Question:
<SNIP In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line.
I’ve been following your tips and have tried to incorporate them into my swing when I thought they were appropriate. As you can see from the following swing sequence ( before your tip ) I also start my downswing on a higher OTT plane and I have tried over the last couple of days to follow the above comments. I haven’t videoed it but although I feel that the butt end is following the target line it still feels OTT. Any suggestions ? George ~ 
Response:
Oops forgot the link … http://www.george99.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/videos/index.html George ~
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <SNIP In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. I’ve been following your tips and have tried to incorporate them into my swing when I thought they were appropriate. As you can see from the following swing sequence ( before your tip ) I also start my downswing on a higher OTT plane and I have tried over the last couple of days to follow the above comments. I haven’t videoed it but although I feel that the butt end is following the target line it still feels OTT. Any suggestions ? George ~
It could be that at the top fo the backswing your hands are too close to your neck and not over to the right side of your right shoulder enough… But even so, that is itself not a reason for OTT motion: OTT is due to a transition in which the sequence of events is wrong: down comes before rotation. Of the hands. And they must not be overpowered with rotation in their path to the ball. OTT can only happen if the shoulders rotate out before the hands have defined the downward path to the target line and ball. HTH. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
No offense.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s hard to talk to someone about the golf swing without them taking it personal. I didn’t mean to accuse you of being a slicer (although it’s not a cause for shame since the vast majority of golfers do slice). I meant "you" in the general sense, rather than the personal sense. There is some amount of inside-out even to a square, on-plane, swing. The clubhead goes inside-out before impact, is square at impact, and then goes back inside after impact. However, the swing that Ledbetter teaches with his laser-guide is even more inside-out than this. The clubhead goes inside-out before impact, and continues to go farther outside after impact before coming back to the inside. This is meant to facilitate a draw (or a hook). To hit a draw that starts right and then goes left, you do have to hit noticeably inside-out (and close the clubface, of course). This does lead to a more solid hit and more distance. It also leads to balls that hit on the front of the green and roll right off the back, so there’s a tradeoff, of course.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have a slice. Actually I hit it pretty straight. My belief is that the correct plane is lower on the downswing. It seems to do with the shift to the left and the fact that the wrists are coming from a set position. And that on the downswing the arms are supposed to move before the shoulders… By shoulders I mean the collar bone, not the upper arms. Anyway, if I knew what I was talking about I would be able to do it. Today it was too windy to take a lesson, but maybe tomorrow. If you are like 85% (just guessing) of golfers who fight a slice, coming from the inside out like Ledbetter teaches is a good start towards hitting a more powerful draw. It’s not a bad way to play if you don’t mind hitting a curved shot. If you want to hit straight, though, your best bet is to swing on plane. However, it is very easy for people who have long-standing OTT habits to fall off the wagon trying to swing strictly on-plane, so some inside-out is not a bad idea. George, you bring up an interesting point directly related to my question. On the lasereyez mat there is a line through the imagined path of the ball directly towards the target. On David Ledbetter’s the line for the downswing is far inside giving the impression that the club’s butt end should trace an arc far inside of the one parallel to the ball flight. Ledbetter’s arc seems to be more like the arc that felt so good at my lesson. I guess I have to go back and admit that I can’t figure it out, even a little on my own. I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on? When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction.
I’m not sure about this. Maybe the instruction hasn’t emphased the basics, and has spent too much time addressing specifics.
Response:
It’s hard to talk to someone about the golf swing without them taking it personal. I didn’t mean to accuse you of being a slicer (although it’s not a cause for shame since the vast majority of golfers do slice). I meant "you" in the general sense, rather than the personal sense. There is some amount of inside-out even to a square, on-plane, swing. The clubhead goes inside-out before impact, is square at impact, and then goes back inside after impact. However, the swing that Ledbetter teaches with his laser-guide is even more inside-out than this. The clubhead goes inside-out before impact, and continues to go farther outside after impact before coming back to the inside. This is meant to facilitate a draw (or a hook). To hit a draw that starts right and then goes left, you do have to hit noticeably inside-out (and close the clubface, of course). This does lead to a more solid hit and more distance. It also leads to balls that hit on the front of the green and roll right off the back, so there’s a tradeoff, of course. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have a slice. Actually I hit it pretty straight. My belief is that the correct plane is lower on the downswing. It seems to do with the shift to the left and the fact that the wrists are coming from a set position. And that on the downswing the arms are supposed to move before the shoulders… By shoulders I mean the collar bone, not the upper arms. Anyway, if I knew what I was talking about I would be able to do it. Today it was too windy to take a lesson, but maybe tomorrow. If you are like 85% (just guessing) of golfers who fight a slice, coming from the inside out like Ledbetter teaches is a good start towards hitting a more powerful draw. It’s not a bad way to play if you don’t mind hitting a curved shot. If you want to hit straight, though, your best bet is to swing on plane. However, it is very easy for people who have long-standing OTT habits to fall off the wagon trying to swing strictly on-plane, so some inside-out is not a bad idea. George, you bring up an interesting point directly related to my question. On the lasereyez mat there is a line through the imagined path of the ball directly towards the target. On David Ledbetter’s the line for the downswing is far inside giving the impression that the club’s butt end should trace an arc far inside of the one parallel to the ball flight. Ledbetter’s arc seems to be more like the arc that felt so good at my lesson. I guess I have to go back and admit that I can’t figure it out, even a little on my own. I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on? When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
I don’t have a slice. Actually I hit it pretty straight. My belief is that the correct plane is lower on the downswing. It seems to do with the shift to the left and the fact that the wrists are coming from a set position. And that on the downswing the arms are supposed to move before the shoulders… By shoulders I mean the collar bone, not the upper arms. Anyway, if I knew what I was talking about I would be able to do it. Today it was too windy to take a lesson, but maybe tomorrow.
If you are like 85% (just guessing) of golfers who fight a slice, coming from the inside out like Ledbetter teaches is a good start towards hitting a more powerful draw. It’s not a bad way to play if you don’t mind hitting a curved shot. If you want to hit straight, though, your best bet is to swing on plane. However, it is very easy for people who have long-standing OTT habits to fall off the wagon trying to swing strictly on-plane, so some inside-out is not a bad idea.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, you bring up an interesting point directly related to my question. On the lasereyez mat there is a line through the imagined path of the ball directly towards the target. On David Ledbetter’s the line for the downswing is far inside giving the impression that the club’s butt end should trace an arc far inside of the one parallel to the ball flight. Ledbetter’s arc seems to be more like the arc that felt so good at my lesson. I guess I have to go back and admit that I can’t figure it out, even a little on my own. I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on? When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
If you are like 85% (just guessing) of golfers who fight a slice, coming from the inside out like Ledbetter teaches is a good start towards hitting a more powerful draw. It’s not a bad way to play if you don’t mind hitting a curved shot. If you want to hit straight, though, your best bet is to swing on plane. However, it is very easy for people who have long-standing OTT habits to fall off the wagon trying to swing strictly on-plane, so some inside-out is not a bad idea. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, you bring up an interesting point directly related to my question. On the lasereyez mat there is a line through the imagined path of the ball directly towards the target. On David Ledbetter’s the line for the downswing is far inside giving the impression that the club’s butt end should trace an arc far inside of the one parallel to the ball flight. Ledbetter’s arc seems to be more like the arc that felt so good at my lesson. I guess I have to go back and admit that I can’t figure it out, even a little on my own. I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on? When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
George, you bring up an interesting point directly related to my question. On the lasereyez mat there is a line through the imagined path of the ball directly towards the target. On David Ledbetter’s the line for the downswing is far inside giving the impression that the club’s butt end should trace an arc far inside of the one parallel to the ball flight. Ledbetter’s arc seems to be more like the arc that felt so good at my lesson. I guess I have to go back and admit that I can’t figure it out, even a little on my own.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on? When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on?
Response:
I took a lesson the other day and for one (1) swing it felt like a totally different feeling and my instructor said, "Now that’s it." He was trying to get me to keep the club on a plane like the one that David Ledbetter’s laser thing does. I can’t do it by myself. What’s going on?
When people make posts with "what do I do wrong?" or "why did I hit the ball on the toe?" or such questions, the answer is always the same: your instruction hasn’t addressed the SPECIFICS – or perhaps you haven’t even sought instruction. Regarding a golf swing in particular, like a mobile, the interrelationships of things in a golf swing are interdependent, and very subtle with consequences way out of proportion to the adjustment or item in question would seem right, so usually the answer is much more than what "a tip" will handle. In this case, you need to know how to put your (1) hands, and (2) clubshaft on plane at the top before the beginning of the downswing, and then that you need to direct the butt end of the club down at, and then along, the target line. So "trying" to imitate a feeling without the COGNITIVE KNOWLEDGE of those things will leave you in the dark. Locate some instruction where that information is clear. Then it is a snap – no "trying" remains: you just do it and do it right when you do THOSE things, and the results are immediate. Like the good shot you mention. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com