Question:
Democrat or republican, liberal or conservative. . . does anyone here really believe the nonsense now thrust upon GA by politicians pandering to irrational fears of the public that is fostered by the media morons, would be any better with someone else in the Whitehouse? — Chris W Bring Back the HP 15C http://hp15c.org Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. http://thewishzone.com
Response:
Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice. A better description is a "mockumentary". Moore’s film is so full of falsehoods, it’s funny. Like what, f’rinstance?
Like the bit about Afghan pipelines, f’rinstance. There aren’t any. The rest of the movie is just about as accurate as that. It is about as much a documentary as "JFK" or "The Day After Tomorrow" were. Disney’s cartoon "Pocahontas" was probably more historically accurate, even though that film had the main character’s age, appearance, political opinions, and love interests wrong. "Fahrenheit 9/11" makes "The Core" look like a respected text on physics by comparison.
Response:
Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice. A better description is a "mockumentary". Moore’s film is so full of falsehoods, it’s funny. Like what, f’rinstance?
I thought you might like a more complete list: The footage of Gore celebrating his victory is actually footage from a party early on election day. Contrary to the film, Fox News projected a Gore victory in Florida. The movie implies that Fox was alone in projecting a Bush victory. All the network projections were made before the polls had closed in Florida. The movie says that Gore would have won with any recount in Florida. In fact, under most recounts, Bush’s lead widened. The only way Gore could win is if the military vote was allowed to be disenfranchised and only a few heavily Democratic counties were recounted. The suggestion that felons are not allowed to vote because of their race is ridiculous. Bush in fact was able to pass a large amount of his agenda before 9/11, such as the tax cut. His Presidency was not stalled as the movie implies. The main thing that was stalled was the confirmation of judges due to Democratic filibustering, which was beginning to anger the public against Democrats. Most of the so-called "vacation time" was actually meetings with foreign leaders at Camp David. Although Moore presents the terror attacks very dramatically, he himself said at the time that he though they were no big deal. Moore criticizes the President for continuing to read to school children. What was he supposed to do? There were no facts indicating a terrorist attack until the second plane. He was on TV. Was he supposed to jump from his chair and run from the room screaming in panic? Contrary to Moore’s statement, the President read the security briefing of September 6, 2001. What has been revealed of the briefing is extremely vague and gives no hint of any action that could have been taken to prevent the attacks. The Saudis in fact did leave the country on September 13, the same day that everyone else was allowed to fly. Moore himself wanted to fly on September 14, but was persuaded not to by his wife and daughter. Nevertheless he claims that no one except terrorists wanted to fly that week. Is he calling himself a terrorist? The reason James Bath’s name and medical records were blacked out on Bush’s National Guard records was because of Federal privacy laws, not an evil Bush conspiracy. Prince Bandar is a long-time contact with the US Government. He is a good friend of Bill Clinton as well as Bush. Bush’s sale of the Harken stock was approved by the company’s lawyers and no one but Moore has suggested any impropriety with the sale. Claiming that Bush is tied to bin Laden because he knows someone who worked for someone who contracted with someone else that was related to another company that was run by someone who worked for bin Laden’s estranged father is a little ridiculous, to say the least. Al Gore probably has closer ties than that. The extent of claimed Saudi investment in the United States is completely unsupported by the facts. Bush quotes about terrorism in Israel are edited to remove references to Israel. The Bush-Saudi conspiracy theory is completely unsupported by any verifiable facts. The Unocal pipeline in Afghanistan does not exist and could hardly be the object of a Bush-Taliban conspiracy. The Bush "welcome" of Hashemi was limited to a statement by Richard Boucher, who said "we don’t recognize the existence of any government in Afghanistan." Some welcome. After spending most of the movie trying to link Bush and bin Laden in a conspiracy to commit terrorism, Moore suddenly changes tack and suggests that bin Laden is innocent. Moore does not, however, show that any of the evidence against bin Laden is wrong, including bin Laden’s own taped admission that he was responsible for the terrorist attack. Moore questions the censoring of 28 pages of the 9/11 investigation. Good for him. Even Moore cannot bat 0. Nevertheless, the censorship is probably due to genuine security concerns rather than to cover up a fictitious conspiracy. Voters knew they were voting for Carnahan’s wife in Missouri, not a dead man. However, given Moore’s demonstrated level of intelligence, he himself might not have been able to figure that one out. Bush increase funding for anti-terrorism at the FBI. The movie claims he cut it. Goss does indeed have a toll free number. The movie claims he does not. Moore apparently does not realize that Oregon manages and pays for its state troopers, not the federal government. Numerous Palestinian bombers were funded by Saddam Hussein; even Moore does not dispute that. Americans have been murdered by these bombers. Moore makes the ridiculous claim that Hussein is not responsible for that. Saddam Hussein made numerous threats to attack American targets. Moore says he did not. Condoleezza Rice’s statement about an Iraq/al Qaeda link is taken out of context. In fact, she said that Iraq promotes hatred of the United States and funds terrorists, both of which facts were well known. The scenes of pre-invasion Iraq filled with happy, smiling children are dismissive of Hussein’s genocide, use of weapons of mass destruction against his own people, and brutal reign of terror. Moore seems to think that we never kill anyone but women and children. That is just plain insulting. Moore leaves Spain, Italy, Poland, and England out of the "coalition of the willing," implying that only tiny, inconsequential countries were part of the coalition. Moore conveniently ignores the softball coverage that Rather and Jennings ran of Iraq before the war. He also ignores that these anchors have consistently criticized the war. Moore’s scene of prisoner abuse contains no prisoners. Moore talks about Bush closing underutilized Veteran’s hospitals, without mentioning Bush sponsored increases in pay and benefits for the military and opening of new Veteran’s hospitals. Moore criticizes Congress members for not wanting to sacrifice their children in Iraq. Give me a break. No soldier or his family wants him to die. Moore is not from Flint, Michigan as he claims in the movie. Flint’s unemployment rate has not been as high as 17% since 1993. Persons whose unemployment insurance runs out are still counted as unemployed. Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged with treason is that he is a Congressman. Moore has been contacted by several terrorist organizations and fronts offering to support and promote the film in any way they can.
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Like what, f’rinstance? www.Rosspilot.com WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the film. Hmm. Could you clear something up for me, please? Did you actually *see* this movie?
If you’re asking me, the answer is yes. www.Rosspilot.com
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Democrat or republican, liberal or conservative. . . does anyone here really believe the nonsense now thrust upon GA by politicians pandering to irrational fears of the public that is fostered by the media morons, would be any better with someone else in the Whitehouse?
I certainly don’t, but I *have* noticed that the most recent proposed restrictions (like the proposed amendment that would force the FAA to prohibit flight over nuclear power plants if the HSA increases the alert level) come from Democrats. In fact, that one came from Kerry’s home turf (though not from Kerry). George Patterson In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault. In Tennessee, it’s evangelism.
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One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush’s interviews in which he’s promising to fight terrorists (I believe they said it was on a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction to 9/11, which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his ilk. The statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as intention to pursue an invasion of Iraq.
The clip you reference above depicts a smug world leader who feigns concern for world affairs while obviously being considerably more interested in his golf swing. You really should see the movie before you comment on it.
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Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged with treason is that he is a Congressman. Visiting CJ’s world is a fascinating escapist diversion.
As opposed to Gary Drescher’s world where the real reason for the terrorist attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a pretext for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get the contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have been an easier way to make money, but whatever. Gary’s world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the World Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack. Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black?
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush’s interviews in which he’s promising to fight terrorists (I believe they said it was on a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction to 9/11, which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his ilk. The statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as intention to pursue an invasion of Iraq. The clip you reference above depicts a smug world leader who feigns concern for world affairs while obviously being considerably more interested in his golf swing.
Now, since you can’t support your conspiracy theory, you simply revert to ad hominem attacks against George Bush. Granted, ad hominem attacks can be hysterically funny, but I suspect you take yourself far too seriously to realize that. Anyway, here is tit for tat: 2004 Democratic National Convention Official Program 6:00pm- Opening flag burning ceremony. 6:05pm- Pledge of Allegiance to the United Nations 6:10pm- Secular words by Revs. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton 6:30pm- Anti-war concert by Barbra Streisand. 6:45pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 7:00pm- Tribute theme to France. 7:10pm- Collect offerings for al-Zawahri defense fund. 7:30pm- Tribute theme toGermany. 7:45pm- Anti-war rally moderated by Michael Moore. 8:25pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 8:30pm- Terrorist appeasement workshop. 9:00pm- Homosexual marriage ceremony for male and female couples. 9:30pm- CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN urge defeat of President Bush. 10:00pm- Posting the Iraqi Colors by Sean Penn and Tim Robbins 10:10pm- Reenactment of Kerry’s fake medal toss. 10:20pm- Cameo by Dean ‘Yeeearrrrrrrg!’ 10:30pm- Abortion demonstration by N.A.R.A.L. 10:40pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 10:50pm- Special thanks to the New York Times and the Washington Post 11:00pm- Multiple homosexual marriage ceremony for threesomes and groups. 11:15pm- Maximizing Welfare workshop. 11:30pm- Saddam Legal Defense Fund pep rally. 11:50pm- Ted Kennedy proposes a toast. 12:00am – Nomination of Democratic candidate. NEW: 5:00am – Ted Kennedy Will Conduct a Driver Safety, Swimming and Water
safety Class
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged with treason is that he is a Congressman. Visiting CJ’s world is a fascinating escapist diversion. As opposed to Gary Drescher’s world where the real reason for the terrorist attacks on the US and the subsequent invasion of Iraq was an enormous Arab-Bush-al Qaeda conspiracy to destroy the World Trade Center as a pretext for seizing control of a non-existent pipeline so that Cheney could get the contract for his old friends at Halliburton. Seems like there might have been an easier way to make money, but whatever. Gary’s world has Bush conspiring with Osama bin Laden to destroy the World Trade Center but alleges that bin Laden knew nothing about the attack. Well, Mr. Pot, still wanting to call the kettle black.
What you describe as my world is indeed every bit as outlandish as your world. The problem with your comparison, though, is that what I refer to as "your world" consists of things you actually say (e.g. that Rep. McDermott committed treason), whereas the views you attribute to me resemble nothing I’ve ever said. But that’s the salient characteristic of your world: no grounding in reality is required for attributing bizarre beliefs and attitudes to your opponents. –Gary
Response:
Now, since you can’t support your conspiracy theory,
Chris, please provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message thread in which you read a statement from me proclaiming a "conspiracy theory." You’re inference of my statements belongs to you; please don’t attribute it to me. you simply revert to ad hominem attacks against George Bush.
Please also provide the Message-ID of the article in THIS message thread in which you inferred my statements to be "ad hominem attacks against George Bush." Please also respond to my clarification of your misstatement about Mr. Moore’s movie containing a falsehood regarding the existence of a
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Like what, f’rinstance? www.Rosspilot.com WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the film.
Hmm. Could you clear something up for me, please? Did you actually *see* this movie? Regards, Neil
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George Patterson In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault. In Tennessee, it’s evangelism.
That’s the beauty of having States’ Rights. Regards, Neil
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Like what, f’rinstance? www.Rosspilot.com
WNYC carried an interview with another filmmaker who discussed the film. One of the biggest problems with Moore’s work is his deliberate slanting of things by presenting them out of context. The interviewee compared it to the butcher jobs that CBS became famous for in the 70s. One glaring example given was the excerpt from one of Bush’s interviews in which he’s promising to fight terrorists (I believe they said it was on a golf course). In the movie, this is presented as happening in reaction to 9/11, which makes the audience think Bush is referring to Bin Laden and his ilk. The statement about "pursuing them wherever they may hide" is presented as intention to pursue an invasion of Iraq. In reality, the speech was given months before 9/11 and the topic of discussion was the suicide bombers in Irael. Whatever it is, it is *not* a documentary. George Patterson In Idaho, tossing a rattlesnake into a crowded room is felony assault. In Tennessee, it’s evangelism.
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Jim Herring opined Great idea. Kerry and Edwards should be the first to do it.
Both Bush and Kerry are pilots. Maybe they can go together. -ash Cthulhu for President! Why vote for a lesser evil?
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Moore does get interviews with rabid Bush-hater Tom Daschle and Saddam sympathizer Jim McDermott. The only reason McDermott has not been charged with treason is that he is a Congressman.
Visiting CJ’s world is a fascinating escapist diversion. As usual, CJ cites no sources for any of his claims, so let’s just look briefly at his most outlandish assertion. The right-wing fabrication concerning McDermott’s "sympathy" for Saddam Hussein was exposed in an earlier thread here that CJ participated in. Here’s a quick recap. (Unlike CJ, I provide actual quotes and sources.) In an interview two years ago, George Stephanopoulos asked McDermott what the Iraqi officials had told him about inspectors’ access to the suspect sites. McDermott replied (emphasis added), "They said they would allow us to go and look anywhere we wanted, AND UNTIL THEY DON’T DO THAT, there is no need to do this coercive stuff where you bring in helicopters and armed people and storm buildings. I think you have to take the Iraqis on their face value." (ABC News, 29 September 2002) So McDermott said we should TEST Iraq’s pledge to allow unfettered inspections, by taking the pledge at "face value" only in the sense of proceeding with the inspections until and unless the pledge is violated. Subsequently, right-wing commentators dishonestly quoted the face-value sentence without any of the preceding context, making it sound as though McDermott had simply proclaimed that whatever the Iraqis say should be trusted without question! This distortion then further morphed into McDermott’s "sympathy" for Saddam (whom McDermott, in reality, condemns). But that’s still not rabid enough for CJ, who now tells us that McDermott’s conduct is treasonous. CJ thinks we live in a country where disagreeing with the president about weapons-inspection policy constitutes treason! And if CJ had his way, this would indeed be such a country. –Gary
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Moore’s film is so full of falsehoods, it’s funny. Like what, f’rinstance? Like the bit about Afghan pipelines, f’rinstance. There aren’t any.
Of course, you are correct about the pipeline’s not yet being constructed. Moore’s film puts forth the notion, that upon being made the new leader of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, a former advisor to the Unocal oil company, approved the construction of a natural gas pipeline through Afghanistan. It also mentions, that VP Cheney stands to gain from Halliburton’s contracts to construct the pipeline <http://corpwatch.radicaldesigns.org/article.php?id=6008 <http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/tncs/2002/cheneyafghan.htm, and the Bush family ties to the Carlisle Group pose a conflict of interest <http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html. There’s an interesting account here: http://www.thedubyareport.com/oilwar.html I don’t recall seeing where Moore implied that the pipeline had already been constructed, so I don’t consider that a to be a falsehood.
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Ernie Fletcher nearly got himself shot down when he penetrated the DC ADIZ with a busted transponder. Can you imagine what would have resulted from such an event? It could well have been the end of the Bush administration. So, I have a modest (ahem) proposal. Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that it will fall almost immediately! Each of you take your plane and ‘accidentally’ fly it into the ADIZ. Not all at once; it has to look random. Be sure to take your families with you. Then, when you get shot down, the Bush administration will get a black eye from ‘killing innocent women and children.’ The Kerry campaign will have a field day criticizing ‘the reckless behavior of the Bush administration.’ There will be Congressional investigations, independent prosecutors, maybe even impeachment proceedings. The fact that all the people killed are Democrats will make it look like some kind of evil Republican conspiracy. It might even mean the end of the Republican Party as we know it. I know that many of you have said that you would do anything to get rid of Bush, so here is your chance. After all, what are the lives of a few Democrats compared with ousting the rascals from office? Al-Qaeda have repeatedly demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice their lives simply to get Bush out of office. Can you do less than a bunch of foreigners? I say go for it. The more of you Democrats that go and get yourselves killed, the better off this country is going to be. — Christopher J. Campbell World Famous Flight Instructor Port Orchard, WA If you go around beating the Bush, don’t complain if you rile the animals.
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Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that it will fall almost immediately!
Interesting satire, CJ. Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
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Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
A better description is a "mockumentary". Moore’s film is so full of falsehoods, it’s funny.
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Al-Qaeda have repeatedly demonstrated that they are willing to sacrifice their lives simply to get Bush out of office.
Al-Qaeda would be appalled if Bush lost the election: they need him. — Dan C172RG at BFM
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Democrats! Here is your chance to so embarrass the Bush administration that it will fall almost immediately!
I don’t think the Bush administration needs anymore help in embarassing itself.
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Great idea. Kerry and Edwards should be the first to do it. — Jim carry on
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Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice. A better description is a "mockumentary". Moore’s film is so full of falsehoods, it’s funny.
Like what, f’rinstance? www.Rosspilot.com
Response:
Fortunately, nothing more needs to be done to get baby Bush out of office than wait for the Presidential election in November. Michael Moor’s latest hit cinematic documentary provides all the information necessary for any thinking American to make the right choice.
Even more-better satire! I love it! — Jim Fisher