Question:
I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. I made more improvement on swing plane by swinging indoors in front of a mirror than by range work. Much more. -Don M "traded my slice for a hook, that’s good, right?"
Go hi-tech… get a camcorder and a small tv, place the tv down by the ball so you can see it realtime, put the camcorder anywhere you want it… including overhead looking straight down on your right shoulder and foot. You can now see your swing from any angle while keeping your head more or less on the ball (tv).
Response:
Haney, suggests that the shaft angle at address stays constant. During the backswing as the rt elbow folds and the club is elevated, he believes that the angle stays constant and therefore the low end of the shaft points outside the target line. I can’t see why he would say this…is it in one of his books? Do you ahve a reference?
His book "The Only Golf Lesson You’ll Ever Need" page 45. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
" Swing plane is determined simply by putting your hands and the clubshaft in the right place at the top of the swing. Study any good swings to see EXACTLY WHERE THOSE TWO THINGS ARE – THE LEFT HAND, and the clubshaft, and the rest is automatic. Go to the right place there with hand and shaft and just swing down with left hand. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Well, I agree that if you can put your hands and the club in the right place at the top of the swing you have won about 90% of the battle. But you still have time to screw it up.
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<< Well, I agree that if you can put your hands and the club in the right place at the top of the swing you have won about 90% of the battle. But you still have time to screw it up. But you’ll have to work a heck of a lot harder to do it. Best, Ken
Response:
A follow-up question regarding the Leadbetter LaserGuide (which I’ve used a bit): The preferred plane is not parallel to the target line on the downswing. Rather, it is coming significantly from the inside. If I’m following the conversation correctly thus far, that would seem to make sense as a flatter downswing plane would indicate coming from the inside more. Someone mentioned that Leadbetter works with stronger players who use more lower body in their swing. That tends to be so this makes a bit of sense. Using the plane board for the backswing portion makes 100% sense too. I agree that if you can get the portion of the swing from takeaway to clubshaft parallel to the ground at waist high then everything does fall nicely into place. However, it doesn’t seem for me that it would be wise to use a plane board for the downswing. Does that sound right? Anyway, thanks for all the great feedback. I really appreciate it and look forward to any other thoughts that people have on swing plane.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). To be a little more precise the backswing actually uses two planes. The club starts back on the plane of the shaft and when it gets to hip high it shifts to a more upright plane. So using a plane board would be hard to accommodate both planes in the backswing. If you decide to use a plane board set it for the shaft plane at address because once you get the club moving on this initial plane the rest usually falls into place. What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there? Go to EBay and you can get a laser pointer with shipping for under 4 bucks. Tape it to the butt of your club, find a straight line to trace and you have a laser device. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance).
To be a little more precise the backswing actually uses two planes. The club starts back on the plane of the shaft and when it gets to hip high it shifts to a more upright plane. So using a plane board would be hard to accommodate both planes in the backswing. If you decide to use a plane board set it for the shaft plane at address because once you get the club moving on this initial plane the rest usually falls into place. What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
Go to EBay and you can get a laser pointer with shipping for under 4 bucks. Tape it to the butt of your club, find a straight line to trace and you have a laser device. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there? As Tim eluded to, the pros are all on-plane coming into the ball…on of the three imperatives. Any time one end of the shaft points at the target line (base line) the club is on-plane. Plane ANGLE, or pitch, does not matter. You’ve give one definition of swing plane. And in general I do agree with it. However several respected teachers vary from that model.
I didn’t say you should be on-plane throughout the duration of the entire swing…I just gave a definition on being on-plane in brevity. Ledbetter, teaches that 1/2 way back, that the shaft points to a position 1/2 way between target line and toes line. His rational is that strong players, his most common pupil, flatten the plane back shalloweer by way of a stronger lower body move on the downswing.
Yes, he does. Good reasoning…but, they MUST flatten that angle on the downswing to hit a solid shot. Haney, suggests that the shaft angle at address stays constant. During the backswing as the rt elbow folds and the club is elevated, he believes that the angle stays constant and therefore the low end of the shaft points outside the target line.
I can’t see why he would say this…is it in one of his books? Do you ahve a reference? If you swing as you say he advises people to swing like, then your club wouldn’t get above shoulder height. And if the clubs points outside the target line, it better get back on plane coming into impact. It has to. It is imperative, one of the three. His prized pupil, O’Meara doesn’t follow this model in practice, although Kelli Kuehene does.
O’Meara wouldn’t have any success with that model. Kelli probably doesn’t swing like that either. ragman http://ragman.iboardplus.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
1. Stand with the sun directly behind your back and swing your club back and forth with the shadow of the club making a straight line perpindicular to your body somewhere near your neck….. 2. Do this a lot….. me
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any time one end of the shaft points at the target line (base line) the club is on-plane. Plane ANGLE, or pitch, does not matter. You’ve give one definition of swing plane. And in general I do agree with it. However several respected teachers vary from that model. I didn’t say you should be on-plane throughout the duration of the entire swing…I just gave a definition on being on-plane in brevity. Ledbetter, teaches that 1/2 way back, that the shaft points to a position 1/2 way between target line and toes line. His rational is that strong players, his most common pupil, flatten the plane back shalloweer by way of a stronger lower body move on the downswing. Yes, he does. Good reasoning…but, they MUST flatten that angle on the downswing to hit a solid shot. Haney, suggests that the shaft angle at address stays constant. During the backswing as the rt elbow folds and the club is elevated, he believes that the angle stays constant and therefore the low end of the shaft points outside the target line. I can’t see why he would say this…is it in one of his books? Do you ahve a reference?
" The only golf lesson you’ll ever need"–his book–.pgs. 43-50 If you swing as you say he advises people to swing like, then your club wouldn’t get above shoulder height.
Sure it can, it’s simply parallel to the original shaft angle at address, yet higher. And if the clubs points outside the target line, it better get back on plane coming into impact. It has to. It is imperative, one of the three.
The rt elbow un-folds, lowering the angle back onto original address / shaft plane. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – His prized pupil, O’Meara doesn’t follow this model in practice, although Kelli Kuehene does. O’Meara wouldn’t have any success with that model. Kelli probably doesn’t swing like that either. ragman http://ragman.iboardplus.com
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there? As Tim eluded to, the pros are all on-plane coming into the ball…on of the three imperatives. Any time one end of the shaft points at the target line (base line) the club is on-plane. Plane ANGLE, or pitch, does not matter.
Swing plane is determined simply by putting your hands and the clubshaft in the right place at the top of the swing. Study any good swings to see EXACTLY WHERE THOSE TWO THINGS ARE – THE LEFT HAND, and the clubshaft, and the rest is automatic. Go to the right place there with hand and shaft and just swing down with left hand. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there? As Tim eluded to, the pros are all on-plane coming into the ball…on of the three imperatives. Any time one end of the shaft points at the target line (base line) the club is on-plane. Plane ANGLE, or pitch, does not matter.
You’ve give one definition of swing plane. And in general I do agree with it. However several respected teachers vary from that model. Ledbetter, teaches that 1/2 way back, that the shaft points to a position 1/2 way between target line and toes line. His rational is that strong players, his most common pupil, flatten the plane back shalloweer by way of a stronger lower body move on the downswing. Haney, suggests that the shaft angle at address stays constant. During the backswing as the rt elbow folds and the club is elevated, he believes that the angle stays constant and therefore the low end of the shaft points outside the target line. His prized pupil, O’Meara doesn’t follow this model in practice, although Kelli Kuehene does.
Response:
It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
As Tim eluded to, the pros are all on-plane coming into the ball…on of the three imperatives. Any time one end of the shaft points at the target line (base line) the club is on-plane. Plane ANGLE, or pitch, does not matter.
Response:
It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all.
Swing plane is the most important aspect of the golf swing. Ultimately is doesn’t matter how you get there, but when the club is on plane, many things are taken care of in the golf swing. Look at many pros with different swings, the common factor is they are all on plane coming into the ball. Furyk, Ray Floyd, Trevino, Allen Doyle, all guys with non-conventional swings, at impact they look like any of the pros with "conventional swings" as far as swing plane is concerned. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
Hard work with a video camera. Laser things are useless. good luck.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. I made more improvement on swing plane by swinging indoors in front of a mirror than by range work. Much more. The swing plane is set primarily by your grip. If you setup with soft hands and soft arms during the backswing, the swing plane will probably be pretty close. Even if it is too steep or laid off, you can bring it back to the proper path if your arms are not too tense. Gravity and centrifugal forces work wonders. The swing plane usually becomes too steep when we overpower what is natural. Get your grip and setup right, then ensure the club is aligned with the target and the toe pointing up when it is horizontal going back– if you have those right, the plane all the way to the top and down will be close enough unless you are doing something really wierd. larry
are you the same Larry who said only a month ago that advice on RSG is from losers and the only good advice was to "see a pro?" Puttster
Response:
It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range.
Take your video camera to the range, and look at it between swings? I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
The plane of the shaft from ground to hip high is actually pretty close for both the backswing and downswing through impact. Most people are much more grossly off than that, with their downswing plane being too steep and angled out to in, so practicing with some kind of plane board for the bottom half of the swing is not that bad of an idea. You can make one out of cardboard that won’t hurt you too bad if you hit it. If you are past that point, though, it’s probably best to stick with video or a laser pointer. Some other good props are a box or board laid parallel to the target line just outside the ball. My instructor used a very thin branch of a tree stuck at an angle into an overturned range ball basket. The goal was to stay underneath the branch on both the backswing and on the downswing. He also would setup set up things like headcovers and balls on the follow-through side of the ball to make sure I wasn’t bringing the club inside too quickly after impact.
Response:
What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?
A laser pointer stuck to the butt end of the club worked real well for me. A real good way to see if your swing is on plane
Response:
I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option.
I made more improvement on swing plane by swinging indoors in front of a mirror than by range work. Much more. -Don M "traded my slice for a hook, that’s good, right?"
Response:
I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. I made more improvement on swing plane by swinging indoors in front of a mirror than by range work. Much more.
The swing plane is set primarily by your grip. If you setup with soft hands and soft arms during the backswing, the swing plane will probably be pretty close. Even if it is too steep or laid off, you can bring it back to the proper path if your arms are not too tense. Gravity and centrifugal forces work wonders. The swing plane usually becomes too steep when we overpower what is natural. Get your grip and setup right, then ensure the club is aligned with the target and the toe pointing up when it is horizontal going back– if you have those right, the plane all the way to the top and down will be close enough unless you are doing something really wierd. larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –Don M "traded my slice for a hook, that’s good, right?"
Response:
It seems like of all the things to work on in the full swing, swing plane might be the toughest of all. It’s pretty easy to see on video how good (or bad) your swing plane is but fairly tough to feel (at least for me) while hitting balls on the range. I’m wondering if there are any aids or drills that can assist with improving plane? A plane board is one option. However, my understanding is that the plane is different on the backswing than it is on the forward swing so then in theory the plane board could only help you with half of the problem (e.g. could improve your backswing plane for instance). What about some of the laser devices that are out there. They seem like good candidates for improving swing plane. Anything else out there?