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Congratulations on the win. I believe you will win the court battle too. Tommy Anderson
I want to know what’s the big deal. If the PGA & other purists really want to *preserve* the game, why not make everyone hand in their super oversized graphite/titanium clubs & go back to hickory shafts and persimmon heads. The PGA needs to face facts – the times are a changin’ & they better change, too. By the way, I almost always walk, but I can live with riding if it means I can get out & hit the ball.
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Congratulations on the win. I believe you will win the court battle too.
Carts are part of golf these days. A vast majority of golfers ride carts. If you let Casey ride, you’ll have to let everybody ride. Some will claim a bad back, others will cite an advantage of having a cart. Even so, few will take a cart except when they feel they need one. All that said, here is the problem: Its a tactical one. From the Senior Tour we know that carts are a problem with large galleries. The senior’s rarely have large galleries, but when they do, the gallery all want’s to walk on the cart path, and it’s tough to dodge them, and when people are massed in thousands around a green, getting a cart through is a big hasstle. It’s also expensive and more work to make carts a part of the tournament. Not only providing the carts and the staff to service them, but the gallery ropes must be laid out differently to allow for entering and exiting the fairway. In a place like Phoenix where the galleries are huge, I can see a cart rider getting stuck in a crowd. Organizers oppose things that are more work and cost them money with no upside for them. It’s also difficult to time the pace of play. They have the seniors for a guide, but the bigger crowds and larger field (the seniors start 78, the juniors 156), will make finishing in time for the 6 O’clock news more of a variable. With 1 cart and 2 walkers in a group, will it be faster or slower? If its faster, they can wait on the next tee. If its slower and they get behind, it holds up the whole field. ZZyzx "Me, indecisive? I’m not so sure about that."
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England" I can see both viewpoints, and really don’t have a strong opinion either way. However, I think that "IF" he wins in court, that the PGA would only change the rules for people with a handicap. That is, if you have a long-term medical problem (not just a hurt foot this weekend) that can be substantiated by a medical doctor, then okay. Just like you have a handicap sticker for better parking. The PGA tour should implement a "handicap sticker" for those who can prove they are handicapped. This rules out the "everybody will take a cart" theory. Susan And a cart with a handicap sticker gets to park closer than 30 yds to the green? Just kidding, Susan 
If so, then on the LPGA, you should have an "expectant mother" sticker, and get a cart with that! Susan (who CAN"T STAND the thought of expectant mother parking…soon there will be "fat person" parking, also.)
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: If new law requires Casey Martin use golf cart to engage in his : profession the old PGA rule must yield. Is PGA above the law? : love bill hunt Not sure about that, but that’s of the main issues to be adjudicated. Is the PGA Tour a public or "private" organization? If private, they may be exempt from certain aspects of the Disabilities act. You can bet that the Tour wants to preserve its right to control terms and conditions of tournament play. That’s one reason why they (and the USGA) settled the Ping/Karsten/square grooves lawsuit out of court. Had they lost, they might have lost their ability to regulate the game. I can’t argue that some of their behavior isn’t anti-competitive, but if no one or no body governs the sport we’d have chaos, with balls going 500 yards and people putting like pool or croquet players.
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: If new law requires Casey Martin use golf cart to engage in his : profession the old PGA rule must yield. Is PGA above the law? : love bill hunt Not sure about that, but that’s of the main issues to be adjudicated. Is the PGA Tour a public or "private" organization? If private, they may be exempt from certain aspects of the Disabilities act. You can bet that the Tour wants to preserve its right to control terms and conditions of tournament play. That’s one reason why they (and the USGA) settled the Ping/Karsten/square grooves lawsuit out of court. Had they lost, they might have lost their ability to regulate the game. I can’t argue that some of their behavior isn’t anti-competitive, but if no one or no body governs the sport we’d have chaos, with balls going 500 yards and people putting like pool or croquet players. They are under government restriction, they are a public association, with membership criteria. brian
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My reply came back undelivered.What is address? love bill hunt
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If new law requires Casey Martin use golf cart to engage in his profession the old PGA rule must yield. Is PGA above the law? love bill hunt
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Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also).
Taking a more philosophical rather than confrontational posture as I Think back to when Hogan and Snead were unable to walk the course, how great it would have been to watch their great shotmaking. Perhaps they didn’t ask for special priviledges (or perhaps they did), but how many tournaments do you think these greats would have played if carts had been allowed? As far as the PGA, call it what you will. It is in reality, an entertainment company. Without TV coverage and sponsors who are trying to sell goods and services to all the viewers, where would it be?
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My two cents. If the pros were carrying their own bags, then clearly there would be a difference in riders versus walkers. But, the pros have caddies. One of the most strenuous things they do is tie their shoe laces. When I ride a cart, the getting in and out tires me as much as walking with the bag on my own shoulder. I can’t buy the fact that Casey Martin is really gaining an advantage. Because of that, I have to support him. I also believe in our ADA – Americans with Disabilities Act – is good legislation and should apply. However, Mr. Clarke, you do make one very good point! The vision of Tiger and Mark O’Meara riding gleefully down the fairway with Fluff in tow — that’s not the type of golf I want to see. Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England"
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why should he not be allowed to ride in a cart. For that matter why shouldn’t any pro golfer not be allowed to ride in a cart. Why do you care?? The only reason I’ve ever heard is it’s always been part of the game. Games can be changed. At one time you could stall a ball for the hole game in basketball, but they changed the rules. It is allowed. I would suggest that if carts were readily available back 100 years ago, or whenever golf started, pros would be riding in carts today. It seems to me the important part of golf is ball striking and putting. I would hate to think that the best ball striker and putter in the world could be physically disabled in some way and I would never get to see him (sorry could be her) play. YES, I would like to see this kind of professional golf. Mark
Ok, so we give all the players carts. Great idea but what about the spectators trying to keep up with them. No doubt you would want them to have carts too. I can see it now, the 18th fairway is lined with spectators in their carts and now here comes the new champion driving his cart to the green. What a complete crock. — Peter Fogarty
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England" I can see both viewpoints, and really don’t have a strong opinion either way. However, I think that "IF" he wins in court, that the PGA would only change the rules for people with a handicap. That is, if you have a long-term medical problem (not just a hurt foot this weekend) that can be substantiated by a medical doctor, then okay. Just like you have a handicap sticker for better parking. The PGA tour should implement a "handicap sticker" for those who can prove they are handicapped. This rules out the "everybody will take a cart" theory. Susan
And a cart with a handicap sticker gets to park closer than 30 yds to the green? Just kidding, Susan
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England"
Why should he not be allowed to ride in a cart. For that matter why shouldn’t any pro golfer not be allowed to ride in a cart. Why do you care?? The only reason I’ve ever heard is it’s always been part of the game. Games can be changed. At one time you could stall a ball for the hole game in basketball, but they changed the rules. It is allowed. I would suggest that if carts were readily available back 100 years ago, or whenever golf started, pros would be riding in carts today. It seems to me the important part of golf is ball striking and putting. I would hate to think that the best ball striker and putter in the world could be physically disabled in some way and I would never get to see him (sorry could be her) play. YES, I would like to see this kind of professional golf. Mark
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Why should he not be allowed to ride in a cart. For that matter why shouldn’t any pro golfer not be allowed to ride in a cart. Why do you care??
Anyone who has ever seen a contest played under hot and humid conditions or a 36 hole match in one day will recognize that the physical toll of walking the course is definitely part of the game. If the PGA allows pros to walk, it will change that. Golf competitions are full of arcane rules that have much less to do with scoring and hitting the ball into the hole. How about the rules on advice and the behavior of caddies? How many players have been disqualified for forgetting to sign their scorecards? How about the One ball rule? Golf is not alone in it’s arbitrary rules. Baseball, Football, Basketaball, and Hockey all have dozens, as I’m sure do Soccer, Rugby, Cricket, and every other competitive sport. Will letting pros ride in carts make some radical change to the game? I doubt it, certainly not as much as the "lift, clean, and place" rule that the pros so often exploit to create perfect lies and avoid hazards to their line of play. As others have said, a lot of pros probably won’t want to ride anyway, because unless the conditions of play are extreme, walking gives a lot of people a much better feel for the course. I, and I suspect a lot of other people do care, however, about the court case and would be disappointed to see Casey win his right to ride in court for two reasons: The case challenges the right of the PGA to establish the conditions of contest for their events. The condition (walking) clearly does impact the game, and allowing a court to decide it opens the door to suits at least as off-the-wall as those suggested by other posters. If opening the PGA to cart use encourages other players to ride, it is likely to cause more course opperators to forbid or discourage walking and impair my ability to play the game the way I want to. I wish it weren’t the case and were as simple as the common sense rule of letting each player choose, but history indicates that course owners in search of a quick buck will ban walking to increase cart rental revenue, and a significant customer base of walking golfers is the only real thing standing in the way. (Hmm, maybe walkers should find a way to use the court system too here, though I’m not sure how -:) In short, I admire Casey Martin both for his playing ability and his courage. I don’t think that letting him or any other pro ride will destroy the integrity of the game or the PGA and hope to see him on tour some day, but I wish this could be resolved without either setting a precident to encourage other lawsuits against the PGA and others setting the rules, or encouraging the general public to ride. (Then again perhaps the sight of a lot of pros in less than perfect condition riding in carts will disgust the public and drive them to other pursuits, leaving the golf course operators glad to have any paying customers, including those who walk, but it didn’t happen that way for the Senior tour.) — Warren Montgomery Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs Innovations wamontgomery <at lucent <dot com
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Congratulations on the win. I believe you will win the court battle too. Tommy Anderson
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Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England"
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Ironic win on the course, yes, and deserved congratulations. But a different story will unfold in the courtroom, I trust. LobWedge – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congratulations on the win. I believe you will win the court battle too. Tommy Anderson
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Anderson) writes: Congratulations on the win. I believe you will win the court
battle too. One thing the court doesn’t need to decide and that is the kid can play!!! FREDDY IN NJ
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Casey Martin should not be allowed to use a golf cart in ANY PGA TOUR It is too bad that he has a handicap that prevents him from walking a golf course, but the PGA should not make any exceptions to the rule (I have a handicap also). One an exception has been made, a precedence will be met, and soon we will be seeing Tiger Woods and Mark O’Meara driving down the 18th hole together in a golf cart with Fluff on the back of the cart. Do you want to see this kind of professional golf ?? Regards, Bill Clarke Norwich, CT – "The Rose of New England"
I can see both viewpoints, and really don’t have a strong opinion either way. However, I think that "IF" he wins in court, that the PGA would only change the rules for people with a handicap. That is, if you have a long-term medical problem (not just a hurt foot this weekend) that can be substantiated by a medical doctor, then okay. Just like you have a handicap sticker for better parking. The PGA tour should implement a "handicap sticker" for those who can prove they are handicapped. This rules out the "everybody will take a cart" theory. Susan