Question:
It’s been only 2 months post-RP and I’ve been lucky I haven’t had to wear any pads. I don’t know if I can help. But I’ve always been very active by running and lifting weights. You are correct.. in thinking of trying to hold it as long as you can while at home. That is something I did once I lost the Foley. Doing the on off on off method while going is ok. But I found just trying to keep myself from going at all while at home seem to make the muscle stronger. Also at times while sitting or in bed I would try to hold that group of muscles in as long as I could then let it out…rest then do it again. Walking is very good…I would also try and focus on holding that group of muscles while walking. If you have a hard time with walking I would start off by not drinking much at first while working on these muscles. But make sure you have rest days. You don’t need or want to do this everyday.
Response:
Tom, Walking around the car show is not a very good indicator of the good walking will do for you. If you are now able to walk city blocks and retain your urine and you were not able to do so before, then that is improvement. But, not only is it improvement, it is an indicator as to what you might want to consider as being best for you to elminate the problem. Walking is good, I believe, because of what you’ve just said. You can go out, think about holding your urine, and walk. The more often you do it, the longer you can walk and the more urine you can hold. After several months, I could almost always hold my urine, no matter what I was doing, as long as I was thinking about it. Lift a couch — pee my pants. Think about holding it while lifting a couch — no pee. Same with a golf swing. I now think, ball position — left arm — back swing — hold urin — swing through — follow through — did I pee? I think the best thing you can do is drink lots of water and walk longer and longer distances while consentrating on you kegel. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA .07 .05 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m 10 months post-RP, and also still incontinent. But I can identify measurable improvements of a qualitative nature from month to month. Quantitatively, the past five months or so have been 2 ultra pads or Depend undies a day, unless I did a lot of walking that day, in which case the sky is the limit. I guess when I go three months and haven’t seen improvement I’ll knock on Dr. Sling’s door. My latest qualitative improvement is being able to walk several city blocks and retain enough urine to have a satisfying pee at the other end – Wow, that was something after a seemingly constant walk-and-drip scenario for the entire 10 months previous. But if I do any more walking than that forget it, it defaults to "Depend" (i.e., drops from the bladder Willy-Nilly). I’ve never found walking to be helpful, but more likely the opposite effect for me – I remember it took me several weeks to recover from walking around the auto show last winter for several hours (i.e., to get back to the control I had previous to the aforementioned trek). I do Kegels off and on, I think they help somewhat but can be overdone. I do like the fact that when I am around the house, etc., and generally emptying most of the yellow liquid into the toilet, that the voiding feels better than pre-RP due to a somewhat enlarged prostate (BPH) that restricted the normal flow (like we used to experience in our respective heydays). It occurred to me a few days ago that perhaps I should deliberately not void as much when around the house (where it is so convenient to do so) so that the natural muscle actions can get stronger, even though it will cause some more dripping in the shorts. I would love it if someone read this and said, yes, that’s exactly what I experienced, and you’re right around the corner from continence, or anything else that reflects the true nature of the beast.
Response:
Al, I just hoped it would help someone. He tried walking alot in the beginning, but that didn’t seem to matter. The only "leakage" he has is stress incontinence, such as sneezing without warning! (Basically the some condition I’m in at 46 after three kids!) Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Linda, I never thought about it that way before, since I’m mostly continent, but for my own curiosity, I’m gonna try that and see what effect it’ll have on me. May help with leaking, thanks! Al
Response:
Just a suggestion from my hubby on this topic…He is a huge water drinker normally. After his surgery, and the catheter removal, he drank less water hoping it would help the incontinence. However, he has noticed the exact opposite effect. He has gone back to his voluminous water drinking, , and his incontinence is basically gone. He does notice that days that he drinks very little, the "leaking" is worse. So I think there is something to allowing the bladder to work and hold more. Hope this helps, Linda
Response:
*Just a suggestion from my hubby on this topic…He is a huge water drinker *normally. After his surgery, and the catheter removal, he drank less water *hoping it would help the incontinence. However, he has noticed the exact *opposite effect. He has gone back to his voluminous water drinking, , and his *incontinence is basically gone. He does notice that days that he drinks very *little, the "leaking" is worse. So I think there is something to allowing the *bladder to work and hold more. * *Hope this helps, *Linda Linda, I never thought about it that way before, since I’m mostly continent, but for my own curiosity, I’m gonna try that and see what effect it’ll have on me. May help with leaking, thanks! Al Please be quiet if replying via email, flames will be deleted promptly. I won’t even read the whole message…
Response:
Congratulations! Two in a row! — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA .07 .05 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just had my 1 year visit today. PSA was <0.04! I had been thinking about not using the head as often – I had always subscribed to a philosophy I had seen written here: "Never pass up a urinal!" After your 1st post, I started trying the same thing. I also have seen dramatic improvement in less than a week. I asked the doc about this, and his opinion is it is just doing more kegels, so it makes sense. There is a greater risk of stress incontinence short term, but it might help – in your case and mine it seems to have.
Response:
Just had my 1 year visit today. PSA was <0.04! I had been thinking about not using the head as often – I had always subscribed to a philosophy I had seen written here: "Never pass up a urinal!" After your 1st post, I started trying the same thing. I also have seen dramatic improvement in less than a week. I asked the doc about this, and his opinion is it is just doing more kegels, so it makes sense. There is a greater risk of stress incontinence short term, but it might help – in your case and mine it seems to have.
Response:
My idea of forcing myself to pee less while at home, begun a week ago, seems to have had a dramatic effect – haven’t had this quick of progress since the RP. Last night I really held it in as long as I possible could (sitting around the house), then after the "ultimate pee" it felt really good (and strong). The this morning I needed "to go", but instead of doing so walked three blocks to the gym, and peed there, could not believe how much I was able to retain while walking, and how much I voided. So I think this is definitely one aspect of gaining continence that I overlooked for a long time, and now that I am finally doing it, it is paying off big time. Looks like my summer trip in late July, walking the beaches of Long Island, etc. will be Hunky Dory. God bless you all. Tom.
Response:
This did it. The next day my sphincter went into a default "lock down" mode, and I don’t have to think about it any more in order to control the bladder. Only a very little dribbling each day now, after having no control standing and walking a week ago. I wish I had thought of deliberately "holding" around the house several months ago, I guess I figured that the over-night "holding" during sleep was enough. I must have had the PFM’s strong except for some minor muscles that were only stimulated by the deliberate "holding". I guess this is similar to the "pee-hold-pee" routine some do. Has Dr. Walsh or anyone else spoken of the importance of trying to "hold" it as long as possible, before finally urinating, in order to make the muscles stronger for when you need it the most (i.e., standing and walking)?
Response:
I just had my 1 year anniversary on 5/21. I’m still incontinent. I was down to 2 pads/day (1 day, 1 night) at 9 months, and that is where I am now. Would sound like I have had no improvement in the last 3 months, except that when I am active, I no longer blow out a pad like I did 3 months ago. So even though I am running out of time for a natural resolution, I am still progressing (slowly), and still hold out hope. I also had done a lot of kegels early on, and then quit, somewhat out of frustration. But I am now quite active on that front again.
Response:
Tom: I am in my 11th month post op and still wear Depends Guards. Usually 2 per day, except weekends when I am more active, working in the garden, etc. My uro put me on several med’s that were supposed to help the incontinence, and none helped. The Ditropan dried me up in the mouth but caused difficulty swallowing, the Oxytrol patch kept coming off in the shower, and the Detrol LA did not help. I am waiting for the office to get back to me with a new prescription to try. He said it was in the family of drugs that includes Prozac, and the uro’s use it for incontinence. I will report if that works if I get hold of a prescription one of these days. On the Kegels, I did them until I returned to work and then just plain got busy and never thought to do them. In the beginning I was going through 4-5 pads per day, and it was month 7 when things started to get better. By the way, I drink a lot of coffee, but do try to stick to decaf. According to Walsh we have another six plus months to hope for improvement. The good book says that at a year and half that is as good as it will get. So, think positive, and I would recommend moderate exercise. It is as good for the soul as the body IMO. Good luck to you (us). Thank you. David S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m 10 months post-RP, and also still incontinent. But I can identify measurable improvements of a qualitative nature from month to month. Quantitatively, the past five months or so have been 2 ultra pads or Depend undies a day, unless I did a lot of walking that day, in which case the sky is the limit. I guess when I go three months and haven’t seen improvement I’ll knock on Dr. Sling’s door. My latest qualitative improvement is being able to walk several city blocks and retain enough urine to have a satisfying pee at the other end – Wow, that was something after a seemingly constant walk-and-drip scenario for the entire 10 months previous. But if I do any more walking than that forget it, it defaults to "Depend" (i.e., drops from the bladder Willy-Nilly). I’ve never found walking to be helpful, but more likely the opposite effect for me – I remember it took me several weeks to recover from walking around the auto show last winter for several hours (i.e., to get back to the control I had previous to the aforementioned trek). I do Kegels off and on, I think they help somewhat but can be overdone. I do like the fact that when I am around the house, etc., and generally emptying most of the yellow liquid into the toilet, that the voiding feels better than pre-RP due to a somewhat enlarged prostate (BPH) that restricted the normal flow (like we used to experience in our respective heydays). It occurred to me a few days ago that perhaps I should deliberately not void as much when around the house (where it is so convenient to do so) so that the natural muscle actions can get stronger, even though it will cause some more dripping in the shorts. I would love it if someone read this and said, yes, that’s exactly what I experienced, and you’re right around the corner from continence, or anything else that reflects the true nature of the beast.
Response:
I’m 10 months post-RP, and also still incontinent. But I can identify measurable improvements of a qualitative nature from month to month. Quantitatively, the past five months or so have been 2 ultra pads or Depend undies a day, unless I did a lot of walking that day, in which case the sky is the limit. I guess when I go three months and haven’t seen improvement I’ll knock on Dr. Sling’s door. My latest qualitative improvement is being able to walk several city blocks and retain enough urine to have a satisfying pee at the other end – Wow, that was something after a seemingly constant walk-and-drip scenario for the entire 10 months previous. But if I do any more walking than that forget it, it defaults to "Depend" (i.e., drops from the bladder Willy-Nilly). I’ve never found walking to be helpful, but more likely the opposite effect for me – I remember it took me several weeks to recover from walking around the auto show last winter for several hours (i.e., to get back to the control I had previous to the aforementioned trek). I do Kegels off and on, I think they help somewhat but can be overdone. I do like the fact that when I am around the house, etc., and generally emptying most of the yellow liquid into the toilet, that the voiding feels better than pre-RP due to a somewhat enlarged prostate (BPH) that restricted the normal flow (like we used to experience in our respective heydays). It occurred to me a few days ago that perhaps I should deliberately not void as much when around the house (where it is so convenient to do so) so that the natural muscle actions can get stronger, even though it will cause some more dripping in the shorts. I would love it if someone read this and said, yes, that’s exactly what I experienced, and you’re right around the corner from continence, or anything else that reflects the true nature of the beast.
Response:
I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry.
I think this is called urgency incontinence. It sometimes happens to me, but it also happened to me on occasion before my RP. I’m not sure if it is any worse now. Perhaps with aging the bladder gets more irritable, and anxiety may also play a role. My solution is to be sure I don’t have to hold it in for any extended period of time. When I know I will be out for many hours without access to a bathroom and nature may call, I wear a pad. I also avoid drinking a lot of fluid an hour or so before I leave. Usually I don’t need the pad, but every once in a while it saves me from wetting my pants. I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. I see him in 3 months maybe I will.
Don’t be embarassed about it. Remember it is all just plumbing, and there is nothing to be ashamed about. Millions of older people have problems of this kind. Your doctor may prescribe one of those drugs to reduce the need to urinate frequently or he may just suggest some ways to manage the problem. I know, from reading, that this is not normal.
Depending on how often it happens, it sounds fairly normal to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is asking my doctor the only thing I can do? gn
Response:
I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry. I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. I see him in 3 months maybe I will.
I’m reminded of the line from "Lady Chatterly’s Lover" describing how Lady C. felt in the morning after she finally gave in to her passions and bedded the gamekeeper. It went something like this: "She had thought she would die of shame, but it was the shame that died!" After all the rigmarole of an RRP, starting with a biopsy administered with the assistance of that lovely young nurse, down to the final tug on Mr. Foley, my shame has pretty well died! C’mon Gary–you can do it! And don’t wait that 3 months to see your doctor. –John W. Wells
Response:
Gary: I second what Curtis says. You need to talk to your doctor. As you can see there are alternatives available to you. If you are uncomfortable talking to your doctor you may want to consider getting a different physician. Being able to openly communicate is very important in that relationship. And the communication has to work both ways. Good luck to you. Thank you. David S.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi gary – i would say that’s long enough to wait to be dry. i know of two methods that seems to help. one is collagen. it is injected at the bladder valve site and makes for a tighter seal. two, is a male sling. from the ones who had it done say they are happy with them. i operation is not very long and it isn’t a complicated surgery and recovery is fairly short. hope this helps. ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
Response:
I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry. I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. I see him in 3 months maybe I will. I know, from reading, that this is not normal. Is asking my doctor the only thing I can do? gn
Gary, Having cancer gave me a whole new idea about what it’s okay to talk about. After worrying about all this stuff for a while, I came to the realization that talking about continence, sex, hemmorhoids, or whatever, need not be any harder or more embarrassing than talking about plumbing, short circuits, or sewer repairs. When you think about it, that’s really what you are talking about. It’s just that the general context is your body instead of your house. Your doctor certainly sees it that way. It actually makes it much easier for him if you do too. You’ve taken a big step in talking to the readers of this group. Have no fear about taking one more little step and talking frankly to your doctor. He’ll be just as understanding as we are and be in a better position to help. Once you’ve broken the ice and started talking to him, you’ll find it’s perfectly natural and quite easy to do. Alan
Response:
You can drink lots of water and walk lots of miles, but if that doesnt’ work, you’re going to have to ask. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA .07 .05 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry. I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. I see him in 3 months maybe I will. I know, from reading, that this is not normal. Is asking my doctor the only thing I can do? gn
Response:
hi gary – i would say that’s long enough to wait to be dry. i know of two methods that seems to help. one is collagen. it is injected at the bladder valve site and makes for a tighter seal. two, is a male sling. from the ones who had it done say they are happy with them. i operation is not very long and it isn’t a complicated surgery and recovery is fairly short. hope this helps. ~ curtis knowledge is power – growing old is mandatory – growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
Response:
I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry. I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. I see him in 3 months maybe I will. I know, from reading, that this is not normal. Is asking my doctor the only thing I can do? gn
Response:
*I had my RRP in March 2002. I still have an incontinence problem. When I *have to go really bad I start involutarily going. Heavily. It stops after *a few seconds and I am able to hold it until I get to a bathroom.. I have *had to switch from pads to briefs to keep me dry. * *I’m actually too embarrassed to mention it to my doctor. I know I should. *I see him in 3 months maybe I will. * *I know, from reading, that this is not normal. * *Is asking my doctor the only thing I can do? IMO, that’s a very good start. BTW, how aggressive were you in doing exercises after your operation? I thought I was missing something while doing mine, but didn’t realize that it took time (just call me mr. impatient) and consistency. Otherwise, not sure if it’s the -only- thing you can do, since I was fortunate to have mine under control relatively soon. Al Please be quiet if replying via email, flames will be deleted promptly. I won’t even read the whole message…