Question:
I have heard it "from the horse’s mouth" so to speak.
That is one flexible horse. — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd Troll Intolerant: http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/philosophy.html
Response:
I have heard it "from the horse’s mouth" so to speak. That is one flexible horse. — –dph
I was thinking of another orifice on the horse, at the opposite end to the mouth. — David RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca
Response:
" I can hardly believe Earnest Jones said that about transferring feel to arms, and dead hands. I have the book, can you tell me the page? Thanks Puttster Hi Puttster, Lucky you. I don’t have a copy. I would buy that book if you want to sell it. Here is a direct quote from Manuel De La Torre’s book–"Understanding the Golf Swing" which paraphrases Ernest Jones and modernizes his teaching (his words) <snip The hands must be used exclusively to swing the clubhead from the ball to the end of the backswing, where the arms take over and swing the entire club to the end of the swing." CentriSwing
Larry, you are being sold a bil of goods. Earnest. is rolling over in his grave that someone is stealing his good name to market an "arms" swing. How can you build a whole business advertising around a principle someone "told you" is an Earnest Jones method? What B.S.! Puttster
Response:
I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…?
David Leadbetter teaches meeting positions in the swing in his "The Full Golf Swing" video. According to David in the backswing when the left arm reaches the horizontal position the wrists are fully cocked and the butt of the club points between the toe line and the target line. He restates this by saying the club is slightly more vertical at this point. The student in the video(and me coincidentally) had his club horizontal at the left arm horizontal backswing position. When I tried it, it made the club seem much lighter for some reason(David says it feels balanced). It fixed a bunch of my problems…for a while. I hate it when you have to fix things several times. Golf is fun, golf is fun.
Response:
I am extremely lucky that the Head Pro at my club is Gary Sowinski– a famous STC teacher and who himself is still nationally competitive.
On the Buy.Com Tour he ranks 111th in pars, 128th in driving distance and 96th in GER. Is this what Centrispam did for him? David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
David Leadbetter teaches meeting positions in the swing in his "The Full Golf Swing" video. According to David in the backswing when the left arm reaches the horizontal position the wrists are fully cocked and the butt of the club points between the toe line and the target line. He restates this by saying the club is slightly more vertical at this point. The student in the video(and me coincidentally) had his club horizontal at the left arm horizontal backswing position. When I tried it, it made the club seem much lighter for some reason(David says it feels balanced).
Because when the club is vertical it has no moment of arm. The more horizontal it gets the more moment of arm it has making it feel heavier. It also puts your hands under the club in a better position to support it. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
"Most of the common problems, from loss of power, to the tendency to slice, to shots that are poorly struck, all are related to a weak right side." [...] "In all of our students, from beginners to tour professionals, we have yet to find one who dominates with the left side and is able to successfully play the game". Cheers, Mike
Hi Mike, Well Dr. Melvin is sure going to be dissappointed to learn that the method that took him from 18 to single-digit handicap and made him a long-driving competitor doesn’t work! ha He strongly advocates drilling to make the left arm dominate, staying very "connected" to power our swing with a strong torso turn and pull down with the left arm leading. His drills include completely releasing the club with the right hand just before impact (the ball goes the same distance if you do it right!). AND, btw, he can hit it 350 yards like that! Not exactly weak. But, you say he is wrong. VJ Singh and about 100 other touring pros who use the Whippy clubs and Dr. Melvin’s training methods must be just devastated to learn that SLAP is better. AND, BTW, slice is caused by opening the shoulders before the arms come down and through. To stop slicing, simply swing your arms down and through BEFORE your shoulders open. The clubhead path will be in-to-out and you will hit straight or draw. CentriSwing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
Ernest Jones (the most popular teach of all time) taught that students should take the club up with hand consciousness and then transfer our feel to the upper arms and chest for the downswing with "dead" hands. He knew that ANY thinking or trying to DO something with hands during the downswing is usually disastrous
I can hardly believe Earnest Jones said that about transferring feel to arms, and dead hands. I have the book, can you tell me the page? Thanks Puttster
Response:
Ernest Jones (the most popular teach of all time) taught that students should take the club up with hand consciousness and then transfer our feel to the upper arms and chest for the downswing with "dead" hands. He knew that ANY thinking or trying to DO something with hands during the downswing is usually disastrous I can hardly believe Earnest Jones said that about transferring feel to arms, and dead hands. I have the book, can you tell me the page? Thanks Puttster
Hi Puttster, Lucky you. I don’t have a copy. I would buy that book if you want to sell it. Here is a direct quote from Manuel De La Torre’s book–"Understanding the Golf Swing" which paraphrases Ernest Jones and modernizes his teaching (his words) "Backswing: To produce the backswing, the player must swing the clubhead back with the hands (both hands) toward the right shoulder (left shoulder for left-handed players) so that when the backswing is completed, the club is over the shoulder. The hands must be used because a coil has to be created in order to be able to generate the desired speed. The hands must be used exclusively to swing the clubhead from the ball to the end of the backswing, where the arms take over and swing the entire club to the end of the swing." There is much more about this principle in the book– and of course those who teach the STC method emphasize that. I am extremely lucky that the Head Pro at my club is Gary Sowinski– a famous STC teacher and who himself is still nationally competitive. I have heard it "from the horse’s mouth" so to speak. CentriSwing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Centriswing Http://www.XXXXXXXXXXX.com Who’s the dopey looking guy on CentriSwing, green shirt, horrible grip? He’s the guy who endorses Centriswing. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Another professional comment from David. Hey, everyone, rush to take a lesson from this font of wisdom and maturity. Since you asked, that little dude is an employee of our club– and is vying to play on the Nike tour– can drive it over the fence in the back of the club range– and shoots in the 60s from the black tees. He is demonstrating a bad grip.. Duhhhhhh CentriSwing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HI Stig, Well I, nearly every book, Dr. Melvin (inventor of the Whippy), and nearly all very low handicap players disagree. The right hand (assuming you’re right-handed) can cause nothing but big trouble if it bedcomes "active" on the downswing. You will either do OTT or cast, early release. Dr. Melvin says the right hand can ONLY slow the club down, it cannot accelerate the clubhead by exerting leverage. The right hand should ONLY push the left hand–NOT exert direct leverage on the club handle. Just look at any closeup of Fred Couples– and notice that his right hand fingers and thumb are not even touching the club handle at impact–the palm of his right hand is pushing the left hand through. The best way to quickly develop a real golf swing, one that creates divots leading from the ball position and extending toward the target, maybe even a little to the right– is by leading your swing with your left arm–pulling the club through. Most high handicappers don’t want to hear that– because it requires serious work, but there is other way. Well, as a 36 hcp’er I should probably not start a discussion with you which is the best way to do the golf swing. My point was that the observations of the author is confirmed in SLAP. You should be above (outside) the plan on the backswing and under (inside) the plan on the downswing. By "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" on the top of the swing, and by forcing the "right side under" in the downswing. You might be right that an "active" right side in the downswing will cause you troubles. I will not continue to advocate the SLAP method here, because I’m not in a position to do that. I’m not even sure it’s contradictory to what you are saying. -stig
Well, I would be astounded if you can consistently hit the ball using that method. I and my brother did Model Golf, SLAP, even attended their all day school near Las Vegas. But afterward I couldn’t do it consistently nor improve my handicap using that and neither could my brother (6 handicap). He actually got worse, started randomly slicing and pull-hooking. The problem is that consciousness of our dominant hand during the downswing is just poisonous. Ernest Jones (the most popular teach of all time) taught that students should take the club up with hand consciousness and then transfer our feel to the upper arms and chest for the downswing with "dead" hands. He knew that ANY thinking or trying to DO something with hands during the downswing is usually disastrous–and always llets you down when it counts the most. It will result in extreme embarrassment on # 1 tee!!! It is important to realize that NO touring pros say they use or used SLAP as they learned the game. Many, including Hale Irwin say that it is NOT useful for students to break the swing into components. Hale says he didn’t do that and that he doesn’t teach that. He also hates video analysis, thinks it is usually counter-productive. SLAP and all video analysis is classic ‘reverse engineering.’ It seems logical that we should be able to take something apart, study its component parts, and then reassemble it. That concept was born when first film and then video made slow and stop motion analysis possible. An industry was born– a whole cadre of instructors, golf magazines, etc. based their income on making the golf swing complex– and impossible to learn. If you bit, they had you, like Chiropractors, you must keep returning and returning because you will never get a swing like that. However, people didn’t change. Ernest Jones was right, thank goodness a few instructors still teach "swing the clubhead." CentriSwing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig HI Stig, Well I, nearly every book, Dr. Melvin (inventor of the Whippy), and nearly all very low handicap players disagree. The right hand (assuming you’re right-handed) can cause nothing but big trouble if it bedcomes "active" on the downswing. You will either do OTT or cast, early release. Dr. Melvin says the right hand can ONLY slow the club down, it cannot accelerate the clubhead by exerting leverage. The right hand should ONLY push the left hand–NOT exert direct leverage on the club handle. Just look at any closeup of Fred Couples– and notice that his right hand fingers and thumb are not even touching the club handle at impact–the palm of his right hand is pushing the left hand through. The best way to quickly develop a real golf swing, one that creates divots leading from the ball position and extending toward the target, maybe even a little to the right– is by leading your swing with your left arm–pulling the club through. Most high handicappers don’t want to hear that– because it requires serious work, but there is other way. Well, as a 36 hcp’er I should probably not start a discussion with you which is the best way to do the golf swing. My point was that the observations of the author is confirmed in SLAP. You should be above (outside) the plan on the backswing and under (inside) the plan on the downswing. By "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" on the top of the swing, and by forcing the "right side under" in the downswing. You might be right that an "active" right side in the downswing will cause you troubles. I will not continue to advocate the SLAP method here, because I’m not in a position to do that. I’m not even sure it’s contradictory to what you are saying. -stig
Stig, The SLAP reference you were looking for is on p. 176: "Most of the common problems, from loss of power, to the tendency to slice, to shots that are poorly struck, all are related to a weak right side." [...] "In all of our students, from beginners to tour professionals, we have yet to find one who dominates with the left side and is able to successfully play the game". Cheers, Mike
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? Hi Ron, Good stuff and good thoughts. Ensure that you don’t try to leverage the club with your right hand fingers in order to to get it inside on the way down. That doesn’t work consistently. I suggest you slowly take the club back low and outside as you said, ensuring that it is almost totally in control of the last three fingers of your left hand– and close the clubface slightly for at least the first few feet. This ensure your left hand has it–and that your left wrist is flat (not cupped by the right hand taking over). Be sure at one point the club points straight back away from the target and is parallel with the target line. Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–those three fingers–the right hand only pushing the left hand but no right hand finger leverage (that causes early release and casting). It will be on a perfect plane if that hand is in control. You get an in-to-out divot and clubhead path ONLY by controlling the club with your left hand–pulling it through to a big finish. If you are trying to hit or leverage with your right hand, you must flip your wrist open just before impact in order to square the clubface– and you will get that wrong a large percentage of the time. The secret to accuracy is left hand control of the club. Make a good divot and the ball will go toward the target. Centriswing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Who’s the dopey looking guy on CentriSwing, green shirt, horrible grip? Let the buyer beware of this junk.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig HI Stig, Well I, nearly every book, Dr. Melvin (inventor of the Whippy), and nearly all very low handicap players disagree. The right hand (assuming you’re right-handed) can cause nothing but big trouble if it bedcomes "active" on the downswing. You will either do OTT or cast, early release. Dr. Melvin says the right hand can ONLY slow the club down, it cannot accelerate the clubhead by exerting leverage. The right hand should ONLY push the left hand–NOT exert direct leverage on the club handle. Just look at any closeup of Fred Couples– and notice that his right hand fingers and thumb are not even touching the club handle at impact–the palm of his right hand is pushing the left hand through. The best way to quickly develop a real golf swing, one that creates divots leading from the ball position and extending toward the target, maybe even a little to the right– is by leading your swing with your left arm–pulling the club through. Most high handicappers don’t want to hear that– because it requires serious work, but there is other way. Well, as a 36 hcp’er I should probably not start a discussion with you which is the best way to do the golf swing. My point was that the observations of the author is confirmed in SLAP. You should be above (outside) the plan on the backswing and under (inside) the plan on the downswing. By "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" on the top of the swing, and by forcing the "right side under" in the downswing. You might be right that an "active" right side in the downswing will cause you troubles. I will not continue to advocate the SLAP method here, because I’m not in a position to do that. I’m not even sure it’s contradictory to what you are saying. -stig
Also note the distinction between replies relating to a dominant "right side" versus "right hand" above…
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig
HI Stig, Well I, nearly every book, Dr. Melvin (inventor of the Whippy), and nearly all very low handicap players disagree. The right hand (assuming you’re right-handed) can cause nothing but big trouble if it bedcomes "active" on the downswing. You will either do OTT or cast, early release. Dr. Melvin says the right hand can ONLY slow the club down, it cannot accelerate the clubhead by exerting leverage. The right hand should ONLY push the left hand–NOT exert direct leverage on the club handle. Just look at any closeup of Fred Couples– and notice that his right hand fingers and thumb are not even touching the club handle at impact–the palm of his right hand is pushing the left hand through. The best way to quickly develop a real golf swing, one that creates divots leading from the ball position and extending toward the target, maybe even a little to the right– is by leading your swing with your left arm–pulling the club through. Most high handicappers don’t want to hear that– because it requires serious work, but there is other way. CentriSwing. Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
Centriswing Http://www.XXXXXXXXXXX.com Who’s the dopey looking guy on CentriSwing, green shirt, horrible grip?
He’s the guy who endorses Centriswing. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig HI Stig, Well I, nearly every book, Dr. Melvin (inventor of the Whippy), and nearly all very low handicap players disagree. The right hand (assuming you’re right-handed) can cause nothing but big trouble if it bedcomes "active" on the downswing. You will either do OTT or cast, early release. Dr. Melvin says the right hand can ONLY slow the club down, it cannot accelerate the clubhead by exerting leverage. The right hand should ONLY push the left hand–NOT exert direct leverage on the club handle. Just look at any closeup of Fred Couples– and notice that his right hand fingers and thumb are not even touching the club handle at impact–the palm of his right hand is pushing the left hand through. The best way to quickly develop a real golf swing, one that creates divots leading from the ball position and extending toward the target, maybe even a little to the right– is by leading your swing with your left arm–pulling the club through. Most high handicappers don’t want to hear that– because it requires serious work, but there is other way.
Well, as a 36 hcp’er I should probably not start a discussion with you which is the best way to do the golf swing. My point was that the observations of the author is confirmed in SLAP. You should be above (outside) the plan on the backswing and under (inside) the plan on the downswing. By "flatten the shaft" or "drop it under" on the top of the swing, and by forcing the "right side under" in the downswing. You might be right that an "active" right side in the downswing will cause you troubles. I will not continue to advocate the SLAP method here, because I’m not in a position to do that. I’m not even sure it’s contradictory to what you are saying. -stig
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig
There are illusions and details in a golf swing which are different in reality than in appearance. 1) the left shoulder connects to the clubhead thru the left arm. it gets pulled fairly straight during the downswing. It is not anywhere near straight at setup. Some, like Azinger, use "low hands" at setup. Freddie Couples uses a high hand. Neither is right or wrong: they are preferences. 2) Getting to the top is done in different ways – Freddie appears to loop as does Trevino – two of the best swings out there. In the process the HANDS move to the right – not back – as the swing starts and then they go up. The clubSHAFT goes UP to get to the right place. In slim golfers the hands arrive some 4 to 6" above the top of the head. 3) ALL downswings require the hands and the butt end of the club to move down EXACTLY at the target line – if not initially, certainly within a few inches – and the SHAFT and clubhead follow ON THAT SAME LINE (the downswing plane). 4) If the left wrist were a universal joint, the line from left shoulder to ball would be a straight line through the left hand; since the left wrist "can’t bend that far" there will be some bend at that joint at impact as rotation causes the back of the left hand to roll over leftward. 5) On the way to the ball, these points of reference have to be in a line with each other or the swing would be wobbly. That is not possible due to the forces applied – because if they go in the wrong direction, mishits and overthetop happens. The points are left shoulder, left arm, and clubshaft (any picture of a golfer where hands are in the downswing at about waist level will allow you to draw a straight line through the ball, left hand, shaft, and tip of the right shoulder. These points are "on plane" during delivery. 6) They don’t need to be on that plane to get TO the top, although triggering the downswing does require that the loading of the body, hand, and clubshaft BE on plane – and it will be that plane just mentioned. There is a wonderful set of pics in a GOLF mag foldout from a couple years ago of David Toms that shows these things. HTH George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
Reading Ron’s, Centriswing? comments reminded me of golf book that will cure slicing for a very large majority. I could never play well/hit good shots with any cupping of my left wrist. Envy those who can. Title of the book is" 4 Magic Moves to Perfect Golf "( might be a little different!) and will, if you follow instructions, make you appear to be Tom Leman at the top. Basically the moves are: 1. Using the last 3 fingers of the left hand , roll your left wrist so as to cause the back of your left hand to face toward the ball. 2. Turn your shoulders ( your arms will most likely follow the same path as with your normal take away), weight should transfer to right side. 3. Transfer weight to the left by-same method you now use. 4. Turn er loose. ( better learn a little reverse C!) Of course these moves overlap and become one motion back and one motion forward. I have no interest in discussing or defending this method! But, if you can do it, prepare to search in the left rough instead of the right. Have no idea of Ron’s club but would be glad to test one-no charge! Will provide free critique.
Hi Ron, Good stuff and good thoughts. Ensure that you don’t try to leverage the club with your right hand fingers in order to to get it inside on the way down. That doesn’t work consistently. I suggest you slowly take the club back low and outside as you said, ensuring that it is almost totally in control of the last three fingers of your left hand– and close the clubface slightly for at least the first few feet. This ensure your left hand has it–and that your left wrist is flat (not cupped by the right hand taking over). Be sure at one point the club points straight back away from the target and is parallel with the target line. Increcible thought processing Larry—- 1) show me any swing where when the club is straight back from the target line, and not parallel to the the target line. 2) show be any swing where at one point this doesn’t occur. Any swing, by anyone, at any age, even by a first timer. At some point this always happens. Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–those three fingers–the right hand only pushing the left hand but no right hand finger leverage (that causes early release and casting). It will be on a perfect plane if that hand is in control. You get an in-to-out divot and clubhead path ONLY by controlling the club with your left hand–pulling it through to a big finish. If you are trying to hit or leverage with your right hand, you must flip your wrist open just before impact in order to square the clubface– and you will get that wrong a large percentage of the time. The secret to accuracy is left hand control of the club. Make a good divot and the ball will go toward the target. XXXXXXXXXXXXX And were you describing plane, or trying to sell something? Did anything in your respose discuss plane??? Have you sent any threateneing e-mails to anyone lately? You still want that money game? Brad
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…?
SLAP (Swing Like a Pro) will explain to you why the pro’s do this. It also explains why and how you should do the same. From my memory: On the top of the swing you should flatten the shaft. On the downswing the right side/hand should be the active. By forcing the right side lower than the left you will get a sound inside to outside swing path through impact. -stig
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? Hi Ron, Good stuff and good thoughts. Ensure that you don’t try to leverage the club with your right hand fingers in order to to get it inside on the way down. That doesn’t work consistently. I suggest you slowly take the club back low and outside as you said, ensuring that it is almost totally in control of the last three fingers of your left hand– and close the clubface slightly for at least the first few feet. This ensure your left hand has it–and that your left wrist is flat (not cupped by the right hand taking over). Be sure at one point the club points straight back away from the target and is parallel with the target line. Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–those three fingers–the right hand only pushing the left hand but no right hand finger leverage (that causes early release and casting). It will be on a perfect plane if that hand is in control. You get an in-to-out divot and clubhead path ONLY by controlling the club with your left hand–pulling it through to a big finish. If you are trying to hit or leverage with your right hand, you must flip your wrist open just before impact in order to square the clubface– and you will get that wrong a large percentage of the time. The secret to accuracy is left hand control of the club. Make a good divot and the ball will go toward the target. Centriswing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
You’re as bad as GH. Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–
What rubbish! Ron, steer clear of this product.
Response:
I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Golfers are meant to suffer." - Ian MacCallister
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…?
Hi Ron, Good stuff and good thoughts. Ensure that you don’t try to leverage the club with your right hand fingers in order to to get it inside on the way down. That doesn’t work consistently. I suggest you slowly take the club back low and outside as you said, ensuring that it is almost totally in control of the last three fingers of your left hand– and close the clubface slightly for at least the first few feet. This ensure your left hand has it–and that your left wrist is flat (not cupped by the right hand taking over). Be sure at one point the club points straight back away from the target and is parallel with the target line. Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–those three fingers–the right hand only pushing the left hand but no right hand finger leverage (that causes early release and casting). It will be on a perfect plane if that hand is in control. You get an in-to-out divot and clubhead path ONLY by controlling the club with your left hand–pulling it through to a big finish. If you are trying to hit or leverage with your right hand, you must flip your wrist open just before impact in order to square the clubface– and you will get that wrong a large percentage of the time. The secret to accuracy is left hand control of the club. Make a good divot and the ball will go toward the target. Centriswing Http://www.CentriSwing.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve noticed that most of the swings on tour seem to be either above the plane or on a steeper plane on the backswing, and then correct to a flatter plane (actually, on-plane) on the downswing. Jack’s swing, when he was strong, was the same. Garcia’s and Furyk’s swings are at the extreme end of the spectrum here, but even silky swingers like Stewart and Couples appear to do this on video. That said, it seems like one big problem (certainly not the only big problem) with amateur swings is just the opposite; too flat going back, and then OTT producing either a slice or hook depending on other factors. Just wondering what some of the prevailing thought is on this. I’ve had the idea recently to practice at the range with the singular thought of purposely swinging the club (a) outside the plane and/or (b) on a steeper plane, and see if the ‘on-plane correction’ is something that more or less just happens on the downswing, assuming that the basic mechanics of the swing are fairly sound. What do you think…? — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Golfers are meant to suffer." - Ian MacCallister
The biggest fault most players have is "over the top" or leading the downswing with the right shoulder (for RH players.) The likelihood is increased when the player takes the club away on an inside path. The easiest preventative move is to emphasize a straight back takeaway. This feels and occasionally looks outside, and can be exaggerated into a Freddie or even a Furyk-type move that looks steep at the start, but on-plance through the downswing. — Doug Main
Response:
Hi Ron, Good stuff and good thoughts. Ensure that you don’t try to leverage the club with your right hand fingers in order to to get it inside on the way down. That doesn’t work consistently. I suggest you slowly take the club back low and outside as you said, ensuring that it is almost totally in control of the last three fingers of your left hand– and close the clubface slightly for at least the first few feet. This ensure your left hand has it–and that your left wrist is flat (not cupped by the right hand taking over). Be sure at one point the club points straight back away from the target and is parallel with the target line.
Increcible thought processing Larry—- 1) show me any swing where when the club is straight back from the target line, and not parallel to the the target line. 2) show be any swing where at one point this doesn’t occur. Any swing, by anyone, at any age, even by a first timer. At some point this always happens. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then finish the backswing ans start down by pulling the club down and through with mostly your left hand–those three fingers–the right hand only pushing the left hand but no right hand finger leverage (that causes early release and casting). It will be on a perfect plane if that hand is in control. You get an in-to-out divot and clubhead path ONLY by controlling the club with your left hand–pulling it through to a big finish. If you are trying to hit or leverage with your right hand, you must flip your wrist open just before impact in order to square the clubface– and you will get that wrong a large percentage of the time. The secret to accuracy is left hand control of the club. Make a good divot and the ball will go toward the target. XXXXXXXXXXXXX
And were you describing plane, or trying to sell something? Did anything in your respose discuss plane??? Have you sent any threateneing e-mails to anyone lately? You still want that money game? Brad