Question:
If the claims of some here were left unchecked, this forum would become a breeding ground for every charlatan and snake oil merchant out there. Have you checked other forums out there? It is only because of the Laville’s and others like him here that have prevented RSG from going the same route.
Good point. Some Dalton McCrock vbendors…McCrockies? have been spamming USK mercilessly the last few days. Of course, anyone who buys into it is an idiot, and deserves to be separated from their money, but it would be fun for me to see some Brit with some intestinal fortitude stand up to the clowns. Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Response:
It pains me to admit this but Eric is dead on straight in his analysis of David Laville’s teaching, in contrast to others. He has the ability to translate difficult concepts into readable application. He is the only poster I deliberately search for. Consequently, applying his plain truth has helped me shave some strokes and enhanced my understanding of the golf swing. I’m further pained, given my disdain re. his pompous attitude, to admit that Mike Dalecki is correct in his analysis of the whole GH controversy. When I entered RSG 10 months ago, I too was appalled at the treatment George received. Yet….I learned that much of it was deserved. Hang around…..you’ll come to the same conclusion. -Greg
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nuno, I used to view Laville as a trouble maker and instigator on this forum until i took the blinders off and really took the time to get to know him and really read what he has to say. DL loves the game and believes that the time-proven fundamentals and hard work are best way to play a better game. He has studied every short-cut method out there and in person he can talk for hours about all of them. When David speaks out against a given approach to the game, especially when someone proclaims a magic system or magic move, he speaks out, not to be a troll or instigator, but with the intent of preventing someone interestied in learning or improving from going down the wrong path. I am through discussing GH and PI, but David and i once had some heated discussions about PI and Natural Golf. Being totally naive about golf instruction, i believed there was a quick way out there. David pounced on me and i became defensive back. Had i of listened, i would be playing a whole lot better today, because all these "systems" do is sidetrack you. You get some short term gratification from them but they do not hold up in the long run. When DL speaks up, i think he deserves to be listened to and i respect his opinion. IF you or others don’t, fine. Just skip over the message and move on, without attacking the messenger or trying to analyze his character or intents.. Laville offers a balance here and is a reality check for the uninformed and naive.. If the claims of some here were left unchecked, this forum would become a breeding ground for every charlatan and snake oil merchant out there. Have you checked other forums out there? It is only because of the Laville’s and others like him here that have prevented RSG from going the same route. eric
Response:
I just can’t believe that. To me DL has a very clear agenda with this GH saga. One I don’t entirely agree with. The problem is that like so many other discussions in Usenet, people take them personally and/or seriously.
Other than to expose inconsistencies, I have never seen an agenda. This is a discussion group. You want to say you changed your view, etc., that’s fine. But GH aruges that anyone who disagrees with his teachings is a heretic. He *NEVER* argues on point; it’s always some sort of misunderstanding. We have had these sorts of debates where people did argue on point, DL v scottrburr stands out here as an example. Hibbard wants to be seen as an authority on something that he is not, and thus he will be challenged by all. His grip is as dumb as his left arm measuring device. The fact that all he can do in defense is name drop speaks for itself. If you don’t see that, fine with me, but I do, and I am in fact free to state such on this forum. You don’t want to discuss. Fine with me. You want to try to force me to not challnge GH? Dream on. You want to take this seriously, or you want me to? Dream on. If Hibbard thinks this stuff is meaningful, that’s his delusion. Anyone who buys Hibbard as a knowledgable golf instructor is a "honma"…now that’s a metaphor! Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Response:
quote): One is too many!
C’mon! Grumpy old sod… 
<just jokin Hey, if I did all that there would be scant chance of doing the foot-in- mouth dance. Now, what would be the fun in that? :D I wouldn’t know. I’m constantly doing that dance. Just an offer of advice from someone who’s been there….too often. 
Welcome to the club… — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
But I don’t believe they’re out of context or misquoted. I don’t know where you get that from. Well, when one comments that someone else’s swing theory is wrong quoting as example a movement that is part of a drill, what do you expect me to conclude?
That it’s not possible to do (and Nuno, I’ve seen the video, and David is right). That a thorough examination of the theory in cause has been carried out?
If you identify one part of a theory that is incorrect or impossible, then the rest of the theory is irrelevant. The theory as a whole is not workable. You don’t know the whole story. Yeah, there’s bad blood there for sure. But that should go somewhere else.
Well, I don’t know why. When someone offers up swing theory that is demonstrably wrong, it seems to me that one valuable element of this forum is to point out those errors. That’s what’s being done. Well, you must ask yourself, Nuno, where everybody else gets it from. It doesn’t come from thin air, so it does seem that there’s a foundation for it, doesn’t it? It’s not everybody else. I can’t find concrete evidence in google. Not more than anyone else selling stuff here. Be it services, clubs, whatever. Possibly my fault, will keep looking.
What I was trying to do is point out that unless you think there’s some sort of mass psychosis going on here, that there must be basis for what you see. One thing I’ll say: if I wanted to buy custom clubs, I’d ask here first for advice. Then filter the stuff I didn’t agree with. Same for services. Don’t have the slightest problem with that being available from here.
I think that’s the only way you can use RSG meaningfully. The same goes for swing advice. If I wanted to pour through tons of spam and pop-up advertising, I’d use the WWW. At least here I get ten opinions for each question. It’s up to me and me alone to make up my mind on how to proceed. I like that.
I do, too. And if one is bright enough, they can, over time, see the inconsistencies in some people’s "advice," and recognize that it really is a house of cards. Nor me toward you. I hope it’s apparent that there’s more here than meets the eye, and like others, I’ll bet you get tired, after a time, of seeing GH dodge questions, contradict himself, claim malice on the part of people who dare to question his "expertise," and so on. Oh, I got tired already. Got his book and videos. It’s a hard slog to understand the stuff due to his style of writing and exposing ideas. In my case: once it "clicked", it worked a treat. I made him clearly aware of my opinion. But I don’t confuse style of presentation with content. His content so far has worked well for me. The day it stops working, I’ll re-examine my options. Like with anything else. Don’t have the slightest problem with that.
Well, that’s good for you. I damned near caused myself injury trying to do what he suggested. And yes, I’ve seen the video and have a copy of the book (I didn’t buy it, believe me). The approach he takes is that it seems almost *everything* is emphasized, bolded, italicized, capitalized, and so on. For a supposedly simple method, one must wonder why so much requires so much emphasis. I’ve finally concluded, after a long period of time watching the contradictory commentary he puts out, that he’s like the 1000 monkeys writing for 1000 years on 1000 typewriters: Eventually, they’ll reproduce Shakespeare. Same with GH. He says so much that occasionally he’ll say something that actually works in the context of someone’s game. They think, then, that he knows what he’s talking about, when in fact, he’s just spewing a lot of stuff in hoping some will stick. I’m glad you found something in his stuff that worked for you. I think you’re one of the lucky ones. Mike Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean! GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/ RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
Response:
(and I quote): – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (and I quote): Ya got that right! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=annika1980+group:alt.personals.gay&… http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wrestling+author:annika1980&hl=en&l… Hehehe! Now, THAT is an interesting use of google. Purely for research purposes, of course. 
Oh, almost forgot. A bit of wimsy: http://members.optushome.com.au/tilsan/tarzan.jpg — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
The snake oil peddler is NOT Laville, but then how would you know that? You have two months of experience with this ng. Laville sells nothing, neither goods nor services. Check out who does, and what is to be gained, monetarily. I know. I hope it stays that way. One seller here is enough.
One is too many! GH has been set up with a news group of his own, "has been setup"? That somehow doesn’t sound right…
Only if taken in a negative context. He’s been given a news group of his own without his having to anything….better? He shows his real agenda by not going there to peddle his wares. Hell, he could SPAM the hell out of it. Wouldn’t it be nice if he, DL, glfnaz, et al would use alt.p.i to do their back-and-forth discussions? Then, anyone interested could tune in. No problem with your know-it-all attitude about golf here; everyone has an opinion. I know. That’s why I like this place. If every1 here thought the same, the place would be as boring as the office! I came to golf to shoo away boredom. However, stick to what you know, then do some research before inserting your foot in your mouth. Hey, if I did all that there would be scant chance of doing the foot-in- mouth dance. Now, what would be the fun in that? :D
I wouldn’t know. I’m constantly doing that dance. Just an offer of advice from someone who’s been there….too often. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.
Response:
(and I quote): Ya got that right! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=annika1980+group:alt.personals.gay&… http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wrestling+author:annika1980&hl=en&l…
Hehehe! Now, THAT is an interesting use of google. Purely for research purposes, of course. — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
But I don’t believe they’re out of context or misquoted. I don’t know where you get that from.
Well, when one comments that someone else’s swing theory is wrong quoting as example a movement that is part of a drill, what do you expect me to conclude? That a thorough examination of the theory in cause has been carried out? You don’t know the whole story.
Yeah, there’s bad blood there for sure. But that should go somewhere else. Well, you must ask yourself, Nuno, where everybody else gets it from. It doesn’t come from thin air, so it does seem that there’s a foundation for it, doesn’t it?
It’s not everybody else. I can’t find concrete evidence in google. Not more than anyone else selling stuff here. Be it services, clubs, whatever. Possibly my fault, will keep looking. One thing I’ll say: if I wanted to buy custom clubs, I’d ask here first for advice. Then filter the stuff I didn’t agree with. Same for services. Don’t have the slightest problem with that being available from here. If I wanted to pour through tons of spam and pop-up advertising, I’d use the WWW. At least here I get ten opinions for each question. It’s up to me and me alone to make up my mind on how to proceed. I like that. Nor me toward you. I hope it’s apparent that there’s more here than meets the eye, and like others, I’ll bet you get tired, after a time, of seeing GH dodge questions, contradict himself, claim malice on the part of people who dare to question his "expertise," and so on.
Oh, I got tired already. Got his book and videos. It’s a hard slog to understand the stuff due to his style of writing and exposing ideas. In my case: once it "clicked", it worked a treat. I made him clearly aware of my opinion. But I don’t confuse style of presentation with content. His content so far has worked well for me. The day it stops working, I’ll re-examine my options. Like with anything else. Don’t have the slightest problem with that. — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
quote): You have no idea of the history here, but you bluster, call names and generally make a fool of yourself.
Hmmmm, not really. Can read google too. And long before that, Deja. And long before that, Compuserve. Not exactly what I’d call a newbie on- line. As for calling names: I never, ever do so without being called them first. Not that I’m aware, anyway. But I don’t profess the school of "show the other cheek": if anyone calls me something, they better be ready for the return. It’s a two way street. As for making a fool of myself, opinions vary. The wife reckons that’s a constant. So does my dog. But he wags the tail when I feed him, so there! <no, she doesn’t wag the tail. I wish… The snake oil peddler is NOT Laville, but then how would you know that? You have two months of experience with this ng. Laville sells nothing, neither goods nor services. Check out who does, and what is to be gained, monetarily.
I know. I hope it stays that way. One seller here is enough. Where is it noted that a newbie should say who belongs where?
Newbie? Maybe here. GH has been set up with a news group of his own,
"has been setup"? That somehow doesn’t sound right… No problem with your know-it-all attitude about golf here; everyone has an opinion.
I know. That’s why I like this place. If every1 here thought the same, the place would be as boring as the office! I came to golf to shoo away boredom. However, stick to what you know, then do some research before inserting your foot in your mouth.
Hey, if I did all that there would be scant chance of doing the foot-in- mouth dance. Now, what would be the fun in that? :D — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
quote): I don’t see it that way, Nuno. GH posts some theory, DL and other ask for clarification, or dispute the theory. Later on GH posts something which contradicts what he said before and is questioned on it. Yeah, but the "later on" seems to be like two years? That sux.
Doesn’t it? You’d think his theories would be more consistent than that, or at least that he’d be able to apply them more consistently. And Nuno, don’t assume that because you know of one instance, that this is all there is. He’s contradicted himself time and again, so much so that one must wonder if he’s just throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks. I noticed that you were on DL’s case about him quoting old google posts, yet GH di the same yesterday and I didn’t see anything from you slamming GH for the same thing. Yeah, DL did it repeatedly and out of context. IIRC, GH did it to defend himself from an accusation that he never had said something or other. Fine by me. My bone is not with the quotations themselves, although I don’t like the approach. It’s with making them out of context or mis-quoted.
But I don’t believe they’re out of context or misquoted. I don’t know where you get that from. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not going to get into a long drawn out thread on GH – it’s been done before and they go on forever. Being usenet, opinions are like assholes – we all have one. Ain’t it wonderful? I mean, if we all didn’t have them – the opinions! – then we’d all be driving Volvos. Or something… ;) <not that there is anything wrong with Volvos! and DL and anyone else with contrary views would argue it in that forum. I just can’t believe that. To me DL has a very clear agenda with this GH saga. One I don’t entirely agree with. The problem is that like so many other discussions in Usenet, people take them personally and/or seriously.
You don’t know the whole story. Hey, we’re all virtual in here. Let’s not let that affect our behaviour as human beings. Look at Annika. Now, *there* is some1 who obviously enjoys a virtual presence! However, as it stands, it seems that GH is reluctant to post on alt.g.pi, for whatever reasons, so the traffic is in this group instead. Yup, that also sux. I’m not yet sure about GH’s responsibility in spamming, can’t make my mind from google.
Well, you must ask yourself, Nuno, where everybody else gets it from. It doesn’t come from thin air, so it does seem that there’s a foundation for it, doesn’t it? Nyways, no hard feelings here. Let it never be said I bear a grudge. Even to DL. K?
Nor me toward you. I hope it’s apparent that there’s more here than meets the eye, and like others, I’ll bet you get tired, after a time, of seeing GH dodge questions, contradict himself, claim malice on the part of people who dare to question his "expertise," and so on. Mike Mike Dalecki I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean! GCA Accredited Clubmaker. Web Site: http://www.dalecki.net/clubdoctor/ RSG-Wisconsin 2002 Report/Pics: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2002/part1.html RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim
Response:
You see David, the only ones here that should go to a.g.I should be Laville &Co. They are the ones with interminable threads of bullshit quotations and all sorts of innuendo. They start them. Then they blame everyone else when someone raps their knuckles. And if so much as they feel threatened, the accusations of trolling are like summer rain. Let’s not mention the fake trolls.
You know, for someone that has just come on board here, you certainly have all of the answers. You have no idea of the history here, but you bluster, call names and generally make a fool of yourself. It’s really a typical Usenet pattern. Used by either snake oil peddlers or trolls themselves.
The snake oil peddler is NOT Laville, but then how would you know that? You have two months of experience with this ng. Laville sells nothing, neither goods nor services. Check out who does, and what is to be gained, monetarily. Why don’t they start those threads in that NG? That’s the place for them. Not here. I’m sure they would be well received over there. By all the x-posters. Heck, what am I saying: they SHOULD x-post the stuff there. Then it would be fitting to the trolls they are.
Where is it noted that a newbie should say who belongs where? GH has been set up with a news group of his own, so that all of his followers can go there to hear him expound. But that isn’t going to happen because there ain’t a lot of them, and he would rather stay here (even though he has denigrated rec.sport.golf in other forums). Why? Because this ng is where there a lot of newbies come, and they might believe his convoluted ideas, and buy his wares. No problem with your know-it-all attitude about golf here; everyone has an opinion. However, stick to what you know, then do some research before inserting your foot in your mouth. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.
Response:
Hey, we’re all virtual in here. Let’s not let that affect our behaviour as human beings. Look at Annika. Now, *there* is some1 who obviously enjoys a virtual presence!
Ya got that right! http://groups.google.com/groups?q=annika1980+group:alt.personals.gay&… http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wrestling+author:annika1980&hl=en&l…
Response:
Nuno, I used to view Laville as a trouble maker and instigator on this forum until i took the blinders off and really took the time to get to know him and really read what he has to say. DL loves the game and believes that the time-proven fundamentals and hard work are best way to play a better game. He has studied every short-cut method out there and in person he can talk for hours about all of them. When David speaks out against a given approach to the game, especially when someone proclaims a magic system or magic move, he speaks out, not to be a troll or instigator, but with the intent of preventing someone interestied in learning or improving from going down the wrong path. I am through discussing GH and PI, but David and i once had some heated discussions about PI and Natural Golf. Being totally naive about golf instruction, i believed there was a quick way out there. David pounced on me and i became defensive back. Had i of listened, i would be playing a whole lot better today, because all these "systems" do is sidetrack you. You get some short term gratification from them but they do not hold up in the long run. When DL speaks up, i think he deserves to be listened to and i respect his opinion. IF you or others don’t, fine. Just skip over the message and move on, without attacking the messenger or trying to analyze his character or intents.. Laville offers a balance here and is a reality check for the uninformed and naive.. If the claims of some here were left unchecked, this forum would become a breeding ground for every charlatan and snake oil merchant out there. Have you checked other forums out there? It is only because of the Laville’s and others like him here that have prevented RSG from going the same route. eric
Response:
quote): You and your "friends" who have steadfastly banded together, and no doubt sworn blood oaths, should go over to alt.golf.perfect-impact, where you can discuss your hero ad nauseum. You see David, the only ones here that should go to a.g.I should be Laville &Co. They are the ones with interminable threads of bullshit quotations and all sorts of innuendo.
[...snip for brevity...] I don’t see it that way, Nuno. GH posts some theory, DL and other ask for clarification, or dispute the theory. Later on GH posts something which contradicts what he said before and is questioned on it. I noticed that you were on DL’s case about him quoting old google posts, yet GH di the same yesterday and I didn’t see anything from you slamming GH for the same thing. I’m not going to get into a long drawn out thread on GH – it’s been done before and they go on forever. Being usenet, opinions are like assholes – we all have one. If GH’s acolytes and GH would post more on alt.g.pi, and discuss his stuff there, then I am sure that is where it would stay, and DL and anyone else with contrary views would argue it in that forum. However, as it stands, it seems that GH is reluctant to post on alt.g.pi, for whatever reasons, so the traffic is in this group instead. — David RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca
Response:
quote): I don’t see it that way, Nuno. GH posts some theory, DL and other ask for clarification, or dispute the theory. Later on GH posts something which contradicts what he said before and is questioned on it.
Yeah, but the "later on" seems to be like two years? That sux. I noticed that you were on DL’s case about him quoting old google posts, yet GH di the same yesterday and I didn’t see anything from you slamming GH for the same thing.
Yeah, DL did it repeatedly and out of context. IIRC, GH did it to defend himself from an accusation that he never had said something or other. Fine by me. My bone is not with the quotations themselves, although I don’t like the approach. It’s with making them out of context or mis-quoted. I’m not going to get into a long drawn out thread on GH – it’s been done before and they go on forever. Being usenet, opinions are like assholes – we all have one.
Ain’t it wonderful? I mean, if we all didn’t have them – the opinions! – then we’d all be driving Volvos. Or something… ;) <not that there is anything wrong with Volvos! and DL and anyone else with contrary views would argue it in that forum.
I just can’t believe that. To me DL has a very clear agenda with this GH saga. One I don’t entirely agree with. The problem is that like so many other discussions in Usenet, people take them personally and/or seriously. Hey, we’re all virtual in here. Let’s not let that affect our behaviour as human beings. Look at Annika. Now, *there* is some1 who obviously enjoys a virtual presence! However, as it stands, it seems that GH is reluctant to post on alt.g.pi, for whatever reasons, so the traffic is in this group instead.
Yup, that also sux. I’m not yet sure about GH’s responsibility in spamming, can’t make my mind from google. Nyways, no hard feelings here. Let it never be said I bear a grudge. Even to DL. K? — Cheers Nuno Souto
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i have never posted here before today but felt someone had to. I am tired of reading all the crap some of you write about Perfect Impact and the disrespect to Mr. Hibbard. You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker or whatever terms you throw. Given the success i have had with Perfect Impact, i am tired of reading the negative reviews and insults over the last few months. Mr. Hibbard has done nothing more but produce a work that is easily understood and implemented. What scares many of you is that it is so easily implemented. A lot easier than the material you hold so sacred There are a few of us out there that thank Mr. Hibbard for all his unselfish contributions. We have banded together and will defend him from this day forward. It is simply not right to try and knock down someone who has tried so hard to help golfers become the best they can be. This forum should not be used to discredit the works of someone as knowledgeable and dedicated as Mr. Hibbard. Abe and friends
You and your "friends" who have steadfastly banded together, and no doubt sworn blood oaths, should go over to alt.golf.perfect-impact, where you can discuss your hero ad nauseum. And if you are all good, and I mean *really* good, perhaps your hero might even deign to post there too. — David RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members?rollcall=sneddond email: dsneddon AT cogeco DOT ca
Response:
quote): You and your "friends" who have steadfastly banded together, and no doubt sworn blood oaths, should go over to alt.golf.perfect-impact, where you can discuss your hero ad nauseum.
You see David, the only ones here that should go to a.g.I should be Laville &Co. They are the ones with interminable threads of bullshit quotations and all sorts of innuendo. They start them. Then they blame everyone else when someone raps their knuckles. And if so much as they feel threatened, the accusations of trolling are like summer rain. Let’s not mention the fake trolls. It’s really a typical Usenet pattern. Used by either snake oil peddlers or trolls themselves. Why don’t they start those threads in that NG? That’s the place for them. Not here. I’m sure they would be well received over there. By all the x-posters. Heck, what am I saying: they SHOULD x-post the stuff there. Then it would be fitting to the trolls they are. — Cheers Nuno Souto
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You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker Then prove it by giving it a rest. No one here cares. Randy
And Randy speaks for all of us ’cause hes the head honcho of RSG. http://RandB_Club.tripod.com/
Response:
You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker or whatever terms you throw
I’m sorry – we forgot to add the word "obvious". You’re an OBVIOUS toll. Since it is an anti Hibbard troll, many people play along with you. But no matter how attractive the target – feeding trolls is not a productive way of spending our time.
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No one here cares. Randy
I beg to differ. As much as everyone here posts about GH and PI, It sure as hell seems that someone does care about it. matt
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No one here cares. Randy I beg to differ. As much as everyone here posts about GH and PI, It sure as hell seems that someone does care about it.
Not so much really caring as the stuff can be outrageous, and begs a response. It’s all for fun for most of us. Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
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You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker
Then prove it by giving it a rest. No one here cares. Randy
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i have never posted here before today but felt someone had to. I am tired of reading all the crap some of you write about Perfect Impact and the disrespect to Mr. Hibbard. You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker or whatever terms you throw.
There hasn’t been any crap in weeks. Until yours of course. Troll.
Response:
i have never posted here before today but felt someone had to. I am tired of reading all the crap some of you write about Perfect Impact and the disrespect to Mr. Hibbard. You are wrong in that i am trying to act as a troll or trouble maker or whatever terms you throw. Given the success i have had with Perfect Impact, i am tired of reading the negative reviews and insults over the last few months. Mr. Hibbard has done nothing more but produce a work that is easily understood and implemented. What scares many of you is that it is so easily implemented. A lot easier than the material you hold so sacred There are a few of us out there that thank Mr. Hibbard for all his unselfish contributions. We have banded together and will defend him from this day forward. It is simply not right to try and knock down someone who has tried so hard to help golfers become the best they can be. This forum should not be used to discredit the works of someone as knowledgeable and dedicated as Mr. Hibbard. Abe and friends