it’s damn hard to get a good drop from the first lie. He could always go back, I guess, but the pros usually think they’ll be able to move it some. Just my guess. Dave

Response:

@slb9.atl.mindspring.net: I have not seen Jerry Kelly’s misery on the 1st hole today,

Someone asked him how he got an 11 on the first hole, and he said "I drained a 30 foot putt". LOL!

Response:

Overweight pro golfers

admin — Tue, 08 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Your figuring on the minimum possible distance. Golf isn’t played that way. Double it and you will be close. There is a lot of walking without even going anywhere and a lot of zigging and zagging. So maybe 300 calories to walk a course. 1800 calories is a pipe dream.

Every figure I’ve ever seen suggests it’s at least 1200 for a 150 pound man. General figure for walking is 100 calories per mile… any speed, 150 pound man. Let’s say 6 miles for a round… 600 calories. Just standing around burns about 100 calories per hour. 5 hour round… 500 calories (yea, I know I’ve overlapped a bit). But that’s 1100 calories.

Response:

This was the last post I read last nite before retiring, and it kept me awake thinking about it (I know, get a life . I just couldn’t see how you’d only burn 300 calories in a four-hour walk on a golf course. My goodness, with a 2000-calorie-a-day diet with which you don’t gain weight, you’re *averaging* over 83 calories an hour, and that’s including rest periods. So a 4-hour walking golf round would have to be at least 332 calories, right? And that’s got to be the floor number of calories burned for a person on a no-weight-gain 2000-calorie diet. I checked out the web for a calorie exercise calculator, and found this one: http://www.caloriecontrol.org/exercalc.html I don’t vouch for its accuracy, but they don’t appear to have any ax to grind, so let’s accept it as reasonably accurate for now (willing to accept others’ evaluation of it, of course). Here’s what it says: For the activity "Golfing (no carts, please)", which takes 4 hours, a 150-pound golfer will burn 1044 calories. Here’s the interesting thing: according to the calculator, a 230-pound golfer (me!) will burn, during the same time, 1600.8 calories. Other observations: I presume they’ve included carrying or pulling 20 pounds-worth of clubs/bag/balls/etc. in that. What’s interesting to me is that the amount of calories burned is quite dependent on the weight of the golfer, so to say as a generalization that golfing burns "x" number of calories is simply not going to work. It’s not apparent what kind of course they’re talking about. My local course is fairly hilly; it’s harder to walk it carrying or pulling clubs than it is to walk a relatively flat course. So I’d presume I burn more calories on my course than other flatter courses. Of course, you’re not going to lose the "x" calories of weight the calculator says; you’ll only lose the calories over and above the number you’d otherwise have burned. For the most sedentary activity I could find to compare–watching TV–in my case (230 pounds) according to the calculator, I’d burn 441.6 calories. So walking while golfing, for me, would burn about 1159.2 calories–at maximum–more than most anything else I might be doing. They do note, as a disclaimer, "Note: Figures are based on moderate (as opposed to vigorous) activity. A heavier person burns more calories, so the same amount of physical activity can actually burn the same number of calories but more quickly. But remember, exercising harder and faster only increases the calories expended slightly. To burn more calories it is better to exercise for a longer time." and "Determining how many calories you burn is not an exact science. This number should only be used as an estimate of calorie expenditure. " Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!

Response:

Snip… So if Tiger played a 5 hour round that would be 2,460 calories burned,

Huh? 294*5 = 1470… not 2460?

Response:

How come Shaq isn’t a jockey in the Kentucky Derby? People are made different. tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This source http://www.fitresource.com/Fitness/CalBurn.htm and this source http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist.htm say that a 175 pound person burns 492 calories per HOUR playing golf. How many hours a week do you think pro golfers spend playing golf, not to even mention practicing. Lets see that chart says you burn 294 calories/hour playing golf with a cart and 336 calories/hour for general gymnastics. What? Huh? Playing golf with cart is basically sitting for 55 minutes, swinging 1 minute and walking 4 minutes, and according to that chart you only burn 10% less calories then general gymnastics? This article http://www.egolfweekly.com/2002/columns/guestcolumns/halpert_goodride… states that the author logged in 7.1 actual miles during a round of golf on a 6200 yard course. Yep, I can believe that. I don’t know what size bagel your eating, but a plain bagel and a cheeseburger at McDonalds both contain 350 calories each. A fresh standard bagel that is usually sold at restaurants and bakeries, I think its 200 grams. You call that thing served at Mcdonalds a bagel? A Bud Light, my standard beer, has only 96 calories. A regular Coke has 140 calories. Keep in mind all calories are not the same. For instance calories from protien and fat are harder for you body to convert into energy than calories from simple carbohydrates. (Refer to any of the high fat and protein diets these days.) Stop reading those books, a calorie is a calorie, read a physics book. It may take longer for the body to extract the energy from protein, but… wait why are we even talking about this

In the past calories from alcohol and fat were treated the same. There is some new studies that indicate that your body does not metabolize 100% of alcohol calories consumed. In other words you piss it away. If this turns out to be true, then in one sense all calories are not equal anymore. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes. So if Tiger played a 5 hour round that would be 2,460 calories burned, which means he would need to consume about 6 cheeseburgers and wash them down with a six pack of Bud Light just to make up for the round of golf. This doesn’t take into account him going to the range after the round and hitting balls until dark. The 2,460 calories is bogus. I have played daily rounds of golf for weeks on end (walking, carrying bag) and my daily intake varies from 2200-2600 calories total (I’m 6 foot, 175 pounds), I would be dead long ago according to that table.

That is too high… 175 pound man… more like 1400 or 1500 per round (walk n carry). Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up. It dosen’t add up because the tables you referenced don’t reflect reality.

Still… they eat a lot. OTOH… there are a few fat NBA basketball players. Even harder to see how this can happen. If you will notice, even Tiger has put on a few pounds in the last 5 years. Mostly lean muscle mass, but in order to gain weight of any kind, he has to be eating more calories than is required for him to play golf, work out, date , etc.

Response:

I’d put it more like 1200 for 180 holes, carrying your bag, 150 pound man. Simply walking unladen does about 100 calories per mile for a 150 pound man… at any speed. An intense hour at the driving range will be about 250 calories. I’m 52, walk 18 holes carrying a bag most days, eat mostly low fat no calorie stuff, and haven’t exactly been wasting away. What walking will do for you is build up muscle and endurance and give you a modest cardio vascular boost.

If you do add some muscle, you will increase your calorie burnining capacity and should loose more weight and faster… As for overweight golfers, they are probably just like overweight people everywhere — their genes program them to put on weight and unless they take significant steps to avoid food and get a lot more intensive excercise than walking a golf course they are going to get and stay heavy. Of course I doubt that these guys actually walk most of their practice rounds, but they do stay in good enough shape to walk 36 in a day in high heat without letting it hurt their performance.

Even if they only walk 4 rounds… they probably do that 30 weeks a year (at least). At 1200 calories per round (they don’t carry clubs), that’s 4800 calories per week (about 1.3 pounds per week), times 30 weeks = 144000 calories, divided by 3500 (calories in a pound) is just over 41 pounds per year. That’s roughly the same as someone that drinks three 12 ounce (150 calorie) soft drinks per day (365) switching to water… about 45 pounds worth of calories. But this person is not getting any of the benefits of activity, like muscle building, cardio etc. To not loose any weight, a tour pro has to consume a enought calories to offset what they burn playing golf. Someone that is all muscle and little fat like Tiger will burn calories at a higher rate than say John Daly (if they are similar weights). A normal 180 pound man might need 2300 calories per day to maintain 180 pounds with normal activity. Tiger *may* need nearly 4000. Suprisingly the estimates for palying golf with a powered cart comes in at arouund 2/3 of walk and carry… you still walk a lot even when you ride.

Response:

Running burns about 450 calories an hour on the flat. I run 7 to 8 miles an hour, which means it would take me about half an hour to run a golf course. So maybe 300 calories to walk a course. 1800 calories is a pipe dream.

450 calories an hour ? Maybe if you’re 100 pounds….one’s weight has a significant influence on how many calories a person burns at most activities. If I ran 7 MPH I would burn closer to 1200 to 1400 calories per hour. Walking 7 miles would easily burn roughly the same. Walking / running the same distance burns essentially the SAME number of calories.

Response:

I’m just refering to sources to back-up my claim. Do you have any sources to refute them, or just your own opinion. A fresh standard bagel that is usually sold at restaurants and bakeries, I think its 200 grams. You call that thing served at Mcdonalds a bagel?

Look… I know what a bagel is, I was simply using the McDonalds bagel as an example of typical calories. For instance calories from protien and fat are harder for you body to convert into energy than calories from simple carbohydrates. (Refer to any of the high fat and protein diets these days.) Stop reading those books, a calorie is a calorie, read a physics book. It may take longer for the body to extract the energy from protein, but… wait why are we even talking about this

No. A calorie is not a calorie. There has been more research on this subject than you can shake a stick at and planty of studies to back this up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes. So if Tiger played a 5 hour round that would be 2,460 calories burned, which means he would need to consume about 6 cheeseburgers and wash them down with a six pack of Bud Light just to make up for the round of golf. This doesn’t take into account him going to the range after the round and hitting balls until dark. The 2,460 calories is bogus. I have played daily rounds of golf for weeks on end (walking, carrying bag) and my daily intake varies from 2200-2600 calories total (I’m 6 foot, 175 pounds), I would be dead long ago according to that table.

Perhaps you should come up with your own calorie charts that would be more accurate than all of the ones in the diet books. You can base them all on anecdotal evidence and not scientific research. If you trained wisely with weights 30 minutes 3x per week, practiced your golf 2x per week, played 36 holes per week and ate a sensible diet including moderate beer, wine and deserts, you could have a nice body and a pretty damn good golf game too. Well I don’t know what you mean by nice so its hard to agree or disagree with you.

I guess we could change the "nice body" part to "an optimim body for the individual’s genetic make-up". Perhaps that would sound more politically correct. Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up. It dosen’t add up because the tables you referenced don’t reflect reality.

Like I said… Maybe your own charts would be more accurate. What is your point? Pro golfers don’t burn but maybe 500 more calories a day than the average Joe and that extra banana and granola bar at the turn is what makes some of them overweight?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read recently on some website that when you walk and carry your bag during a round of golf that you burn over 1800 calories. I, myself, have lost from 185 down to 175 since I resumed playing this season, and I look pretty good for a 41 year old guy, even when I don’t hit the weights like I should. I walk only 27 holes a week and go to the range once a week. If I ate like I eat now and played as much as the pros do I would look like a Kenyan distance runner. That doesn’t account for all those post round brews and brats at the turn Seriously though I think that figure has to be bogus. I’m 52, walk 18 holes carrying a bag most days, eat mostly low fat no calorie stuff, and haven’t exactly been wasting away. What walking will do for you is build up muscle and endurance and give you a modest cardio vascular boost. As for overweight golfers, they are probably just like overweight people everywhere — their genes program them to put on weight and unless they take significant steps to avoid food and get a lot more intensive excercise than walking a golf course they are going to get and stay heavy. Of course I doubt that these guys actually walk most of their practice rounds, but they do stay in good enough shape to walk 36 in a day in high heat without letting it hurt their performance.

Heat is not a factor…the exercise comes from moving. A 7000 yard course is just under 7 clicks…which is approx 4 miles. In terms of burning calories it’s the total distance moved…stopping has little to do with total calorie burn. Walking 4 miles a day would be great exercise for most. My guess is that the heavier golfers do eat a good size buffet. Eating low fat is no guarentee that you are eating low calorie…

Response:

Lets see that chart says you burn 294 calories/hour playing golf with a cart and 336 calories/hour for general gymnastics. What? Huh? Playing golf with cart is basically sitting for 55 minutes, swinging 1 minute and walking 4 minutes, and according to that chart you only burn 10% less calories then general gymnastics? This article http://www.egolfweekly.com/2002/columns/guestcolumns/halpert_goodride… states that the author logged in 7.1 actual miles during a round of golf on a 6200 yard course.

Yep, I can believe that. I don’t know what size bagel your eating, but a plain bagel and a cheeseburger at McDonalds both contain 350 calories each.

A fresh standard bagel that is usually sold at restaurants and bakeries, I think its 200 grams. You call that thing served at Mcdonalds a bagel? A Bud Light, my standard beer, has only 96 calories. A regular Coke has 140 calories. Keep in mind all calories are not the same.

For instance calories from protien and fat are harder for you body to convert into energy than calories from simple carbohydrates. (Refer to any of the high fat and protein diets these days.)

Stop reading those books, a calorie is a calorie, read a physics book. It may take longer for the body to extract the energy from protein, but… wait why are we even talking about this To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes. So if Tiger played a 5 hour round that would be 2,460 calories burned, which means he would need to consume about 6 cheeseburgers and wash them down with a six pack of Bud Light just to make up for the round of golf. This doesn’t take into account him going to the range after the round and hitting balls until dark.

The 2,460 calories is bogus. I have played daily rounds of golf for weeks on end (walking, carrying bag) and my daily intake varies from 2200-2600 calories total (I’m 6 foot, 175 pounds), I would be dead long ago according to that table. If you trained wisely with weights 30 minutes 3x per week, practiced your golf 2x per week, played 36 holes per week and ate a sensible diet including moderate beer, wine and deserts, you could have a nice body and a pretty damn good golf game too.

Well I don’t know what you mean by nice so its hard to agree or disagree with you. Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up.

It dosen’t add up because the tables you referenced don’t reflect reality.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read recently on some website that when you walk and carry your bag during a round of golf that you burn over 1800 calories. I, myself, have lost from 185 down to 175 since I resumed playing this season, and I look pretty good for a 41 year old guy, even when I don’t hit the weights like I should. I walk only 27 holes a week and go to the range once a week. If I ate like I eat now and played as much as the pros do I would look like a Kenyan distance runner. Pro golfers, I would assume, walk at least 5 rounds a week, practice often and follow some sort of fitness regimen. I don’t see how any of them can be overweight, unless they have some sort of all you can eat buffet every night at the PGA and LPGA events. It seems to me if they all simply ate reasonably and hit the weights just a little, they would all have bodies similar to Tiger or Annika. What’s the deal? Do all of the overweight ones simply eat like Refridgerator Perry? There is no way its anywhere near 1800 calories. Walking 5 miles burns 500 calories for an average size male. Add a 20 lb bag, maybe 600 calories. A bagel is 650 calories without any butter or sour cream, so its very easy to replace the calories with a single snack, and thats assuming you eat perfect the rest of the day. Add a slab of butter here and there, a beer, any resturant food and its fat city. I suppose eating out is the biggest problem for them to maintain any kind of decent diet. To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes. If you played as much as the pros you wouldn’t eat like you eat now, your appetite would increase.

He’s right…walking with someone else carrying your bag will burn at most 500 calaries over resting rate. Suck down two sodas or a dog at the turn or a couple of gatorades and you break even. Walking a golf course is great exercise. However, to be truly fit, you need to do a whole lot more.

Response:

Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up.

So why do you insist that the math is correct? Seriously, walking 18 holes with a caddy at a leisury tempo is not much of an exercise. It will barely raise your heart rate at all. Who knows if they walk or ride when their caddy is not around. Beating balls at a range is not much of an exercise if you take your time between each shot as I’ve been told the pros do. (Was it Snead that said that he could hit balls a whole day without getting tired?) Besides, when they talk about going to the range, do they beat balls, or work on short game? — -asbjxrn

Response:

I stated in the last post that I agree that in some cases genetics plays a part. You are beating a dead horse with the genetic arguement. Go for insurance. If you are in top shape and have no health problems I can still get a better rate if both my parents are living and yours died early. Genetics. I’m not saying there aren’t fat slobs who eat and do nothing and don’t try, but you shouldn’t categorize them into one lump.

I’m not trying to categorize anyone. I’m simply trying to say that ALL pro golfers (the thin ones and the heavy ones) surely need to eat a lot of food just to maintain, not to mention actually gain weight, regardless of genetics. I know guys like you who were in tip top shape at 41 and dead from a coronary the next year. Look at David Letterman. Has a family history of heart disease and his father dropped dead at 52 and Letterman had a quintuple bypass several years ago. He’s thin as a rail.

Healthy people have heart attacks and people like my wife’s grandfather who’ve smoked since they were 15 are still alive and working at 80. That is anecdotal evidence. There exceptions to every rule and statistic, but averages are still averages. On the average, if you exercise you are going to be healthier, if you eat more calories than you expend you are going to gain weight, and if you smoke you increase you chances of early death. It’s not as simple as you think.

I think it is and I stand by my original statment: "If you trained wisely with weights 30 minutes 3x per week, practiced your golf 2x per week, played 36 holes per week and ate a sensible diet including moderate beer, wine and deserts, you could have a nice body and a pretty damn good golf game too." I guess we could change the "nice body" part to "an optimim body for the individual’s genetic make-up". Perhaps that would sound more politically correct.

Response:

PS: May I use your last line as part of my sig file. No one’s ever flamed me like that before, and that’s a pretty good line. Regards, Mark Downing "Now, go pump some iron you dingle berry brained chuckling chump, and if I’ve said anything to offend you, I meant it." [Ryan]

Just having some fun. No harm no foul.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An average active 30 year old 6′-0" and 185# needs about 2500 maintenance calories. Add to that another 2500 calories burned playing golf everyday. Add to that another 500 – 1000 practicing and your talking 5500 calories a pro golfer would need to consume every day just to break even. So for an average 30 year old, 6′-0", 85#, pro golfer to actually gain weight they would need to consume about 6000 calories a day. Go actually look at a calorie counter book and any way you slice it that is a lot of food. The way I figure it a pro golfer would need to eat a lot of food just to *maintain* his/her weight much less gain weight and become heavy set. I know this from personal experience trying to gain weight while weight training several years ago. I tried to get up to 200# and found it very difficult to consume in the 5000 calorie range per day. Expecially if you are trying to eat reasonably healthy. I think you’re assuming that I have something against fat people. I don’t. I love to eat. I just wish I could play golf everyday, make a lot of money, eat 5500 calories worth of good food and still be healthy.

Yada, yada yada. I know guys I play with that eat all they want. Get NO exercise, unless you call putting your clubs on the cart exertion, and still weigh 170 lbs. I know people who eat the right things, and still have a weight problem and high cholesterol. I weigh 175 lbs. My blood pressure is a constant 110/70, sugar is 98 and my cholesterol is 95. You know why? Because my mother is alive at 72, her mother is alive at 90 and my fathers mother is alive at 98. My father is dead only because he smoked himself into an early grave. Genetics is a lot if not most of it. Go for insurance. If you are in top shape and have no health problems I can still get a better rate if both my parents are living and yours died early. Genetics. I’m not saying there aren’t fat slobs who eat and do nothing and don’t try, but you shouldn’t categorize them into one lump. I know guys like you who were in tip top shape at 41 and dead from a coronary the next year. Look at David Letterman. Has a family history of heart disease and his father dropped dead at 52 and Letterman had a quintuple bypass several years ago. He’s thin as a rail. It’s not as simple as you think.

Response:

I wasn’t trying to make fun of anyone. I love to eat. That is one of the reasons I exercise… so I can enjoy more food. Now, go pump some iron you dingle berry brained chuckling chump, and if I’ve said anything to offend you, I meant it.

I’m simply trying to have a conversation here. I don’t understand why you are attacking me personally. If you don’t have anything knowledgeable, intelligent or funny to add why waste your own time? (That is a rhetorical question. You don’t have to answer.) I am sorry if I have obviously offended you, or anyone else for that matter. That is not why I take part in the Usenet. PS: May I use your last line as part of my sig file. No one’s ever flamed me like that before, and that’s a pretty good line. Regards, Mark Downing "Now, go pump some iron you dingle berry brained chuckling chump, and if I’ve said anything to offend you, I meant it." [Ryan]

Response:

1. It’s not a conclusion, it’s a hypothesis: "Overweight pro golfers probably eat a lot of food." He may have a nutritionist. His mother is Thai and they aren’t known as fat people. His father wasn’t heavy until later in life and that may be due to medical conditions.

2. I agree with you there. Genetics do play a part. I don’t want to get hung up on Tiger; he’s not your typical pro golfer. I was merely using him as an example. A medium pepperoni pizza (and we are talking a fairly thin pizza – not Chicago style) – 2000 calories. And most guys, including myself, would have no trouble eating that. Where I come from, we have the thickest pizzas known to man. I’d hate to know the stats.

3. This is where the moderation comes in. Sure, I too can eat a whole pizza, but it’s not the smartest thing to do for your overall health and fitness. I think most normal people would refer to eating a whole pizza as "pigging out". Now you’ve shown your ignorance using the term Refrigerator Perry and Pigs.

4. Refrigerator Perry, I can guarantee you, ate a lot of food, and wasn’t ashamed about it either. And I never used the word "pigs" I said "pig out at the buffet table". There is nothing wrong with that. I did just that at the "all you can eat" seafood place at the gulf on Saturday, and I’m proud of it. I also played a round of golf that day and carried my bag… calories burned up and then some. Why don’t you do some research. It’s a lot easier to form an opinion when you have only a few of the facts.

5. I have done research and I’m not forming an opinion, I’m presenting a hypothesis. Here are the facts of the math: An average active 30 year old 6′-0" and 185# needs about 2500 maintenance calories. Add to that another 2500 calories burned playing golf everyday. Add to that another 500 – 1000 practicing and your talking 5500 calories a pro golfer would need to consume every day just to break even. So for an average 30 year old, 6′-0", 85#, pro golfer to actually gain weight they would need to consume about 6000 calories a day. Go actually look at a calorie counter book and any way you slice it that is a lot of food. The way I figure it a pro golfer would need to eat a lot of food just to *maintain* his/her weight much less gain weight and become heavy set. I know this from personal experience trying to gain weight while weight training several years ago. I tried to get up to 200# and found it very difficult to consume in the 5000 calorie range per day. Expecially if you are trying to eat reasonably healthy. I think you’re assuming that I have something against fat people. I don’t. I love to eat. I just wish I could play golf everyday, make a lot of money, eat 5500 calories worth of good food and still be healthy.

Response:

Seriously though I think that figure has to be bogus. I’m 52, walk 18 holes carrying a bag most days, eat mostly low fat no calorie stuff, and haven’t exactly been wasting away. What walking will do for you is build up muscle and endurance and give you a modest cardio vascular boost. As for overweight golfers, they are probably just like overweight people everywhere — their genes program them to put on weight and unless they take significant steps to avoid food and get a lot more intensive exercise than walking a golf course they are going to get and stay heavy.

Exercise makes me hungry. On weekends days when I don’t golf, I tend to skip either breakfast or lunch (while I am not big, I still would like to lose a bit), but I don’t do this when that energy is going to be used. Of course I doubt that these guys actually walk most of their practice rounds, but they do stay in good enough shape to walk 36 in a day in high heat without letting it hurt their performance.

I wonder if your doubts are warranted. I also wonder how many of their practice rounds are accompanied by their caddies. When Tiger hires a caddy, does that caddy move to live near Tiger?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read recently on some website that when you walk and carry your bag during a round of golf that you burn over 1800 calories. I, myself, have lost from 185 down to 175 since I resumed playing this season, and I look pretty good for a 41 year old guy, even when I don’t hit the weights like I should. I walk only 27 holes a week and go to the range once a week. If I ate like I eat now and played as much as the pros do I would look like a Kenyan distance runner. Pro golfers, I would assume, walk at least 5 rounds a week, practice often and follow some sort of fitness regimen. I don’t see how any of them can be overweight, unless they have some sort of all you can eat buffet every night at the PGA and LPGA events. It seems to me if they all simply ate reasonably and hit the weights just a little, they would all have bodies similar to Tiger or Annika. What’s the deal? Do all of the overweight ones simply eat like Refridgerator Perry?

There is no way its anywhere near 1800 calories. Walking 5 miles burns 500 calories for an average size male. Add a 20 lb bag, maybe 600 calories. A bagel is 650 calories without any butter or sour cream, so its very easy to replace the calories with a single snack, and thats assuming you eat perfect the rest of the day. Add a slab of butter here and there, a beer, any resturant food and its fat city. I suppose eating out is the biggest problem for them to maintain any kind of decent diet. To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes. If you played as much as the pros you wouldn’t eat like you eat now, your appetite would increase.

Response:

If you trained wisely with weights 30 minutes 3x per week, practiced your golf 2x per week, played 36 holes per week and ate a sensible diet including moderate beer, wine and deserts, you could have a nice body and a pretty damn good golf game too. Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up.

Is that a conclusion or simply the place where you got tired of thinking? Ever heard of genetics? Ever been on tour? Ever ate out every night for weeks? Some pro golfers aren’t as lucky as Woods who can pick and choose where and when he eats. He may have a nutritionist. His mother is Thai and they aren’t known as fat people. His father wasn’t heavy until later in life and that may be due to medical conditions. A medium pepperoni pizza(and we are talking a fairly thin pizza – not Chicago style) – 2000 calories. And most guys, including myself, would have no trouble eating that. Where I come from, we have the thickest pizzas known to man. I’d hate to know the stats. Now you’ve shown your ignorance using the term Refrigerator Perry and Pigs. Why don’t you do some research. It’s a lot easier to form an opinion when you have only a few of the facts.

Response:

There is no way its anywhere near 1800 calories. Walking 5 miles burns 500 calories for an average size male. Add a 20 lb bag, maybe 600 calories.

This source http://www.fitresource.com/Fitness/CalBurn.htm and this source http://www.nutristrategy.com/activitylist.htm say that a 175 pound person burns 492 calories per HOUR playing golf. How many hours a week do you think pro golfers spend playing golf, not to even mention practicing. This article http://www.egolfweekly.com/2002/columns/guestcolumns/halpert_goodride… states that the author logged in 7.1 actual miles during a round of golf on a 6200 yard course. A bagel is 650 calories without any butter or sour cream, so its very easy to replace the calories with a single snack, and thats assuming you eat perfect the rest of the day. Add a slab of butter here and there, a beer, any resturant food and its fat city. I suppose eating out is the biggest problem for them to maintain any kind of decent diet.

I don’t know what size bagel your eating, but a plain bagel and a cheeseburger at McDonalds both contain 350 calories each. A Bud Light, my standard beer, has only 96 calories. A regular Coke has 140 calories. Keep in mind all calories are not the same. For instance calories from protien and fat are harder for you body to convert into energy than calories from simple carbohydrates. (Refer to any of the high fat and protein diets these days.) To have a body like Tiger your talking 2 hours/5 days week training and a perfect diet 29 days out of a month, unless you gifted with a great set of genes.

So if Tiger played a 5 hour round that would be 2,460 calories burned, which means he would need to consume about 6 cheeseburgers and wash them down with a six pack of Bud Light just to make up for the round of golf. This doesn’t take into account him going to the range after the round and hitting balls until dark. If you trained wisely with weights 30 minutes 3x per week, practiced your golf 2x per week, played 36 holes per week and ate a sensible diet including moderate beer, wine and deserts, you could have a nice body and a pretty damn good golf game too. Which brings me back to my point: How can there be fat pro golfers, unless they pig out at the buffet table? The math just doesn’t add up.

Response:

Everyone can’t be perfect, and neither are you. You may suffer from premature ejaculation and piss off your wife. Does that mean I should make fun of people with the condition and call them 2 minute warnings? Now, go pump some iron you dingle berry brained chuckling chump, and if I’ve said anything to offend you, I meant it.

Response:

I read recently on some website that when you walk and carry your bag during a round of golf that you burn over 1800 calories. I, myself, have lost from 185 down to 175 since I resumed playing this season, and I look pretty good for a 41 year old guy, even when I don’t hit the weights like I should. I walk only 27 holes a week and go to the range once a week. If I ate like I eat now and played as much as the pros do I would look like a Kenyan distance runner. Pro golfers, I would assume, walk at least 5 rounds a week, practice often and follow some sort of fitness regimen. I don’t see how any of them can be overweight, unless they have some sort of all you can eat buffet every night at the PGA and LPGA events. It seems to me if they all simply ate reasonably and hit the weights just a little, they would all have bodies similar to Tiger or Annika. What’s the deal? Do all of the overweight ones simply eat like Refridgerator Perry?

Response:

That doesn’t account for all those post round brews and brats at the turn Seriously though I think that figure has to be bogus. I’m 52, walk 18 holes carrying a bag most days, eat mostly low fat no calorie stuff, and haven’t exactly been wasting away. What walking will do for you is build up muscle and endurance and give you a modest cardio vascular boost. As for overweight golfers, they are probably just like overweight people everywhere — their genes program them to put on weight and unless they take significant steps to avoid food and get a lot more intensive excercise than walking a golf course they are going to get and stay heavy. Of course I doubt that these guys actually walk most of their practice rounds, but they do stay in good enough shape to walk 36 in a day in high heat without letting it hurt their performance. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

Steroids in golf

admin — Wed, 02 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I caught some of a discussion on tv the other day (ESPN or TGC). The

general beleive of the USGA and I guess the PGA too is that there really aren’t any drugs that can make you hit it farther and not destroy your touch around the greens. In short, no gain… no urgency to test.

Yeah, I buy that. A steroid monster with acne and an anger management problem is probably not going to be a star on the PGA tour. Then again, John Daly is….but he doesn’t have acne.

Response:

Is Annika Sorenstam on the juice ? If not, where did the mustache and the 30 yards come from ?

I heard she now has hair on her chest. All the way down to her dick. -Annika —- remembering Redd Foxx

Response:

Is Annika Sorenstam on the juice ? If not, where did the mustache and the 30 yards come from ? I heard she now has hair on her chest. All the way down to her dick. -Annika —- remembering Redd Foxx

I thought I caught a glimpse of her on TV scratching her balls. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

Response:

I disagree with your order…..better balls should be #1 by a wide margin….especially since the release of the new Titleist Pro VX ball this past January (that is when the pros started using it). How this ball is legal is beyond me…the USGA needs different tests to be applied to the balls…I played it 3 times in the past month and have seen some of the longest drives I’ve ever hit in my life….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been arguing over equipment limits. I think players are hitting the ball farther because of…in this order… 1) better drivers 2) better conditioning 3) better technique 4) better balls I am convinced that women tennis players are taking steroids. Maybe those Williams sister are just freaks of nature but Jennifer Capriati went from a cute little girl to a man-child and went to number one in the rankings. Are any pro golfers on steroids ? Is Annika Sorenstam on the juice ? If not, where did the mustache and the 30 yards come from ? I saw a replay of the 1995 US Open…boy does she look different. I don’t think she is…I just wonder what you folks think.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are any pro golfers on steroids ? I’m surprised there’s been no discussion here on the fact that the first official drug testing of golfers took place after a European Tour event last weekend (Open de France). Six players were tested, the three top place getters and another three at random from the field. I’m not sure what testing criteria or banned substance list they’re using, I think it was whatever the French Governement has legislated as the "banned substance list" for "universal" sport testing in that country. The French have been very hard on drug taking since the Tour de France debacle in 1998. Here, the Australian PGA Tour is currently organising drug testing procedures and protocol for the upcoming summer events. I believe what they are sorting out, and the only sticking point, is the actual list of banned substances. Apparently the general consensus is that drugs like beta-blockers are likely to be far more useful to a golfer than any muscle-building drugs like steroids. My info is that beta blockers are useful in those sports such as shooting or archery where steadiness and heart rate reduction is important. So a golfer would use them to enhance steadiness in putting, for example. Someone with more knowledge than me might be able to supply this information.

I caught some of a discussion on tv the other day (ESPN or TGC). The general beleive of the USGA and I guess the PGA too is that there really aren’t any drugs that can make you hit it farther and not destroy your touch around the greens. In short, no gain… no urgency to test.

Response:

We’ve been arguing over equipment limits. I think players are hitting the ball farther because of…in this order… 1) better drivers 2) better conditioning 3) better technique 4) better balls I am convinced that women tennis players are taking steroids. Maybe those Williams sister are just freaks of nature but Jennifer Capriati went from a cute little girl to a man-child and went to number one in the rankings. Are any pro golfers on steroids ? Is Annika Sorenstam on the juice ? If not, where did the mustache and the 30 yards come from ? I saw a replay of the 1995 US Open…boy does she look different. I don’t think she is…I just wonder what you folks think.

Response:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Golf Pro’s are taking steroids. It could potentially add 30 yards and turn women into men

Response:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Golf Pro’s are taking steroids. It could potentially add 30 yards and turn women into men

Some of the women already are men and it ain’t the steroids.

Response:

I think she had her teeth "fixed". I also think she looked better before they were "fixed". But that’s just MHO. David. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been arguing over equipment limits. I think players are hitting the ball farther because of…in this order… 1) better drivers 2) better conditioning 3) better technique 4) better balls I am convinced that women tennis players are taking steroids. Maybe those Williams sister are just freaks of nature but Jennifer Capriati went from a cute little girl to a man-child and went to number one in the rankings. Are any pro golfers on steroids ? Is Annika Sorenstam on the juice ? If not, where did the mustache and the 30 yards come from ? I saw a replay of the 1995 US Open…boy does she look different. I don’t think she is…I just wonder what you folks think.

Response:

Are any pro golfers on steroids ?

I’m surprised there’s been no discussion here on the fact that the first official drug testing of golfers took place after a European Tour event last weekend (Open de France). Six players were tested, the three top place getters and another three at random from the field. I’m not sure what testing criteria or banned substance list they’re using, I think it was whatever the French Governement has legislated as the "banned substance list" for "universal" sport testing in that country. The French have been very hard on drug taking since the Tour de France debacle in 1998. Here, the Australian PGA Tour is currently organising drug testing procedures and protocol for the upcoming summer events. I believe what they are sorting out, and the only sticking point, is the actual list of banned substances. Apparently the general consensus is that drugs like beta-blockers are likely to be far more useful to a golfer than any muscle-building drugs like steroids. My info is that beta blockers are useful in those sports such as shooting or archery where steadiness and heart rate reduction is important. So a golfer would use them to enhance steadiness in putting, for example. Someone with more knowledge than me might be able to supply this information. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

Oh……that Len Mattiace!!

admin — Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Could well be Luke Donald, the young English player who plays on the US Tour.

That’s exactly who that is. Won the Southern Farm Bureau classic last year. Got some game, that boy… Todd McGillivray – http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net "How can you know anything about yourself if you’ve never been in a fight?" — Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the past year or so we Oz TV viewers have been bombarded with TV ads for the ‘Hogan Tour’ golf ball; the ad appears on just about every free to air broadcast of a golfing event. The ad features four pro golfers….two of whom I recognise easily…Mark Brooks and Graig Parry. The other two I hadn’t really noticed until today….although in the past I had asked myself who they were! Imagine my surprise when, in the middle of the excitement, the Hogan golf ball ad appeared…on que…..as Mattiace was doing his thing in at the tounament! I looked at it and yelled ‘Hey…..that guy in the ad is winning the Master’s’ !!!. Now all I need to do is work out who the hell the fourth guy is. (‘Luke’ somebody). The one with the challenging Pommy dialect who claims to be able to stop the ball ‘on a dime’. Now…… I am an expatriate Pommy and I don’t even accent! ….and is Mattiace’s name really pronounced ‘Matisse’?? Just wondering… cheers david

Could well be Luke Donald, the young English player who plays on the US Tour.

Response:

For the past year or so we Oz TV viewers have been bombarded with TV ads for the ‘Hogan Tour’ golf ball; the ad appears on just about every free to air broadcast of a golfing event. The ad features four pro golfers….two of whom I recognise easily…Mark Brooks and Graig Parry. The other two I hadn’t really noticed until today….although in the past I had asked myself who they were! Imagine my surprise when, in the middle of the excitement, the Hogan golf ball ad appeared…on que…..as Mattiace was doing his thing in at the tounament! I looked at it and yelled ‘Hey…..that guy in the ad is winning the Master’s’ !!!. Now all I need to do is work out who the hell the fourth guy is. (‘Luke’ somebody). The one with the challenging Pommy dialect who claims to be able to stop the ball ‘on a dime’. Now…… I am an expatriate Pommy and I don’t even accent! ….and is Mattiace’s name really pronounced ‘Matisse’?? Just wondering… cheers david

Response:

To Rodmakerand His Rod

admin — Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Just finished the feather inlays on Barton’s latest rods.Once I get a coat of finish on them I’ll try to get them up on alt.binaires.pictures.fishing. — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great idea! Keeping an up-to-date FAQ will also give us new-comers most of the answers to our rookie questions. So we aren’t going to constantly annoying you guys with the same questions over and over again (hopefully . I took a look at the robf.org – not saying the FAQ there is bad (in fact it is a great site), but there is still a lot more info in the newsgroup archive that deserves a place in the FAQ … Sure, this will be quite a bit of extra work … Thanks, Nikolay I’ll second that motion. Of course I think we are supposed to post a FAQ addition as a new thread. A suggestion would be to compose all of this fantastic info from both you and Steve, and to add it to our FAQ. I make a motion to do so. —

Response:

I agree to under take this task , as long as "NervisRek" — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods

Response:

Great idea! Keeping an up-to-date FAQ will also give us new-comers most of the answers to our rookie questions. So we aren’t going to constantly annoying you guys with the same questions over and over again (hopefully . I took a look at the robf.org – not saying the FAQ there is bad (in fact it is a great site), but there is still a lot more info in the newsgroup archive that deserves a place in the FAQ … Sure, this will be quite a bit of extra work … Thanks, Nikolay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll second that motion. Of course I think we are supposed to post a FAQ addition as a new thread. A suggestion would be to compose all of this fantastic info from both you and Steve, and to add it to our FAQ. I make a motion to do so. —

Response:

And learn to check things , like the spine. Learn to flex the rod and eyeball the guide positioning. Imagine the line running thru the guides, would there be any sharp bends in the line. If so put it back on the shelf, as the guides are spaced to far apart. And that creates additional stress on the blank. Above all educate yourself about the make-up of a rod. And you will be able to easily pick out a good rod from the bad. — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As each of you has realized this is a topic which continually garners much debate. And to be honest there is no single correct answer. We each have opinions regarding custom vs. store bought rods. And not one us is wrong ….. A lot of times its just economics. If I were rich I would have custom rods from Steve and Dave and probably some others. You can feel the difference. But if all you can afford are factory rods, you will be fine. It won’t hurt your fishing. Very true Richard, just make sure the factory rod is from a decent company. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

Very good advice Dave. I was in a hurry when I replied and should have given that bit of advice in the message. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

Hopefully someone will read these posts and utilize this bit of advice. Knowledge is the key ,the more you know about fishing ;The better you will — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And learn to check things , like the spine. Learn to flex the rod and eyeball the guide positioning. Imagine the line running thru the guides, would there be any sharp bends in the line. If so put it back on the shelf, as the guides are spaced to far apart. And that creates additional stress on the blank. Above all educate yourself about the make-up of a rod. And you will be able to easily pick out a good rod from the bad. Very good advice Dave. I was in a hurry when I replied and should have given that bit of advice in the message. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

A suggestion would be to compose all of this fantastic info from both you and Steve, and to add it to our FAQ. I make a motion to do so. — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hopefully someone will read these posts and utilize this bit of advice. Knowledge is the key ,the more you know about fishing ;The better you will get at it. At least that’s my theory, and for now I stick to — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods And learn to check things , like the spine. Learn to flex the rod and eyeball the guide positioning. Imagine the line running thru the guides, would there be any sharp bends in the line. If so put it back on the shelf, as the guides are spaced to far apart. And that creates additional stress on the blank. Above all educate yourself about the make-up of a rod. And you will be able to easily pick out a good rod from the bad. Very good advice Dave. I was in a hurry when I replied and should have given that bit of advice in the message. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

I’ll second that motion. Of course I think we are supposed to post a FAQ addition as a new thread.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A suggestion would be to compose all of this fantastic info from both you and Steve, and to add it to our FAQ. I make a motion to do so. — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com Hopefully someone will read these posts and utilize this bit of advice. Knowledge is the key ,the more you know about fishing ;The better you will get at it. At least that’s my theory, and for now I stick to — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods And learn to check things , like the spine. Learn to flex the rod and eyeball the guide positioning. Imagine the line running thru the guides, would there be any sharp bends in the line. If so put it back on the shelf, as the guides are spaced to far apart. And that creates additional stress on the blank. Above all educate yourself about the make-up of a rod. And you will be able to easily pick out a good rod from the bad. Very good advice Dave. I was in a hurry when I replied and should have given that bit of advice in the message. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

I admit I had alot more confidence in my Diamond. I seemed to shoot the really difficult stuff better. I don’t think anyone is saying that if they use RodMaker’s rods that they can’t be beaten. Maybe it’s just that they think their fishing improves when they use one of his rods compared to when they use something else. At least that’s the way I see it.

Confidence is a lot of anything I admit. If I didn’t think there was some difference I wouldn’t have a new St Croix sitting next to the door ready to go out this weekend. (Another tournament on the 2nd) I wanted to get the feel of how much difference people feel there is. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bassman Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

As each of you has realized this is a topic which continually garners much debate. And to be honest there is no single correct answer. We each have opinions regarding custom vs. store bought rods. And not one us is wrong ….. A lot of times its just economics. If I were rich I would have custom rods from Steve and Dave and probably some others. You can feel the difference. But if all you can afford are factory rods, you will be fine. It won’t hurt your fishing.

Very true Richard, just make sure the factory rod is from a decent company. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

A lot of times its just economics. If I were rich I would have custom rods from Steve and Dave and probably some others. You can feel the difference. But if all you can afford are factory rods, you will be fine. It won’t hurt your fishing. — Richard Bass Stalkers http://www.bassstalkers.com

Response:

Well said Dave. Confidence, quality construction techniques and quality components are the cornerstone of a custom rod. A good, well balanced and sensitive rod can boost an angler’s confidence and thus increase the catch rate. But it is NOT a magic cure all, you still have to have the knowledge of where the fish are, what they are doing and how to best provoke a strike. That does not change regardless of what rod you’re using. I know people like Rich Z, Warren and others could probably outfish 90% of the anglers with a Snoopy Catchem Kit, regardless of who built them a rod and how much they spent for it. Knowledge is still the key, always has been, always will be. — Steve OutdoorFrontiers http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

Maybe Pro golfers use clubs from the highest bidder..same as Pro anglers.. <’((((((<

Response:

As each of you has realized this is a topic which continually garners much debate. And to be honest there is no single correct answer. We each have opinions regarding custom vs. store bought rods. And not one us is wrong . It is a matter of "confidence", as Bob La Londe answered his own question. In that yes he was more comfortable, & played better when he used that custom stick. It is the same with fishing rods. you may have the best store bought rod to be had. And yet you might feel that there is something better to be had. Confidence is the key! From everyone I have "ever" sold a rod to ,comes the same answer. They feel more relaxed ,and at ease with that custom rod. Thus they fish better. Course it does help that custom builders go to greater lengths in building a rod than do the mass marketers. So from the onset an angler using a custom rod has a decided advantage over a fellow using a store bought rod. However if that angler does not have "confidence" in the rod he will fish no better than the fellow with the factory rod. A fishing rod is a tool, just as is the reel ,line, & lure. Think of it this way, when you need a speciacty tool to do a specific job, would you run down to the local Wal-Mart. And buy a cresent wrench to do a job that required a special gear puller. Most people are perfectly content using off the rack tools. And I wish them well, I probably send out 50 qoutes for rods for each one I actually sell. Most people are simply curious as to what a custom rod costs. But then there are those of you who have risen above what the store bought tools can do for you. And that is why there are custom builders. — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe Pro golfers use clubs from the highest bidder..same as Pro anglers.. <’((((((<

Response:

Confidence in your equipment in any sport is very important.Pro golfers have access to the most high tech clubs that can be made,and when they play poorly,they change manufacturers.Ernie Els played with Taylor Made clubs for awhile and did not win the way he felt he should,so now he plays Titleist and is on fire winning everything.I have clubs that are 15 years old and usually beat my buddies that are playing with clubs that cost around $1000.00 a set.I have confidence in my swing and abilities. I know Dave makes and incredible fishing rod,(Charles let me hold his one time .Personally though, the rods I have used for a long time that have served me well and are in good shape,and caught a ton of fish on,are what I have confidence in.Again,I have confidence in my equipment and my abilities.Would I have more confidence in a rod that costs $300.00,I doubt it.I would be scared to death something would happen to it.You have a great product Dave,and I wish you nothing but success with it.Its all relative.

Response:

You say you went heads up against the better sticks, but you didn’t mention if you could tell any difference in your game when using different sticks. For example, could you play longer, better and less fatigued with a lighter more expensive stick than with one of the ones off the bar wall? I don’t think anyone is saying that if they use RodMaker’s rods that they can’t be beaten. Maybe it’s just that they think their fishing improves when they use one of his rods compared to when they use something else. At least that’s the way I see it. Bassman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

To each his own, can be said in this situation. I’ve got a total of 8 St. Croix’s (the Elites) and they’re on the hooks in the garage, and that’s where they now stay. They were nice, but, the smoothnest and the sensitivety from a custom, balanced rod can’t be beat, no matter who the customizer may be. Of course my son Sean is loving it, because he gets all of my hand me downs. Even he’s having a rod built by Steve, after spending a 1/2 hour with one of Steve’s custom rods in his hands. Whenever you’re around someone that you know real well, that has a custom rod in there hands, ask if they’d mind you casting it a few times, I’d be delighted to let anyone try one of mine. — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys kill me! Wish I had oh say 20-30 devout — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

Worth it??? I guess it’s all in the way you look at it. I think so. I feel a certain sense of confidence standing at the front of the boat with my MCR at hand. Is it knowing that I’ve got an expensive, well built rod in my hands, or is it thinking that this rod is going to catch me more fish? I don’t know… What I do know is that something about my "pet" rods is helping me catch more fish, and that’s all that matters. When Dave called me to tell me he found a 6′8" All-Star, I don’t think I even once considered the price tag. I just told him to "go for it". This will be my second MCR rod, and as long as I can feel as good about this one… it’s well worth it. Also… just to clear the air, there is no reason for me to promote these rods for him. You asked… and I’m telling. Fishing… it’s all a confidence thing. — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys kill me! Wish I had oh say 20-30 devout — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

shoot us a price on the st croix rods hanging in the garage. crownliner

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To each his own, can be said in this situation. I’ve got a total of 8 St. Croix’s (the Elites) and they’re on the hooks in the garage, and that’s where they now stay. They were nice, but, the smoothnest and the sensitivety from a custom, balanced rod can’t be beat, no matter who the customizer may be. Of course my son Sean is loving it, because he gets all of my hand me downs. Even he’s having a rod built by Steve, after spending a 1/2 hour with one of Steve’s custom rods in his hands. Whenever you’re around someone that you know real well, that has a custom rod in there hands, ask if they’d mind you casting it a few times, I’d be delighted to let anyone try one of mine. — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com You guys kill me! Wish I had oh say 20-30 devout — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form

Response:

No worries bro, we will be here! — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys kill me! Wish I had oh say 20-30 devout — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form

Is it really worth it? I mean seriously. No disrespect intended. I’m not a skilled enough fisherman to have my own strong opinion on rods that are at the high end of the spectrum, but I was once a pretty good pool player. I was good enough to know I could beat most folks with anything off the rack. Sure McDermot makes one of the best sticks in the world, but I went heads up against a lot of McDermot sticks with my Diamond at half the cost. Even a Dufferin stick will play with the big boys. I know the difference. I admit the McDermot is well constructed. Maybe one of the best. I used one a few times. Would I own one. Sure. If I hadn’t given up 7 nights a week in the bars playing to closing time every night. I’ld probably own a couple. So seriously. Is one of Rodmakers custom made rods really worth it? Is it the difference between a bar cue and a Custom made McDermot or the difference between a Diamond and an out of the cabinet McDermot? P.S. It is true. If you don’t play all the time the skills go away very very fast. — Bob La Londe The Security Consultant http://www.diycomponents.com 849 S Ave C Yuma, Az 85364 (928)782-9765 ofc (928)782-7873 fax ROC 103044, C-12 ROC 103047, L-67

Response:

I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form

Response:

You guys kill me! Wish I had oh say 20-30 devout — Dave Norton Millennium Custom Rods

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m claiming him as a dependant on my taxes this year. Every new one I get, my wife says, what, another one? — Jerry Barton www.jerrys-world.com I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org I got the rod into day and it looks even better than the shot you sent me. Man you did one hell of a good job on the rod. Now I will be looking and trying to talk my wife in letting me get the other 4 to 6 rods from ye. Thanks — Nothing ever dies It just changes form

Response:

I agree!!! Have him hook you up with a G. Loomis like mine! Scientifically speaking… it’s "bad to the bone"! — Visit Charles at the new: www.thebasspro.net www.secretweaponlures.com www.outdoorfrontiers.com www.midtennclassic.org

Response:

Please tell me what you think

admin — Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hey all, Need some opinions here. I"m not working right now because of a mutually agreed upon layoff from my last job. I HATED that job which is why I basically asked them to lay me off. I get UC checks now but I know that I will need to find a job soon. I have an undergrad degree plus the equiv of a master’s degree in another field. Finding a job that I can live with and make decent money has always been a huge problem for me. I have yet to actually work in the field that I went to school for for various reasons. I want part-time work because I get sick of doing the same thing everyday, day after day after day. I am most happy when I have 2 part-time jobs because it breaks up the monotany for me. I also like to move around so sitting at a desk all day is not for me, although I could do that if it was only for a few hours a day a couple days a week. I DO want a job – I DO want to work but I want balance in my life as well. I feel like I’m headed nowhere fast. Don’t know if this is depression or part of an attention deficit disorder. I’ve always been able to pay attention in school and was never hyperactive but I become extremely miserable if I have to be somewhere everyday for 8 hours a shot (i.e. a full-time job). Also, I don’t have interest in things anymore like I used to. I used to feel relatively content. I have interests but they are short-lived. I can’t believe how short lived my excitment about things are. My interest right now is food, cooking, baking. I signed up for a cake decorating class. I was so enthused over this but after a week’s time, I’m not excited anymore about it. Job/career advice is always "do what you love to do." I don’t buy that. I think that if I try to make a living doing something that I find interesting, the act of making it a job will take the fun out of it. I have interests but everytime I try to pursue an interest job-wise, I get sick of it really fast. Can anybody identify with any of this? Thank you so much. It feels good to at least ask these questions. Saundra

Response:

Have you considered contract work? More and more companies are outsourcing everything from tech writing to system administration. Depending on your field, short-term assignments might work for you. You wouldn’t be working at the same place, doing the same thing, long enough to get sick of it.

Thanks. I forgot about contract work. I will look into that. I’m taking a class right now toward yet another degree – this time it’s an associates. My thinking is "why bother?" – if I’m just going to lose interest in that. Why spend the bucks? I’m wondering if this is part of depression, a certain personality type that would be constant with or without depression, or part of an attention deficit problem? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The downside to contract work is benefits: unless you can hook up with an agency, you’ll have to pay for your own health insurance, which can be incredibly expensive. This is why I’m trying to find a full-time job. Contract work suits my temperament and I love being able to work at home, but the insurance premiums are prohibitive. As for doing what you love– I gave up on that concept years ago, so I can’t be of much help there. I work because I need the money. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I could find many ways to occupy my time. philippa — Survivor guilt: Everyone wants to be one of the rescued or the rescuing. [John Weir, RS 880] http://www.mindspring.com/~philippa X-No-Archive: yes is in the headers.

Response:

I get bored too. It’s hard to find something that is interesting to well rounded people lng term I think that that’s why the average person changes career paths so often these days. As for ADHD… this is the MTV generation. We need constant stimulation.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Need some opinions here. I"m not working right now because of a mutually agreed upon layoff from my last job. I HATED that job which is why I basically asked them to lay me off. I get UC checks now but I know that I will need to find a job soon. I have an undergrad degree plus the equiv of a master’s degree in another field. Finding a job that I can live with and make decent money has always been a huge problem for me. I have yet to actually work in the field that I went to school for for various reasons. I want part-time work because I get sick of doing the same thing everyday, day after day after day. I am most happy when I have 2 part-time jobs because it breaks up the monotany for me. I also like to move around so sitting at a desk all day is not for me, although I could do that if it was only for a few hours a day a couple days a week. I DO want a job – I DO want to work but I want balance in my life as well. I feel like I’m headed nowhere fast. Don’t know if this is depression or part of an attention deficit disorder. I’ve always been able to pay attention in school and was never hyperactive but I become extremely miserable if I have to be somewhere everyday for 8 hours a shot (i.e. a full-time job). Also, I don’t have interest in things anymore like I used to. I used to feel relatively content. I have interests but they are short-lived. I can’t believe how short lived my excitment about things are. My interest right now is food, cooking, baking. I signed up for a cake decorating class. I was so enthused over this but after a week’s time, I’m not excited anymore about it. Job/career advice is always "do what you love to do." I don’t buy that. I think that if I try to make a living doing something that I find interesting, the act of making it a job will take the fun out of it. I have interests but everytime I try to pursue an interest job-wise, I get sick of it really fast. Can anybody identify with any of this? Thank you so much. It feels good to at least ask these questions.

Saundra, I’m not any kind of doctor or psychologist, but what you are describing is right out of the depression textbook. Have you seen anyone for any of this?

Response:

I think you know the answer to your question. You know what you like, how you like to work, now all you have to do is to find work in an evironment that meets those needs and likes. That may mean moving from job to job until you find one you want to stick with for a while.

Response:

Hi Saundra 1. There is a "test" you can take that matches your interests with the interests of people in various fields of work. Most high schools have these "tests" and I imagine they are available in other places. You might try one of these to see what the results are. 2. Maybe you would enjoy the variety of work that a Temp agency could provide. I don’t know if there are any agencies that supply people at your level but might be worth looking into. 3. I’m wondering if you need to look mostly for this variety of things that interest you in the non-work part of your life. If you have a few things always waiting for you at the end of the work day, it makes work more tolerable. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Need some opinions here. I"m not working right now because of a mutually agreed upon layoff from my last job. I HATED that job which is why I basically asked them to lay me off. I get UC checks now but I know that I will need to find a job soon. I have an undergrad degree plus the equiv of a master’s degree in another field. Finding a job that I can live with and make decent money has always been a huge problem for me. I have yet to actually work in the field that I went to school for for various reasons. I want part-time work because I get sick of doing the same thing everyday, day after day after day. I am most happy when I have 2 part-time jobs because it breaks up the monotany for me. I also like to move around so sitting at a desk all day is not for me, although I could do that if it was only for a few hours a day a couple days a week. I DO want a job – I DO want to work but I want balance in my life as well. I feel like I’m headed nowhere fast. Don’t know if this is depression or part of an attention deficit disorder. I’ve always been able to pay attention in school and was never hyperactive but I become extremely miserable if I have to be somewhere everyday for 8 hours a shot (i.e. a full-time job). Also, I don’t have interest in things anymore like I used to. I used to feel relatively content. I have interests but they are short-lived. I can’t believe how short lived my excitment about things are. My interest right now is food, cooking, baking. I signed up for a cake decorating class. I was so enthused over this but after a week’s time, I’m not excited anymore about it. Job/career advice is always "do what you love to do." I don’t buy that. I think that if I try to make a living doing something that I find interesting, the act of making it a job will take the fun out of it. I have interests but everytime I try to pursue an interest job-wise, I get sick of it really fast. Can anybody identify with any of this? Thank you so much. It feels good to at least ask these questions. Saundra

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey all, Need some opinions here. I"m not working right now because of a mutually agreed upon layoff from my last job. I HATED that job which is why I basically asked them to lay me off. I get UC checks now but I know that I will need to find a job soon. I have an undergrad degree plus the equiv of a master’s degree in another field. Finding a job that I can live with and make decent money has always been a huge problem for me. I have yet to actually work in the field that I went to school for for various reasons. I want part-time work because I get sick of doing the same thing everyday, day after day after day. I am most happy when I have 2 part-time jobs because it breaks up the monotany for me. I also like to move around so sitting at a desk all day is not for me, although I could do that if it was only for a few hours a day a couple days a week. I DO want a job – I DO want to work but I want balance in my life as well. I feel like I’m headed nowhere fast. Don’t know if this is depression or part of an attention deficit disorder. I’ve always been able to pay attention in school and was never hyperactive but I become extremely miserable if I have to be somewhere everyday for 8 hours a shot (i.e. a full-time job). Also, I don’t have interest in things anymore like I used to. I used to feel relatively content. I have interests but they are short-lived. I can’t believe how short lived my excitment about things are. My interest right now is food, cooking, baking. I signed up for a cake decorating class. I was so enthused over this but after a week’s time, I’m not excited anymore about it. Job/career advice is always "do what you love to do." I don’t buy that. I think that if I try to make a living doing something that I find interesting, the act of making it a job will take the fun out of it. I have interests but everytime I try to pursue an interest job-wise, I get sick of it really fast. Can anybody identify with any of this? Thank you so much. It feels good to at least ask these questions. Have you considered contract work? More and more companies are outsourcing everything from tech writing to system administration. Depending on your field, short-term assignments might work for you. You wouldn’t be working at the same place, doing the same thing, long enough to get sick of it. The downside to contract work is benefits: unless you can hook up with an agency, you’ll have to pay for your own health insurance, which can be incredibly expensive. This is why I’m trying to find a full-time job. Contract work suits my temperament and I love being able to work at home, but the insurance premiums are prohibitive. As for doing what you love– I gave up on that concept years ago, so I can’t be of much help there. I work because I need the money. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I could find many ways to occupy my time.

I have to agree on doing contact/consulting work. You never stay at the same place for too long and you control your own pace/hours (for the most part). I do it and I enjoy it a great deal! As for not doing what you love… For some people yes, they cannot simply do what they love but I think it’s for practical reasons (not skilled enough etc…) It’s still very much a reachable goal! Good Luck to you — Please visit my friend’s site at www.helpsanya.ca

Response:

I have to agree on doing contact/consulting work. You never stay at the same place for too long and you control your own pace/hours (for the most part). I do it and I enjoy it a great deal!

I know that Information Tech people do contract work. What other kinds of work can be done on a contract level? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -As for not doing what you love… For some people yes, they cannot simply do what they love but I think it’s for practical reasons (not skilled enough etc…) It’s still very much a reachable goal! Good Luck to you — Please visit my friend’s site at www.helpsanya.ca

Response:

Saundra, I’m not any kind of doctor or psychologist, but what you are describing is right out of the depression textbook. Have you seen anyone for any of this?

Hi, Which depression resource of info is this in so I can go read it. I would like to see my symptoms in print. I search tooth and nail Yahoo for the string, "can’t work a full-time job" and similar phrases but all I get are hits containing info where the person can’t work a fullt-time job because of old age or because they have kids – nothing similar to my situation. Yes, I’ve seen someone. She seems to think it’s part of a personality type – a creative personality type. I think I’ve had an aversion to the same thing everyday since I was a kid. I missed a lot of school but did really well in college because of the loose schedule.

Response:

…if everyone did what they love, the world would be overwhelmed with pornstars, writers, beer testers, pro golfers, and rockstars.

Response:

Stan, I have taken the Strong Campbell Interest Inventory and the Meyers Briggs and the Jackson Vocational Survey. I took the Strong about 4 times when I was in high school and college. They point strongly to teaching. 2. Maybe you would enjoy the variety of work that a Temp agency could provide. I don’t know if there are any agencies that supply people at your level but might be worth looking into. 3. I’m wondering if you need to look mostly for this variety of things that interest you in the non-work part of your life. If you have a few things always waiting for you at the end of the work day, it makes work more tolerable.

I honestly tried that at my last job. I tried to do fun stuff after work. It was too hard. I was extremely miserable and tired. 8 hours seemed like an eternity. There are other problems associated with this that I haven’t touched on here. For instance I had the problem of getting to sleep at night because I knew that my next waking moment meant that I would be going to that job – I never wanted to let go of the night so to speak – let go of my freedom because the next day I would be a caged bird. I stared anticipating having to go back to work on Monday – on Saturdays. It was just too much. I did this for 2 years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stan Hey all, Need some opinions here. I"m not working right now because of a mutually agreed upon layoff from my last job. I HATED that job which is why I basically asked them to lay me off. I get UC checks now but I know that I will need to find a job soon. I have an undergrad degree plus the equiv of a master’s degree in another field. Finding a job that I can live with and make decent money has always been a huge problem for me. I have yet to actually work in the field that I went to school for for various reasons. I want part-time work because I get sick of doing the same thing everyday, day after day after day. I am most happy when I have 2 part-time jobs because it breaks up the monotany for me. I also like to move around so sitting at a desk all day is not for me, although I could do that if it was only for a few hours a day a couple days a week. I DO want a job – I DO want to work but I want balance in my life as well. I feel like I’m headed nowhere fast. Don’t know if this is depression or part of an attention deficit disorder. I’ve always been able to pay attention in school and was never hyperactive but I become extremely miserable if I have to be somewhere everyday for 8 hours a shot (i.e. a full-time job). Also, I don’t have interest in things anymore like I used to. I used to feel relatively content. I have interests but they are short-lived. I can’t believe how short lived my excitment about things are. My interest right now is food, cooking, baking. I signed up for a cake decorating class. I was so enthused over this but after a week’s time, I’m not excited anymore about it. Job/career advice is always "do what you love to do." I don’t buy that. I think that if I try to make a living doing something that I find interesting, the act of making it a job will take the fun out of it. I have interests but everytime I try to pursue an interest job-wise, I get sick of it really fast. Can anybody identify with any of this? Thank you so much. It feels good to at least ask these questions. Saundra

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Saundra, I’m not any kind of doctor or psychologist, but what you are describing is right out of the depression textbook. Have you seen anyone for any of this? Hi, Which depression resource of info is this in so I can go read it. I would like to see my symptoms in print. I search tooth and nail Yahoo for the string, "can’t work a full-time job" and similar phrases but all I get are hits containing info where the person can’t work a fullt-time job because of old age or because they have kids – nothing similar to my situation. Yes, I’ve seen someone. She seems to think it’s part of a personality type – a creative personality type. I think I’ve had an aversion to the same thing everyday since I was a kid. I missed a lot of school but did really well in college because of the loose schedule.

Saundra, Not being able to work a full-time job isn’t a symptom. It’s a consequence. Imagine your sprain your arm. How would you know you sprained it? The symptoms would be an inability to move your arm without feeling a sharp pain. Because of that pain, you can’t play tennis. If you search on the phrase "can’t play tennis" you won’t find an article on recognizing a sprained arm. Here is a web site about depression. I found it by going to Google and searching on depression symptoms. http://www.symptoms-of-depression.com/index.php3 Why did I write that you seemed to be depressed? Because you wrote that the things that used to interest you no longer do, and that you’re having a hard time sustaining new interests. I’m not a doctor, so I can’t say whether ADD is involved. But it sure seems like depression is involved. And if depression is involved, the good news is that the medications often are of great benefit. I found myself waking up in the middle of the night worrying, and I saw someone and began taking an anti-depressant. When I take the med there is no problem, and no side effects either. Again, I am not a doctor and I want to be really clear about that. But it seems *so much* like depression, and if that’s the case it is probably something you can have treated. And when you do, you’ll say to yourself, "I wish I had gotten the medication years ago." One other thing: I don’t work for a drug company or anything like that! Good luck …

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whoooaaaaa…my bad…using a sense of humor amongst nerds. Note to self….in the future, respond with no irony or satire. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …if everyone did what they love, the world would be overwhelmed with pornstars, writers, beer testers, pro golfers, and rockstars. No, if everyone did what *you* love the world would be overwhelmed with pornstars, writers, etc etc.!

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…if everyone did what they love, the world would be overwhelmed with pornstars, writers, beer testers, pro golfers, and rockstars.

No, if everyone did what *you* love the world would be overwhelmed with pornstars, writers, etc etc.!

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Me, too. How’s living in one of the few cities with an official cookie working out for ya?

I like Newton quite a bit. A nice balance between the city and the suburbs. Regarding Fig Newton cookies, here’s the story: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980508.html

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Me, too. How’s living in one of the few cities with an official cookie working out for ya? I like Newton quite a bit. A nice balance between the city and the suburbs. Regarding Fig Newton cookies, here’s the story: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980508.html

Thanks for the link. So, it isn’t urban legend, then. Not quite as distinctive an identifier as Heartbreak Hill, but a good cookie it is … mmm. I like the town, too, but I don’t think I could afford to live here if I hadn’t inherited the house my parents paid $25K for in 1960. Sometimes I think about cashing out, but — but a lot of things, I guess. The convenient location is one of them. Gayle

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nope…i just saw your moniker and assumed you’re a pretentious prick. I may well be a pretentious prick, but I take my moniker from where I live, which is Newton, Massachusetts

Me, too. How’s living in one of the few cities with an official cookie working out for ya? Gayle

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nope…i just saw your moniker and assumed you’re a pretentious prick.

I may well be a pretentious prick, but I take my moniker from where I live, which is Newton, Massachusetts

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nope…i just saw your moniker and assumed you’re a pretentious prick. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – whoooaaaaa…my bad…using a sense of humor amongst nerds. Note to self….in the future, respond with no irony or satire. I guess you didn’t pick up on the humor in my riposte. Oh well!

Response:

whoooaaaaa…my bad…using a sense of humor amongst nerds. Note to self….in the future, respond with no irony or satire.

I guess you didn’t pick up on the humor in my riposte. Oh well!