Question:
First of all, I would like to state that I respect your knowledge of the golf swing and I agree with your points in this post, but I have a few questions.
Ask away, that’s why I’m here. While watching the Golf Channel Academy Live last night (The instructor was Kevin Walker, FWIW), a question of ball position came up and he stated for the irons (especially the short irons) the ball needs to be placed around the middle of your stance. And, of course, I’ve seen this advice on other golf shows,in golf articles, etc.
This is one school of thought, though I don’t agree with it. In using Dr. Mann’s book, "Swing like a Pro" (which I assume the 3 ball width was referenced from) to determine the ball position, it seems that the short iron position for me is halfway between the front foot and the middle of the stance. Is this normal?
That would depend on the width of your stance. If your stance is very narrow you are probably right. And if so, why is the conventional golf wisdom so wrong on this?
The problem with conventional wisdom is that things are accepted because they "fit". Conventional wisdom says we play short irons back so we can hit down on the ball more. Geometry of the swing tells us this isn’t necessary because the more upright lie of the short irons increases the angle of attack. Conventional wisdom is based on perception, the facts are based on science. It’s my opinion that we’re at the threshold of a new era in golf, a lot of the conventional golf wisdom is going to be proven wrong and already has. Golf R&D is now in the computer age and great strides are being made in the biomechanics aspect of the golf swing. Every body from the weekend golfer to the touring pro is going to benefit by this research. I’m excited about it because there will be so much more and new things to learn. Or does the ball position actually wind up to the middle of the stance for short irons when following Dr. Mann’s instructions?
Using Dr. Mann’s method all ball positions are forward.
Response:
Interesting this, You might have subconciosly widened your stance, as I had, but a trip to the local PGA Pro put me right in no time. Just a thought. Russ T.
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: : : I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at : getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the : green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks. : : This is what you should be doing: : : 1) Play the ball forward with all clubs. From driver to wedge the : ball position only changes 3 ball widths. : : David, : : First of all, I would like to state that I respect your knowledge of : the golf swing and I agree with your points in this post, but I have a : few questions. : : While watching the Golf Channel Academy Live last night (The : instructor was Kevin Walker, FWIW), a question of ball position came up : and he stated for the irons (especially the short irons) the ball needs : to be placed around the middle of your stance. And, of course, I’ve seen : this advice on other golf shows,in golf articles, etc. : : In using Dr. Mann’s book, "Swing like a Pro" (which I assume the 3 : ball width was referenced from) to determine the ball position, it seems : that the short iron position for me is halfway between the front foot : and the middle of the stance. Is this normal? And if so, why is the : conventional golf wisdom so wrong on this? Or does the ball position : actually wind up to the middle of the stance for short irons when : following Dr. Mann’s instructions? : : Hit ‘em Good!!! : : JB : : << other excellent stuff snipped
Response:
In using Dr. Mann’s book, "Swing like a Pro" (which I assume the 3 ball width was referenced from) to determine the ball position, it seems that the short iron position for me is halfway between the front foot and the middle of the stance. Is this normal? And if so, why is the conventional golf wisdom so wrong on this? Or does the ball position actually wind up to the middle of the stance for short irons when following Dr. Mann’s instructions?
If the forward ball position works for you, JB, then it’s the right position for you. You probably get your weight shifted properly back to your left side on the downswing and can make good contact with the ball farther towards your front foot. For folks who aren’t getting their weight shifted properly, playing the ball more in the center of the stance may work better on their short irons. — Don Porter Newspaper Reporter & Webmaster Web Page: http://www.datacruz.com/~dporter
Response:
I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green.
I commented on how pushing the clubhead through the impact with your hands can cause hits with wedges to be far shorter than what the wedge should be hitting. This is because of a mental thought to try to accurately place the ball at the pin. The hands will try to guide the clubhead into the ball. In the takeaway move your left shoulder arcs DOWNWARD and outward from the address position. Your arm is at a specific angle to the body in the address position. In the return swing, if the left arm moves ahead of its address angle to the body prior to the shoulder returning to its address position then the hands and club will take a lower arc through the impact zone. This is because the shoulder is still in a DOWNWARD position. I feel that a mental thought of trying to be too accurate causes the arms to move ahead of the body turn. With the club returning on a lower arc than that of the backswing the club will contact the ground before reaching the ball. Work towards synchronizing the turn with the dropping of the arms/hands so that the arms do not race ahead of the turn. This is one of my main teachings for beginners and the result is that many of them hit a nice crisp draw in 1 or 2 lessons. The tips given so far have merit as I recognize most of them as presenting solutions from a different approach than what I use but the result is similar. The good thing is you will overcome this problem with patience and from holding good respect to the thoughtfulness of those who have responded to your question. Glen * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks. This is what you should be doing: 1) Play the ball forward with all clubs. From driver to wedge the ball position only changes 3 ball widths.
David, First of all, I would like to state that I respect your knowledge of the golf swing and I agree with your points in this post, but I have a few questions. While watching the Golf Channel Academy Live last night (The instructor was Kevin Walker, FWIW), a question of ball position came up and he stated for the irons (especially the short irons) the ball needs to be placed around the middle of your stance. And, of course, I’ve seen this advice on other golf shows,in golf articles, etc. In using Dr. Mann’s book, "Swing like a Pro" (which I assume the 3 ball width was referenced from) to determine the ball position, it seems that the short iron position for me is halfway between the front foot and the middle of the stance. Is this normal? And if so, why is the conventional golf wisdom so wrong on this? Or does the ball position actually wind up to the middle of the stance for short irons when following Dr. Mann’s instructions? Hit ‘em Good!!! JB << other excellent stuff snipped
Response:
Hitting fat can only be a couple of causes. First and foremost, ball position. Check to make sure the ball is not forward of your sternum. Secondly, the weight staying on the back foot. Set up with about 70% of the weight on the front foot. When you take the club back DO NOT shift your weight. Think more arm swing and less body motion during the back stroke.
Mr. Evans, As an authorized Golfing Machine instructor I am surprised you would make such statements. Off the top of my head I can think of 5 causes of a fat shot: 1) Over acceleration of the lever assembly. 2) Throwing the club from the top. 3) The assumption that uncocking of the wrist squares the clubface. 4) Having the weight on the back foot at impact. 5) Playing the ball too far back. All of these contribute to a below plane scoop known as fat shot. Failing to play the ball forward of your sternum encourages the weight to stay back and the player to release early in an attempt to square the face for impact. The ball should be played forward of the sternum for all shots. This allows the right side to travel further developing more pivot thrust and encourages to player to get over to his left side for impact. Remember, Homer stated "the left side is always swinging and the right side is always driving". I was also taking back by your statement to set up with 70% of your weight on the left foot and keep it there, don’t shift it. No offense, but this is the definition of a reverse weight shift and discourages hip action and motion. We want the golfer to get his weight to his back foot in the back stroke since the weight shift is vital for balance. It’s difficult if not impossible for the golfer to rotate back around his right hip/condyle if his weight is on his left side. If he can get the weight back he can than use hip motion to shift the weight and use the work it does to his advantage by letting it start the swing and power the downstroke shoulder turn. The further from the hands we can start the swing the better, optimum would be starting the swing with foot action.
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I have to agree with Chuck. 70 percent of your weight on your left foot and leave it there throughout the swing.
Isn’t that the definition of a reverse weight shift?
Response:
I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.
This is what you should be doing: 1) Play the ball forward with all clubs. From driver to wedge the ball position only changes 3 ball widths. 2) Try to make your right hip pass the ball before your hands. This will encourage you to get your weight forward and rotate around your left leg (moves your pivot point in front of the ball). By having your right hip this forward it pulls your right heel off the ground shifting your weight and it creates the tension that pulls your shoulders down. 3) Make sure you’re not to close to the ball at address. As a check you should be able to turn your hips to face the target without your right hip hitting your right elbow. If it does you’re too close and causes you to block out your right elbow in the down stroke resulting in a casting motion to reach the ball for impact. Your arms should be able to swing freely with no right hip interference.
Response:
Hitting fat can only be a couple of causes. First and foremost, ball position. Check to make sure the ball is not forward of your sternum. Secondly, the weight staying on the back foot. Set up with about 70% of the weight on the front foot. When you take the club back DO NOT shift your weight. Think more arm swing and less body motion during the back stroke. Chuck Evans, G.S.E.D. Director of Education Geometric Golf www.learntoteachgolf.com * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
Response:
I have to agree with Chuck. 70 percent of your weight on your left foot and leave it there throughout the swing.
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I have the same problem. I hit it decent off the tee and around the green but many fat approach shots have hurt my game. I have looked into many causes. Here are some of the items I have read about and concentrated on to some with limited success. Reverse Pivot: I quieted my body by narrowing my stance. But, still hit the fat shot. The reverse pivot was somewhat tied to the next item. Head Bobbing, Not Retaining Spine Angle : Fixing this helped my overall game and helped me advance from rank beginner status, but approach shots still were heavy at times. Steep Path: I flattened my swing which helped my driving but had me pull-hooking my approach shots on occasion. The relates a bit to the next item. Over The Top: When my tempo gets fast, this comes up and bites me. Lately, I have been working on delaying my release. Big improvement in the number of fat shots. But, now I get the occasional block from delaying too long. My game needs rythym. Hope somebody else has some advice. I have asked this question before and most responses have related to weight shift. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.
Response:
I hit more wedges on the range than anything else; and I still mis-hit wedges almost all the time on the course. I can hit beautifull wedges on the range. While I’m a beleiver that wedges are the most important clubs to learn to hit well, getting a nice feel on the range is only part of the battle. You have to hit the ball well on the course. For me, it is purely psychological. On the course I worry too much about wedge shots. Just hit the ball. You will miss until you start to get a good feel for distance, but you cannot develop that feel without paying an initial price. Take your stance, make your swing and take what you get. You will make more better shots, and your frequency of better shots will increase. Don’t worry about distance, line, etc. once you take your stance. Don’t worry about anything but making the swing once you take your stance. Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with Nelson. I would take that PW to the range and hit a couple buckets. I would try to eliminate as much body movement as possible. Don’t worry about distance. Concentrate on making contact. Ultimately that is your first problem. I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.
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I agree with Nelson. I would take that PW to the range and hit a couple buckets. I would try to eliminate as much body movement as possible. Don’t worry about distance. Concentrate on making contact. Ultimately that is your first problem. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.
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I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.
Response:
you must be a long driver to get that close… I would say that most fat shots come from not enough weight on left leg and a swing that is slowing down at impact. I would got to a driving range only with my PW and hit a big bucket until I could set a routine around the shot. If you are getting that close you have a pretty good swing going….nobody practices the short game enough, it’s to fun to bang em hard. good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am having a problem hitting my approach shots fat, destroying any chance at getting on the green in regulation, happens from 120 yds to 50 yds from the green. Any tips, drills to help correct would be appreciated. Thanks.