Question:
—snip One FINDS the grip he needs as I demonstrated on an earlier post this morning. Simple as that.
Yes – the grip must match other factors in the swing, but if, through the "hitting" zone, I use my straightening right arm/tricept to press against my left thumb, does that imply that my left thumb should be on plane? If so which plane? TIA — F.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George : the grip and hands are NOT for squaring the clubface. The proper path / plane/ pivot/ and body rotation do this. In all great swings the hands are passive and along for the ride. OK, brad. Put your hands in an arbitrary position [for your build] and then change your swing to make sure to square the clubface. Why on earth would I want to do that? Why would I want to change my swing in an effort to square the clubface? All I want to do is swing correctly. Tell John Daly he is crazy – that he needs to adopt the SLAP grip – and Freddie and Lee and Paul and Bernard and Hank Keuhne and a host of others. None of these guys makes the slap swing. duh! But no teacher worth his salt would teach Lee’s or Daly’s swing. Why do you take an aberration, and make it gospel?
Damn it Brad: 3 things: 1) you don’t recognize irony in text. 2) you imagine that I advocate in-swing manipulation instead of what you say – that hands are passive. OF COURSE! 3) you fail to account for different bodies. All bodies cannot and do not do what SLAP finds to be an average. No way. If you think Daly, for example, is wrong and that his swing is an aberration, that shows that your understanding is limited by didactics instead of based on reality. Fine – if you want to use models for yourself, go ahead. They are disastrous in details for pupils for whom those details don’t fit their bodies. Real LAWS. Do you see all bodies there the shape of the SLAP model? The shape and preferences of the wiring of the athlete are more important than a slavish following of someone else’s protocol for his shape and musculature and reach and strengths. Last night I got an email telling me my teachings were similar to your teach in AZ. Go figure! One FINDS the grip he needs as I demonstrated on an earlier post this morning. Simple as that. Etc. GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Couples, Daly, and Trevino have backswings that are outside mainstream, outside of usual teaching, and not recommended by any teacher for a student. Why not look at swings from Appleby, Faldo, Price, Els, Allenby, Norman, Woods? Or do on-plane swings intimadate you? Stephan: the reality is as you say, that depending on the build and natural shape of different golfers, their grips must be personalized for naturally squaring the clubface during release — for using a grip that requires no in-swing compensations or manipulations to arrive square at impact. If one person uses a "weaker" position to make that happen than someone like Daly, Duval, Couples, or Azinger, he may be totally unable to play with the "SLAP" grip, and vice versa. Because such would require him to do something untoward and "impossible" for all intents and purposes and still play decent golf. In John Daly’s words where he spends two or three pages on the topic, "There are gas stations all over the country staffed by young men who insisted they could play with a weak [read 'neutral', for the context] grip." A problem arises when a naive instructor tells pupils that "SLAP" is correct for all. it is like saying 42R is the right size suit for all men. Averages are not what make individuals successful, but fitting their own personal bodies. LAWS was written in an attempt to define some of the differences and what is necessary for those differences. GH
Response:
George : the grip and hands are NOT for squaring the clubface. The proper path / plane/ pivot/ and body rotation do this. In all great swings the hands are passive and along for the ride. OK, brad. Put your hands in an arbitrary position [for your build] and then change your swing to make sure to square the clubface.
Why on earth would I want to do that? Why would I want to change my swing in an effort to square the clubface? All I want to do is swing correctly. Tell John Daly he is crazy – that he needs to adopt the SLAP grip – and Freddie and Lee and Paul and Bernard and Hank Keuhne and a host of others.
None of these guys makes the slap swing. duh! But no teacher worth his salt would teach Lee’s or Daly’s swing. Why do you take an aberration, and make it gospel? Couples, Daly, and Trevino have backswings that are outside mainstream, outside of usual teaching, and not recommended by any teacher for a student. Why not look at swings from Appleby, Faldo, Price, Els, Allenby, Norman, Woods? Or do on-plane swings intimadate you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stephan: the reality is as you say, that depending on the build and natural shape of different golfers, their grips must be personalized for naturally squaring the clubface during release — for using a grip that requires no in-swing compensations or manipulations to arrive square at impact. If one person uses a "weaker" position to make that happen than someone like Daly, Duval, Couples, or Azinger, he may be totally unable to play with the "SLAP" grip, and vice versa. Because such would require him to do something untoward and "impossible" for all intents and purposes and still play decent golf. In John Daly’s words where he spends two or three pages on the topic, "There are gas stations all over the country staffed by young men who insisted they could play with a weak [read 'neutral', for the context] grip." A problem arises when a naive instructor tells pupils that "SLAP" is correct for all. it is like saying 42R is the right size suit for all men. Averages are not what make individuals successful, but fitting their own personal bodies. LAWS was written in an attempt to define some of the differences and what is necessary for those differences. GH
Response:
You got it ass backwards George. You’ve been here a year or more touting how the grip IS for manipulatuions and compensation of swings that do not arrive at square impact. George : the grip and hands are NOT for squaring the clubface. The proper path / plane/ pivot/ and body rotation do this. In all great swings the hands are passive and along for the ride.
OK, brad. Put your hands in an arbitrary position [for your build] and then change your swing to make sure to square the clubface. Tell John Daly he is crazy – that he needs to adopt the SLAP grip – and Freddie and Lee and Paul and Bernard and Hank Keuhne and a host of others. You make MY point. The right grip FOR THE MAN DOES square the face when the hands are passive and go along for the ride. THat is exactly what I am saying. And that position necessarily varies from person to person. It does not match SLAP. GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stephan: the reality is as you say, that depending on the build and natural shape of different golfers, their grips must be personalized for naturally squaring the clubface during release — for using a grip that requires no in-swing compensations or manipulations to arrive square at impact. If one person uses a "weaker" position to make that happen than someone like Daly, Duval, Couples, or Azinger, he may be totally unable to play with the "SLAP" grip, and vice versa. Because such would require him to do something untoward and "impossible" for all intents and purposes and still play decent golf. In John Daly’s words where he spends two or three pages on the topic, "There are gas stations all over the country staffed by young men who insisted they could play with a weak [read 'neutral', for the context] grip." A problem arises when a naive instructor tells pupils that "SLAP" is correct for all. it is like saying 42R is the right size suit for all men. Averages are not what make individuals successful, but fitting their own personal bodies. LAWS was written in an attempt to define some of the differences and what is necessary for those differences. GH
Response:
You got it ass backwards George. You’ve been here a year or more touting how the grip IS for manipulatuions and compensation of swings that do not arrive at square impact. George : the grip and hands are NOT for squaring the clubface. The proper path / plane/ pivot/ and body rotation do this. In all great swings the hands are passive and along for the ride. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stephan: the reality is as you say, that depending on the build and natural shape of different golfers, their grips must be personalized for naturally squaring the clubface during release — for using a grip that requires no in-swing compensations or manipulations to arrive square at impact. If one person uses a "weaker" position to make that happen than someone like Daly, Duval, Couples, or Azinger, he may be totally unable to play with the "SLAP" grip, and vice versa. Because such would require him to do something untoward and "impossible" for all intents and purposes and still play decent golf. In John Daly’s words where he spends two or three pages on the topic, "There are gas stations all over the country staffed by young men who insisted they could play with a weak [read 'neutral', for the context] grip." A problem arises when a naive instructor tells pupils that "SLAP" is correct for all. it is like saying 42R is the right size suit for all men. Averages are not what make individuals successful, but fitting their own personal bodies. LAWS was written in an attempt to define some of the differences and what is necessary for those differences. GH
Response:
Ok Tim, Maybe you have right. But actually who knows? The golf swing is probably the most complicated sport movement. So is anything totally clear about this motion, or how to learn it? I have today went through material from David Blair and his patiented "Universal Golf Swing". The theory is based on very simple things. And the rest will follow he say. This is almost the exact opposite of David Leadbetters theory which is about perfection in every position. If David Blairs way of learning works for me, I am going to support your comment: "This "step by step" crap might not even be necessary.", even though also David Blair wants people to learn step by step. These steps are fewer and much simpler! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you don’t start with the grip, you are wasting your time. This is the only contact you have with the golf club, it better be right or close to it. Get some teacher to look at your swing, trust his or her knowledge and listen to what they are saying, do what they are suggesting (yes, it will feel weird, do it anyway). You might find that one small thing leads to a great swing, or your swing is just total shit and needs major fixing. This "step by step" crap might not even be necessary. tim Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi David, Thanks for your answer. But can you please tell me what the problem is to add a sound grip after I have learnt a really good swing? Personally I think the problem can be that my hands are not so movable as I first thought when I built up a very good swing. But if I build my swing as you say, which should start with the grip, I will with my unlucky restricted hands never be able to build a sound swing. What is most important – a sound swing with for example a "shorter" contact between the hands and club, or a very good (advised) hand contact with the club but at the same time a restricted swing that is not advisable? Note that there are some pros on the tours that have very special grips, which work. Otherwise they should not be able to play on the tours. Right now I have a person in my mind which I cant remember the name of. But he is playing on the European Tour and have won some tournaments there. /Stefan Holmgren No Carl, that is not really true I think. You have right in that the grip is a part of the swing. But what I am trying to do is learning the TOTAL swing. And a way of learning the total swing – which I mean is my own perfect swing – is to learn as fast as I can learn, which with my thoughts today means first of all the correct swing, then a grip that fits that swing perfectly. This is backwards. An incorrect grip can ruin a swing before you even take the club back. Suppose your grip is too strong and to keep from hooking you build a swing with a blockout to compensate? Do you think building a swing around an incorrect grip will lead to perfection? If you’re going to go through all that effort to build a perfect swing why not start with something as simple as the grip? Isnt that I nice thought to forget about the never ending thoughts about the grip, and after the swing is there just to find a grip that matches? If you don’t start with a correct grip any re-building you try to do is a waste of time. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice
Stephan: the reality is as you say, that depending on the build and natural shape of different golfers, their grips must be personalized for naturally squaring the clubface during release — for using a grip that requires no in-swing compensations or manipulations to arrive square at impact. If one person uses a "weaker" position to make that happen than someone like Daly, Duval, Couples, or Azinger, he may be totally unable to play with the "SLAP" grip, and vice versa. Because such would require him to do something untoward and "impossible" for all intents and purposes and still play decent golf. In John Daly’s words where he spends two or three pages on the topic, "There are gas stations all over the country staffed by young men who insisted they could play with a weak [read 'neutral', for the context] grip." A problem arises when a naive instructor tells pupils that "SLAP" is correct for all. it is like saying 42R is the right size suit for all men. Averages are not what make individuals successful, but fitting their own personal bodies. LAWS was written in an attempt to define some of the differences and what is necessary for those differences. GH
Response:
This is backwards. An incorrect grip can ruin a swing before you even take the club back. Suppose your grip is too strong and to keep from hooking you build a swing with a blockout to compensate?
But how do you know how strong your grip should be until you see how you hit the ball? I know some teachers tell everybody to use the same grip, but everything I have read this does their players a disservice. You pick your grip strength to fit your swing – not the other way around.
Response:
If you don’t start with the grip, you are wasting your time. This is the only contact you have with the golf club, it better be right or close to it. Get some teacher to look at your swing, trust his or her knowledge and listen to what they are saying, do what they are suggesting (yes, it will feel weird, do it anyway). You might find that one small thing leads to a great swing, or your swing is just total shit and needs major fixing. This "step by step" crap might not even be necessary. tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
Hi David, Thanks for your answer. But can you please tell me what the problem is to add a sound grip after I have learnt a really good swing? Personally I think the problem can be that my hands are not so movable as I first thought when I built up a very good swing. But if I build my swing as you say, which should start with the grip, I will with my unlucky restricted hands never be able to build a sound swing. What is most important – a sound swing with for example a "shorter" contact between the hands and club, or a very good (advised) hand contact with the club but at the same time a restricted swing that is not advisable? Note that there are some pros on the tours that have very special grips, which work. Otherwise they should not be able to play on the tours. Right now I have a person in my mind which I cant remember the name of. But he is playing on the European Tour and have won some tournaments there. /Stefan Holmgren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No Carl, that is not really true I think. You have right in that the grip is a part of the swing. But what I am trying to do is learning the TOTAL swing. And a way of learning the total swing – which I mean is my own perfect swing – is to learn as fast as I can learn, which with my thoughts today means first of all the correct swing, then a grip that fits that swing perfectly. This is backwards. An incorrect grip can ruin a swing before you even take the club back. Suppose your grip is too strong and to keep from hooking you build a swing with a blockout to compensate? Do you think building a swing around an incorrect grip will lead to perfection? If you’re going to go through all that effort to build a perfect swing why not start with something as simple as the grip? Isnt that I nice thought to forget about the never ending thoughts about the grip, and after the swing is there just to find a grip that matches? If you don’t start with a correct grip any re-building you try to do is a waste of time. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice
Response:
No Carl, that is not really true I think. You have right in that the grip is a part of the swing. But what I am trying to do is learning the TOTAL swing. And a way of learning the total swing – which I mean is my own perfect swing – is to learn as fast as I can learn, which with my thoughts today means first of all the correct swing, then a grip that fits that swing perfectly.
This is backwards. An incorrect grip can ruin a swing before you even take the club back. Suppose your grip is too strong and to keep from hooking you build a swing with a blockout to compensate? Do you think building a swing around an incorrect grip will lead to perfection? If you’re going to go through all that effort to build a perfect swing why not start with something as simple as the grip? Isnt that I nice thought to forget about the never ending thoughts about the grip, and after the swing is there just to find a grip that matches?
If you don’t start with a correct grip any re-building you try to do is a waste of time. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice
Response:
David Laville said:If you don’t start with a correct grip any re-building you try to do is a waste of time. I totally agree with david.That is why the first thing taught in any golf instruction book is the grip. Hank Swanson
Response:
Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.))
Listen to someone who is a better golfer or better teacher than myself. My guess is that this wouldn’t work well – but I’m not the man to ask.
Response:
I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!).
I am deeply invested in "step by step" in which the core action of a successful golf SWING (as opposed to anything else, such as "hit" or hybrid thereof) is "lesson/job one!" - which is, simply, UNDERSTANDING the action of centrifugal release and how it is created. Then building your grip, stance, and other setup and swing protocols is dependent ON that core understanding so that the subtle adjustments and accommodations are in support of, instead of contrary to, that core action. Starting gradually with small swings in which this is DE RIGEUR is de rigeur, since if you haven’t the "genetic" makeup as a baby for something important needed in adulthood, you can’t graft it back into an adult swing and pretend that making it look real actually makes it real. In simple terms, it MUST be installed early on before other things are appended or you will be the same as the pupil in algebra III who never passed arithmetic in 1st grade! Good luck and good thinking! George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Bob: I thought I finished SLAP, too. I didn’t! I doubt that I ever will. Every time I open it, I find something else to work on. If Stefan is that serious about working on his game, I can’t think of a better book to start with. SLAP gives you more than the basics of the swing, and allows a person to work with an instructor more efficiently. Harlan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think your approach is correct for the long term but you will see a lot of days where you won’t be able to hit it out of your shadow. If you really are "driven", it’s possible you will reach the place of "your" maximum potential. It’s doubtful to me that anyone on this group will reach perfection. I’ve read a bunch of golf books in my golfing life. Just finished S.L.A.P. and I believe it has all the necessary information to build a solid repeatable golf swing. I’m going to rebuild myself using their stuff as a guide. — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
I understand where you’re coming from. I’m a beginner and believe in getting the basics right first and foremost. So I found a golf pro who also believes in teaching swing fundamentals and have been taking lessons from him about once every 2 weeks for the past 2 months. We started with the setup position. Then moved to the backswing. Now we’re working on the downswing – trying to get myself to swing from the inside to outside path. I can tell you that it is frustrating at times practising what I learnt on the driving range. This is because until I learn how to get to impact position properly, I still won’t strike the ball properly, and my ball flight will be poor. So for the past two months I have been practising what I learnt at the driving range regardless of how my ball flight goes and also regardless of how I strike the ball. It takes a lot of patience and determination to stick to this philosophy. I find myself sometimes just hitting the damn ball regardless of swing fundamentals just to strike the ball square and see it sail straight for once! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, I really like your comment. But I have to say what is my theory about the golf swing: I think that Ben Hogan, which maybe was the best swing analyzer in history – because he used so many years on swing analyzes, and because he was a great genious (IQ over 180), had a big opportunity of getting a nearly full understanding of his swing. I think thats why he could hit shots with such a stability. Today golfers have much more information to start with. Great golfers of history have told their secrets (maybe not all – and maybe not Hogan). But with todays information there is a very big chance to become an even better player – if there is talant and/or interest of learning "everything". The only thing that is against a person that gives everything to get his perfect golf swing like a "Ben Hogan"-swing, is first of all the years that is left until the physics give restrictions, and also what the golfer starts from. But most important is the "free" years, I think. I’m going to try my best. Let the future show what it gives. I think your approach is correct for the long term but you will see a lot of days where you won’t be able to hit it out of your shadow. If you really are "driven", it’s possible you will reach the place of "your" maximum potential. It’s doubtful to me that anyone on this group will reach perfection. I’ve read a bunch of golf books in my golfing life. Just finished S.L.A.P. and I believe it has all the necessary information to build a solid repeatable golf swing. I’m going to rebuild myself using their stuff as a guide. — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
Thanks Matt for this answer! I first wnat to say that I am not a beginner or unexperienced. I have analyzed the swing during my all years from I started to play 6 years ago. Its not very much – I know! But either way I can absolutely say that Im not a beginner or unexperienced about the golf swing. My golf handicap is 15.5, which I dont think is good at all. But actually if I had 5 or 25 in handicap – it should make no matter – I would today anyway with my knowledge try to change my swing by learning "step by step". regards Mr. Perfect Swing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would say that you are definitely better learning step by step. This is the method I believe they follow in the Golf Digest Schools, where I believe that they begin on the putting green, then chipping, pitching and onto the full swing. I believe that this was the method that Tigers daddy used to teach him, and he hasn’t turned out too bad a golfer. About 14 years ago, I had a huge slice, ball used to start straight down the middle of the fairway and then slice way over to the opposite side of the next fairway running parrallel to the hole I was playing. I had read numerous books, and I was in all the correct positions but I had a 50 yard slice. I visited several pro’s in the local area (Stoke-on-Trent, England), none who were any good, was told it was my takeaway etc., corrected those faults, but still had a huge slice. Wasted alot of money in the process, then I was recommended the Pro at Trentham Golf course, Stoke, England, named Martin Hall (Now teaching in Florida, USA, ranked this year by Golf Digest 19th. best golf teacher in USA) who videoed me and told me that he couldn’t spot anything from the video, my swing looked fine, I had a timing problem, but we agreed that he would rebuild my swing. My hand action through the hitting area was too late. Within a matter of a month or so I was playing with a draw. If anyone lives in Florida, I can recommend Martin Hall as a coach, but I would say that for a beginer or inexperienced golfer, learning step by step is the best, but for a really experienced golfer (single figure handicap) the fault fixes will probably suffice. But I think it is really important to find a pro who uses drills as a teaching method to ingrain good habits in your swing, and explains the purpose of the drills. Incidentally, I thing ‘Swing like a pro’ is an exceelent book. Matt I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!).
Response:
I would say that you are definitely better learning step by step. This is the method I believe they follow in the Golf Digest Schools, where I believe that they begin on the putting green, then chipping, pitching and onto the full swing. I believe that this was the method that Tigers daddy used to teach him, and he hasn’t turned out too bad a golfer. About 14 years ago, I had a huge slice, ball used to start straight down the middle of the fairway and then slice way over to the opposite side of the next fairway running parrallel to the hole I was playing. I had read numerous books, and I was in all the correct positions but I had a 50 yard slice. I visited several pro’s in the local area (Stoke-on-Trent, England), none who were any good, was told it was my takeaway etc., corrected those faults, but still had a huge slice. Wasted alot of money in the process, then I was recommended the Pro at Trentham Golf course, Stoke, England, named Martin Hall (Now teaching in Florida, USA, ranked this year by Golf Digest 19th. best golf teacher in USA) who videoed me and told me that he couldn’t spot anything from the video, my swing looked fine, I had a timing problem, but we agreed that he would rebuild my swing. My hand action through the hitting area was too late. Within a matter of a month or so I was playing with a draw. If anyone lives in Florida, I can recommend Martin Hall as a coach, but I would say that for a beginer or inexperienced golfer, learning step by step is the best, but for a really experienced golfer (single figure handicap) the fault fixes will probably suffice. But I think it is really important to find a pro who uses drills as a teaching method to ingrain good habits in your swing, and explains the purpose of the drills. Incidentally, I thing ‘Swing like a pro’ is an exceelent book. Matt
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!).
Response:
I thought that a persons grip is part of the swing. If your grip is off, your swing will be off. I do realize that you will have a bad day from time to time.
Response:
No Carl, that is not really true I think. You have right in that the grip is a part of the swing. But what I am trying to do is learning the TOTAL swing. And a way of learning the total swing – which I mean is my own perfect swing – is to learn as fast as I can learn, which with my thoughts today means first of all the correct swing, then a grip that fits that swing perfectly. Isnt that I nice thought to forget about the never ending thoughts about the grip, and after the swing is there just to find a grip that matches?
I thought that a persons grip is part of the swing. If your grip is off, your swing will be off. I do realize that you will have a bad day from time to time.
Response:
I think your approach is correct for the long term but you will see a lot of days where you won’t be able to hit it out of your shadow. If you really are "driven", it’s possible you will reach the place of "your" maximum potential. It’s doubtful to me that anyone on this group will reach perfection. I’ve read a bunch of golf books in my golfing life. Just finished S.L.A.P. and I believe it has all the necessary information to build a solid repeatable golf swing. I’m going to rebuild myself using their stuff as a guide. — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
Bob, I really like your comment. But I have to say what is my theory about the golf swing: I think that Ben Hogan, which maybe was the best swing analyzer in history – because he used so many years on swing analyzes, and because he was a great genious (IQ over 180), had a big opportunity of getting a nearly full understanding of his swing. I think thats why he could hit shots with such a stability. Today golfers have much more information to start with. Great golfers of history have told their secrets (maybe not all – and maybe not Hogan). But with todays information there is a very big chance to become an even better player – if there is talant and/or interest of learning "everything". The only thing that is against a person that gives everything to get his perfect golf swing like a "Ben Hogan"-swing, is first of all the years that is left until the physics give restrictions, and also what the golfer starts from. But most important is the "free" years, I think. I’m going to try my best. Let the future show what it gives. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think your approach is correct for the long term but you will see a lot of days where you won’t be able to hit it out of your shadow. If you really are "driven", it’s possible you will reach the place of "your" maximum potential. It’s doubtful to me that anyone on this group will reach perfection. I’ve read a bunch of golf books in my golfing life. Just finished S.L.A.P. and I believe it has all the necessary information to build a solid repeatable golf swing. I’m going to rebuild myself using their stuff as a guide. — Bob Dye Still Hacking Away Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
Howard, this does not mean I want to start with the waggle (which I believe is very important). It does mean that I want to start with the setup (not grip though! Tell me if this is very bad, or maybe a new way of thinking please…(I can tell you why I want to complete with the grip afterwards.)) After the setup I want to go on with the first part of the back swing. Then with the rest of the back swing. Then with the first part of the down swing (down to the hips with the right elbow for a right hand player). Then to the ball contact. Then the rest of the swing. After all these excercises (with perfection) I want to go on with the waggle – not before! best regards Stefan (alias "The Perfect Swing") – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!). What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?
Response:
I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!).
Response:
I have today chosen between two ways of learning the golf swing – 1. by fault fixes, and 2. by learning step by step. I chose 2. step by step, which means that I’m gonna learn each step totally before I go on to next step. Are there anyone that have learnt this way that can tell me some experience of that way of learning? Are there any other interesting comments about this? (Note that I’m extremely serious about swing analyzes. I’m gonna work as much as is needed to get my "perfect" swing. Note also that I seem to have no talent (shown today!).
What does this mean – you will perfect your waggle, and then spend your next month working on take away, then your back swing… ?