Please help with putting

Question:

I stand corrected. The hands under the shoulders is the key. Good point, Jeff. GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is false. There is a simple series of photos in Pelz’s Putting Bible that proves it. Your shoulders do not need to be anywhere close to above the the ball to get a pure straight-line stroke (we’re talking about being within the vertical plane, of course.) Your hands need to be below your shoulders. If that is true, the ball can be a mile away and the stroke can still go in a straight line, without contriving (we’re talking about a pure pendulum stroke). The easiest way to realize this without looking at the pictures is to understand that if the putterhead is perpendicular to the path right in front of you, then if you made the putterhead a foot long, or a yard long, or a mile long, it would still be perpendicular.

Response:

This has to be judged by the golfer regardless of the method used. It doesn’t invalidate the "calibration" method on that count. Another somewhat confusing statement was employing an "arc" in the swing a traditional putt with a blade putter DOES require an arc in the swing, whereas the standard swing with a heel-toe weighted putter does not.

Assuming you meant to have a period after the first "swing"… That’s not true. You can putt with no arc (in the horizontal plane) with a blade putter, and with an arc with a heel-too weighted putter. I’ve seen many people with different putting styles and stances. The one thing all sucessful putters have in common is: 1) Dominant eye over the clubhead.

Not necessarily. 2) Putter face impacts ball flush.

Not necessarily. 3) Backswing goes straight back and forward to attain the flush impact (non blade putters).

Not necessarily. 4) Establish smooth tempo both back and forwards. 5) Remove negative thoughts

How would you or anyone else know? Those are all good ideas, but there have been excellent putters that have deviated from one or more of them.

Response:

A classic blade putter swing is one that comes from in to out during impact. It’s different than the heel-toe swing which always should be straight back and forward.

I think you’re taking Pelz’s comments on face-balanced putters too far.

Response:

This is false. There is a simple series of photos in Pelz’s Putting Bible that proves it. Your shoulders do not need to be anywhere close to above the the ball to get a pure straight-line stroke (we’re talking about being within the vertical plane, of course.) Your hands need to be below your shoulders. If that is true, the ball can be a mile away and the stroke can still go in a straight line, without contriving (we’re talking about a pure pendulum stroke). The easiest way to realize this without looking at the pictures is to understand that if the putterhead is perpendicular to the path right in front of you, then if you made the putterhead a foot long, or a yard long, or a mile long, it would still be perpendicular.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Huh? Unless your shoulders are ABSOLUTEly above your ball and you do not contrive a straight line stroke, your swing WILL be an arc – albeit minimal since the shoulder will not be far from directly above the ball in any event. Huh? How do you explain Perfy? Contrived. Not the shape of human motion when swinging from the shoulders/sternum. As I think the perfy to be– not intimately familiar with it. It doesn’t have a vertical axis, no? GH

Look at the cover of "Putt Like The Pros" and tell me what you think is inaccurate about the model?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow…many comments…some of it very good….some very bad. Such as this one from the gentleman above: "…calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup…" It’s impossible to calibrate uniform distances with a putter because each green varies from one to another and during times of day. They will all vary differently on a stimpmeter. Of course. So your calibration requires using judgment, adjustment, allowance FOR differences that occur from day to day, moment to moment, slope up, down, changes in green surface due to moisture, etc. But it STARTS with knowing the amplitude of stroke necesssary for given distances, found for the "day" on the practice green, which is usually the same depth of cut and the same kind of soil and grass as on the course, on a level surface. The calibration (Pelz’s system, incidentally) is not an automaton reaction to a "one size fits all" but a place to START. And its reliability is uncanny when it is laced with judgement and adjustment as needed. It is incredibly better than guessing! which is what most people do.

OKay, I agree. I misunderstood your first statement. I thought you weren’t taking variances into consideration. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If he’s referring to gauging on a practice green, this is closer to reality. but should be considered a guideline, not absolute because most practice greens will run differently than on-course greens due to traffic/usage. Exactly. Another somewhat confusing statement was employing an "arc" in the swing a traditional putt with a blade putter DOES require an arc in the swing, whereas the standard swing with a heel-toe weighted putter does not. Huh? Unless your shoulders are ABSOLUTEly above your ball and you do not contrive a straight line stroke, your swing WILL be an arc – albeit minimal since the shoulder will not be far from directly above the ball in any event.

Nope. This is wrong. The golf club has a distinctive lie charactoristic that allows you to hold the club with your dominant eye over the ball allowing the shoulders to remain approx 8" behind the placement of the ball. This allows you to make a pendulum swing, STRAIGHT BACK and forward in line with your immediate target line. Again, this is with the std. Heel-toe putter. I’ve seen many people with different putting styles and stances. The one thing all sucessful putters have in common is: 1) Dominant eye over the clubhead. 2) Putter face impacts ball flush. 3) Backswing goes straight back and forward to attain the flush impact (non blade putters). Not Brad Faxon or others of his caliber. No way.

A classic blade putter swing is one that comes from in to out during impact. It’s different than the heel-toe swing which always should be straight back and forward. Interesting you mentioned Faxxon as a model. Because it solidifies my point in that he always used a blade like putter (Ping "My Day" and later, variations of it he himself designed thru Scotty Cameron) that aside from a weighted back, it maintained a rear mounted hosel (like a blade and very low swept back, (like a blade). If you pay attention to players who use a blade puter, you’ll see a very distinctive stroke. It’s because the timing of impact is so critical with the blade that many opted for the more balanced and straight, pendulum stroke of the later, heel-toe style. 4) Establish smooth tempo both back and forwards. 5) Remove negative thoughts 6) Establish a set pre-stroke routine and DO NOT DEVIATE from it. All excellent advice except contriving straight line tracking. IMO. George Hibbard

Again, just my H.O.

Response:

Huh? How do you explain Perfy?

Response:

Contrived. Not the shape of human motion when swinging from the shoulders/sternum. As I think the perfy to be– not intimately familiar with it. It doesn’t have a vertical axis, no? GH

Response:

What I’ve done to improve my putting …. – read Dave Pelz’s ‘Putt Like the Pros’ for technical advice – listen/read Bob Rotella’s ‘Putting Out of Your Mind’ for mind set and routine – try different grips/setups/strokes/putters until you find one *you* like. – practice your stroke and 6 to 10 foot straight putts at home until they’re automatic. Some kind of alignment device (even just two irons laid parallel) can help here too. – on the course, once you’ve read and judged the distance for a putt, commit 100% to making a good stroke, at the amplitude (length of backswing) you believe is correct, and hitting the ball in the sweet spot. **Do not look up until the ball is on the way**. Judge your putts by how well you accomplish this, not necessarily whether they go in. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am loosing my mind trying to get my putting inline with the rest of my game. I have been doing fine getting to the green and should be up and down way more often except my putting sucks soooo bad. I have tried to practice with a piece of wood to get the feeling of what it means to keep a strait line but when I am following the piece of wood it feels so unnatural. I have to have my arms extend forward on the backswing and then my arms tucked way in close to my body to follow through. How can I figure this out and get better with my putting? Thanks, Cliff

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am loosing my mind trying to get my putting inline with the rest of my game. I have been doing fine getting to the green and should be up and down way more often except my putting sucks soooo bad. I have tried to practice with a piece of wood to get the feeling of what it means to keep a strait line but when I am following the piece of wood it feels so unnatural. I have to have my arms extend forward on the backswing and then my arms tucked way in close to my body to follow through. How can I figure this out and get better with my putting? Thanks, Cliff Trying to contrive an online swing is unnatural and not what many golf teachers advocate. A natural arc permits natural physical mechanics to operate. MAKE your DECISIONS for putting: 1) line; 2) amplitude of stroke needed FOR the distance of the putt: AND THEN EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS WHILE NOT ALLOWING THE PUTTERFACE TO CHANGE ITS ANGLE – by keeping an absolutely uniform tempo of the stroke for the movement of your hands and the movement of the putter so that there is no wobble at the hands. Then watch impact WHILE YOU EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS. If you made a wrong judgment, correct it on the NEXT putt. But for the moment, the best you have to work with is WHAT YOU DECIDE FOR THE GIVEN SHOT. Then even if you miss, if you execute your decisions, YOU HAVE MADE A PERFECT PUTT. Second guessing is putting’s worst bane. That and not knowing what distance is achieved BY the various amplitudes. In other words, calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com Wow…many comments…some of it very good….some very bad. Such as this one from the gentleman above: "…calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup…" It’s impossible to calibrate uniform distances with a putter because each green varies from one to another and during times of day. They will all vary differently on a stimpmeter.

Of course. So your calibration requires using judgment, adjustment, allowance FOR differences that occur from day to day, moment to moment, slope up, down, changes in green surface due to moisture, etc. But it STARTS with knowing the amplitude of stroke necesssary for given distances, found for the "day" on the practice green, which is usually the same depth of cut and the same kind of soil and grass as on the course, on a level surface. The calibration (Pelz’s system, incidentally) is not an automaton reaction to a "one size fits all" but a place to START. And its reliability is uncanny when it is laced with judgement and adjustment as needed. It is incredibly better than guessing! which is what most people do. If he’s referring to gauging on a practice green, this is closer to reality. but should be considered a guideline, not absolute because most practice greens will run differently than on-course greens due to traffic/usage.

Exactly. Another somewhat confusing statement was employing an "arc" in the swing a traditional putt with a blade putter DOES require an arc in the swing, whereas the standard swing with a heel-toe weighted putter does not.

Huh? Unless your shoulders are ABSOLUTEly above your ball and you do not contrive a straight line stroke, your swing WILL be an arc – albeit minimal since the shoulder will not be far from directly above the ball in any event. I’ve seen many people with different putting styles and stances. The one thing all sucessful putters have in common is: 1) Dominant eye over the clubhead. 2) Putter face impacts ball flush. 3) Backswing goes straight back and forward to attain the flush impact (non blade putters).

Not Brad Faxon or others of his caliber. No way. 4) Establish smooth tempo both back and forwards. 5) Remove negative thoughts 6) Establish a set pre-stroke routine and DO NOT DEVIATE from it.

All excellent advice except contriving straight line tracking. IMO. George Hibbard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

{stuff cut} I’ve seen many people with different putting styles and stances. The one thing all sucessful putters have in common is: 1) Dominant eye over the clubhead. 2) Putter face impacts ball flush. 3) Backswing goes straight back and forward to attain the flush impact (non blade putters). 4) Establish smooth tempo both back and forwards. 5) Remove negative thoughts 6) Establish a set pre-stroke routine and DO NOT DEVIATE from it.

and the 7th one thing is that good putters don’t try and see where their ball has gone immediately they have struck the ball. Crispin Roche

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am loosing my mind trying to get my putting inline with the rest of my game. I have been doing fine getting to the green and should be up and down way more often except my putting sucks soooo bad. I have tried to practice with a piece of wood to get the feeling of what it means to keep a strait line but when I am following the piece of wood it feels so unnatural. I have to have my arms extend forward on the backswing and then my arms tucked way in close to my body to follow through. How can I figure this out and get better with my putting? Thanks, Cliff Trying to contrive an online swing is unnatural and not what many golf teachers advocate. A natural arc permits natural physical mechanics to operate. MAKE your DECISIONS for putting: 1) line; 2) amplitude of stroke needed FOR the distance of the putt: AND THEN EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS WHILE NOT ALLOWING THE PUTTERFACE TO CHANGE ITS ANGLE – by keeping an absolutely uniform tempo of the stroke for the movement of your hands and the movement of the putter so that there is no wobble at the hands. Then watch impact WHILE YOU EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS. If you made a wrong judgment, correct it on the NEXT putt. But for the moment, the best you have to work with is WHAT YOU DECIDE FOR THE GIVEN SHOT. Then even if you miss, if you execute your decisions, YOU HAVE MADE A PERFECT PUTT. Second guessing is putting’s worst bane. That and not knowing what distance is achieved BY the various amplitudes. In other words, calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com

Wow…many comments…some of it very good….some very bad. Such as this one from the gentleman above: "…calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup…" It’s impossible to calibrate uniform distances with a putter because each green varies from one to another and during times of day. They will all vary differently on a stimpmeter. If he’s referring to gauging on a practice green, this is closer to reality. but should be considered a guideline, not absolute because most practice greens will run differently than on-course greens due to traffic/usage. Another somewhat confusing statement was employing an "arc" in the swing a traditional putt with a blade putter DOES require an arc in the swing, whereas the standard swing with a heel-toe weighted putter does not. I’ve seen many people with different putting styles and stances. The one thing all sucessful putters have in common is: 1) Dominant eye over the clubhead. 2) Putter face impacts ball flush. 3) Backswing goes straight back and forward to attain the flush impact (non blade putters). 4) Establish smooth tempo both back and forwards. 5) Remove negative thoughts 6) Establish a set pre-stroke routine and DO NOT DEVIATE from it. Good Luck!

Response:

Trying to contrive an online swing is unnatural and not what many golf teachers advocate. A natural arc permits natural physical mechanics to operate. MAKE your DECISIONS for putting: 1) line; 2) amplitude of stroke needed FOR the distance of the putt: AND THEN EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS WHILE NOT ALLOWING THE PUTTERFACE TO CHANGE ITS ANGLE – by keeping an absolutely uniform tempo of the stroke for the movement of your hands and the movement of the putter so that there is no wobble at the hands. Then watch impact WHILE YOU EXECUTE YOUR DECISIONS. If you made a wrong judgment, correct it on the NEXT putt. But for the moment, the best you have to work with is WHAT YOU DECIDE FOR THE GIVEN SHOT. Then even if you miss, if you execute your decisions, YOU HAVE MADE A PERFECT PUTT. Second guessing is putting’s worst bane. That and not knowing what distance is achieved BY the various amplitudes. In other words, calibrate your distances for different stroke lengths, write them down, and use that info when you have a putt. Always choose an amplitude that will produce a full one step MORE distance than just TO the cup. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hello, I am loosing my mind trying to get my putting inline with the rest of my game. I have been doing fine getting to the green and should be up and down way more often except my putting sucks soooo bad. I have tried to practice with a piece of wood to get the feeling of what it means to keep a strait line but when I am following the piece of wood it feels so unnatural. I have to have my arms extend forward on the backswing and then my arms tucked way in close to my body to follow through. How can I figure this out and get better with my putting?

Depending on how you set up, you don’t *want* to putt in a straight line. It sounds like your hands are not hanging directly below your shoulders, in which case you will putt on a curved path (sort of like a full swing). This is all explained pretty well in Pelz’s Putting Bible. If you can’t afford that book, get his shorter version – "Putt Like the Pros".

Response:

I think there is only one word to use to describe putting. Feel. There are so many different techniques, and not one that is right for everyone. explain. When I have problems with my putting, I find that I am trying to make to many little adjustments. To get rid of this I go back to sound fundamentals. Set your feet up parallel with the target line, put your eyes directly over the top of the ball. Have the ball in the middle of your stace. Stroke directly out from behind the ball, and then stroke directly through the ball, with the putter head parallel with the target line and you feet line. Use as many aids as you like to get this done. I.e. have a completely neutral square set up. This is goin to feel strange and odd, so you need to get someone to help make sure you are actually doing what you *think* you are doing. The final thing is to develop a good sound routine, that you repeat for EVERY put. Doesn’t have to take a lot of time, but you should do this every time, so you develop a reliable pattern that help you avoid the second guessing that can sometimes happen over a putt. Just my 2cents (or was that more like 10cents)

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