Question:
OK, Tiger goes into the hot dog stand on the 18th. What was the ruling? Immoveable obstruction? What is the relief? It looked to me like he got relief from the tent more than just to allow a swing, it gave him a clear shot to the hole. Then he dropped and it rolled, and he got to place? I guess it wasnt a loose impediment, huh 
Response:
The PGA has a tour rule regarding temporary man made constructions that spring up around golf courses during PGA tour events. Such obstacles are "Temporary" Immovable Obstructions (TIO). The catering tent certainly isn’t there normally and is a TIO. In the event of a TIO coming into play, the player is allowed all the normal reliefs plus he also gets line of play relief, which mere mortals like you and I will never get. So, an official ruled that Tiger’s line of play was interfered with by the TIO. Tiger correctly established the nearest point of relief and then dropped within 1 club length of that point. He knew that the ball would roll away by more than 2 club lengths after hitting the ground, so before the first drop he chose the ideal spot, within the 1 club length, to play the ball from; a tuft of lush grass from which to to play a lob shot. He dropped the ball onto that spot and it rolled away as expected. He did it again and the ball rolled away again. Finally he placed the ball where he originally chose and twice dropped upon. Not only is he a very good player, he is a very knowledgeable golfer regarding the rules.
Response:
He gets relief from the immovable obstruction – I believe it may be a PGA Tour local rule that gives him "line of sight" relief (from structures such as scoreboards, grandstands, hotdog stands, etc.) Although they didn’t show the drop, it is apparent that either (1.) the ball rolled more than 2 clublengths, or (2.) it rolled into a position that brought the obstruction back into play. Either way, after the 2nd drop he gets to place the ball at the point is first hit the ground on the 2nd drop. — http://home.midsouth.rr.com/joecartpath
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -OK, Tiger goes into the hot dog stand on the 18th. What was the ruling? Immoveable obstruction? What is the relief? It looked to me like he got relief from the tent more than just to allow a swing, it gave him a clear shot to the hole. Then he dropped and it rolled, and he got to place? I guess it wasnt a loose impediment, huh
Response:
And he still hit a lousy shot! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Either way, after the 2nd drop he gets to place the ball at the point is first hit the ground on the 2nd drop.
Response:
OK, Tiger goes into the hot dog stand on the 18th. What was the ruling?
Read the post Temporary Immoveable Instructions above…or better yet read the rule book. bk
Response:
Read the post Temporary Immoveable Instructions above…or better yet read the rule book.
I ask a simple question which might bring to light a rather obscure section of the rules (obviously not used every day) to many readers of rsg and there is
Response:
You would have to play that hole from that position to realize what a difficult shot it can be. Been there, done that. bk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And he still hit a lousy shot!
Response:
I ask a simple question which might bring to light a rather obscure section of the rules (obviously not used every day) to many readers of rsg and there is
The tenor of your question insinuated that a preferred ruling was given. It’s not an obscure rule. TV mostly shows those rulings that the leaders ask for…there are dozens of rulings given during a tournament, but the obvious thinking is that high profile players are the only ones that ask for them. Sorry if you thought that suggesting the reading of the rules is smartass…but it isn’t dumbass. bk
Response:
Bobby Knight wrote Sorry if you thought that suggesting the reading of the rules is smartass…but it isn’t dumbass.
Yeah like Temporary Immovable Obstructions rule is used every day. Thought maybe a genuine conversation akin to the previous "loose impediment" ruling might ensue, but that was too much to hope for with the likes of you. I did not insinuate anything about a preferred ruling….out of all the replies you are the only one who inferred that. Thanks for your thoughtful input.
Response:
Bobby, the actual question asked by Lobshot was reasonable, and I understood his cynical tone as nothing more than a little bit of fun considering the phoenix boulder incident. Doubtless he read my reply, so I would say that your input referring him to my reply was…to say the least…pointless. Furthermore, there is nothing in the rules book about temporary immovable obstructions. Such a rule is for pro tour golf only. I wonder which of you two has read the book. Lobshot probably has, otherwise, I presume, he wouldn’t ask the question.
Response:
Both USGA and R&A provide this in Appendix I "Local Rules (Rule 33-8) and Conditions of the Competition (Rule 33-1) The USGA is more elaborate in providing details whereas the R&A states that specimen local rules for temporary obstructions for application of tournament play are available from the Royal and Ancient Golf Club of St Andrews. For the benefit of this News group I have re-printed the specimen local rules for Temporary Immovable Obstructions recommended by the USGA below: Temporary Immovable Obstructions When temporary obstructions are installed on or adjoining the course, the Committee should define the status of such obstructions as either movable, immovable or temporary immovable obstructions. If the Committee defines such obstructions as temporary immovable obstructions, the following Local Rule is recommended: 1. Definition A temporary immovable obstruction is a non-permanent artificial object which is often erected in conjunction with a competition and which is fixed or not readily movable. Examples of temporary immovable obstructions include, but are not limited to, tents, scoreboards, grandstands, television towers and lavatories. Supporting guy wires are part of the temporary immovable obstruction unless the Committee declares that they are to be treated as elevated power lines or cables. 2. Interference Interference by a temporary immovable obstruction occurs when (a) the ball lies in front of and so close to the obstruction that the obstruction interferes with the player’s stance or the area of his intended swing, or (b) the ball lies in, on, under or behind the obstruction so that any part of the obstruction intervenes directly between the player’s ball and the hole; interference also exists if the ball lies within one club-length of a spot where such intervention would exist. Note: A ball is under a temporary immovable obstruction when it is below the outer most edges of the obstruction, even if these edges do not extend downwards to the ground. 3. Relief A player may obtain relief from interference by a temporary immovable obstruction, including a temporary immovable obstruction which is out of bounds, as follows: a. Through the Green If the ball lies through the green, the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies shall be determined which (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids interference as defined in Clause 2 and (c) is not in a hazard or on a putting green. The player shall lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of the point thus determined on a part of the course which fulfills (a), (b) and (c) above. b. In a Hazard If the ball is in a hazard, the player shall lift and drop the ball either: (i) without penalty, in the hazard, on the nearest part of the course affording complete relief within the limits specified in Clause 3a above or, if complete relief is impossible, on a part of the course within the hazard which affords maximum available relief, or (ii) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard as follows: the point on the course nearest to where the ball lies shall be determined which (a) is not nearer the hole, (b) avoids interference as defined in Clause 2 and (c) is not in a hazard. The player shall drop the ball within one club-length of the point thus determined on a part of the course which fulfills (a), (b) and (c) above. Note: If the ball lies in a hazard, nothing in this Local Rule precludes the player from proceeding under Rule 26 or Rule 28, if applicable. The ball may be cleaned when lifted under Clause 3. Exceptions: A player may not obtain relief under Clause 3 if: 1. It is clearly unreasonable for him to play a stroke or, in the case of intervention, to play a stroke directly towards the hole, because of interference by anything other than the temporary immovable obstruction; 2. Interference by the temporary immovable obstruction would occur only through use of an unnecessarily abnormal stance, swing or direction of play; or 3. In the case of intervention, it would be clearly unreasonable to expect the player to be able to strike the ball far enough towards the hole to reach the temporary immovable obstruction. Note: A Committee may make a Local Rule (a) permitting or requiring a player to use a dropping zone or ball drop when taking relief from a temporary immovable obstruction or (b) permitting a player, as an additional relief option, to drop the ball on the opposite side of the obstruction from the point established under Clause 3, but otherwise in accordance with Clause 3. 4. Ball Lost If there is reasonable evidence that the ball is lost in, on or under a temporary immovable obstruction, a ball may be dropped under the provisions of Clause 3 or Clause 5, if applicable. For the purpose of applying Clauses 3 and 5, the ball shall be deemed to lie at the spot where it entered the obstruction (Rule 24-2c). 5. Dropping Zones (Ball Drops) If the player has interference from a temporary immovable obstruction, the Committee may permit or require the use of a dropping zone or ball drop. If the player uses a dropping zone in taking relief, he must drop the ball in the dropping zone nearest to which his ball originally lay or is deemed to lie under Clause 4 (even though the nearest dropping zone may be nearer the hole). Note: A Committee may make a Local Rule prohibiting the use of a dropping zone or ball drop which is nearer the hole. 6. Re-Dropping If a dropped ball rolls into a position covered by this Local Rule or a position covered by Rule 20-2c, it shall be re-dropped without penalty. If the ball when re-dropped rolls into such a position, it shall be placed as near as possible to the spot where it first struck a part of the course when re-dropped. Note: If the ball is dropped in a dropping zone, the ball shall not be re-dropped if it comes to rest within two club-lengths of the spot where if first struck a part of the course even though it may come to rest nearer the hole or outside the boundaries of the dropping zone. Penalty for Breach of Local Rule: Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Furthermore, there is nothing in the rules book about temporary immovable obstructions. Such a rule is for pro tour golf only. I wonder which of you two has read the book. Lobshot probably has, otherwise, I presume, he wouldn’t ask the question.
Response:
My statement that there was nothing in the rules book about TIO was not exactly correct. There is something in the R&A rules in the Appendix 1. However, it says nothing of real value to the reader, which is what I poorly attempted to allude to. Consequently, my comments about who might have read, or not read, the rules book was not justly made. I therefore unconditionally apologise to Bobby for any offence caused by my erroneous message. Kevin Nurse
Response:
The most complete information on TIO’s that I have seen can be found in a USGA publication entitled "How To Conduct a Competition". Appendix D has 6 pages of detailed verbiage and diagrams for a variety of possible scenarios involving TV towers and the like. Admittedly this is tournament officiating material and not something most of us will ever have to deal with. Regards, Mike G. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My statement that there was nothing in the rules book about TIO was not exactly correct. There is something in the R&A rules in the Appendix 1. However, it says nothing of real value to the reader, which is what I poorly attempted to allude to. Consequently, my comments about who might have read, or not read, the rules book was not justly made. I therefore unconditionally apologise to Bobby for any offence caused by my erroneous message. Kevin Nurse
Response:
Bobby, the actual question asked by Lobshot was reasonable, and I understood his cynical tone as nothing more than a little bit of fun considering the phoenix boulder incident.
You’re probably right Kev. bk – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –