Question:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. The principle behind it is very simple, by dropping the hands you avoid all centripetal force that’s responsible for releasing the club.
My mistake, that should be centrifugal force, not centripetal force. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Response:
Stuart, for the record I do/did not recommend ‘pulling the rope’ nor do/did I recommend letting the hands ‘drop’ to waist high. I do/did recommend that the hands and arms be pulled down and around as a result of the motion of the body. This is also what is referred to as the "pulling on the rope" move (imagine instead of a club, you are holding a rope hanging from above – you want to pull down on the rope, as if ringing a bell tower). It is also similar to what Scott Burr wrote in the "How to really cure your slive forever…" It works!
Scottb
Response:
virtually every pro for that matter, initiates the downswing with a weight shift
I’ve had to go through a lot of pain to relearn this truth about the swing. And my problems developed out of a very minor swing change, trying to remain tighter over the ball. Of course without realizing it, this restricted my natural weight shift … and then the fun began. D.E.
Response:
virtually every pro for that matter, initiates the downswing with a weight shift 2 cents: Yes, Scottrburr, and in addition to that a close exam of many
swings (Couples, for example) shows the arms and club STILL GOING BACK as that weight shift is under way.!!!! It is inferior if your weight shift drops your arms very low before rotary action can act at all, because it is in effect a "half swing" — nothing that happens before the weight shift has any real value for power. Someone with a swing back where hands stop at right pocket and never shifts weight from the left side has virtually the same power as that inferior procedure. But this does NOT mean that the first UPPER body motion is AROUND. There MUST be the correct routing of the hands DOWN ON PLANE to eliminate the slice/over the top/casting/crap. I am confirming your words "initiates the DOWNswing with a weight shift. Yes. See how we are in agreement. Probably more than first impressions. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve had to go through a lot of pain to relearn this truth about the swing. And my problems developed out of a very minor swing change, trying to remain tighter over the ball. Of course without realizing it, this restricted my natural weight shift … and then the fun began. D.E.
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts.
The principle behind it is very simple, by dropping the hands you avoid all centripetal force that’s responsible for releasing the club. That’s his way of delaying the release until the bottom half of the arc when rotation takes over and releases the club. Now the question is does this drop happen as a result or is it his perception he’s doing it deliberately? I think it’s both. When the hips lead the shoulders in the down stroke it pulls the right shoulder down. This downward right shoulder motion causes the path of the hands to be more linear than circular. The dropping of the hands that O’Meara is advocating is probably the result of proper mechanics that he perceives as a deliberate drop. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. The principle behind it is very simple, by dropping the hands you avoid all centripetal force that’s responsible for releasing the club. That’s his way of delaying the release until the bottom half of the arc when rotation takes over and releases the club. Now the question is does this drop happen as a result or is it his perception he’s doing it deliberately? I think it’s both. When the hips lead the shoulders in the down stroke it pulls the right shoulder down. This downward right shoulder motion causes the path of the hands to be more linear than circular. The dropping of the hands that O’Meara is advocating is probably the result of proper mechanics that he perceives as a deliberate drop. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Hi Dave. Neat visiting with you here in PC, and I was happy I got to see YOUR expertise and knowledge while you were here on your visit. Thank you very much for stopping by. Absolutely agree. There is an additional element in my procedure and experience to this thought, and it is this. Initially it is extremely deliberate that when a swing is being learned, the golfer must totally NOT DO any rotary motion until the hands are directed downward on plane and on line by the left hand. This is, in the initial stages of training, a cognitive deliberate act. But when it becomes habitual, it doesn’t need attention as much. If spinning out happens at some time later, that means the "around" is overpowering the "down", and that the dropping isn’t happening correctly. So the golfer must go back and retrain the "down comes first" procedure. Hence we agree that "it is both". It doesn’t take much drop however to get it right, and the rotation of the shoulders will GREATLY help the DROP as well as the around vector. Once the motion is underway, the pull of the left shoulder on the left arm acts to help pull down because the down part is already underway and at that point the around vector does not overcome the down momentum. Wow. Words. But I think they help the reader to clarify the whole thingee. And there isn’t any question but that the beginning of the downswing is where kitty wears the beads in a golf swing! George
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
Interestingly enough, looking at O’Meara’s swing in slo mo shows he doesn’t really do what he says. It probably just "feels" like that to him. — F. Blaine Dickson Kelowna BC Canada
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts.
This is certainly one of the resons why O’Meara has Hank Haney. O’Meara, and virtually every other pro for that matter, initiates the downswing with a weight shift which results in the arms being PULLED down. Do what the touring pros do, not necessarily what they say! Scottb
Response:
Me too. And I am sure its the cause of my constant battle with hooks and pullhooks. I think that if you ‘drop’ rather than ‘pull’ the hands then you must be avoiding that tension in the shoulders and arms which is a killer. Did you get to read what happens next eg hip slide/turn? or were you called to help with the dishes instead of hiding in the bathroom. James
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
BJ AND OTHERS: My protocol for this question as well as for the problems of spinning out, etc.were fully addressed on 10/28/00 entitled "Spinning out/coming across the ball" It is a "by the numbers" protocol on this most critical part of the swing. I am not familiar with MO’M’s thing at all, but I suspect similarities. Thank you for asking. It is also addressed in my immediate last post about "Re golf and age", 8:29 pm. George
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
This is also what is referred to as the "pulling on the rope" move (imagine instead of a club, you are holding a rope hanging from above – you want to pull down on the rope, as if ringing a bell tower). It is also similar to what Scott Burr wrote in the "How to really cure your slive forever…" It works! Stuart Winsor
Response:
My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
Response:
You are right i din’t get to hide in there much longer, but i do have the article with me. "See how much more my arms have moved in comparison with my shoulders and hips? My arms have joined in with the rest of my body, and now the whole package is moving toward impact with speed, power and accuracy.Start the downswing slowly, then pour on the steam". No explicit mention of the hip slide/turn. B. J. Wilkinson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Me too. And I am sure its the cause of my constant battle with hooks and pullhooks. I think that if you ‘drop’ rather than ‘pull’ the hands then you must be avoiding that tension in the shoulders and arms which is a killer. Did you get to read what happens next eg hip slide/turn? or were you called to help with the dishes instead of hiding in the bathroom. James My search for bathroom reading material this morning led me to a Sept 1996 Golf Digest. In there Mark O’Meara advocated coiling, pausing at the top of the backswing, and then initiating the downswing by dropping the hands to waist level. The first move down is an enduring mystery for me. Comments please on O’Meara’s thoughts. George, this is one teed up for you to take a swing at. B. J.Wilkinson
Response:
You are right i din’t get to hide in there much longer, but i do have the article with me. "See how much more my arms have moved in comparison with my shoulders and hips? My arms have joined in
is this where Ballard would "cough, cough" & whisper "connection" with the rest of my body, and now the whole package is moving toward impact with speed, power and accuracy.Start the downswing slowly, then pour on the steam".
–Coops ps early on, JB spoke of "flexing the shaft" at the start of the down- swing. I guess some could get the feeling of shaft flexing by dropping their hands (which I would consider an interesting take on what JB was intending. Never understood what he meant by "FTS") – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -No explicit mention of the hip slide/turn. B. J. Wilkinson