Question:
THe points about equipment and agronomy are related. Coming into the greens with shorter irons means the first putt will be shorter. That coupled with better greens explains some aspects of the lower scores. Neither factor alone answers the "how come scores are so low this year?" question, though.
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What I find so interesting (and can’t seem to get anyone to give a reason for) is that the technological (and yes, even the agronomical) improvements we enjoy today have been at an advanced stage for a few years now. So why is it, all of a sudden in 2001, we’re seeing all these records fall? Why is this happening now?
I dunno either. But the guys on ESPN and ABC kept talking all week about the "ideal conditions" during most of the west coast swing. Perhaps it’s the weather, stupid? — "What we love, we grow to resemble." — Bernard of Clairvaux. ——- homepage: http://www.depaul.edu/~dsimpson
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I find so interesting (and can’t seem to get anyone to give a reason for) is that the technological (and yes, even the agronomical) improvements we enjoy today have been at an advanced stage for a few years now. So why is it, all of a sudden in 2001, we’re seeing all these records fall? Why is this happening now? I dunno either. But the guys on ESPN and ABC kept talking all week about the "ideal conditions" during most of the west coast swing. Perhaps it’s the weather, stupid? — "What we love, we grow to resemble." — Bernard of Clairvaux. ——- homepage: http://www.depaul.edu/~dsimpson
AHA! The source of your wisdom is REVEALED. St. Bernard (not the pooch). THAT speaks a lot… On this topic, though, we have many new things that contribute to the total results seen at the Hope: agronomy predictable greens technology of clubs heightened personal performance – the Tiger effect weather conditions alititude??? teaching is improving conditioning is MUCH different than even a few years ago 59 thing will be equaled or broken frequently from now on if only the courses are left alone – by raising the bar (narrower fairways, impossible pin positions) the tournament directors CAN prevent them but if the playing field is left alone, we will not long from now see a 57 or two. We have already seen 28s…on MAJOR difficult layouts. My guess. George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com Pendulum Press George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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the 59 thing will be equaled or broken frequently from now on if only the courses are left alone – by raising the bar (narrower fairways, impossible pin positions) the tournament directors CAN prevent them but if the playing field is left alone, we will not long from now see a 57 or two. We have already seen 28s…on MAJOR difficult layouts. My guess.
Mine, too. Could be that all the advancements have been leading us here, and it’s just now starting to come together to result in these record scores. In the back of my mind I can’t help but think golf historians 50 years from now will look back at the turn of the century and think of it as the dawning of a new era in the sport. They’ll probably be left scratching their heads as to why, though. Randy
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Mine, too. Could be that all the advancements have been leading us here, and it’s just now starting to come together to result in these record scores. In the back of my mind I can’t help but think golf historians 50 years from now will look back at the turn of the century and think of it as the dawning of a new era in the sport. They’ll probably be left scratching their heads as to why, though.
My guess would be the kids programs. You now have a generation coming up who did nothing but play golf since birth, got to play thru school, and now play on tour. A good case could also be made of using the technology and science advancements (muscle conditioning, video analysis, etc) as another "quantum leap" for players. Jeff
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The kind of "low scoring" that to me represents an improvement in players and equipment rather than just agronomy (which leads to some random Joe Journeyman shooting 36 under) is Tiger’s near misses at 59 at Memorial last year. Now THAT is not the agronomy, and you didn’t see Joe Durant or any other whodat shooting the same kind of score. But you did see some whodats shooting in the 80s. p.s. When the cut is -7, "*all*" the players ARE shooting low numbers. Duh! -joseph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Although the golf ball is a factor, the ONLY way you can shoot 7 under per day is putting on perfect greens. Maybe some of the overall low scoring trend can be ascribed to longer hitting, but when players go really low, "it’s the agronomy, stupid." I would only qualify that statement by saying that if it were only the agronomy, stupid, then *all* the players in the field would be shooting low numbers. Such is not the case, as there are always winners and losers. But it seems as if when someone gets hot these days, they are much hotter than we’ve seen before.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the 59 thing will be equaled or broken frequently from now on if only the courses are left alone – by raising the bar (narrower fairways, impossible pin positions) the tournament directors CAN prevent them but if the playing field is left alone, we will not long from now see a 57 or two. We have already seen 28s…on MAJOR difficult layouts. My guess. Mine, too. Could be that all the advancements have been leading us here, and it’s just now starting to come together to result in these record scores. In the back of my mind I can’t help but think golf historians 50 years from now will look back at the turn of the century and think of it as the dawning of a new era in the sport. They’ll probably be left scratching their heads as to why, though. Randy
All things are not linear. Improvements in everything contribute but not necessarily enough to have a noticeable effect. Finally, some threshold is crossed and the impact is felt. .
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Calcavecchia sets the all-time stroke total record of 256 at Phoenix three weeks ago and today we see Joe Durant get to 36 under at the Hope, eclipsing Tom Kite’s 8-year-old record of 35 under in a 90-hole event. I’m beginning to think that no record in golf is safe anymore, except Byron Nelson’s 11 in a row. If this were baseball, there’d be an inquisition about a juiced ball, but in golf, we’ve been hearing about the advancements in technology for years. So why, all of a sudden, are these records falling right and left in 2001? I’ve posed this question to a few pros — some point to Tiger raising the bar and forcing the others to rethink their practice and fitness regimens. No doubt that’s had an effect. But it’s not like these guys weren’t practicing until this year. Others merely scratch their head and wonder the same thing. It’s just astonishing to see this kind of scoring. From here on, the courses get tougher and I doubt if we’ll see anything quite as dramatic. Still, consider that Mark Calcavecchia’s total of 30-under, only good for 3rd place at the Hope and never really in the hunt for the lead, would have been good enough to win almost every Desert Classic of the past. Really quite amazing. Randy Charter Member, RSG Clique My WEBSITE: www.YouGoGolf.com My RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Production Services: www.RandyBrownProductions.com
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I am not worried–yet. They go low every year at the HOPE. He broke the record by 1 darn shot–or about 1 %. The Phoenix record scares me more than the Hope, because Phx has played difficult the past few years and the weather was cold in Phx this year.–but a new record at the Hope doesn’t get my attention. But yes these guys are good and getting better. My guess is that the Majors will be set up real tough this year to see where the game is really at. Brad – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Calcavecchia sets the all-time stroke total record of 256 at Phoenix three weeks ago and today we see Joe Durant get to 36 under at the Hope, eclipsing Tom Kite’s 8-year-old record of 35 under in a 90-hole event. I’m beginning to think that no record in golf is safe anymore, except Byron Nelson’s 11 in a row.
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Although the golf ball is a factor, the ONLY way you can shoot 7 under per day is putting on perfect greens. Maybe some of the overall low scoring trend can be ascribed to longer hitting, but when players go really low, "it’s the agronomy, stupid."
I would only qualify that statement by saying that if it were only the agronomy, stupid, then *all* the players in the field would be shooting low numbers. Such is not the case, as there are always winners and losers. But it seems as if when someone gets hot these days, they are much hotter than we’ve seen before. What I find so interesting (and can’t seem to get anyone to give a reason for) is that the technological (and yes, even the agronomical) improvements we enjoy today have been at an advanced stage for a few years now. So why is it, all of a sudden in 2001, we’re seeing all these records fall? I don’t believe equipment and record low scoring are all that closely related.
I tend to agree. If they were that closely associated, someone would have shot 30 under for 72 holes in the last few years. Why is this happening now? If I had greens that smooth to putt on every day, I’d probably knock 3 strokes off my handicap (considering that I’m a pretty good putter).
The greens at the Bob Hope were not only smooth, but they were not especially fast. Plus, they’re not terribly undulating, either. Just sloped enough that they’re not so subtle to make ‘em hard to read. Let’s face it, the courses used at the Hope are not exactly the most difficult golf courses in the world. Still, 36 under is pretty amazing, even if the cups were the size of kitchen sinks. Randy
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Although the golf ball is a factor, the ONLY way you can shoot 7 under per day is putting on perfect greens. Maybe some of the overall low scoring trend can be ascribed to longer hitting, but when players go really low, "it’s the agronomy, stupid." I don’t believe equipment and record low scoring are all that closely related. If I had greens that smooth to putt on every day, I’d probably knock 3 strokes off my handicap (considering that I’m a pretty good putter). As it is, whether my birdie putts go in is just a matter of whether the ball zigs or zags on the way to the hole. -joseph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It pretty much lays to rest the argument of whether the equipment makes that much difference. I took a look at the PGA Tour site and in the last 20 years the driving distances on average have increased over 20 yards and the accuracy looks like its improving. If it keeps going at that rate the big hitters will be booming the ball 400 yards by the year 2100!
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It pretty much lays to rest the argument of whether the equipment makes that much difference. I took a look at the PGA Tour site and in the last 20 years the driving distances on average have increased over 20 yards and the accuracy looks like its improving. If it keeps going at that rate the big hitters will be booming the ball 400 yards by the year 2100! Matt