Question:
Harvey Penick, obviously, was from a different era. And his book was not intended to be a treatise on all things golf swing. It is a compliation of notes he made over the years while teaching — not the actual curriculum of what he taught. There are many, many steemed players and teachers over the years who attended the University of Texas, where Penick was the golf coach for many years, or who had visited him in Austin to take a lesson, who would tell you that his teaching style, while different, was no less effective than those who break the golf swing into millimeters. Most important, I think, is that his Little Red Book captures a *spirit* of golf (and teaching in particular) that I think is sadly missing these days. Randy Charter Member, RSG Clique My WEBSITE: www.YouGoGolf.com My RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Production Services: www.RandyBrownProductions.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ordered this book following a recommendation from someone, somewhere, in this newsgroup, and it arrive today. I have had very little time today and so have had just a very cursory glance, ..but I do feel a little perplexed, especially about how *complete* the work can be considered to be. ..eg I quote part of the article on "The Wrist Cock": "..make a golfswing with your left fist and you can immediately see what position the club is in when your wrists cock, then uncock, and cock again at the finish." Have you bought this book and what do you think of it? I currently feel I have bought a book of "lists"…ie lists of "basics" or "fundamentals" but without the visual stuff…I think I’m pleased I bought it on the grounds that it outlines the very basics without the other confusing stuff,….but am not 100% sure! It’s certainly not a Dave Pelz book is it…? I suspect, but am unsure, that after a brief perfunctory viewing I have a real gem of a book, so please someone tell me it’s not just a joke… — Felicity
Response:
I had a Harvey Penick page-a-day calendar for several years. I tried absorbing the information on each page before removing it but only got to May by the end of the year. It took me the rest of the next year to finish. I kept one of the "Take Dead Aim" pages taped to my scorecard holder. I’m astounded at how many golfers (esp women) don’t take careful aim. Many of his simple statements are very profound as well as entertaining. Jane
Harvey Penick, obviously, was from a different era. And his book was not intended to be a treatise on all things golf swing. It is a compliation of notes he made over the years while teaching — not the actual curriculum of what he taught. There are many, many steemed players and teachers over the years who attended the University of Texas, where Penick was the golf coach for many years, or who had visited him in Austin to take a lesson, who would tell you that his teaching style, while different, was no less effective than those who break the golf swing into millimeters. Most important, I think, is that his Little Red Book captures a *spirit* of golf (and teaching in particular) that I think is sadly missing these days. Randy Charter Member, RSG Clique My WEBSITE: www.YouGoGolf.com My RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Production Services: www.RandyBrownProductions.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ordered this book following a recommendation from someone, somewhere, in this newsgroup, and it arrive today. I have had very little time today and so have had just a very cursory glance, ..but I do feel a little perplexed, especially about how *complete* the work can be considered to be. ..eg I quote part of the article on "The Wrist Cock": "..make a golfswing with your left fist and you can immediately see what position the club is in when your wrists cock, then uncock, and cock again at the finish." Have you bought this book and what do you think of it? I currently feel I have bought a book of "lists"…ie lists of "basics" or "fundamentals" but without the visual stuff…I think I’m pleased I bought it on the grounds that it outlines the very basics without the other confusing stuff,….but am not 100% sure! It’s certainly not a Dave Pelz book is it…? I suspect, but am unsure, that after a brief perfunctory viewing I have a real gem of a book, so please someone tell me it’s not just a joke… — Felicity
Response:
If I may paraphrase, Fel, Read on, MacDuff! Jeff
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Response:
If I may paraphrase, Fel, Read on, MacDuff!
LOL ..will do.. ..is this a classic which I see before me? ..or should I be saying: "out dammed book, out I say!"? — Lady Mac F.
Response:
I’ve read a little more. There’s some great things in it, and some quite amusing too. I had to laugh at the opening sentence under "The Waggle" ie "I think the main value of the waggle is that it turns on your juice…" — Felicity
Response:
Judging by the scoring ability of one of the rather ungainly looking golfers I have played with, I feel there could be a lot of truth in this quote: "..don’t be afraid of the player with a good grip and a bad swing. Don’t be afraid of a player with a bad grip and a good swing. The player to beware of is the one with the bad grip and he bad swing. If he’s reached your level, he has grooved his faults and knows how to score." — F.
Response:
I’m very unsure how much I should follow the advice quoted below! In the real world I thought a good golf course tested the golfer’s ability to play from various lies and in varying conditions.. Under the heading "Seasoned Golfers" (p58): "..One disadvantage older players may have had is that they learned the game before the tremendous improvement in golf course maintenance, when it was necessary to hit down on the ball because the grass was sparse. Today’s heavy, well-watered fairways make hitting down on the ball an out-of-date technique."
Response:
I’m very unsure how much I should follow the advice quoted below! In the real world I thought a good golf course tested the golfer’s ability to play from various lies and in varying conditions.. Under the heading "Seasoned Golfers" (p58): "..One disadvantage older players may have had is that they learned the game before the tremendous improvement in golf course maintenance, when it was necessary to hit down on the ball because the grass was sparse. Today’s heavy, well-watered fairways make hitting down on the ball an out-of-date technique."
Hitting down is a concept that can be taken way too literally. As you are already aware, obviously, the swing is an arc and you do not lunge downward during a swing. There is a downward element to it because the arms are attached to your body at the shoulders, which means that the arc moves downward. The further back the ball position, the more the club is moving downward as opposed to forward, and in poor conditions it might be that it would be hard to catch the ball cleanly JUST before low point, and it would be safer to catch it earlier in the down motion before the absolute bottom of its arc. That was the significance of HP’s comment. So your personal experience of your motion is that your stroke is more down at that point than forward, even though both elements exist at all times before low point of your swing… The language of golf and one’s characterization of what he does is so VERY laden with potential for misunderstanding. I have found it liberating to get very objective (as possible!) about what actually does occur as opposed to talking about feelings or vague notions. The more objective something can be stated, the better the chances of not getting thrown off by it… Most of Penick’s notions kick in after a lot of experience, I think, and might not be understood by someone new to the game. Nor do I take them all automatically as gospel….just 99% of them. George Hibbard Not easy to do.
Response:
I am currently experimenting with putting styles, so I dipped into the putting section in read this: "You should make a habit to carry your putter in your left hand. Or both hands, if you wish. But never carry it in your right hand alone. Your left hand and arm are an extension of the putter shaft. That is the feeling you want to have." Does this imply that we should feel we are putting with our left side? This comes as a bit of a surprise to me as I would have thought that a right hander would have more control over distance and direction if they felt they were putting with their right hand, like rolling a ball with the right hand! I’m sure Faldo say’s he feels this in a video. Anyone any thoughts? — F.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am currently experimenting with putting styles, so I dipped into the putting section in read this: "You should make a habit to carry your putter in your left hand. Or both hands, if you wish. But never carry it in your right hand alone. Your left hand and arm are an extension of the putter shaft. That is the feeling you want to have." Does this imply that we should feel we are putting with our left side? This comes as a bit of a surprise to me as I would have thought that a right hander would have more control over distance and direction if they felt they were putting with their right hand, like rolling a ball with the right hand! I’m sure Faldo say’s he feels this in a video. Anyone any thoughts? — F.
I take issue with HP on that point, for one. I see our natural instincts of control and handedness as a considerable gift, and I would not in the world be the first one to advocate using those deep human instinctive gifts for putter control. Everyone wrestles with various ways to make the putter behave. I have decided on right hand control (no left hand at all!) and I think the majority of golfers would agree. It is not shaft manipulation, but pendulum control that I am describing…Tempo, stroke amplitude, aim, and center impact with eyes FOCUSED AND UNCHANGING on the back of the ball until I SEE impact occur! George Hibbard
Response:
—snip I take issue with HP on that point, for one. I see our natural instincts of control and handedness as a considerable gift, and I would not in the world be the first one to advocate using those deep human instinctive gifts for putter control. Everyone wrestles with various ways to make the putter behave. I have decided on right hand control (no left hand at all!) and I think the majority of golfers would agree. It is not shaft manipulation, but pendulum control that I am describing…Tempo, stroke amplitude, aim, and center impact with eyes FOCUSED AND UNCHANGING on the back of the ball until I SEE impact occur! George Hibbard
I’ve tried it both ways, left and right, and am useless either way. No success one handed either. I’ve also tried just allowing the weight of the putter alone to drive the downswing with a little *more* success – sometimes pushing back with the left shoulder, sometimes pulling with the right on the backswing.. I’m just trying stuff out, but I’m sure very few, if any, great players rely on gravity *alone* like this, or their follow-through’s would be shorter than their back-swings.. I wonder how those two extremely successful Penick students, Kite & Crenshaw, felt a putt. Perhaps they just did what came naturally from childhood…or did Penick get them to do it with the left side? — Felicity
Response:
I took Harvey literally on this and have become a very good putter. Most of my weight is on my left side and the ball is positioned off the big toe on my left foot. Eye over ball. No breakdown of either wrist. Slightly accelerating stroke (follow thru longer than back stroke). Patience, practice, realistic expectations. Jane
I am currently experimenting with putting styles, so I dipped into the putting section in read this: "You should make a habit to carry your putter in your left hand. Or both hands, if you wish. But never carry it in your right hand alone. Your left hand and arm are an extension of the putter shaft. That is the feeling you want to have." Does this imply that we should feel we are putting with our left side? This comes as a bit of a surprise to me as I would have thought that a right hander would have more control over distance and direction if they felt they were putting with their right hand, like rolling a ball with the right hand! I’m sure Faldo say’s he feels this in a video. Anyone any thoughts? — F.
Response:
I’m very unsure how much I should follow the advice quoted below! In the real world I thought a good golf course tested the golfer’s ability to play from various lies and in varying conditions.. Under the heading "Seasoned Golfers" (p58): "..One disadvantage older players may have had is that they learned the game before the tremendous improvement in golf course maintenance, when it was necessary to hit down on the ball because the grass was sparse. Today’s heavy, well-watered fairways make hitting down on the ball an out-of-date technique."
Coincidentally, just this minute in coverage of the Nissan Open in the USA on Sky Sports 2, the commentator mentioned that the type of courses on the US tour meant that the players there "..were experts in a limited number of shots" I wonder if there’s a connection with HP’s comment?! Any thoughts..?? — Felicity
Response:
Felicity, After reading your initial posts, I borrowed the Little GREEN Golf Book (the sequel), and finished reading it today. I found it an enjoyable and interesting read. I picked up two thoughts on the subject of putting, which I will give a try. One is the ‘cross-handed’ putting technique i.e. the right hand at the top of the grip, the left hand lower. This should allow the left arm to remain straighter, and the left wrist stays firm through the putting stroke (page 94). The second idea was looking at the hole during the putting stroke to give a better feel for distance (page 95). One of my problems with the short game is getting a feel for distance. John.
Response:
I ordered this book following a recommendation from someone, somewhere, in this newsgroup, and it arrive today. I have had very little time today and so have had just a very cursory glance, ..but I do feel a little perplexed, especially about how *complete* the work can be considered to be. ..eg I quote part of the article on "The Wrist Cock": "..make a golfswing with your left fist and you can immediately see what position the club is in when your wrists cock, then uncock, and cock again at the finish." Have you bought this book and what do you think of it? I currently feel I have bought a book of "lists"…ie lists of "basics" or "fundamentals" but without the visual stuff…I think I’m pleased I bought it on the grounds that it outlines the very basics without the other confusing stuff,….but am not 100% sure! It’s certainly not a Dave Pelz book is it…? I suspect, but am unsure, that after a brief perfunctory viewing I have a real gem of a book, so please someone tell me it’s not just a joke… — Felicity