Question:
I’d certainly take a look at the the new Titleist 690.CB’s. Forged cavity-backs. Nice!
Agreed … the MBs are pretty sweet too. FV
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’d certainly take a look at the the new Titleist 690.CB’s. Forged cavity-backs. Nice! Jeff Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV SNIP
Response:
I hit the Pings well, but I love the MB-1s I had the opportunity to hit the MB-1s … thought they were very nice. Too bad they are out of production. If you ever sell them you know who to tell ;]. FreddyV
<snip They are sweet! It’s really a shame that Snake Eyes didn’t make it and was bought out by Golfsmith. I think Golfsmith would have a best seller if they got Smith & Wesson to start forging the heads again. You can sometimes find used sets on Ebay and GCE, usually in the $300 range. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Response:
http://www.golfclubexchange.com/ GCE?
<snip — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Response:
Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years
Well I have been playing Hogan Apex blades for 20 years now, so maybe not! Those clean hits are sweet. Blades are currently out of fashion, so you can get used ones really cheap, in fact, its cheaper for me to buy a used set then to put new grips on mine. My pro shop has an nice looking Hogan Apex 2-PW set(early 90’s vintage) for $50 and today had a "tent sale" and they were marked down to $10 and still nobody wants them. I would recommend you buy a cheap used set of blades, and if you don’t like them get the cavity back. The feel is definitely different between the two, but the results are the same as far as where the ball goes, the forgiveness of the cavity backs I think is all marketing hype.
Response:
GCE?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hit the Pings well, but I love the MB-1s I had the opportunity to hit the MB-1s … thought they were very nice. Too bad they are out of production. If you ever sell them you know who to tell ;]. FreddyV <snip They are sweet! It’s really a shame that Snake Eyes didn’t make it and was bought out by Golfsmith. I think Golfsmith would have a best seller if they got Smith & Wesson to start forging the heads again. You can sometimes find used sets on Ebay and GCE, usually in the $300 range. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Response:
I would seriously look at the Cleveland TA-3’s.
I think my shop has a demo set … I’ll take a look. Thanks, Freddy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Freddy, I would seriously look at the Cleveland TA-3’s. These are forged cavity backs that are very close to a blade. I played them for over three years and I was very pleased with them. I now play Hogan Apex blades (for about 3 months) and really enjoy them. Surprisingly the Hogan’s hit just about as far as the TA-3’s but are 2 degrees weaker in loft. The real difference I find between them is that the Hogan’s hit the ball much higher and are easier to draw than the TA-3s. Larry Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run but it could take six months to a year to learn. So here it is What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the Hogans. Since you are–quite smartly, BTW–getting lessons, and your instructor thinks that blades would work for you, get the Hogans. Beautiful clubs, IMO. I agree w/ the instructor, very forgiving CBs are clubs you’ll outgrow.
I love the look as well as the feel of the Hogans. Thanks to my local Pro Shop Vegas Golf’s, demo policy I’ve been able to try quite a few different brand clubs. I couldn’t image not getting instruction. I also own a video production co. and have been using that to my advantage by taping my swing each week. I also had my staff brainiac write a program that analyzes the swing from various angles in slowmo. Nothing like seeing your own swing … makes it so much easier to set goals to improve. FreddyV
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the Hogans. Since you are–quite smartly, BTW–getting lessons, and your instructor thinks that blades would work for you, get the Hogans. Beautiful clubs, IMO. I agree w/ the instructor, very forgiving CBs are clubs you’ll outgrow. And keep up w/ the lessons and practicing. Mike I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run but it could take six months to a year to learn. So here it is What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
I hit the Pings well, but I love the MB-1s
I had the opportunity to hit the MB-1s … thought they were very nice. Too bad they are out of production. If you ever sell them you know who to tell ;]. FreddyV
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the Hogans. Since you are–quite smartly, BTW–getting lessons, and your instructor thinks that blades would work for you, get the Hogans. Beautiful clubs, IMO. I agree w/ the instructor, very forgiving CBs are clubs you’ll outgrow. And keep up w/ the lessons and practicing. Mike I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV I switched a few years ago from Ping Eye 2s to Snake Eyes MB-1 muscle backs. I hit the Pings well, but I love the MB-1s. I get crisper hits with a high, yet more boring trajectory. I also love the sensory feedback I get. My wife used to hit DCIs, but after she tried hitting my MB-1s, she went out and bought herself a set, and she hits them very well also. I have also hit the Hogan Apex irons and I really like them too, in fact my 2 iron is an Apex. For me it’s a feel thing and probably a bit of a mental attitude thing, but I feel like I have a lot more control and confidence with muscle backs. A lot of really good players and pros do use cast cavity backs though, and they also get good results. So, I would go with your pro’s advice and what feels good to you. BTW, you can often get really good deals on used muscle backs in golf stores, or online. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Response:
In fact, the last four Major winners all played cavity back irons. British Open- Ernie Els- Taylormade 300 series PGA- Rich Beem- Taylormade 300 series Masters- Mike Weir- Taylormade 300 series US Open- Jim Furyk- Hogan Apex Plus James
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lot’s of pros use cavity back clubs, even Callaways. Charles Howell and Brian Henninger both play Callaway irons and there a ton of players using Pings James What pros out there use Cavity backs? I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run but it could take six months to a year to learn. So here it is What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
Lot’s of pros use cavity back clubs, even Callaways. Charles Howell and Brian Henninger both play Callaway irons and there a ton of players using Pings James
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What pros out there use Cavity backs? I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
by the way, I mean the men, not the women..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What pros out there use Cavity backs? I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
Hi Freddy, I would seriously look at the Cleveland TA-3’s. These are forged cavity backs that are very close to a blade. I played them for over three years and I was very pleased with them. I now play Hogan Apex blades (for about 3 months) and really enjoy them. Surprisingly the Hogan’s hit just about as far as the TA-3’s but are 2 degrees weaker in loft. The real difference I find between them is that the Hogan’s hit the ball much higher and are easier to draw than the TA-3s. Larry
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the Hogans. Since you are–quite smartly, BTW–getting lessons, and your instructor thinks that blades would work for you, get the Hogans. Beautiful clubs, IMO. I agree w/ the instructor, very forgiving CBs are clubs you’ll outgrow. And keep up w/ the lessons and practicing. Mike I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
I switched a few years ago from Ping Eye 2s to Snake Eyes MB-1 muscle backs. I hit the Pings well, but I love the MB-1s. I get crisper hits with a high, yet more boring trajectory. I also love the sensory feedback I get. My wife used to hit DCIs, but after she tried hitting my MB-1s, she went out and bought herself a set, and she hits them very well also. I have also hit the Hogan Apex irons and I really like them too, in fact my 2 iron is an Apex. For me it’s a feel thing and probably a bit of a mental attitude thing, but I feel like I have a lot more control and confidence with muscle backs. A lot of really good players and pros do use cast cavity backs though, and they also get good results. So, I would go with your pro’s advice and what feels good to you. BTW, you can often get really good deals on used muscle backs in golf stores, or online. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
Response:
I’d certainly take a look at the the new Titleist 690.CB’s. Forged cavity-backs. Nice! Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV
SNIP
Response:
What pros out there use Cavity backs?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Fredd, it isn’t "forged vs. cavity back." It’s forged vs. cast, or blade vs. cavity back. The first involves the manufacturing method; forged is much more expensive than cast methods; the second is whether the clubhead has perimeter weighting or not. Someone at your stage of game/learning should almost certainly use a cavity-back design. Do you need forged, which will really run up the price? No. Forged irons are usually thought of as being for better players, though that’s been challenged lately by the OEMs. Some claim the feel is better with forged; others say you can’t tell the difference. The truth is, you can get forged cavity backs, cast blades, and variations here and there. Since you’re taking lessons, you might ask the pro for some advice. Mike Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
The only part of your post I would disagree with is the comment that switching to forged blades later in your golfing career will force you to relearn some things….whoever told you this is giving far too much credit to a cavity-back cast-iron club’s ability to "mask" swing flaws. I think the point they were trying to make is a good one, however: don’t get clubs with such a high degree of "forgiveness"—like offset in the woods, large offset in the irons — that it delays your swing development over time. In other words, most beginners slice the ball and take awhile to improve their technique to the point where they hit the ball fairly straight and can hit a draw when they want to….offset clubs or deep cavity back clubs help to mask (to some degree) your swing tendencies that cause this effect….
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV
I don’t think you can go wrong w/ the Hogans. Since you are–quite smartly, BTW–getting lessons, and your instructor thinks that blades would work for you, get the Hogans. Beautiful clubs, IMO. I agree w/ the instructor, very forgiving CBs are clubs you’ll outgrow. And keep up w/ the lessons and practicing. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
– Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
Excuse me … I stand corrected. I did indeed mean Blades vs. Cavity Back. Thanks for all the replies and advice so far … I’m sure the issue has been beat to death but I’m new so thanks for the slack. My current instructor says I need stiff (S300) and said I could learn blades fairly quick and very forgiving CBs would be somewhat of an injustice in the long term. So far I’ve hit Hogan blades, Ping I3+, I3+ Blades and I’ve been using my son’s set of Ping Eye 2s. All 4 "feel" good but I have to admit that the "sense and feel" of a truly clean hit off the I3+ blades and Hogan Apex feels great. Also I hate buying twice … yes, I know I’ll probably buy 10 sets over the years but I have this overwhelming sense at this beginning stage that I should get and need what’s best for me so I’ve been putting myself through the ringer over the decision. I just don’t want to get or do anything at my green stage that will catch up with me later. I’m looking and thinking long term. I think I put less thought into getting married. I now view golf as a lifestyle as well as a sport and the idea of doing anything dumb in my formative stage erks the hell out of me. Thanks, FreddyV
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV
Response:
BTW, Golfsmith has their Tour Cavity Forged heads on sale for 19.98 each (regularly $25.50). Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
As others will tell you, there’s no necessary connection between the style of clubhead and method of manufacture. As a beginner you’d likely be more happy with cavity back clubs, since you’re going to mis-hit more often than not. There’s a whole world of cavity back clubs, from low-handicap player’s designs like the Mizuno MP-30 to ultra-forgiving game improvement clubs like the X-16’s you mention. I’d suggest something in between – a reasonable cavity that will be more forgiving than a blade, but without the extreme bottom-weighting and offset of the X-16 that could be a hindrance when you improve. There are dozens if not hundreds of brands of irons in this range. But whatever clubs you choose, make sure you get fitted for proper shaft flex, lie angle, grip, etc. These are just as important as the style of clubhead you choose. Also, try to fight off the influence of testosterone when buying clubs. If the person fitting you suggests a senior flex shaft, then get a senior flex shaft. If the person fitting you gently suggests something like an X-16 after looking at your swing, be honest with yourself in assessing your potential future level of skill. You will not enjoy the game if you buy stiff-shafted blades and can’t hit them.
Response:
I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run.
You are mixing apples and oranges. "Cavity Back" is a design style. "Forged" is a manufacturing process. Many people confuse this too, which is one reason there is so much mystique surrounding forged irons. Generally, cavity back irons are considered to be more forgiving, whether they are forged or cast. Blade or muscle back irons are considered to be less forgiving, but easier to curve left or right, than cavity backs. Blades or muscle backs usually only come in forged, hence some of the confusion. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point …
That’s probably because there really isn’t much difference… except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too
late. Nah. Get some decent cavity back clubs, just like some of the pros. You’ll see mishits by how they fly in the air (or don’t.)
Response:
Just one misconception to clear up–it’s not either…or. You can buy forged cavity backs (golfsmith, kzg for starters). Forged refers to the process used to make the clubheads (forged versus cast). What you are really asking (and didn’t know it) is the old "blades vs cavity back" question which arises here often. And with that I’ll leave it to someone who has actually hit blades (and/or musclebacks to further cloud the issue). :-) Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
I’m new to the game (1 month). Having a son that works at Desert Pines Las Vegas I have ample discounted range and tee time. I learned to hit a driver first which I was told was taking the hard route but I can hit long, straight drives now. I promptly signed up for lessons. Using Nike Learning Center now (you get 4 times what you pay in free goods and time) but have already contacted Jimmy Bullard and the Harmon boys (Las Vegas) for further lessons. Here’s the hitch … I’m now having a bit of a hard time hitting irons … but that’s another story. I borrowed a set from my son but I now want my own. I know that this stage of learning is most likely my formative period so I am looking to do what is right for my long term game and I’m willing to put in the time and pay my dues. I get to the range 4 – 5 times per week and can play every day if that is what I choose to do. On to the I’ve been told the cavity back clubs such as X-16 and the like are very easy to hit but will mask some faults, hiding a less than perfect swing. It is also my understanding that forged clubs are less forgiving and have a longer learning curve but will lead to a better swing and game in the long run. I’ve also seen the hybrids such as the Hogan Apex. I’ve hit all 3 flavors but truthfully can’t discern the differences at this point … except that a bad hit with a blade tends to hurt and a good hit goes long, straight and feels like I hit a cotton ball. I’m also being told that if I start with CBs I can get out a play decent in short order but if I switch later I’ll have to relearn much and for certain faults it might be too late. Also, if I start with forged my swing/game will be better in the long run What type should I start with? Thanks in advance, FreddyV