Question:
I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status.
I pretty sure the answer is yes. Not sure about the specific example you gave… dsc – acssysdsc
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Your best bet, as always, is to visit the www.usga.org website for specific info. In your case, I wouldn’t worry in the least. Just think of all the golf sales people, course maintenance people, etc. No problem with broadcasting.
Are sure… if the only reason you got the job was because of your status as a golfer? dsc – acssysdsc
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What ever happened to Homestead Resort and the new $15 million Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course near Palmer, Alaska? http://www.homestead.com/resort Before you buy.
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Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?"
There’s a whole section at the back of the Rule Book (at least my Australian version) covering Rules of Amateur Status and Forfeiture of Amateur Status. The defining criterion is "golfing skill" i.e. if you are paid for something solely or mainly because of this, you forfeit your amateur status. You will forfeit your amateur status if you (my summary): 1. Work as, or take any action to become, a professional golfer. 2. Play for prize money 3. Get paid for giving golf instruction (except as an employee of an educational institution (e.g a physical education teacher) 4. Accept prizes above a certain dollar limit 5. Lend your name or likeness to a product on the basis of your golfing skill 6. Get paid for a personal appearance because of golfing skill 7. Get paid for broadcasting or writing because of golfing skill or reputation (exception: where broadcasting or writing is one’s primary career) 8. Accepting expenses to engage in a golfing competition or exhibition. 9. Accepting a scholarship due to golfing skill, other than one approved by the Amateur Status Committee of the USGA or R&A. 10. Accepting free or reduced club membership because of golfing skill 11. Conduct yourself in such a way (e.g. gambling) that is detrimental to the interests of the game. I don’t think working in a golf shop is covered by any of the above, even though some golfing skill might be a pre-requisite. There nothing that says you can’t do things like design clubs, market equipment, even design a golf course. None of these are directly related to payment for golfing skill. In regard to Melnyk, if was *paid* to endorse a club because of his golfing skill, he’d forfeit amateur status. There’s always a slight probability he did it for nothing. Randy, you’re safe if your broadcasting is your primary occupation. You might be safe on your golfing skill too 
Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call – http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Visit one of Australia’s best club web sites: Trentham Golf Club – http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?" There’s a whole section at the back of the Rule Book (at least my Australian version) covering Rules of Amateur Status and Forfeiture of Amateur Status. The defining criterion is "golfing skill" i.e. if you are paid for something solely or mainly because of this, you forfeit your amateur status. You will forfeit your amateur status if you (my summary): 1. Work as, or take any action to become, a professional golfer. 2. Play for prize money 3. Get paid for giving golf instruction (except as an employee of an educational institution (e.g a physical education teacher) 4. Accept prizes above a certain dollar limit 5. Lend your name or likeness to a product on the basis of your golfing skill 6. Get paid for a personal appearance because of golfing skill 7. Get paid for broadcasting or writing because of golfing skill or reputation (exception: where broadcasting or writing is one’s primary career) 8. Accepting expenses to engage in a golfing competition or exhibition. 9. Accepting a scholarship due to golfing skill, other than one approved by the Amateur Status Committee of the USGA or R&A. 10. Accepting free or reduced club membership because of golfing skill 11. Conduct yourself in such a way (e.g. gambling) that is detrimental to the interests of the game. I don’t think working in a golf shop is covered by any of the above, even though some golfing skill might be a pre-requisite. There nothing that says you can’t do things like design clubs, market equipment, even design a golf course. None of these are directly related to payment for golfing skill. In regard to Melnyk, if was *paid* to endorse a club because of his golfing skill, he’d forfeit amateur status. There’s always a slight probability he did it for nothing. Randy, you’re safe if your broadcasting is your primary occupation. You might be safe on your golfing skill too Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call – http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Visit one of Australia’s best club web sites: Trentham Golf Club – http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
Colin, Oh, I’m *definitely* safe on my golfing skill, no doubt about it!!! <g It’s everybody else who’s not safe… Randy
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I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status.
it can in my copy of the R&A rules on amateur status this is spelled out fairly clearly (see p112-123). it says that entering into an agreement with a sponsor is definately a breach, as is in *SOME* cases broadcasting. i’d imagine the kuchar situation would have fallen into that. If that’s the case, then, by golly, MY amateur status may be gone (which would make me the world’s worst golf pro).
no because it says as exceptions in broadcasting: if broadcasting or writing as part of ones primary occupation or career, provided instruction in playing golf is not included. Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?"
it says guys who work in the golf shop are okay as long as they don’t get paid for golf instruction. i don’t know if the usga rules have a similar appendix randy maybe ….. if they don’t and you are still interested let me know and i’ll get you a copy of the r&a rule book. brett
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I’ve never really been concerned about it. I don’t play in enough tournaments that it would ever really effect me. Just a scramble here and there. If anyone ever mistook me for a pro, then I’d send ‘em to the nearest optometrist. Randy website: http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm "You can’t teach an old dog math."
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status. it can in my copy of the R&A rules on amateur status this is spelled out fairly clearly (see p112-123). it says that entering into an agreement with a sponsor is definately a breach, as is in *SOME* cases broadcasting. i’d imagine the kuchar situation would have fallen into that. If that’s the case, then, by golly, MY amateur status may be gone (which would make me the world’s worst golf pro). no because it says as exceptions in broadcasting: if broadcasting or writing as part of ones primary occupation or career, provided instruction in playing golf is not included. Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?" it says guys who work in the golf shop are okay as long as they don’t get paid for golf instruction. i don’t know if the usga rules have a similar appendix randy maybe ….. if they don’t and you are still interested let me know and i’ll get you a copy of the r&a rule book. brett
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The rule in this case would be Quoting from 19996 R&A rules USGA may be different. Lending Name Or Likeness "Because of golf skill or golf reputation receiving or contracting to receive payment, compensation or personal benefit, directly or indirectly, for allowing one’s name or likeness to be used in any way for the advertisement or sale of anything, whether or not used in or appertaining to golf except as a golf author or broadcaster as permitted by rule 1-7 Note: A Player may accept equipment from anyone dealing in such equipment providing no advertising is involved" Then rule 1-7, the one which affect Randy is Broadcasting and Writing "Because of golf skill or golf reputation, receiving payment or compensation, directly or indirectly, for broadcasting concerning golf, a golf event, or golf events, writing golf articles or books, or allowing ones name to be advertised or published as the author of golf articles of which one is not actually the author. Exceptions: 1. Broadcasting or writing as part of one’s primary occupation or career, provided instruction is playing golf is not included. 2. Part-time broadcasting or writing, provided (a) the player is actually the author of the commentary, articles or books, (b) instruction in playing golf is not included and (c) the payment or compensation does not have the purpose or effect, directly or indirectly, of financing participation in a golf competition or competitions." Therefore it is my reading that Melnyk is in breach unless he isn’t getting paid for these commercials. However it appears that you are safe Randy as it seems broadcasting was your occupation/career. Brendan — Handicap: 12 Ouyen Golf Club Page http://members.xoom.com/ouyengc RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/deanb.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Melnyk was a fine amateur player, and he knows full well this is BS. Guess it just goes to prove that people have their price. Brendan Dean wrote Wouldn’t endorsing clubs in this way void amatuer status, or is that the reason for "was" rather than "is". Good question. I’m not entirely sure whether Melnyk was ever a touring pro. I do know he was a top amateur. But y’know… you raise an interesting point… When I was doing golf on the radio in Atlanta, we had some discussions amongst ourselves about approaching Georgia Tech amateur Matt Kuchar about doing some on-air work with us. (The campus was just a few blocks from our offices.) There was some concern voiced by some of our people that paying him might affect his amateur status. I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status. If that’s the case, then, by golly, MY amateur status may be gone (which would make me the world’s worst golf pro). Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?" Surely not. Randy website: http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm "You can’t teach an old dog math."
Response:
[...] I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status. If that’s the case, then, by golly, MY amateur status may be gone (which would make me the world’s worst golf pro). Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?" Surely not.
I don’t have the rules here now, but the determining factor is more or less whether you make money from your golfing ability or from your name as a golfer. Accepting prize money from golfing accomplishments or money from giving golf lessons are obvious rules infractions. Likewise, lending your name based on golfing ability is not allowed. In general terms, you can make money from the golf industry, but not from your skill at golf. Your best bet, as always, is to visit the www.usga.org website for specific info. In your case, I wouldn’t worry in the least. Just think of all the golf sales people, course maintenance people, etc. No problem with broadcasting. Bruce RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm
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Anytime someone advetizes golf clubs with the promise that the clubs themselves will make the game easier it is a scam. Different designs have different tradeoffs. Lower the center of gravity is good for some, but not all. "Enlarge" the sweet spot can mean does not have a true sweet spot. With all golf clubs it is important to note that the component that affect outcome the greatest is the shaft. Match the shaft to your swing, the head is relatively minor. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seen them on golf channel. If so tell me I have looked every where on infromation
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Frostback wrote … Anytime someone advetizes golf clubs with the promise that the clubs themselves will make the game easier it is a scam.
Amen, brother. I happened to catch part of their infomercial today and couldn’t believe my ears. They had Steve Melnyk actually saying that these clubs would "improve your golf swing." Melnyk was a fine amateur player, and he knows full well this is BS. Guess it just goes to prove that people have their price. Randy
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Melnyk was a fine amateur player, and he knows full well this is BS. Guess it just goes to prove that people have their price.
Wouldn’t endorsing clubs in this way void amatuer status, or is that the reason for "was" rather than "is". Brendan — Handicap: 11 Ouyen Golf Club Page http://members.xoom.com/ouyengc RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/deanb.htm
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Melnyk was a fine amateur player, and he knows full well this is BS. Guess it just goes to prove that people have their price.
Brendan Dean wrote Wouldn’t endorsing clubs in this way void amatuer status, or is that the reason for "was" rather than "is".
Good question. I’m not entirely sure whether Melnyk was ever a touring pro. I do know he was a top amateur. But y’know… you raise an interesting point… When I was doing golf on the radio in Atlanta, we had some discussions amongst ourselves about approaching Georgia Tech amateur Matt Kuchar about doing some on-air work with us. (The campus was just a few blocks from our offices.) There was some concern voiced by some of our people that paying him might affect his amateur status. I am by no means an expert on the subject, and I’m wondering if getting paid for doing something golf-related (but not actually playing) can impact someone’s amateur status. If that’s the case, then, by golly, MY amateur status may be gone (which would make me the world’s worst golf pro). Anybody know what the rules are? And assuming there *is* the possibility than being compensated for non-playing golf-related activity can affect one’s amateur status, then exactly where is the line drawn? Does it mean that guys who work at a golf shop (not at the golf course) are considered "golf pros?" Surely not. Randy website: http://wwwgolfer.home.mindspring.com RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm "You can’t teach an old dog math."
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I seen them on golf channel. If so tell me I have looked every where on infromation
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I bought a set of irons but returned them after playing one round and hitting a couple of buckets of balls at the driving range. I had the STIFF graphite shafts but the irons twist if not hit in the sweet spot. My swing speed is 100+, but the graphite shafts were not stiff enough for me. I went back to my Ping Zings Stiff Steel Shaft. I returned them two weeks ago but haven’t received a refund. The irons have a coating on the face that wears off after a few balls are hit. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seen them on golf channel. If so tell me I have looked every where on infromation