Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have several complaints with how the USGA Handles Handicapping. Anyone else can add to this list. 1. Posting Scores Online Still Not Permitted. Here we are in 2000 and we have to stand in line at the clubhouse and fiddle with some old DOS program. I reckon we’ll have to wait 10-20 years for enough of the USGA Board members to die before we can rouse enough modern thinkers to get something done about this. The USGA feels that posting scores in a public place prevents people from sandbagging. Not true. So are you suggesting that posting scores in a private place will prevent sandbagging. regards Mark Blake
No mark I think what he is trying to point out is that the reasone the USGA gives for not allowing Online posting is because it would somehow stifle "Peer Review. I don’t think you have to be a Sherlock Holmes to figure out that posting Via the internet, and having those scores up for all to see can only improve peer review not hinder it. Imagin if you had a Web sight that listed all of the previous weeks scores, or got an E-mail with the days posting from your club. The baggers would think twice before posting an infated number. (but let’s face it, they would only think twice, and then post the big number anyway because who’s going to call them on it.?) I just think it can onlt help, not hurt. As for those who post lower numbers….well their punishment comes when I take their money. — The DeMented Golfer Golf spelled backwards is flog Rick DeMent "Time to pull a quick Hank Snow." To reply remove the XX from my E-mail address
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I have several complaints with how the USGA Handles Handicapping. Anyone else can add to this list. 1. Posting Scores Online Still Not Permitted. Here we are in 2000 and we have to stand in line at the clubhouse and fiddle with some old DOS program. I reckon we’ll have to wait 10-20 years for enough of the USGA Board members to die before we can rouse enough modern thinkers to get something done about this. The USGA feels that posting scores in a public place prevents people from sandbagging. Not true.
So are you suggesting that posting scores in a private place will prevent sandbagging. regards Mark Blake Fairway: [faer-wai] "An unfamiliar tract of mown grass running directly from tee to the green. Your ball can usually be found immediately to the left or right of it." RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/blakem.htm
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None of the munis in Columbus do not have GHIN computers as far as I know. Many of the other public-access courses don’t have GHIN computers, and don’t even have a handicap service except for a course handicap (only taking scores from that course). I don’t know why. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am amazed to hear how many golfers in the US are still posting on paper. I have not seen a paper posting form in quite a few years. All of the courses in Northern California that I have played in the last 5 years have had a posting computer. I had assumed that all courses would have posting computers by now. Does anyone know why there are so many courses without a computer? Is it because of your regional association or is it because of the individual course operators? As I noted previously, the cost of the computer certainly cannot be an issue and the versatility of the computer far exceeds paper posting. Dan Driscoll RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Current USGA/NCGA handicap index 16.4
– — — David "Thor" Collard — http://ttsoft.com/thor
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I am amazed to hear how many golfers in the US are still posting on paper. I have not seen a paper posting form in quite a few years. All of the courses in Northern California that I have played in the last 5 years have had a posting computer. I had assumed that all courses would have posting computers by now.
Does anyone know why there are so many courses without a computer? Is it because of your regional association or is it because of the individual course operators? As I noted previously, the cost of the computer certainly cannot be an issue and the versatility of the computer far exceeds paper posting. Dan Driscoll RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Current USGA/NCGA handicap index 16.4
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Excellent idea Joe. And I appreciatted your earlier post as well. I think the USGA needs to hire a few more minds like your so that we can implement changes n to fully utilize the advantages and possiblities of the information age. As it stands, it’s still, IMHO, in the dark ages. Shank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now with a little programming, a club could have people post over the web, and once a week the collection of posts e-mailed out to club members, or at least the handicap committee. I think golfers today, are more likely to check a web site once a day than a bulletin board in their clubhouse. What it all boils down to is that handicapping is an honor system. Thankfully, in my experience I haven’t directly faced too much sandbagging. Far more frequently, I’ve seen guys post scores lower than they shot (mulligans and egos at work). But I know sandbagging is out there. I think one of the local policies you can adopt to avoid is to require members to play in a certain number of tournaments and to have scores attested to by different individuals — at least enough to highlight if there is a problem.
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Your first post sounded an awful lot like some people I’ve played with who think ESC actually means they cannot score more than ESC allows on a hole. Not just for posting purposes, but for gross score, side bets, etc. I see now that’s not what you were saying. Normally I want to know what I actually shot even in casual rounds so I wouldn’t automatically pick up after I hit 7. I’m out there to play golf so I do like to finish the hole when practical even if it’s not going to be a score I’m proud of. However if my play was holding people up I would pick up.
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I rarely have anything riding on my casual round scores other than posting for handicap so the "ESC special" works for me. A ESC 7 on my card *is* a disaster hole as far as I’m concerned–it doesn’t "protect" me whatsoever. If I’m taking more than 6-7 strokes on a hole I’m not helping the pace of play so I look at it as cutting my losses and helping things to move along a little faster. Having a literal (& figurative for me! <g) gross score calculated at the end of a round means nothing to me, or more importantly, the USGA. If others wish to have theirs, have at it. And during my better rounds I find that I hardly ever have to use the ESC mercy-rule anyways. All I’m saying is that ESC can keep groups from having to wait behind another respective group while they are plumb-bobbing that fourth putt for your pure-pride 12 in a non-competitive round when you’ll be taking a 7, 8, or 9 on the hole when you post it later anyhow. Let’s take a vote….what’s more of an issue in the game of recreational golf "Well, I shot a 96 today" (vs. a 98 or 100 if I’d played out those ESC holes)–even though it goes in the computer as a 96). And yes, I know, less than 10% (or whatever it is) of all golfers carry a current official handicap, but every little bit you can do to eliminate slow play helps, IMHO. If more non-hcp golfers would pick up after 6-9 strokes (depending on their skill level) it might make a small difference in speeding up play which IMHO, is more valuable than a pure gross score vs. adjusted score discrepancy any day of the week and twice on Sunday. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
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It’s how serious we all take the take of policeing the process. I would be in favor of the USGA enforcing some standards. My club has no review. We have no internal policing….just a computer that is never "up". I have a months worth of scores that I need to put in.
I admit that one of my gripes with the USGA on handicapping is misguided enforcement. For example, their no posting via Internet policy is designed to ensure peer review, but my experience, there is very little peer (or any other) review that occurs. Now with a little programming, a club could have people post over the web, and once a week the collection of posts e-mailed out to club members, or at least the handicap committee. I think golfers today, are more likely to check a web site once a day than a bulletin board in their clubhouse. What it all boils down to is that handicapping is an honor system. Thankfully, in my experience I haven’t directly faced too much sandbagging. Far more frequently, I’ve seen guys post scores lower than they shot (mulligans and egos at work). But I know sandbagging is out there. I think one of the local policies you can adopt to avoid is to require members to play in a certain number of tournaments and to have scores attested to by different individuals — at least enough to highlight if there is a problem. — JoePete
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The only reason you’d use ESC to tell you when to pick up is if all you wanted out of your round was an adjusted score for posting purposes and didn’t care what you really shot. Some people have the misconception that ESC protects them from having a disaster hole, but it’s really just an adjustment made before posting. You still should record what you really shot on that hole.
It really makes no difference for handicap purposes… If you had some kind of frindly bet it would only matter if it was a total stroke bet. For skins, etc, if you were already out of the hole it would not matter. dsc – acssysdsc
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Dan… my understanding is that we can only post gross adjusted scores in the SCGA CLUB computer tournament or not. The score is then noted by a (T) next to the score. Do you have a special software program at your club? We never post net scores on the SCGA system.
It depends on your software. At out club we turn in raw scores. A club house worker puts the raw scores into the systm and the program applies the ESC. The T has to be marked manually. dsc – acssysdsc
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I have not seen a paper posting form for more than 5 years. I did not realize that there were parts of the US that still posted on paper. And the more I think about it, the fewer excuses I can think of for this. There is no reason that anyone in the US should be posting on paper anymore. The computers needed for posting purposes probably cost less than the annual cost of the paper forms. For damn sure the calculations are easier because they are done by a spreadsheet built into the program. I would be all over my association and golf course if they didn’t have a posting computer installed by now. <snip Even my home course writes scores in on a form supplied by the Central Ohio Golf Assoc.
– Good Golf Dan RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm
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<snip Other than that though, your issues about sandbagging and tournament scores should be handled by a decent handicap committee. The system is not about creating some perfect formula, but more about creating some honest oversight of each player. If a committee is keeping tabs for sandbaggers, and players themselves spending a few minutes each week reviewing scores, a lot of the problems you find now should disappear at your club. — JoePete
Joe, I think you hit the nail on the head hear. The formula is not the point. It’s how serious we all take the take of policeing the process. I would be in favor of the USGA enforcing some standards. My club has no review. We have no internal policing….just a computer that is never "up". I have a months worth of scores that I need to put in. Noone give a rat’s ass. — The DeMented Golfer Golf spelled backwards is flog Rick DeMent "Time to pull a quick Hank Snow." To reply remove the XX from my E-mail address
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<<snip The USGA feels that posting scores in a public place prevents people from sandbagging. Not true. No, but it does tend to encourage players post their scores right after their round. I really don’t have a problem with this, why do you need to be able to post via the internet anyway? Why not just post when you finish your round? I have never had to wait more than a minute, even when finishing a tournament. It also means that your fellow competitiors CAN check and see that you post the correct score. I know that this doesn’t happen very often, but that is part of then intent.
<snip I have to responses to this. First of all I get over to my "home" course about one every 4 or five weeks. I end up making a trip over there on my way home if it’s on the way. If not, then I go as soon as practical to post the score. I like to play different courses and they are one of the few that actually has a GHIN computer. It would be a big help for me or for golfers on vacation to post over the internet. Having said that the damn thing is always down! Frankly I’m really put off by how cavalier most golf courses are about handicaps. when I was inquiring about establishing a handicap I talked to the pro shops of the three courses nearest to my house and I was flat out appalled with the cavalier attitude regarding the subject. In all three cases I was encouraged to cheat in one way or another (one suggesting I don