Question:
What about multiplicative? Or even better, divisive? 
Mine’s fractured. Cheers Colin Wilson Trentham Golf Club http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
Response:
The elbows are not positioned upward, forced or not forced. Nor did Hogan hold them together, forced or not forced. Hogan held his elbows at address somewhat apart, as other drawings in Five Lessons illustrate, not to mention historic photos. So you can hold your elbows together if you wish, but you are not emulating anything Hogan did (with the exception that he did experiment with this very early in his career). As a matter of fact, you are adopting the opposite of Hogan’s technique. What about multiplicative? Or even better, divisive?
Certainly it’s a divisive subject. But mechanically additive and yes, multiplicative as you suggest. David A.
Response:
The elbows are not positioned upward, forced or not forced. Nor did Hogan hold them together, forced or not forced.
I hope you are not thinking that I mean *touching* each other. I only wish I were that flexible! Hogan held his elbows at address somewhat apart, as other drawings in Five Lessons illustrate, not to mention historic photos. So you can hold your elbows together if you wish, but you are not emulating anything Hogan did (with the exception that he did experiment with this very early in his career).
My interest in whether I am ‘emulating anything Hogan did’ is somewhere left of zero. I am only interested that it works, and it certainly seems to. I just read it on rsg as – purportedly – a tip Hogan made. As a matter of fact, you are adopting the opposite of Hogan’s technique.
So he swung with his elbows pointing downwards? I very much doubt that. What about multiplicative? Or even better, divisive? Certainly it’s a divisive subject. But mechanically additive and yes, multiplicative as you suggest.
The comment you are replying to here was not made by me. I still have no idea what you are talking about. ’Mechanically additive’ – huh? You are either ‘marching to the beat of a different drum’ or you need to do some serious clarification. — Steve Walker ‘He comes to realise that the game is not against the foe, but against himself. His little self. That yammering fearful ever-resistant self that freezes, chokes, tops, nobbles, shanks, skulls, duffs, flubbs. This is the self we must defeat.’
Response:
DLANAZ wrote in Hogan held his elbows at address somewhat apart
Can’t say what he did in historical photos or real life etc etc. BUT there is no question in my version of the book that he STRONGLY advocated, when at the address, as follows: "A word of emphasis about the elbows. You want to press them as closely together as you can." Subsequently in the next line drawing he shows the elbows as though bound together by rope whipping from wrists to above the elbows and the caption next to the drawing reads: "Keep the elbows and arms as close together as possible throughout the entire swing." There’s just absolutely no way in that book, "The Modern Fundamentals of Golf", that he advocates holding ‘… his elbows at address somewhat apart …". Sorry, but he makes it absolutely clear. He also stipulates unequivocably that the little pockets on the inside of the elbow joints should face upward. If you disagree, fine, but tell me exactly where in the book he says keep the elbows apart Incidentally, it was me and not Steve Walker that made the silly joke about mulltiplicative or divisive. Nothing meant by it really. Just didn’t understand what you meant by "mechanically additive". — Eddie Haynes-Smart Cape Town, South Africa
Response:
(Best recent score 29 over which IS not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it.)
My best this year is 21 over par . … . … . … . … and that was for 9 holes. I haven’t been able to fit in 18 yet. Brian Yare Handicap Secretary Ravenmeadow Golf Club Worcester
Response:
{snip} from the daily men’s tees, so it’s not very hard – a 77 is really still 9 over, which is not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it, of course.
I just got to repeat that "a 77 is really still 9 over, which is not that great"?!?! Steve I think you need some reality lessons:-) Crispin Roche (Best recent score 29 over which IS not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it.)
Response:
<Snip BTW – aren’t mothers (and dads) wonderful? My green fees are due end of this month, but we are pretty hard up and it was looking as though I wasn’t going to be able to renew, which would have been awful – if I was having to pay for each round I just know I’d hardly ever get to play. My mother came round yesterday and said she and my dad were buying me the season ticket for my birthday (which isn’t even until December!) – and they’re comfortable, but not rich, so it’s not a small expense for them either. Thanks ma and pa!!
Mum, Dad – Steve’s getting his membership paid for him for his birthday and he’s still got 9 months to go. Can I have one, can I? Nick.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – {snip} from the daily men’s tees, so it’s not very hard – a 77 is really still 9 over, which is not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it, of course. I just got to repeat that "a 77 is really still 9 over, which is not that great"?!?! Steve I think you need some reality lessons:-) Crispin Roche (Best recent score 29 over which IS not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it.)
Yeah, I guess you’re right. It doesn’t seem that great, probably because I’m fairly demanding on myself, generally. I’m at a stage now where on any of the holes at our course (which has a few tough holes but is not tough overall), failing to achieve par is a disappointment. So 9 over SSC for 18 means I had a 50% disappointment rate. Well, not really, as par is 71, but I’m not fooling myself that I’d score under 80 on a course with the same par and a higher SSC. I’d like to play from the medal tees (SSC from those tees is 72, par 71) but they are reserved for competitions and as I’m not a member I can’t play in those yet. I think the main thing that made it seem disappointing was the number of birdie chances that went begging – 6 decent chances out of 7 (putts 6-15 feet, sank a 9-footer and just missed all the others). But a couple of weeks ago I’d have thought I was dreaming to have 7 real birdie chances in a round. So I should be deliriously happy that my irons worked well enough to create the chances, but my mind tends not to work like that. It spurs me on to work to improve, but it does tend to take the edge of my enjoyment when I manage to achieve something. It’s funny, cos I’m not demanding with others, just myself. I’m trying to work on one of the points that stuck with me from Rotella’s book – to have, as one’s expectation for a round, nothing more nor less than to have fun, and a good mental approach on each shot, and to accept whatever else comes your way, good or bad. But I don’t always find it easy, though I keep it to myself. Cheers, — Steve Walker ‘He comes to realise that the game is not against the foe, but against himself. His little self. That yammering fearful ever-resistant self that freezes, chokes, tops, nobbles, shanks, skulls, duffs, flubbs. This is the self we must defeat.’
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -That actually sounds a far better practice regime than going to a range. I found with a range, especially off of the mats, you don’t really get a true feel of what you should or shouldn’t be doing. Having a set target to aim for and treating each shot as if it were during a round is an excellent idea. I’ve tried to convince my wife of this when we have gone to the range but she seems to think it’s a contest to see who can empty their bucket first. Consequently she finishes up nicking some of mine as well. Having this set area is very useful and gives me an idea for when the weather, and lighter evenings, really kick-in. I’m planning on getting a 5 day ticket for a course on the way home from work, but probably not being able to justify spending more than two evenings a week playing, I could go to their practice area and just hit shots I’m having trouble with for an hour or so. The only drawback is having to go and pick the balls up each time
That’s actually a plus! Or at least I’ve found it to be – it more closely mirrors actual golf, because it forces a break between shots like you would have on the course. On the range, you can get into a rhythm that gives a false picture of consistency, because you are hitting the shots much more closely together. It continues to bear fruit, as well. Was stuck behind 2 threesomes on the course on Saturday, while I was booked as a single, so I joined up with a father-son pairing behind me to help the round go smoother. The dad couldn’t play much, but was just keeping his son – a 17 year old playing off 6 – company. I finished 2 shots behind the young hotshot, which I was very pleased with, as I’m not used to playing under the pressure of wanting to keep up with someone else. Carved out 7 good birdie chances but only converted 1 (my putting let me down a little on birdies, but was good for pars mostly). Out in 39 (4 over) and back in 38. Had a good run with my driver as well, which has seemed to click back into place (or at least did on Saturday), including a really long one (won’t give a figure cos it’ll start a flamefest, but suffice it to say it’s not a figure I achieve very often) *into* the wind, which I was dead chuffed with. So I equalled my new PB the second time in 3 rounds [this time with witnesses! ]. Really fancied myself to beat it, as the strong wind was *exactly* behind the tee on the par 5 18th. Unfortunately, I chose that drive to forget the ‘knee-press’ that’s been part of the changes I’ve made to my stance/swing for consistency and sliced it miles wide, then blocked the attempted recovery with the 7w to the right as well, right behind a row of trees next to the clubhouse. 
Remembered the knee-press for the 3rd shot and played a mile-high PW out of rough, over the trees to 15ft (one of the most satisfying shots I’ve ever played) to still have a birdie chance, but missed it and made par. P.S. Steve, 77! I’ve taken out the contract so tread carefully
I’m just waiting for the 90 – it has to be waiting to ambush me when I least expect it. Also, remember that our course has an SSC of only 68 from the daily men’s tees, so it’s not very hard – a 77 is really still 9 over, which is not that great, though I’m still very pleased with it, of course. BTW – aren’t mothers (and dads) wonderful? My green fees are due end of this month, but we are pretty hard up and it was looking as though I wasn’t going to be able to renew, which would have been awful – if I was having to pay for each round I just know I’d hardly ever get to play. My mother came round yesterday and said she and my dad were buying me the season ticket for my birthday (which isn’t even until December!) – and they’re comfortable, but not rich, so it’s not a small expense for them either. Thanks ma and pa!! Cheers, — Steve Walker ‘He comes to realise that the game is not against the foe, but against himself. His little self. That yammering fearful ever-resistant self that freezes, chokes, tops, nobbles, shanks, skulls, duffs, flubbs. This is the self we must defeat.’
Response:
The arms are held relaxed, slightly in contact with the ribs. This in itself is not magic, but it allows the "magic" to shortly transpire. No forced positions, such as with the elbows held tightly together as his book incorrectly describes at several points, and as countless golfers unknowingly try to duplicate. A fault can correct a fault only in a faulty way. The golf swing, at its best is additive, not subtractive.
I have no idea what you are on about with that last statement. But pls not that at no point did I say the elbows were ‘held tightly together’. In fact, the posts from which I picked up the tip were discussing that exact point, and the conclusion was that the inner elbow should be facing upwards with the elbows as close together as they could be held – *without* forcing. You have tried to correct me on something I didn’t say. — Steve Walker ‘He comes to realise that the game is not against the foe, but against himself. His little self. That yammering fearful ever-resistant self that freezes, chokes, tops, nobbles, shanks, skulls, duffs, flubbs. This is the self we must defeat.’
Response:
The arms are held relaxed, slightly in contact with the ribs. This in itself is not magic, but it allows the "magic" to shortly transpire. No forced positions, such as with the elbows held tightly together as his book incorrectly describes at several points, and as countless golfers unknowingly try to duplicate. A fault can correct a fault only in a faulty way. The golf swing, at its best is additive, not subtractive. David A.
Response:
DLANAZ wrote The golf swing, at its best is additive, not subtractive.
What about multiplicative? Or even better, divisive? — Eddie Haynes-Smart Cape Town, South Africa
Response:
Your so far from Hogan’s swing it isn’t even funny. Forget the elbows up, he never did it except for a short period early in his career. David A.
Response:
Your so far from Hogan’s swing it isn’t even funny. Forget the elbows up, he never did it except for a short period early in his career.
Never claimed to be close – wouldn’t know, as I’ve never read his book (only a couple of tips mentioned on rsg as being from his book). All I know is, it worked (and continues to work) for me! — Steve Walker ‘He comes to realise that the game is not against the foe, but against himself. His little self. That yammering fearful ever-resistant self that freezes, chokes, tops, nobbles, shanks, skulls, duffs, flubbs. This is the self we must defeat.’