Question:
Allen, I don’t know if it is a USGA initiative or is being pushed by my regional association (NCGA), but in the past 2-3 years a lot of the courses in NorCal have eliminated virtually all on-course OB, except where it is a safety issue. I have gotten in the habit of really looking for OB markers, particularly on courses that I haven’t played for a while. I have found that a lot of interior OB has disappeared, making some of these courses much more playable and opening more options for long and short knockers alike. I play a course where 17 is a 600+ yard par 5 and 18 is about a 525 yd par 5. 18 parallels 17 to the left in the opposite direction. Interesting thing they have done is staked the left side of 17 (18th fairway) as OB but the signs indicate that the right side of 18 (17th fairway) is NOT OB. So you can play 18 from 17 but not vice versa. — Allen Van Camp (To reply, replace spammers-are-scum with earthlink) Fairway? What’s a fairway?!?!
– Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!
Response:
Allen, I don’t know if it is a USGA initiative or is being pushed by my regional association (NCGA), but in the past 2-3 years a lot of the courses in NorCal have eliminated virtually all on-course OB, except where it is a safety issue. I have gotten in the habit of really looking for OB markers, particularly on courses that I haven’t played for a while. I have found that a lot of interior OB has disappeared, making some of these courses much more playable and opening more options for long and short knockers alike.
I would second the notion that interior OB should be done away with. OB should mean off the course. The spirit of playing the ball as it lies should mean playing it anywhere on the course. Safety issues are a different matter, of course, but a golfer should have the option of trying to recover from an errant shot if it stays on the golf course. Joe
Response:
John, That shot should never be out of bounds since out of bounds essentially means off the course property. I’ll grant you that in some situations an "internal" OB is necessary for safety, but those situations IMHO are basically design flaws. Think about hitting a ball toward another fairway. At what point does it become OB if there are no marks? Can you envision the arguments. " G. D. that ball is 6.75 inches past the trees. Its OB." "No you stupid SOB, the ball has to be at least 7 inches past to be OB." I exagerate, but you see my point. Larry Connor
adjoining fairway. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking from the voice of ignorance and inexperience it seems like a no-brainer to me:) Marked or not such a shot should ALWAYS be out of bounds. Carefully pick up the ball, take your penalty, (even if you have to negotiate with your partners what the penalty should be) and get out of people’s way. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY
Response:
I play a course where 17 is a 600+ yard par 5 and 18 is about a 525 yd par 5. 18 parallels 17 to the left in the opposite direction. Interesting thing they have done is staked the left side of 17 (18th fairway) as OB but the signs indicate that the right side of 18 (17th fairway) is NOT OB. So you can play 18 from 17 but not vice versa. — Allen Van Camp (To reply, replace spammers-are-scum with earthlink) Fairway? What’s a fairway?!?!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John, That shot should never be out of bounds since out of bounds essentially means off the course property. I’ll grant you that in some situations an "internal" OB is necessary for safety, but those situations IMHO are basically design flaws. Think about hitting a ball toward another fairway. At what point does it become OB if there are no marks? Can you envision the arguments. " G. D. that ball is 6.75 inches past the trees. Its OB." "No you stupid SOB, the ball has to be at least 7 inches past to be OB." I exagerate, but you see my point. Larry Connor
Response:
That’s OK John, it has been scientifically proven that a brain is not necessary and may indeed be a detriment to playing golf. 
FYI, hitting a ball into the wrong fairway is a very common occurance, particularly in urban areas where golf courses tend to be squeezed onto the smallest amount of land possible. Often fairways on these course run parallel to each other with only 5-10 yards of rough and trees seperating them. Even on more expansive courses, like St. Andrews in Scotland, the fairways run parallel and fairly close together. No, there is nothing wrong (other than your aim!) or illegal with playing from the wrong fairway. But it does have to be done safely and you cannot interfere with the players who are rightfully playing that fairway. Also, since there are no OB markers, the only way proper penalty under your requirements would be to declare the ball unplayable and take the stroke and distance penalty. That would mean that you would have to tee up another ball and replay the tee shot. That would be your 3rd shot. Any other procedure would result in violations of numerous other rules, depending on your specific actions. But if you play your first ball, even if it is in the other fairway, then you are only laying 1. I play at an old, narrow course at which 15 and 16 are abutting. The middle 250 of both holes are separated by trees. However, if you really slice one off of the tee on 15, you can end up on the fairway on 16. If you are just barely onto 16, you don’t have space to get over and there is really no clear way to get back to 15 without an awful lot of luck, as the trees are thick. There are no out of bounds markers or anything, so I assume that it would be legal to down the 16th fairway and then chip to the 15th green. <snipped Speaking from the voice of ignorance and inexperience it seems like a no-brainer to me:) Marked or not such a shot should ALWAYS be out of bounds. Carefully pick up the ball, take your penalty, (even if you have to negotiate with your partners what the penalty should be) and get out of people’s way.
– Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jerome, If there are no white OB markers, as you indicated, then there is no penalty for playing the 15th hole vis the 16th fairway. Given your description of the holes, it sounds like the smart play. However, always rememebr that YOU are the person in the wrong fairway. The group that is actually playing the 16th holes has the ‘right of way’, so to speak. By that I mean that you have to wait for them if they are hitting, not the other way around. It always burns me up when I am getting ready to hit from the tee or the fairway and someone from another hole saunters over to hit their bad shot. Sorry, but you hit the bad shot, you have to wait for me. Now, I may wave you out, but that is my decision, not yours. Another point is that you need to be VERY careful about where you hit the ball and calling FORE. Remember, the people on the 16th hole may not even know you are there and might not be expecting a ball to come towards them from their own fairway! I think that this is an etiquette question, as I don’t think there is a rules violation involved. I play at an old, narrow course at which 15 and 16 are abutting. The middle 250 of both holes are separated by trees. However, if you really slice one off of the tee on 15, you can end up on the fairway on 16. If you are just barely onto 16, you don’t have space to get over and there is really no clear way to get back to 15 without an awful lot of luck, as the trees are thick. There are no out of bounds markers or anything, so I assume that it would be legal to down the 16th fairway and then chip to the 15th green. Is there any issue of etiquette here? I should add that it’s a blind downhill shot on the 16th fairway, so at minimum I should make sure the fairway is clear. Do I have any other responsibility? Luckily, I haven’t been that far right yet, but I was thinking about this Sunday as I punched out of the trees. Thanks, Jerome — Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!
Speaking from the voice of ignorance and inexperience it seems like a no-brainer to me:) Marked or not such a shot should ALWAYS be out of bounds. Carefully pick up the ball, take your penalty, (even if you have to negotiate with your partners what the penalty should be) and get out of people’s way. I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend until YOUR DEATH your right to say it! –Austin 3:17 JOHN A. MONTGOMERY
Response:
Jerome, If there are no white OB markers, as you indicated, then there is no penalty for playing the 15th hole vis the 16th fairway. Given your description of the holes, it sounds like the smart play. However, always rememebr that YOU are the person in the wrong fairway. The group that is actually playing the 16th holes has the ‘right of way’, so to speak. By that I mean that you have to wait for them if they are hitting, not the other way around. It always burns me up when I am getting ready to hit from the tee or the fairway and someone from another hole saunters over to hit their bad shot. Sorry, but you hit the bad shot, you have to wait for me. Now, I may wave you out, but that is my decision, not yours. Another point is that you need to be VERY careful about where you hit the ball and calling FORE. Remember, the people on the 16th hole may not even know you are there and might not be expecting a ball to come towards them from their own fairway! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that this is an etiquette question, as I don’t think there is a rules violation involved. I play at an old, narrow course at which 15 and 16 are abutting. The middle 250 of both holes are separated by trees. However, if you really slice one off of the tee on 15, you can end up on the fairway on 16. If you are just barely onto 16, you don’t have space to get over and there is really no clear way to get back to 15 without an awful lot of luck, as the trees are thick. There are no out of bounds markers or anything, so I assume that it would be legal to down the 16th fairway and then chip to the 15th green. Is there any issue of etiquette here? I should add that it’s a blind downhill shot on the 16th fairway, so at minimum I should make sure the fairway is clear. Do I have any other responsibility? Luckily, I haven’t been that far right yet, but I was thinking about this Sunday as I punched out of the trees. Thanks, Jerome
– Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!
Response:
I think that this is an etiquette question, as I don’t think there is a rules violation involved. I play at an old, narrow course at which 15 and 16 are abutting. The middle 250 of both holes are separated by trees. However, if you really slice one off of the tee on 15, you can end up on the fairway on 16. If you are just barely onto 16, you don’t have space to get over and there is really no clear way to get back to 15 without an awful lot of luck, as the trees are thick. There are no out of bounds markers or anything, so I assume that it would be legal to down the 16th fairway and then chip to the 15th green. Is there any issue of etiquette here? I should add that it’s a blind downhill shot on the 16th fairway, so at minimum I should make sure the fairway is clear. Do I have any other responsibility? Luckily, I haven’t been that far right yet, but I was thinking about this Sunday as I punched out of the trees. Thanks, Jerome
Response:
I wouldn’t consider it a breach of etiquette, and it’s definitely not against the rules, but it does sound like a dangerous layout. There’s a local course that has two holes similar to what you described. #4 is a dogleg left with trees down the left side. The best angle to hit to the #4 green is from the fifth fairway (which is to the right of #4 fairway). The problem with hitting it there is that the tee shot on #5 is a blind and uphill, so if you play from the 5th fairway to the 4th green, players teeing off on 5 have no idea where you are. It’s really dangerous and is one reason I don’t play there anymore. — John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think that this is an etiquette question, as I don’t think there is a rules violation involved. I play at an old, narrow course at which 15 and 16 are abutting. The middle 250 of both holes are separated by trees. However, if you really slice one off of the tee on 15, you can end up on the fairway on 16. If you are just barely onto 16, you don’t have space to get over and there is really no clear way to get back to 15 without an awful lot of luck, as the trees are thick. There are no out of bounds markers or anything, so I assume that it would be legal to down the 16th fairway and then chip to the 15th green. Is there any issue of etiquette here? I should add that it’s a blind downhill shot on the 16th fairway, so at minimum I should make sure the fairway is clear. Do I have any other responsibility? Luckily, I haven’t been that far right yet, but I was thinking about this Sunday as I punched out of the trees. Thanks, Jerome