Question:

Where is Dennis Tan?  I think he can probably address this one.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was playing at Robina Woods (Australia) the other day and my backswing was impeded by a cane toad. I took a drop, not even sure if I was allowed one. Just assumed I was. Correct?

Response:

A live toad is an outside agency. A dead one is a loose impediment. There was a situation in the Asian PGA event where a player’s ball landed close to a frog. He asked what could he do. Since it was alive, it was an outside agency and he was allowed to try to scare it away. A light touch with the club was all it took to get the frog to move. The original post seem to deal with a swarm of insects. I am not sure whether that qualifies as a dangerous situation. We need to know what these insects were. If they were bees or wasp, yes, equity would apply ( a dangerous situation). But if they were flies, surely not. In professional events a player has the benefit of getting a rule official to make this call. In social events, this can be quite different and good judgement should prevail. I hope that helps. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Where is Dennis Tan?  I think he can probably address this one. I was playing at Robina Woods (Australia) the other day and my backswing was impeded by a cane toad. I took a drop, not even sure if I was allowed one. Just assumed I was. Correct?

Response:

I was playing at Robina Woods (Australia) the other day and my backswing was impeded by a cane toad. I took a drop, not even sure if I was allowed one. Just assumed I was. Correct? would the toad be considered a loose impediment?  why couldn’t you just shoo him away?  you can shoo away a fly, why not a toad?

they tend to freeze still when you poke them. These things are quite large (about the size of your hand without the fingers, and quite bulky) not your average frog. When I first saw it I thought it was a funny looking rock, that’s what they look like. In a comp I assume you would get a drop, I could have flicked the toad away with my club but it was easier to move the ball given it wasn’t a comp. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -charlie Before you buy.

Response:

I was playing at Robina Woods (Australia) the other day and my backswing was impeded by a cane toad. I took a drop, not even sure if I was allowed one. Just assumed I was. Correct?

would the toad be considered a loose impediment?  why couldn’t you just shoo him away?  you can shoo away a fly, why not a toad? charlie Before you buy.

Response:

I was playing at Robina Woods (Australia) the other day and my backswing was impeded by a cane toad. I took a drop, not even sure if I was allowed one. Just assumed I was. Correct? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What the hell does it matter? a ball lies in a bunker.  in this bunker there is a swarm of insects. the player does not know what kind of insects they are.  the player wants relief.  does he get it? the insects are swarming in the entire bunker.  could he get relief outside the bunker? the insects look like some kind of bee or wasp or hornet.  assuming they’re some kind of stinging insect, is relief possible? the player gets in another bunker and the insects are swarming about 5 feet away from his ball but not where his ball lies.  does he get relief? at the turn, it is revealed by the greenskeeper that those insects do not sting.  the player gets into another bunker with the same insects swarming in it and wants relief again.  does he get it, now knowing that the insects do not sting? these situations actually happened this weekend to us.  i thought they were hornets, but the greenskeeper told us they were something like a dirt dauber (ie mean looking but don’t sting). charlie Before you buy.

Response:

What the hell does it matter? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -a ball lies in a bunker.  in this bunker there is a swarm of insects. the player does not know what kind of insects they are.  the player wants relief.  does he get it? the insects are swarming in the entire bunker.  could he get relief outside the bunker? the insects look like some kind of bee or wasp or hornet.  assuming they’re some kind of stinging insect, is relief possible? the player gets in another bunker and the insects are swarming about 5 feet away from his ball but not where his ball lies.  does he get relief? at the turn, it is revealed by the greenskeeper that those insects do not sting.  the player gets into another bunker with the same insects swarming in it and wants relief again.  does he get it, now knowing that the insects do not sting? these situations actually happened this weekend to us.  i thought they were hornets, but the greenskeeper told us they were something like a dirt dauber (ie mean looking but don’t sting). charlie Before you buy.

Response:

That reminds me.  I’ve always wondered if you could get free relief if you ball came to rest on a dead cat (for example).  Suppose its owner is standing nearby insisting you don’t play your next shot off the carcass of his beloved Fluffy.

The trick is to say ‘Wait, I think he’s still breathing’;  not only does that bring some hope to Fluffy’s owner, but also makes it an outside agency….. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

<even more snippage I can see your point about the sprinklers, but at what point would the flying insects turn into the persistent swarm of insects? What would qualify as persistent? two holes? 5? I dunno.  Maybe if there’s a huge volume of winged ants or termites in one particular spot.

If I was playing in a casual round, I’d take an unplayable lie, add one stroke, and keep going. (The people I play golf with think I am a a bit harsh in penalizing myself. I don’t think they are playing real golf, but I won’t get into that debate.  :-)  ) That reminds me.  I’ve always wondered if you could get free relief if you ball came to rest on a dead cat (for example).  Suppose its owner is standing nearby insisting you don’t play your next shot off the carcass of his beloved Fluffy.  Would you quote him the decision about "a dead snake is a loose impediment" and say apologetically, "Sorry, I’ll try not to take a big divot."

If it was a casual round, I’d mark the spot, remove fluffy from the course, hand fluffy to the owner, and then attempt to remark the spot and continue playing, while muttering under my breath about how rude it was of the owner to interupt my game. If it wasn’t a casual round, I’d ascertain that fluffy wasn’t with us anymore, then afterwards, hand over fluffy, especially if a member of the committee wasn’t available. I’d also apologize for having to use fluffy as a hitting mat.     (j/k) (Seriously, I love cats, and would be most upset also.) — Teresa Williamson roll call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/williamsont.htm RSG FAQ:  http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   -joseph

Response:

<snippage I disagree.  I think a strong case can be made for equity relief when there is continual interference from an outside agency.  Say, a large and persistent swarm of flies or mosquitoes.  Or a running sprinkler that can’t be turned off or redirected.   -joseph I can see your point about the sprinklers, but at what point would the flying insects turn into the persistent swarm of insects? What would qualify as persistent? two holes? 5?

I dunno.  Maybe if there’s a huge volume of winged ants or termites in one particular spot. That reminds me.  I’ve always wondered if you could get free relief if you ball came to rest on a dead cat (for example).  Suppose its owner is standing nearby insisting you don’t play your next shot off the carcass of his beloved Fluffy.  Would you quote him the decision about "a dead snake is a loose impediment" and say apologetically, "Sorry, I’ll try not to take a big divot."   -joseph

Response:

My answers are within your post Teresa a ball lies in a bunker.  in this bunker there is a swarm of insects. the player does not know what kind of insects they are.  the player wants relief.  does he get it? I think that he *might* be able to, if they look similar to a wasp/hornet/bee, etc. A flying swarm of flies wouldn’t be admissible.

I disagree.  I think a strong case can be made for equity relief when there is continual interference from an outside agency.  Say, a large and persistent swarm of flies or mosquitoes.  Or a running sprinkler that can’t be turned off or redirected.   -joseph

Response:

<snippage I disagree.  I think a strong case can be made for equity relief when there is continual interference from an outside agency.  Say, a large and persistent swarm of flies or mosquitoes.  Or a running sprinkler that can’t be turned off or redirected.   -joseph

I can see your point about the sprinklers, but at what point would the flying insects turn into the persistent swarm of insects? What would qualify as persistent? two holes? 5? I guess I am acclimated to playing golf in "less than ideal conditions" (i.e. country course with lots of bugs, weeds, diviot holes, etc.) Teresa

Response:

My answers are within your post Teresa

a ball lies in a bunker.  in this bunker there is a swarm of insects. the player does not know what kind of insects they are.  the player wants relief.  does he get it?

I think that he *might* be able to, if they look similar to a wasp/hornet/bee, etc. A flying swarm of flies wouldn’t be admissible. If they were shown during the round to be non-threatening, then relief, under the penalty of 1 stroke, could be made to a point through the green, online behind the bunker. Or there could be a drop into another bunker, not nearer to the hole, where there was not a dangerous situation. the insects are swarming in the entire bunker.  could he get relief outside the bunker?

see above answer the insects look like some kind of bee or wasp or hornet.  assuming they’re some kind of stinging insect, is relief possible?

rule decision is below the player gets in another bunker and the insects are swarming about 5 feet away from his ball but not where his ball lies.  does he get relief?

Not possible without penalty, unless they think that you look like a good morsel to feed on.. at the turn, it is revealed by the greenskeeper that those insects do not sting.  the player gets into another bunker with the same insects swarming in it and wants relief again.  does he get it, now knowing that the insects do not sting?

relief from the bunker could either be into another bunker, or on penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker. these situations actually happened this weekend to us.  i thought they were hornets, but the greenskeeper told us they were something like a dirt dauber (ie mean looking but don’t sting). charlie Before you buy.

1-4/10  Dangerous Situation; Rattlesnake or Bees Interfere with Play Q. A player