Question:
Fabulous post Randy! Thank you!! -Greg
Response:
news.net: Commercial postings to non-commercial Newsgroups I urge you — no I implore you — to visit their website and read this for yourself. The address is: http://www.atlantic.net/htm_about/policies_aup.htm – the above quoted information is found under Section 12.
Very clear, my 10yr old could understand the rules, and I appreciated the reminders. Gary
Response:
. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: rec.sport.golf "Perfect Limp Act" wrote I am interested in what you are referring to in the Charter. I will be happy to provide this information, but first, a short history lesson is in order: When RSG was chartered in the early/mid 1990s, Usenet was still mostly an educational domain, a holdover from the years preceding when widespread use of the internet by the public at large started occuring. Certainly by the time RSG was chartered, there were plenty of people who found Al Gore’s internet, but Usenet was still a sort of "hidden" area, not yet found by the masses. As such, there were no threats of "spam" or "commercial postings" in Usenet, as it was not at that time an area where advertisers would even consider cultivating leads. Nothing but computer geeks and educational/governmental stuff going on here. And then came porn and all the binary newsgroups, which brought about a whole change in the dynamics (and usage) of Usenet. Spammers first found that area as fertile ground in which to cultivate leads for things too unmentionable to repeat here. And pretty soon, as other newsgroups popped up, more spammers (selling everything from penis enlargement to real estate to porn videos) started posting everywhere. (You would do well to consider that whenever you post a commercial message to Usenet — spam — you tend to be lumped in with that group. Not exactly the image I would think you’d want to create for yourself, especially since you seem to have aspirations of one day being a City Councilman.) It’s fair to say that based on the timeline, the originators of this newsgroup might never have considered as a possibility that spamming would be a problem in Usenet. It hadn’t yet come to that. Unfortunately, as a result, there is no specific prohibition of "spam" or "advertising" per se in the charter. How’s that for honesty? Now, as it relates to your question, here’s what the charter says is acceptable content for the newsgroup, rec.sport.golf: Charter: This group will be a place to discuss: * different techniques and equipment; * pro tours and results; * the various leagues (USGA, PGA, LPGA, etc); * specific golf courses and course designers; * results of regional, collegiate, national, and international tournaments; * golf-related people and articles * maybe even finding local playing partners… This was not the final, agreed version. For some reason you seem to have posted the wrong one. Here is the correct one, afaics, and note the last line: Proposed newsgroup: rec.sport.golf Moderated status: UNMODERATED Charter: This group will be a place to discuss: * different techniques and equipment; * the various leagues (USGA, PGA, LPGA, etc); * results of regional, collegiate, national, and international tournaments, both pro and amateur; * specific golf courses and/or course designers around the world; * golf vacation ideas, experiences, etc.; * subjects involving miniature golf; * anything else related to the Game of Golf Please note that that nowhere in the above listing is "advertising" or "testimonials" for commercially-available items mentioned as acceptable content. Advertising has never ever been against the rules in rec.sport.golf, but anyone who wishes to advertise here needs to consult with their ISP’s Terms of Service and Acceptable Use Policy, may well uphold the right for them to advertise is usenet groups whose charter does not prohibit adverts, like rec.sport.golf. Furthermore, a strong argument can be made that advertising is not "discussion," and therefore doesn’t fit the chartered list of acceptable topics. And indeed, one of the key words in this list is, in fact, "discuss." "Discussing" things certainly implies that anyone who posts a declarative statement might be well-advised to be fully prepared to accept the fact that others may have differing views, and therefore should be prepared to defend their own. No post that initiales a thread can be classified as "discussion" until someone replies. Hope this helps. It is easy to be taken in by individuals who write particularly well. Some people have a great talent for expressing themselves using the power of the well written word, and as a result can get themselves quite a following. Don’t be taken in. — F.
Response:
I had to move this up to the top of my news reader. For those that might not have seen it. "Perfect Limp Act" wrote I am interested in what you are referring to in the Charter.
I will be happy to provide this information, but first, a short history lesson is in order: When RSG was chartered in the early/mid 1990s, Usenet was still mostly an educational domain, a holdover from the years preceding when widespread use of the internet by the public at large started occuring. Certainly by the time RSG was chartered, there were plenty of people who found Al Gore’s internet, but Usenet was still a sort of "hidden" area, not yet found by the masses. As such, there were no threats of "spam" or "commercial postings" in Usenet, as it was not at that time an area where advertisers would even consider cultivating leads. Nothing but computer geeks and educational/governmental stuff going on here. And then came porn and all the binary newsgroups, which brought about a whole change in the dynamics (and usage) of Usenet. Spammers first found that area as fertile ground in which to cultivate leads for things too unmentionable to repeat here. And pretty soon, as other newsgroups popped up, more spammers (selling everything from penis enlargement to real estate to porn videos) started posting everywhere. (You would do well to consider that whenever you post a commercial message to Usenet — spam — you tend to be lumped in with that group. Not exactly the image I would think you’d want to create for yourself, especially since you seem to have aspirations of one day being a City Councilman.) It’s fair to say that based on the timeline, the originators of this newsgroup might never have considered as a possibility that spamming would be a problem in Usenet. It hadn’t yet come to that. Unfortunately, as a result, there is no specific prohibition of "spam" or "advertising" per se in the charter. How’s that for honesty? Now, as it relates to your question, here’s what the charter says is acceptable content for the newsgroup, rec.sport.golf: Charter: This group will be a place to discuss: * different techniques and equipment; * pro tours and results; * the various leagues (USGA, PGA, LPGA, etc); * specific golf courses and course designers; * results of regional, collegiate, national, and international tournaments; * golf-related people and articles * maybe even finding local playing partners… Please note that that nowhere in the above listing is "advertising" or "testimonials" for commercially-available items mentioned as acceptable content. Furthermore, a strong argument can be made that advertising is not "discussion," and therefore doesn’t fit the chartered list of acceptable topics. And indeed, one of the key words in this list is, in fact, "discuss." "Discussing" things certainly implies that anyone who posts a declarative statement might be well-advised to be fully prepared to accept the fact that others may have differing views, and therefore should be prepared to defend their own. You may read the entire charter at http://www.landfield.com/usenet/news.announce.newgroups/to.file/rec.s port.go lf Next, I would point you to the newsgroup’s only widely acknowledged FAQ, which, as you know, specifically states that the readers of the newsgroup wish to keep it free of advertising. Please note that this document, though recently revised and updated by Dan Driscoll, originated many years earlier, and most of the content contained in it was authored by folks who were here long before you, long before me, long before many of the people who are here now. Their names, along with the names of those of us who contributed to the re-write/update a few years ago are listed at the beginning of the document. I urge you to visit this site, as you may be surprised to find that there are numerous people listed there who have never participated in your so-called "Get Shorty" campaign. Indeed, these are people who have long-standing status as people who have merely attempted to protect the newsgroup from the kind of infestations that have caused other newsgroups to become veritable ghost towns, with the spammers ruling the roost. Here’s what the FAQ says about "Usenet etiquette": The readers of rec.sport.golf have decided that they do not want to see commercial or off topic posts in RSG. A commercial posting is one in which you attempt to sell or advertise a product, even if it is golf related product such as clubs or training videos. Off topic postings are those in which the primary topic is not golf related. These include, but are not limited to, political commentary, MMF (Make Money Fast) schemes, free internet/e-mail services, etc. Including the name of a golfer or a golf course does not make the posting golf related unless that is the primary topic. It is considered abuse to post off topic, commercial or advertising messages to a newsgroup whose FAQ specifically prohibits such posts. While there is no formal procedure for sanctioning individuals who ignore newsgroup etiquette, active newsgroup participants can and do file complaints with the abuser’s Internet Service Provider (ISP). A sufficient number of complaints can cause the offender to lose his/her internet access and posting privileges. In extreme cases, the offender’s ISP may have its internet backbone access shutdown. This is known as the Usenet Death Penalty. Those individuals who have golf clubs, equipment, supplies, training aids, accommodations, travel packages or other golf related commercial offerings are encouraged to post their products and services to the newsgroup alt.golf.forsale. AGF is specifically dedicated to the commercial aspects of golf and unlike the readers of RSG, subscribers to ASG are interested is seeing commercial postings. The entire FAQ can be read at: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Finally, George, I would refer you to your own Internet Service Provider (Atlantic.net) for guidance on what is and isn’t appropriate content in Usenet. Their own website states their Acceptable Use Policies, which you agree to by accepting their services. Here’s what they say about commercial content in non-commercial Usenet newsgroups: Information stored on the Atlantic.Net servers is subject to certain restrictions, including but not limited to the following situations: [...] Commercial postings to non-commercial Newsgroups I urge you — no I implore you — to visit their website and read this for yourself. The address is: http://www.atlantic.net/htm_about/policies_aup.htm – the above quoted information is found under Section 12. Randy