Girl wins Va. High School AAA State Championship

Question:

*side note The last time I checked Jenny’s drive speed she averaged 96-98 mph with a peak at 102. She can flat out poke the ball. -ss RSG roll call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=shireys

If she can whup the ball that well, she should be playing the same tees. Heck, my SS is topped out at 80mph, and I can nail it around 240-ish. -Diva T-

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I wouldn’t want to win a golf tournament while playing the game differently than the other people.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63004-2002Oct8.html Could someone post the URL to the article? I did a Google search on "Jenny Suh AAA" but could only find some of her other accomplishments. Thanks Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? 1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T- I agree that 4% shorter is better than a 15% shorter, but unless a girl plays from the same tees as the boys, any victory will always be suspect.

I agree, but you know how the NOW/PC crowd is…. I’d rather her beat the guys at the stipulated yardage, but not all ladies (girls) are like me. -Diva T-

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I’m not so sure focusing on the yardage difference (which seems to be the dominate theme in most of the posts here) tells whether there was some sort of "parity" or not.

Well, it was the only factor that the article discussed explicitly. E.g. it noted that on the 400 yd 18th, a par 5, she hit 5 wood, 3 wood to chipping distance. Do you believe the boys could have done the same from 540 yds? That’s the only example we were given, and it certainly makes the course setup seem facially unfair. Of course, there may have been one or more other holes that give the boys a comparable advantage in club selection, but we didn’t hear about them. Personally, I’d be looking at the USGA course ratings from the respective tees (men’s and women’s) to see how the course should play for scratch males and females to decide who got gypped. It was 71.5 from the tips and 71.7 from the forward tees.

That’s a fair comparison, but begs the question of whether this competition should be handicapped at all (the second-most dominant theme of the posts here). Historically, girls have been allowed to compete in this tournament because there was not a tournament for just girls. This year for the first time in Virginia there will be such a tournament. Maybe that will be reason enough to kick out the girls out of this one in the future.

No need to kick them out; just hold them to the same standard, like the US Open does. Was it fair not to have _everyone_ playing from the same tees. I have mixed feelings about it. For sure, everyone knew the rules going in, so it’s silly to bitch about it afterwards. If you don’t like the rules, the time to bitch about them is ahead of the tournament when maybe something can be done about it.

Neither you nor I know how much bitching about it was done beforehand. If I’m a competing guy who saw her lose to me the year before only because she five-putted, I sure would have been bitching beforehand. Would Jenny have scored the same from the back tees? Probably not. OTOH, I wonder how many of the guys could have bettered the 65 she shot in the first round if they got to use the forward tees?

I’d lay better than even money that the second, third and fourth place boys would all have bettered her total from the front tees. E.g., that 18th is likely going to leave more than one makeable eagle putt in that threesome. Jesse

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Kenny : stated with great wisdom and forethought Was it fair not to have _everyone_ playing from the same tees. I have mixed feelings about it. For sure, everyone knew the rules going in, so it’s silly to bitch about it afterwards. If you don’t like the rules, the time to bitch about them is ahead of the tournament when maybe something can be done about it. Damn square Kenny. She didn’t brake any rules. I suppose the person to blame for this whole fiasco is, well, me. Because I think she is still hitting the #3wd I sold her last year. I guess I should feel very ashamed right now. ..yea, right. -ss sales monkey extraordinaire RSG roll call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=shireys

Scott, I knew there had to be a reason!!!! :-) Something else. She works on her game all the time. About 5 or 6 years ago her family played at the the same club Gayle and I used to belong to. The kid was about 12 I guess. In the summer, her parents dropped her off early and picked her up late. She golfed all damn day, every day. It looks like it’s paying off. Kenny — Kenny Stultz RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk Troll and SPAM intolerant

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My old club had me (the goil) playing off the middle tees in our member tournaments and gave me 3 strokes b/c my handicap was figured from the forward tees. IMHO, if women are playing in a handicapped tournament, they should either be allowed to play off the tees from which they post their scores for handicap or get the differential I was allowed when playing off the middle tees. By the way, Jenny Suh was the only girl in the tournament and she whupped them all. Either a bunch of boys are going to be heading back to the driving range to work on their games or they’ll be complaining that she didn’t play the same tees as they did.

A small anecdote, if you will allow me: had a kid from Spain staying with us one summer who was a 0 handicap and played on their national team. I’d just come off the State Amateur and ranted about what amazing women were on the Indiana University team who played in the state am. He sneered that no woman could come near beating *him*, so I arranged for him to play with two of the women from the IU team at what used to be the old Speedway GC (now the unrecognizable Brickyard). Drove him over there on The Day and intoduced him to the two young ladies. He said he would be happy to compete with them…off the same tees. The ladies looked at each other and shrugged, sed, okay, and off they went. Mind you, old Speedway was one helluva long course. Tight as hell and the bunkers were kitty litter. Just awful. But a grand old course (until Mr. Railroad Tie Pete Dye f*cked it up). I arrived back to pick them up and sat out on the patio with some aulde f*rts who were swigging beers and settling bets. I saw the 3 kids coming up the 18 fairway and the geezers were watching, too. It was a tough finishing hole – about 400 yards straightaway off the tee, a creek running alongside one side of the fairway and OB running alongside the other, until the fairway doglegs abruptly right about 90 yards before the green. There are 6 bunkers on the greenside of the creek, all over the d*mned place. The geezers are watching the approaching 3-some, as they place their shots within about 3′ of the pin. "Dang!" is pretty much the general opinion. Then the geezers focus on the group and realize who must have made 2 of the 3 shots and made noises about what good approach shots they were. Upon the kids’ arrival at my table, the geezers wanted to know who’d won amid much grinning and elbowing at the male competitor, who just grimly said something about "I had a very off-day." <g Terry "Squeaks" Pulliam AAC(F)BV66.0748.CA "Golf is a game of inches. Inches into the sand, inches into the water, inches into the woods…"

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Exactly! That’s what the third place finisher said – that maybe he should play in the girls tournament next spring.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That would be because she can’t compete with the boys at the same distance. Of course she does not seem to understand the concept that longer holes tend to be more difficult and somehow manage to inflate your score. "It’s not like because I hit from the red tees the ball magically went in. I still had to deal with the fast greens, I still had to put it in the hole." One day, some boy whose Dad is a lawyer is going to play in the "girls" tournament and then the bitchin’ and moanin’ is going to start. Steve I’m confused. a girl beat the boys in a state run tournament? Why wasn’t see competing against other girls or why wasn’t see hitting from the same tees as the boys if she was competing against boys? — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/earleyd.htm Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? 1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T-

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Kenny : stated with great wisdom and forethought Was it fair not to have _everyone_ playing from the same tees. I have mixed feelings about it. For sure, everyone knew the rules going in, so it’s silly to bitch about it afterwards. If you don’t like the rules, the time to bitch about them is ahead of the tournament when maybe something can be done about it.

Damn square Kenny. She didn’t brake any rules. I suppose the person to blame for this whole fiasco is, well, me. Because I think she is still hitting the #3wd I sold her last year. I guess I should feel very ashamed right now. ..yea, right. -ss sales monkey extraordinaire RSG roll call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=shireys

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Kenny, I think you’re absolutely right, but it’ll probably start a long discussion here. We had the same discussion at my club when we learned that when men and women are playing in the same tournament, the women get an extra three handicap strokes because their rating is 72.5 and the men’s rating is 69.7. By the way, Jenny Suh was the only girl in the tournament and she whupped them all. Either a bunch of boys are going to be heading back to the driving range to work on their games or they’ll be complaining that she didn’t play the same tees as they did. … Tom

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Yeah, all good points. I saw on TV about a girl who was competing against other High School boys in wrestling matches and also about this one girl who was playing for her school’s football team and they all were subjected to the same rules as the boys.

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Good for Jenny. But blame the Virginia AAA officials for this one. She should have played from the championship tees. If this were archery, bowling, cross-country, soccer, etc, she would not have had the unfair advantage. Put an asterisk by that one. — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Golfers are meant to suffer." - Ian MacCallister

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One day, some boy whose Dad is a lawyer is going to play in the "girls" tournament and then the bitchin’ and moanin’ is going to start.

Yup.

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Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments?

I’m not so sure focusing on the yardage difference (which seems to be the dominate theme in most of the posts here) tells whether there was some sort of "parity" or not. Personally, I’d be looking at the USGA course ratings from the respective tees (men’s and women’s) to see how the course should play for scratch males and females to decide who got gypped. It was 71.5 from the tips and 71.7 from the forward tees. Historically, girls have been allowed to compete in this tournament because there was not a tournament for just girls. This year for the first time in Virginia there will be such a tournament. Maybe that will be reason enough to kick out the girls out of this one in the future. Was it fair not to have _everyone_ playing from the same tees. I have mixed feelings about it. For sure, everyone knew the rules going in, so it’s silly to bitch about it afterwards. If you don’t like the rules, the time to bitch about them is ahead of the tournament when maybe something can be done about it. Would Jenny have scored the same from the back tees? Probably not. OTOH, I wonder how many of the guys could have bettered the 65 she shot in the first round if they got to use the forward tees? Kenny — Kenny Stultz Troll and Spam Intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk

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Of course – it really makes no sense. There should either be a separate tournament for girls, or all "open" players play from the same tees. It’s the same as when that woman "won" the PGA sectional tournament, or whatever it was, and qualified for the…. PGA was it? She played from the women’s tees, and then said she didn’t know if she’d play in the regular tournament because she’d have to play from the same tees as the men. What’s the point?

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63004-2002Oct8.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone post the URL to the article? I did a Google search on "Jenny Suh AAA" but could only find some of her other accomplishments. Thanks Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments?

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Could someone post the URL to the article? I did a Google search on "Jenny Suh AAA" but could only find some of her other accomplishments. Thanks

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Handicapped based on sex, not skill. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? Too big a difference on that hole, but ultimately, what you have is a handicapped tournament. That’s all it is. Relax. Mike — Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean! GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/ RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? 1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T-

I agree that 4% shorter is better than a 15% shorter, but unless a girl plays from the same tees as the boys, any victory will always be suspect.

Response:

Too big a difference on that hole, but ultimately, what you have is a handicapped tournament. That’s all it is. Relax. Mike — Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean! GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/ RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim

Response:

That would be because she can’t compete with the boys at the same distance. Of course she does not seem to understand the concept that longer holes tend to be more difficult and somehow manage to inflate your score. "It’s not like because I hit from the red tees the ball magically went in. I still had to deal with the fast greens, I still had to put it in the hole." One day, some boy whose Dad is a lawyer is going to play in the "girls" tournament and then the bitchin’ and moanin’ is going to start. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m confused. a girl beat the boys in a state run tournament? Why wasn’t see competing against other girls or why wasn’t see hitting from the same tees as the boys if she was competing against boys? — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/earleyd.htm Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? 1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T-

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1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T-

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Yep. Next thing you know women will be running 100 m dash together with men, but only for 80 m or so. Or using a different board in the long jump… You get my drift. It don’t make no sense!!!

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I’m confused. a girl beat the boys in a state run tournament? Why wasn’t see competing against other girls or why wasn’t see hitting from the same tees as the boys if she was competing against boys? — "Born to Golf. Forced to Work." Dan Earley RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/earleyd.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Washington Post reported Jenny Suh won the Va. AAA championship by making birdie on the 400 yard 18th hole par 5 (which the boys played at 540 yards). I think she should have played the same tees, not 1100 yards less than the boys. Frankly I feel sorry for the young man who lost by a stroke. Comments? 1100 yards is a certainly huge difference. Make her play, if there is some insistence, 4% difference, but not 15%. 400 yards is a par 4, no other question about it! -Diva T-

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