Question:
I am not sure why that matters?? But since you asked, as a lefty, my front leg is the right. FYI, I try to keep my postings mostly applicable to righties. We lefties are accustomed to converting golf instruction, but odds are you’re not.
Still there are some ambiguities when talking golf swings to people who don’t always know the nomenclature. For instance, when addressing the ball – is your ball in front or is the target in front? When you mention a front leg, it implies that the target is in front.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So Larry, this seems to be a little different than what Gary Sowinski teaches? In fact, this seems to be pretty much in line with Swing Like a Pro? On reflection, how do you feel about the statements you made the last time you were here – do they seem pretty idiotic now? Are there any that you would like to retract? I don’t think this is the real LLLarry. His latest post came from Google. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
Sure sounds like him, or a very good impersonation. Larry mentioned using google before.
Response:
I consider this a big pile of crap. I’ve had a number of lessons and we have never, not ever, in any lesson, talked about the "transition" as the key to the swing. Never. IMO, anyone who tells you it’s the "key" to the swing is someone who is clueless.
"The Big Shift The Transition is the most difficult movement to learn in the golf swing. Arduous as it may be, it is the key to becoming a single digit handicap. So it becomes a hurdle every serious golfer must eventually face in their development. And experience has shown us that it can be learned with a little patience and dedication. " The above is a cut and paste quote of Fred Griffin (of Model Golf). Pros teach the transition once a student progresses above the elementary level. If you have never heard of it, aapparently you have never quite got to that level. I strongly suggest you do a Google search on "the transition" and a little reading. Then apologize to the group for your ignorance. Larry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I consider this a big pile of crap. I’ve had a number of lessons and we have never, not ever, in any lesson, talked about the "transition" as the key to the swing. Never. IMO, anyone who tells you it’s the "key" to the swing is someone who is clueless. "The Big Shift The Transition is the most difficult movement to learn in the golf swing. Arduous as it may be, it is the key to becoming a single digit handicap. So it becomes a hurdle every serious golfer must eventually face in their development. And experience has shown us that it can be learned with a little patience and dedication. " The above is a cut and paste quote of Fred Griffin (of Model Golf). Pros teach the transition once a student progresses above the elementary level. If you have never heard of it, aapparently you have never quite got to that level. I strongly suggest you do a Google search on "the transition" and a little reading. Then apologize to the group for your ignorance. Larry
Larry, my hdcp is 7.8. That is, in case you are numerically-challenged, a single-digit handicap. Now, I say that what you’ve said is crap. You quote something where the author says "This is the key to becoming a single-digit handicap." I’ve proven you wrong. Now, you can apologize. Mike PS: What’s your handicap? Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
Even at the beginning? When he changed my grip and explained his understanding of the swing? No. Even w/ my OTT swing, he never mentioned that. My instructor says that posture and turn are important. I’ve asked him about things like weight transfer, and he doesn’t focus on it–it’ll come naturally when you do other things right. Mike
I agree with your last paragraph here, Mike. I find that when I make a good swing … especially with a longer iron … I’m able to hold my finish properly because everything came together as it should. However, if I ‘focus’ on weight transfer I only tend to introduce sway into my swing. I think if transition was the only needed ingredient for a good golf swing, Nick Price would certainly have a ‘worse’ swing than Ernie Els … Sergio’s would be worse than Couples’, etc. What’s truly needed is for each golfer to understand their OWN swing mechanics, and reproduce them on each swing. Must be why Furyk Sr. never tried to change Furyk Jr.’s swing! Me … I’m a struggling mid-80’s shooter. I used to carry a 15.x, but gave it up in favor of enjoying myself on those few occasions when I got to play. Worrying about numbers didn’t do it for me. I figure I’ve got 12 years left to retirement, and THEN I’ll worry about my scores! (the other) Larry
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even at the beginning? When he changed my grip and explained his understanding of the swing? No. Even w/ my OTT swing, he never mentioned that. My instructor says that posture and turn are important. I’ve asked him about things like weight transfer, and he doesn’t focus on it–it’ll come naturally when you do other things right. Mike I agree with your last paragraph here, Mike. I find that when I make a good swing … especially with a longer iron … I’m able to hold my finish properly because everything came together as it should. However, if I ‘focus’ on weight transfer I only tend to introduce sway into my swing. I think if transition was the only needed ingredient for a good golf swing, Nick Price would certainly have a ‘worse’ swing than Ernie Els … Sergio’s would be worse than Couples’, etc. What’s truly needed is for each golfer to understand their OWN swing mechanics, and reproduce them on each swing. Must be why Furyk Sr. never tried to change Furyk Jr.’s swing! Me … I’m a struggling mid-80’s shooter. I used to carry a 15.x, but gave it up in favor of enjoying myself on those few occasions when I got to play. Worrying about numbers didn’t do it for me. I figure I’ve got 12 years left to retirement, and THEN I’ll worry about my scores! (the other) Larry
One issue for a lot of people is whether they can play enough to learn a good swing. If you can’t get out a lot, then I don’t know that most people are likely to have much improvement. I suppose if they’re very athletic…perhaps. And maybe that’s why a lot of people want to believe there’s a big "secret" to the golf swing. They don’t have time/money to build one from the ground up, and therefore the only hope is some compensation, some tip which will allow them a major improvement in their swing. Sometimes I wonder if it’s like the people who play the lottery. They’ll never have the chance to really earn big money, so their only shot at it is to buy a lottery ticket (or a bunch) and hope. Golf tips, to me, seem like that. I have a relatively fresh memory of what it was like to be an 18 handicapper. I’d get the tip o’ the day, and apply it on the practice tee, and occasionally it would work for me. I remember thinking "So *that’s* what the answer is!" Problem is, I remember thinking that a lot of times. Invariably, I was wrong about it, of course. All the tips did was produce a compensation for something else I was doing, and while it worked for a bit, I’d find that compensation built upon compensation is a recipe for inconstency. Eventually, I saw the pattern. When I thought I had figured it out, I would think back to all the other times I’d thought that. And then realize that the chances this time was different were…low. That’s when I figured out the real secret, which is that there is no secret. This is one reason I don’t read golf magazines. I don’t want to see "How to hit it 20 yards further," "How to banish that slice forever," or "Spin the ball like a pro." Heck, a lot of the time, the "tips" in such magazines are contradictory. And I don’t usually read swing threads here for the same reason. I can’t recall ever getting any advice on the swing here that was a lasting improvement. Never. Might have happened–my memory isn’t perfect–but I can’t remember any of them. They’re always guesses, because A) the people who provide that advice haven’t seen my swing in its entirety, and B) most don’t know what they’re talking about. There are a few exceptions, of course–David Laville knows what he’s talking about wrt the swing, I think Brad Greer does, a few others. Even when I posted about my headcover drill, I tried to do it in such a way as to say "Here’s what helped me, here are the swing faults it is helping me to eradicate, and here are the benefits to it that I’ve found." But I promised nothing, and I sure as heck didn’t tell anyone it was the "secret" to anything. Know what? It sure works for me. But will it help *you*? I have no idea. I’m sure it depends on what your swing currently is like, and I’m in no way qualified to judge that. Even so, I’ll bet that most who tried it here (and a lot said "Wow" in response) won’t keep it up as I have over time. I have a kind of plan in mind right now regarding my improvement as a golfer. It involves two things, really: One is to learn a good, repeatable swing while I still have my physical faculties in place, a swing I can take into retirement (I’m 46). The other is to learn how to hit a draw reliably, because the fade I have as my standard ballflight will not produce the distance I’ll want when I’m 65 years old. I want to learn this stuff while I’m still young enough to enjoy it. :) Mike Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily) I consider this a big pile of crap. I’ve had a number of lessons and we have never, not ever, in any lesson, talked about the "transition" as the key to the swing. Never. IMO, anyone who tells you it’s the "key" to the swing is someone who is clueless. BTW, my current hdcp is 7.8. What’s yours, Larry? Gees Mike. 
I know you have this thing going with Larry.
It’s not larry per se. It’s people who are idiots. But a good transition is a very desireable trait in a golf swing.
Sure. But it is *not* the answer. Larry has had about ten secrets since he first started posting here (assuming this is he). When people keep changing their mind about what is "most important," the best thing you can do is bet the trend: Assume that sooner or later, something else will be "most important," and that their current "answer" will simply fall by the wayside. It is a key… maybe not THE ONE AND ONLY KEY, but definitely an important key.
Is it? Larry presents these things as if it’s all you need to do to golf well. He’s wrong. Maybe your instructor never mentioned transition because you already did it right?
Even at the beginning? When he changed my grip and explained his understanding of the swing? No. Even w/ my OTT swing, he never mentioned that. My instructor says that posture and turn are important. I’ve asked him about things like weight transfer, and he doesn’t focus on it–it’ll come naturally when you do other things right. IMO, when people focus on things like this, they become lost in the forest. You build a swing by compiling components that work together. Focusing on only one thing as if it’s the "answer" is simply asking for a swing that needs other compensations to perform at all–and perform in a mediocre fashion. Meanwhile, what I’ve always been amused by is Larry’s insistence on giving lessons when he himself cannot reach what most would consider a capable level of golfing. The blind leading the blind? You bet! Mike Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
Hi Bill and Mike, You need to complete your transition. You must hit the ball when weight completely transferred to the front leg–with knee essentially straight. Hip turn and etc. will happen naturally and so will the picture followthrough. Larry
My suggestion to Bill and Mike is to not read anything Larry tells you about the swing. He’s largely clueless about the swing, and assumes that one size fits all. In that, of course, is all the evidence you need that he’s clueless. Mike Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
So Larry, this seems to be a little different than what Gary Sowinski teaches? In fact, this seems to be pretty much in line with Swing Like a Pro? On reflection, how do you feel about the statements you made the last time you were here – do they seem pretty idiotic now? Are there any that you would like to retract?
I don’t think this is the real LLLarry. His latest post came from Google. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson Hi Mike and B.J. Well, your problem is what about 99% of golfers, and essentially ALL double digit and above handicap golfers experience every day and will until they get good help. The inability to make a full followthrough is only a symptom. First they do not make a full turn back, but more importantly, they do not complete the "transition" move onto their front foot while still coiled– exactly like we do in a baseball swing as we see the pitcher release the ball. A big full followthrough like we see the pros on TV is automatic when you transition up to your front leg BEFORE your arms swing down. Lessons from a good pro are the best method. Up until a month or so ago, I was still struggling and searching, grasping at straws, going from pro to pro, reading everything, etc. I was not making progress UNTIL I recently completed 4 hours with Jay Lumpkin. I plan to take at least that many more lessons with this pro as I unlearn old habits and relearn a real golf swing. Jay was a touring pro in the 80’s. Jay’s father is Jack Lumpkin, you see him often on The Golf Channel. They taught Davis Love and many other currently touring pros– worked with Jim Flick and Bob Toski, etc. This is the real thing– and NOT cheap, but worth it. I will try to share some of what I am learning. To learn the transition, any good teacher will first ensure your grip and setup are correct so that you can get to the top of your swing in good position–stationary with left arm horizontal and club vertical. Spine still set into the correct pivot angle (you are not standing up straight). Your right shoulder is behind the ball. From there you should be able to lift your left foot, tap it against your right foot, step forward with your left to the address position WHILE lifting the club to the very top. It is extremely important that the arms do NOT start down until your weight is fully on your left leg, left knee essentially straight. Your hips will turn to the target AND pull your torso around which pulls your arms down, and if your grip is correct and light pressure, the club "flails" through like popping a whip. The step forward and hips turning back initiate the swing. A full followthrough is almost automatic as you end up with weight fully on your left, your right shoe showing cleats behind. This is the "step and go" drill as seen in Model Golf. You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily) I consider this a big pile of crap. I’ve had a number of lessons and we have never, not ever, in any lesson, talked about the "transition" as the key to the swing. Never. IMO, anyone who tells you it’s the "key" to the swing is someone who is clueless. BTW, my current hdcp is 7.8. What’s yours, Larry?
Gees Mike. I know you have this thing going with Larry. But a good transition is a very desireable trait in a golf swing. It is a key… maybe not THE ONE AND ONLY KEY, but definitely an important key. Maybe your instructor never mentioned transition because you already did it right?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson Hi Mike and B.J. Well, your problem is what about 99% of golfers, and essentially ALL double digit and above handicap golfers experience every day and will until they get good help. The inability to make a full followthrough is only a symptom. First they do not make a full turn back, but more importantly, they do not complete the "transition" move onto their front foot while still coiled– exactly like we do in a baseball swing as we see the pitcher release the ball. A big full followthrough like we see the pros on TV is automatic when you transition up to your front leg BEFORE your arms swing down. Lessons from a good pro are the best method. Up until a month or so ago, I was still struggling and searching, grasping at straws, going from pro to pro, reading everything, etc. I was not making progress UNTIL I recently completed 4 hours with Jay Lumpkin. I plan to take at least that many more lessons with this pro as I unlearn old habits and relearn a real golf swing. Jay was a touring pro in the 80’s. Jay’s father is Jack Lumpkin, you see him often on The Golf Channel. They taught Davis Love and many other currently touring pros– worked with Jim Flick and Bob Toski, etc. This is the real thing– and NOT cheap, but worth it. I will try to share some of what I am learning. To learn the transition, any good teacher will first ensure your grip and setup are correct so that you can get to the top of your swing in good position–stationary with left arm horizontal and club vertical. Spine still set into the correct pivot angle (you are not standing up straight). Your right shoulder is behind the ball. From there you should be able to lift your left foot, tap it against your right foot, step forward with your left to the address position WHILE lifting the club to the very top. It is extremely important that the arms do NOT start down until your weight is fully on your left leg, left knee essentially straight. Your hips will turn to the target AND pull your torso around which pulls your arms down, and if your grip is correct and light pressure, the club "flails" through like popping a whip. The step forward and hips turning back initiate the swing. A full followthrough is almost automatic as you end up with weight fully on your left, your right shoe showing cleats behind. This is the "step and go" drill as seen in Model Golf. You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily)
I consider this a big pile of crap. I’ve had a number of lessons and we have never, not ever, in any lesson, talked about the "transition" as the key to the swing. Never. IMO, anyone who tells you it’s the "key" to the swing is someone who is clueless. BTW, my current hdcp is 7.8. What’s yours, Larry? Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
Response:
I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Well, the only thing I can tell you is that a full follow-through is only the RESULT of a good swing. Forcing it after impact does nothing at all. You are on the right track, though. You want to find a swing that leaves you in a good balanced follow-through position. It’s something I need to work on, too. One suggestion I’ve seen is to start in that position and swing backwards, to see what you have to go through to get there, and just slowly swing from top of the backswing to the follow-through and back and forth with no ball.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily)
So Larry, this seems to be a little different than what Gary Sowinski teaches? In fact, this seems to be pretty much in line with Swing Like a Pro? On reflection, how do you feel about the statements you made the last time you were here – do they seem pretty idiotic now? Are there any that you would like to retract?
Response:
Larry, Which leg is your front leg – left or right?
Hi B.J. I am not sure why that matters?? But since you asked, as a lefty, my front leg is the right. FYI, I try to keep my postings mostly applicable to righties. We lefties are accustomed to converting golf instruction, but odds are you’re not. A very very good way to practice this drill is to swing your club horizontally like a baseball bat, in slow motion, step forward like batters do, really get the feeling of letting the bat lag behind your hands–pretend it is heavy! Then take your setup and swing exactly like that! Step through the swing, push yourself up from your back foot to up beside the ball– and be amazed at how well you turn back and turn through. When you move forward powerfully you have no choice but to trap the ball against the ground. And that works great because golf irons and fairway woods were designed to trap the ball off the turf–NOT to sweep or clip it off. Hit down on it and it will just soar. larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – B. J. Wilkinson I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson Hi Mike and B.J. Well, your problem is what about 99% of golfers, and essentially ALL double digit and above handicap golfers experience every day and will until they get good help. The inability to make a full followthrough is only a symptom. First they do not make a full turn back, but more importantly, they do not complete the "transition" move onto their front foot while still coiled– exactly like we do in a baseball swing as we see the pitcher release the ball. A big full followthrough like we see the pros on TV is automatic when you transition up to your front leg BEFORE your arms swing down. Lessons from a good pro are the best method. Up until a month or so ago, I was still struggling and searching, grasping at straws, going from pro to pro, reading everything, etc. I was not making progress UNTIL I recently completed 4 hours with Jay Lumpkin. I plan to take at least that many more lessons with this pro as I unlearn old habits and relearn a real golf swing. Jay was a touring pro in the 80’s. Jay’s father is Jack Lumpkin, you see him often on The Golf Channel. They taught Davis Love and many other currently touring pros– worked with Jim Flick and Bob Toski, etc. This is the real thing– and NOT cheap, but worth it. I will try to share some of what I am learning. To learn the transition, any good teacher will first ensure your grip and setup are correct so that you can get to the top of your swing in good position–stationary with left arm horizontal and club vertical. Spine still set into the correct pivot angle (you are not standing up straight). Your right shoulder is behind the ball. From there you should be able to lift your left foot, tap it against your right foot, step forward with your left to the address position WHILE lifting the club to the very top. It is extremely important that the arms do NOT start down until your weight is fully on your left leg, left knee essentially straight. Your hips will turn to the target AND pull your torso around which pulls your arms down, and if your grip is correct and light pressure, the club "flails" through like popping a whip. The step forward and hips turning back initiate the swing. A full followthrough is almost automatic as you end up with weight fully on your left, your right shoe showing cleats behind. This is the "step and go" drill as seen in Model Golf. You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily)
Response:
I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Like you, I tried the swing through the ball technique. It didn’t work at first, but I stuck with it because I was determined to figure out why, really *why*, that I could not make my real swing feel exactly the same as my practice swing. It turned out to be more than a key or a Jedi mind trick. The better part of a summer later, after retooling my backswing path, and learning the patience to get ‘all the way, every time’ to the top, deliberately, without tossing or bouncing the club, came my first true swing. Basically I let fly and the finish was an unexpected slap on my backside with my driver. I’m still interested to know any advice that’s quicker, but I wouldn’t trade the experience. -Gray
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson
Hi Mike and B.J. Well, your problem is what about 99% of golfers, and essentially ALL double digit and above handicap golfers experience every day and will until they get good help. The inability to make a full followthrough is only a symptom. First they do not make a full turn back, but more importantly, they do not complete the "transition" move onto their front foot while still coiled– exactly like we do in a baseball swing as we see the pitcher release the ball. A big full followthrough like we see the pros on TV is automatic when you transition up to your front leg BEFORE your arms swing down. Lessons from a good pro are the best method. Up until a month or so ago, I was still struggling and searching, grasping at straws, going from pro to pro, reading everything, etc. I was not making progress UNTIL I recently completed 4 hours with Jay Lumpkin. I plan to take at least that many more lessons with this pro as I unlearn old habits and relearn a real golf swing. Jay was a touring pro in the 80’s. Jay’s father is Jack Lumpkin, you see him often on The Golf Channel. They taught Davis Love and many other currently touring pros– worked with Jim Flick and Bob Toski, etc. This is the real thing– and NOT cheap, but worth it. I will try to share some of what I am learning. To learn the transition, any good teacher will first ensure your grip and setup are correct so that you can get to the top of your swing in good position–stationary with left arm horizontal and club vertical. Spine still set into the correct pivot angle (you are not standing up straight). Your right shoulder is behind the ball. From there you should be able to lift your left foot, tap it against your right foot, step forward with your left to the address position WHILE lifting the club to the very top. It is extremely important that the arms do NOT start down until your weight is fully on your left leg, left knee essentially straight. Your hips will turn to the target AND pull your torso around which pulls your arms down, and if your grip is correct and light pressure, the club "flails" through like popping a whip. The step forward and hips turning back initiate the swing. A full followthrough is almost automatic as you end up with weight fully on your left, your right shoe showing cleats behind. This is the "step and go" drill as seen in Model Golf. You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily)
Response:
Hi Bill and Mike, You need to complete your transition. You must hit the ball when weight completely transferred to the front leg–with knee essentially straight. Hip turn and etc. will happen naturally and so will the picture followthrough. Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have the same problem myself (well, my practise wing is proably not perfect.) Anyway, two drills which might help are: Club covers under armpits and split grip (several inches between hands). I find both drills help me make full turn, and place less emphasis on shoulders, more on body turn. Hope this helps, and good luck. I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Response:
Larry, Which leg is your front leg – left or right? B. J. Wilkinson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson Hi Mike and B.J. Well, your problem is what about 99% of golfers, and essentially ALL double digit and above handicap golfers experience every day and will until they get good help. The inability to make a full followthrough is only a symptom. First they do not make a full turn back, but more importantly, they do not complete the "transition" move onto their front foot while still coiled– exactly like we do in a baseball swing as we see the pitcher release the ball. A big full followthrough like we see the pros on TV is automatic when you transition up to your front leg BEFORE your arms swing down. Lessons from a good pro are the best method. Up until a month or so ago, I was still struggling and searching, grasping at straws, going from pro to pro, reading everything, etc. I was not making progress UNTIL I recently completed 4 hours with Jay Lumpkin. I plan to take at least that many more lessons with this pro as I unlearn old habits and relearn a real golf swing. Jay was a touring pro in the 80’s. Jay’s father is Jack Lumpkin, you see him often on The Golf Channel. They taught Davis Love and many other currently touring pros– worked with Jim Flick and Bob Toski, etc. This is the real thing– and NOT cheap, but worth it. I will try to share some of what I am learning. To learn the transition, any good teacher will first ensure your grip and setup are correct so that you can get to the top of your swing in good position–stationary with left arm horizontal and club vertical. Spine still set into the correct pivot angle (you are not standing up straight). Your right shoulder is behind the ball. From there you should be able to lift your left foot, tap it against your right foot, step forward with your left to the address position WHILE lifting the club to the very top. It is extremely important that the arms do NOT start down until your weight is fully on your left leg, left knee essentially straight. Your hips will turn to the target AND pull your torso around which pulls your arms down, and if your grip is correct and light pressure, the club "flails" through like popping a whip. The step forward and hips turning back initiate the swing. A full followthrough is almost automatic as you end up with weight fully on your left, your right shoe showing cleats behind. This is the "step and go" drill as seen in Model Golf. You simply can’t hope to play low handicap golf without a solid transition in your swing. When your swing includes a correct transition, the club impacts the ball at the same angle every time. The hinge point is stable over the ball like the mechanical swing machine. Without a solid transition we sometimes hit off the back foot, sometimes off both feet, sometimes off your front foot, but never predictible enough to be accurate. That is high handicap golf. The transition move is the secret of effortless power and accuracy. Learn this and be on your way to the best golf you could play. Larry (yes, I am back, at least temporarily)
Response:
Yeah, golf isn’t the only thing you’re losing penetration in, and not finishing. Sincerely, The Mrs.
Response:
I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
So many people can execute a perfect swing without a ball. I saw a tip somewhere for this. You imagine that the ball and clubface are magnetic, so that the ball sticks to the clubface at address and remains there throughout the swing and all you have to think about is flipping it off in the release. Haven’t tried it though, that’s not one of my problems
Response:
Have the same problem myself (well, my practise wing is proably not perfect.) Anyway, two drills which might help are: Club covers under armpits and split grip (several inches between hands). I find both drills help me make full turn, and place less emphasis on shoulders, more on body turn. Hope this helps, and good luck.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
I have certtainly had this problem. Last time out I finished more swings when my swing thought was initiating the downswing with the left shoulder. I think this helps somewhat against coming over the top. I think I have swaed off some swings – not fifnshed them because I sensed that to finish it would result in a huge roping pull. B. J. Wilkinson
Response:
I too was affected with this same problem a while back…. I am a fair golfer, mid 80’s tomid 90’s … and lost all my rhythym a while back.. I went to an older pro and took about 20 minutes to work this out… start with a preshot routine to a finish position. create 3 checks for yourself start , at impact, and finish… start should be left arm extended butt of the club pointing straight to the ground .. hands above your head. turn your hips and let the club fall… , impact.. a v with the hands leading in front of the ball. and finish which you and i had trouble on .. k position of the legs. right shoulder pointing at the target and wrist turned over .. try ending with the club lying over your left shoulder then look down each time to check the rest of your position.. slow your backswing and speed down to a comfortable fluid rhythym.. and swing the same each time. hope this helps works for me.. but everyones swing is different.. btw relax … best thig the guy taught me in 30 minutes .. hit em well..
Response:
I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to be going through a frustrating time – myy practice swing is fine and my ball striking is OK but I just seem incapable of regularly achieving a full follow through – it feels like I’m just hitting at the ball with arms and shoulders rather than swinging through it – as a result I’m losing distance and penetration. I’ve tried most things i.e. regular lessons with my pro, really relaxing arms and shoulders, more lower body rotation in downswing, trying to treat ball as something in swing path rather than hitting at it, but I just can’t achieve any consistency. Some days my swing feels fine but most times not. Any ideas? Mike Isaacs
Mike, You’ve just hit on my biggest swing problem! I thought it was only me! Sometimes I feel like Kevin Costner in Tin Cup, "I never finish anything". Here’s what’s helping me, for what it’s worth: At the range, I practice a good portion of my shots by: – taking the club to the halfway back position (waist high, or so) – swinging all the way through to a full finish I also do this in my pre-shot routine if I feel that the tendency is creeping back into my game. For me, it’s beginning to help. My brother’s a teaching pro, and told me once, "You know, you have the most beautiful practice swing I’ve ever seen … how in the world to you screw it up so bad in ten seconds?!" 8^) Larry