Question:
[… Toldeo is a class act. I have met him more than once and he has always been nice.
As opposed to Dawson, who is an egocentric churl. Never liked him much to begin with (his swing gives me hives), but really got to see the real Marco last summer. Missing left with his tee shot was not the place to put his ball, so when he hit a low pull hook, the words out of his mouth were, "Get down ball! Hit somebody!" Indeed. I’m sure Marco would have much preferred that a person be hospitalized than have a bad lie or lose his ball. After all, a stroke or two can cost you real money, so if it only means that a little kid in the gallery loses his eyesight, no big deal. If he wasn’t rich, my guess is that he’d turn to crime. Of course, the ever-adored Davis Love isn’t much better. He and his brother were discussing a shot a couple of years ago, and decided that the safe shot was to fly the ball into the gallery behind the green. It’s one thing to accidentally hit people in the gallery, but quite another to intentionally aim for them. Guess I’m just not competitive enough. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -At the scorers tent is the time to settle scoring disputes, not 2 days after. If the card was signed and attested by both, it should stand. Good for Toledo keeping his card. tim
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – he’s not complaining about the rule infingement. he obviously stuffed up there. but dawson reported him after the round resulting in DQ rather than just a penalty. this would be different if toledo was trying to cheat but everyone makes mistakes. considering that dawson said he thought it was a bit unusual at the time of the drop but said nothing until afterwards is not the nicest thing to do. of course he is under no obligations to say anything but if he does it any more he is going to have a very hard and lonely life on tour. i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. Toledo also said he would rather be Mr. 126 with honor than a questionable 124. Dawson is a questionable 107, probably for many years to come.
Toldeo is a class act. I have met him more than once and he has always been nice. At the scorers tent is the time to settle scoring disputes, not 2 days after. If the card was signed and attested by both, it should stand. Good for Toledo keeping his card. tim
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dawson would be considered dishonorable by the other players because instead of looking out for his fellow competitors he went out of his way to get them DQ’d. Of course he only has responsiblity for himself but DQing another player when he could have just penalised them is pretty rough treatment. I don’t get what he meant by that. What did Toledo do that was honorable, tell the truth when questioned about what happened (and only after someone called him on it)? If so, then how was what Dawson did dishonorable, if Toledo did, in fact, break the rule? I think the responsibility of "looking out for his fellow competitors", also referred to as "protecting the field", is just what Dawson did. It’s not covering up for someone who breaks the rules.
You have to remember here that what Dawson did was observe Toledo make the drop without comment and then after the fact *CLAIM* that he though, hmmm, I don’t think he did that right…and this is the second time he has done such a thing. I can’t see that going down well with other players on the tour. Toledo seems much more upset with that fact of Dawson’s behavior than the illegal drop, as evidenced by Toledo’s comments. That they make after the fact calls in golf is an embarassment to golf. Even instant replay is not well liked by a lot of football types, and that’s a minute of so after the fact. After the fact rulings are bush league (although you don’t see them in bush leagues either, only in golf). — RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=frostback "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dawson would be considered dishonorable by the other players because instead of looking out for his fellow competitors he went out of his way to get them DQ’d. Of course he only has responsiblity for himself but DQing another player when he could have just penalised them is pretty rough treatment. I don’t get what he meant by that. What did Toledo do that was honorable, tell the truth when questioned about what happened (and only after someone called him on it)? If so, then how was what Dawson did dishonorable, if Toledo did, in fact, break the rule? I think the responsibility of "looking out for his fellow competitors", also referred to as "protecting the field", is just what Dawson did. It’s not covering up for someone who breaks the rules. You have to remember here that what Dawson did was observe Toledo make the drop without comment and then after the fact *CLAIM* that he though, hmmm, I don’t think he did that right…and this is the second time he has done such a thing. I can’t see that going down well with other players on the tour. Toledo seems much more upset with that fact of Dawson’s behavior than the illegal drop, as evidenced by Toledo’s comments. That they make after the fact calls in golf is an embarassment to golf. Even instant replay is not well liked by a lot of football types, and that’s a minute of so after the fact. After the fact rulings are bush league (although you don’t see them in bush leagues either, only in golf).
The way I read it, in addition to Dawson *CLAIMING* that Toledo made the wrong drop, they got Toledo and a Rules Official out to the course and Toledo admitted the facts of the matter. So Toledo did, in fact, make an incorrect drop. It wasn’t Dawson making some unsubstantiated *CLAIM*, as you put it. The fact that it was made after the scorecard was signed and resulted in a DQ also had no effect, because Toledo would have missed the cut anyway with the 2 stroke penalty.
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That is insane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see this…. http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=19175
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Dawson would be considered dishonorable by the other players because instead of looking out for his fellow competitors he went out of his way to get them DQ’d. Of course he only has responsiblity for himself but DQing another player when he could have just penalised them is pretty rough treatment. I don’t get what he meant by that. What did Toledo do that was honorable, tell the truth when questioned about what happened (and only after someone called him on it)? If so, then how was what Dawson did dishonorable, if Toledo did, in fact, break the rule?
I think the responsibility of "looking out for his fellow competitors", also referred to as "protecting the field", is just what Dawson did. It’s not covering up for someone who breaks the rules.
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golf is the only game where the player must call the penalty on themself. each player keeps his own score, and signs his own card. if they fail to do it correctly, they suffer the ultimate penalty of disqualification. jk
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself. This is crap. There’s no other sport in which a rules call happens after the event or play is over. You don’t go back and throw a flag for a holding call once the play is over, you don’t go back and call a foul after the game is over, you don’t go back and review a tape and call a ball out in tennis after the rally is over, you don’t review a play in football after the game and decide it really WAS a touchdown. This is stupid, and makes golf look ridiculous. The USGA needs to review this rule, and make the change. Every tour event has officials with every group, and if they don’t make the call right then and there, that should be the rub of the green, and the match stands.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself. This is crap. There’s no other sport in which a rules call happens after the event or play is over. You don’t go back and throw a flag for a holding call once the play is over, you don’t go back and call a foul after the game is over, you don’t go back and review a tape and call a ball out in tennis after the rally is over, you don’t review a play in football after the game and decide it really WAS a touchdown. This is stupid, and makes golf look ridiculous. The USGA needs to review this rule, and make the change. Every tour event has officials with every group, and if they don’t make the call right then and there, that should be the rub of the green, and the match stands.
Come on Larry, he screwed up "nearest point of relief." This should be elementary. If he didn’t understand it he should have called an official. That being said, Dawson should be looking out for his fellows, as is customary, not playing gotcha. — bill-o
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Toledo also said he would rather be Mr. 126 with honor than a questionable 124.
I don’t get what he meant by that. What did Toledo do that was honorable, tell the truth when questioned about what happened (and only after someone called him on it)? If so, then how was what Dawson did dishonorable, if Toledo did, in fact, break the rule?
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Dawson would be considered dishonorable by the other players because instead of looking out for his fellow competitors he went out of his way to get them DQ’d. Of course he only has responsiblity for himself but DQing another player when he could have just penalised them is pretty rough treatment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t get what he meant by that. What did Toledo do that was honorable, tell the truth when questioned about what happened (and only after someone called him on it)? If so, then how was what Dawson did dishonorable, if Toledo did, in fact, break the rule?
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Toledo also said he would rather be Mr. 126 with honor than a questionable 124. Dawson is a questionable 107, probably for many years to come.
Well put. —
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This is crap. There’s no other sport in which a rules call happens after the event or play is over. You don’t go back and throw a flag for a holding call once the play is over, you don’t go back and call a foul after the game is over, you don’t go back and review a tape and call a ball out in tennis after the rally is over, you don’t review a play in football after the game and decide it really WAS a touchdown. This is stupid, and makes golf look ridiculous. The USGA needs to review this rule, and make the change. Every tour event has officials with every group, and if they don’t make the call right then and there, that should be the rub of the green, and the match stands.
A four round golf tournament isn’t over after the second round. Generally, PGA Tour events do not have a rules official with each group. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself.
This is crap. There’s no other sport in which a rules call happens after the event or play is over. You don’t go back and throw a flag for a holding call once the play is over, you don’t go back and call a foul after the game is over, you don’t go back and review a tape and call a ball out in tennis after the rally is over, you don’t review a play in football after the game and decide it really WAS a touchdown. This is stupid, and makes golf look ridiculous. The USGA needs to review this rule, and make the change. Every tour event has officials with every group, and if they don’t make the call right then and there, that should be the rub of the green, and the match stands.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – he’s not complaining about the rule infingement. he obviously stuffed up there. but dawson reported him after the round resulting in DQ rather than just a penalty. this would be different if toledo was trying to cheat but everyone makes mistakes. considering that dawson said he thought it was a bit unusual at the time of the drop but said nothing until afterwards is not the nicest thing to do. of course he is under no obligations to say anything but if he does it any more he is going to have a very hard and lonely life on tour. i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited.
Toledo also said he would rather be Mr. 126 with honor than a questionable 124. Dawson is a questionable 107, probably for many years to come. — RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=frostback "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell
Response:
he’s not complaining about the rule infingement. he obviously stuffed up there. but dawson reported him after the round resulting in DQ rather than just a penalty. this would be different if toledo was trying to cheat but everyone makes mistakes. considering that dawson said he thought it was a bit unusual at the time of the drop but said nothing until afterwards is not the nicest thing to do. of course he is under no obligations to say anything but if he does it any more he is going to have a very hard and lonely life on tour. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself. jk
Next time you see Mr. Toledo, you should tell him this. I think a lot of pros could use this sort of advice! ;^) — RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=frostback "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself. jk see this…. http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=19175 Wow, looks like Marco is going to have a ton of people just salivating to be in his group! What’s the deal that he can’t bring it up before the round is over? 2 strokes vs. a DQ is substantial; I’d be hacked off too…….
I see you point, but this is teh second time that Marco Dawson has called arulles violation *after* the round was over, this year. See the pattern?
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see this…. http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=19175
Wow, looks like Marco is going to have a ton of people just salivating to be in his group! What’s the deal that he can’t bring it up before the round is over? 2 strokes vs. a DQ is substantial; I’d be hacked off too…….
Response:
(quote from the news story) "Esteban Toledo lashed out at Marco Dawson for waiting a day to report an improper drop, which led to Toledo being disqualified from the Funai Classic as he desperately tries to keep his PGA Tour card." i think mr. toledo should learn the rules of golf…he is, after all, a professional. if i were in his position, trying to keep my card, i think i’d do everything possible to do just that…and it would include being sure of every drop and possible rules interpretation. they do have rules officials on course. he should have waited. did stadler complain when a tv viewer called in to report the "build a stance with a towel" incident? no. he dq’ed himself. mr. toledo should place the blame where it lies…on himself. jk
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – see this…. http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=19175 Wow, looks like Marco is going to have a ton of people just salivating to be in his group! What’s the deal that he can’t bring it up before the round is over? 2 strokes vs. a DQ is substantial; I’d be hacked off too…….
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Heard some blurb on the Golf Channel about some rules controversy, but missed it.
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see this…. http://sports.yahoo.golfserv.com/gdc/news/article.asp?id=19175
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heard some blurb on the Golf Channel about some rules controversy, but missed it.