Question:
To be honest… If I just turned on PGA coverage for the very first time, there isn’t a single person playing on tour that I could point too and say "He’s a foreigner". If I didn’t know better, I’d think Price, Singh, Langer, etc were Americans. You just can’t tell by looking or by their name. dsc
Response:
Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods?
You’re right… highly unlikely… Monty is his own worst emeny when he comes over to our side of the pond. He has a verbal duel going with fans now and I don’t see either side backing down. dsc
Response:
What’s so bad about his looks… certainly not the worst looking guy on tour… dsc
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Next to Phil Mickelson, the person I want to win the U.S. Open the most is Colin Montgomery. Even though he has responded poorly, I am ashamed of our heckling him – primarily for his looks.
Response:
(snip) I suspect that the problems Montgomerie has, or at least started, with certain sections of the American golf spectator world revolve around the intensity with which he plays. (snip) I think it’s simpler than people make it out to be — he just comes across as a pompous, supercilious British ass. Deservedly so or not. That doesn’t necessarily come from just playing with intensity.
Clearly you’ve never met a pompous, supercilious British ass. Crispin Roche
Response:
Ah, so there is no room for modesty in your world then.
There’s plenty of room for modesty in our culture. HOwever, modesty isn’t the personality trait needed for winning the hearts of the viewers. I don’t think he’s "friendly" and so far, his demenor doesn’t say friendly guy. If Monte, like many others "CHOOSE" to play on the PGA Tour, they have to cope with the viewers and try to make nice for the media… He’s over here to MAKE MONEY because his own tour doesn’t have the large purses, lavish facilities and turn outs for maintaining world rankings. Also he’s here to make his sponsors happy which makes him MORE money. Jumbo is a great golf and has played in various PGA tour events over the years, he couldn’t speak english, and nobody bothered him, he had an intrepretor. Jumbo stays in Japan these days… Not because he’s disliked or hates americans fans, he just likes staying in Japan. Compare Monte to Darin Clark…Clarks liked When I have traveled outside of the US, no matter what country I have visited, I try my darndest to behave in an acceptable manner by their standards and be friendly. Being modest is one thing, being open, accessable and friendly is another… G
Response:
A rather remarkable statement which strongly suggests that Americans are brought up to be crass, rude and ignorant. I know this is not the case and in fact I know that many Americans both understand tradition and proper behaviour and willingly comply with it. Crispin Roche
My statement does NOT include all americans…or all golfers… NONE of my golfing friends drink while playing golf or when attending tournaments and they all know how to behave in public… course the 19th hole doesn’t count. Ever watch the Based on my 52yrs of life, tournaments attended, participated in and my travels around the world, we have more boozing, loud types wandering around our golf courses then anywhere else I have been in the world. I am NOT stating an exact science here…just personal observations. I live in So CA and walk on most wkends. This past weekend, I played both days, Saturday with a nice French couple from British Columbia, CA… Very proper, both my wife and I really enjoyed their company. Sunday, we played with a man, mid 30’s, started drinking on the 4th hole, which made it about 9:30am; multiple mixed drinks, voice progressively got louder, cussing, tried to be cool…talked to much, nice guy when we started, but due to his consumption level, he was progressively getting worst and I didn’t appreciate that period, and less so with my wife present. G
Response:
(snip) I suspect that the problems Montgomerie has, or at least started, with certain sections of the American golf spectator world revolve around the intensity with which he plays.
(snip) I think it’s simpler than people make it out to be — he just comes across as a pompous, supercilious British ass. Deservedly so or not. That doesn’t necessarily come from just playing with intensity. Zane
Response:
I certainly appreciate Maryamu and Price for their personalities, but my point was that they were applauded for their playing ability, as they should be. Yes, but a key factor with both players you mention is they clearly appreciate and embrace the cultural differences where ever they play. After either one performes a great shot, their animated about their supposed luck, when we know skill was present.
Ah, so there is no room for modesty in your world then. I suspect that the problems Montgomerie has, or at least started, with certain sections of the American golf spectator world revolve around the intensity with which he plays. When he is on the golf course he believes he is there to play the very best he can and win. That is, he considers himself a sportsman first and foremost and he doesn’t really see himself as an entertainer, which is now part of the job description of the modern sportsmen. Montgomerie is not unique in this respect and there are many sportsmen in many sports who equally get labelled spoilt, arrogant and so on and so forth. And were they to be as accessible as Montgomerie would receive just as much grief from the crowd as Montgomerie gets and for exactly the same reasons, i.e. they consider themselves sportsmen not entertainers. Crispin Roche
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are full-time foreign members of the USPGA tour treated differently to those who just turn up occasionally? Watching the European Tour with its great range of nationalities, most of the time you don’t take any notice of the players’ nationality. The win by the Argentinian Angel Cabrera at the Belfry last week was as well received as if he had been ‘one of us’. In Montgomerie’s defence, I think it comes as a real shock for players weaned on the European Tour, that there would be any negative attitudes from spectators. Why should he have to toughen up against it? It shouldn’t happen. You’re right Simon… The diversity on the european tour is so broad, differences mean little. And, more importantly, the european gallaries are filled with viewers that are reared with appreciation, viewer traditions and proper public behavior. American’s are NOT born of proper behavior and traditions.
A rather remarkable statement which strongly suggests that Americans are brought up to be crass, rude and ignorant. I know this is not the case and in fact I know that many Americans both understand tradition and proper behaviour and willingly comply with it. Crispin Roche
Response:
I certainly appreciate Maryamu and Price for their personalities, but my point was that they were applauded for their playing ability, as they should be.
Yes, but a key factor with both players you mention is they clearly appreciate and embrace the cultural differences where ever they play. After either one performes a great shot, their animated about their supposed luck, when we know skill was present. They reach out to the gallaries. Monte is not the type of person that reachs out to trandsend cultural behavior. Gary Player is another world traveler that is accepted in every culture. G
Response:
Are full-time foreign members of the USPGA tour treated differently to those who just turn up occasionally? Watching the European Tour with its great range of nationalities, most of the time you don’t take any notice of the players’ nationality. The win by the Argentinian Angel Cabrera at the Belfry last week was as well received as if he had been ‘one of us’. In Montgomerie’s defence, I think it comes as a real shock for players weaned on the European Tour, that there would be any negative attitudes from spectators. Why should he have to toughen up against it? It shouldn’t happen.
You’re right Simon… The diversity on the european tour is so broad, differences mean little. And, more importantly, the european gallaries are filled with viewers that are reared with appreciation, viewer traditions and proper public behavior. American’s are NOT born of proper behavior and traditions. The PGA tour is not filled with multi-nationals. So, when someone from another culture shows up in the field, his ability to meld is most important to his being accepted and finding popularity. G
Response:
Monty is a different case – he’s tended to fuel the resentment of the fans. For most golf fans, I don’t think it’s a case of nationality – it’s a case of personality. Look at some of the most popular players with the US fans over the last several years. Price. Els. Norman. Faldo. Elkington. Sorenstam.
I agree Joe… I think Monte causes some of his problem and just doesn’t mix with certain americans after they have a few to many pops. Monte has never embraced the american public…never wanted to fit in…and that becomes noticable. Then, put him against someone really popular, mr ugly american comes out;-( Nationality has nothing to do with being accepted or not when walking down the fairway…it’s what type guy you are! G
Response:
How come golf fans don’t police these sports fans?
By the time someone blurts something out, it’s too late — the damage is already done. If I was standing next to an obnoxious heckler, he would definitely have to focus his attention on me, vs. the victim.
I’m sure there are plenty of folks in the crowd who let these fools know of their displeasure. You never hear of them. I’m surprised they aren’t escorted off the premises.
In most cases, they are. Randy
Response:
Colin, I’m not sure if you get the magazine Golf Digest where you are, but in this month’s issue, they have launched a new editorial campaign to "Be Nice to Monty." It even contains instructions for where you can send in your name and address to receive a button to wear with those words on it. As others have pointed out in the past, I don’t think it’s GOLF fans that cause these problems. It’s SPORTS fans who show up at golf tournaments who are to blame. They bring their basketball/football/baseball/hockey sensibilities without much grounding in the gentlemanly and respectful behavior that is typically associated with golf. In other words, the people heckling Monty are, for the most part, people who don’t know diddly about golf.
How come golf fans don’t police these sports fans? If I was standing next to an obnoxious heckler, he would definitely have to focus his attention on me, vs. the victim. I’m surprised they aren’t escorted off the premises. -Greg – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To be fair about it, I don’t know of -any- true golf fans who have been anything but respectful of Monty. Either way, Monty would do well to try to tune out the heckling. I know it’s unfair, and it’s hard to tune it out (especially with his antenna-like ears). But as any NFL quarterback knows, if you start using up your team’s timeouts every time a hostile crowd starts drowning out your barking out of signals, it won’t quiet them down, and in fact, will only make matters worse the next time you come to the line. (Sorry for the football analogy, as I don’t know if it will mean much to you.) — Randy Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. "Smoke ‘em out … dead or alive, I don’t care." - G. Bush I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG. RSG-ATLANTA 2002 – www.YouGoGolf.com/rsga.org Golf on the web – www.YouGoGolf.com It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received, especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. No, most Australian players at least are somewhat in awe of the favourable treatment they receive. Many also say they are treated so well by tournament organisers it’s almost embarrassing. I know Paul Gow has reported his treatment generally as a USPGA Tour player is "out of this world". However, do you think if Craig Parry was coming up the stretch with Couples in 2002 that he would be heckled now like he was in 1992? I know that was a "local town hero" scenario, but Parry has never forgotten the treatment he received. Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods? Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
Next to Phil Mickelson, the person I want to win the U.S. Open the most is Colin Montgomery. Even though he has responded poorly, I am ashamed of our heckling him – primarily for his looks.
Response:
It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received. especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. I don’t think this logic is correct, Bobby. Maryamu and Price are well received because of their great personalities and their humble appreciation of the fans’ support, not because we Americans are gracious towards all foreigners. Kudos should go to Price and Maryamu, not to the fans.
Given your logic, such applause would follow gracious, and humble, players who don’t finish in the top 10, or 20. I believe that Montgomerie would find a more gracious reception here than one might think, with a win. That should silence the poor sports in the crowd. I certainly appreciate Maryamu and Price for their personalities, but my point was that they were applauded for their playing ability, as they should be. ___ o ’ | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. Ignore them and they’ll go away.
Response:
It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received. especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. I don’t think this logic is correct, Bobby. Maryamu and Price are well received because of their great personalities and their humble appreciation of the fans’ support, not because we Americans are gracious towards all foreigners. Kudos should go to Price and Maryamu, not to the fans.
Are full-time foreign members of the USPGA tour treated differently to those who just turn up occasionally? Watching the European Tour with its great range of nationalities, most of the time you don’t take any notice of the players’ nationality. The win by the Argentinian Angel Cabrera at the Belfry last week was as well received as if he had been ‘one of us’. In Montgomerie’s defence, I think it comes as a real shock for players weaned on the European Tour, that there would be any negative attitudes from spectators. Why should he have to toughen up against it? It shouldn’t happen.
Response:
Monty is a different case – he’s tended to fuel the resentment of the fans. For most golf fans, I don’t think it’s a case of nationality – it’s a case of personality. Look at some of the most popular players with the US fans over the last several years. Price. Els. Norman. Faldo. Elkington. Sorenstam. — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com
Fully agree with your assessment that it’s personality, not nationality, that counts. (Though heckling is wrong in both cases.) Personally, get a huge kick out of Monty (unlike many of the robots and sourpusses on tour he actually has some personality). — "Philosophy: a route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing." — Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary. — Home Page: http://condor.depaul.edu/~dsimpson
Response:
It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received. especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today.
I don’t think this logic is correct, Bobby. Maryamu and Price are well received because of their great personalities and their humble appreciation of the fans’ support, not because we Americans are gracious towards all foreigners. Kudos should go to Price and Maryamu, not to the fans.
Response:
For most golf fans, I don’t think it’s a case of nationality – it’s a case of personality.
Perhaps. There’s probably a few Australians lacking in that department. Or are you casting aspersions on Craig Parry? ;-) Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received, especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. No, most Australian players at least are somewhat in awe of the favourable treatment they receive. Many also say they are treated so well by tournament organisers it’s almost embarrassing. I know Paul Gow has reported his treatment generally as a USPGA Tour player is "out of this world". However, do you think if Craig Parry was coming up the stretch with Couples in 2002 that he would be heckled now like he was in 1992? I know that was a "local town hero" scenario, but Parry has never forgotten the treatment he received. Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods? Cheers Colin Wilson I think in the Couples/Parry case, it was more about the immense popularity Couples enjoyed – and the fact that he was probably the first player to have such a wildly vocal group of fans (to use the term loosely). Maybe a Scott Hoch or a Jeff Maggart would have been heckled less than a "foreigner", but maybe not. Monty is a different case – he’s tended to fuel the resentment of the fans. For most golf fans, I don’t think it’s a case of nationality – it’s a case of personality. Look at some of the most popular players with the US fans over the last several years. Price. Els. Norman. Faldo. Elkington. Sorenstam.
I wonder how Ballesteros, Norman and Kite felt playing the last few holes of The Masters in 1986? There were some serious negative vibes directed their way, espcially after Nicklaus had finished. These kinds of things come up in spectator sports; pros have to deal with it or get a real job. (OTOH, the treatment of Monty has been, IMHO very unfair). Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received, especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. No, most Australian players at least are somewhat in awe of the favourable treatment they receive. Many also say they are treated so well by tournament organisers it’s almost embarrassing. I know Paul Gow has reported his treatment generally as a USPGA Tour player is "out of this world". However, do you think if Craig Parry was coming up the stretch with Couples in 2002 that he would be heckled now like he was in 1992? I know that was a "local town hero" scenario, but Parry has never forgotten the treatment he received. Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods? Cheers Colin Wilson
I think in the Couples/Parry case, it was more about the immense popularity Couples enjoyed – and the fact that he was probably the first player to have such a wildly vocal group of fans (to use the term loosely). Maybe a Scott Hoch or a Jeff Maggart would have been heckled less than a "foreigner", but maybe not. Monty is a different case – he’s tended to fuel the resentment of the fans. For most golf fans, I don’t think it’s a case of nationality – it’s a case of personality. Look at some of the most popular players with the US fans over the last several years. Price. Els. Norman. Faldo. Elkington. Sorenstam. — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com
Response:
Colin, I’m not sure if you get the magazine Golf Digest where you are, but in this month’s issue, they have launched a new editorial campaign to "Be Nice to Monty." It even contains instructions for where you can send in your name and address to receive a button to wear with those words on it. As others have pointed out in the past, I don’t think it’s GOLF fans that cause these problems. It’s SPORTS fans who show up at golf tournaments who are to blame. They bring their basketball/football/baseball/hockey sensibilities without much grounding in the gentlemanly and respectful behavior that is typically associated with golf. In other words, the people heckling Monty are, for the most part, people who don’t know diddly about golf. To be fair about it, I don’t know of -any- true golf fans who have been anything but respectful of Monty. Either way, Monty would do well to try to tune out the heckling. I know it’s unfair, and it’s hard to tune it out (especially with his antenna-like ears). But as any NFL quarterback knows, if you start using up your team’s timeouts every time a hostile crowd starts drowning out your barking out of signals, it won’t quiet them down, and in fact, will only make matters worse the next time you come to the line. (Sorry for the football analogy, as I don’t know if it will mean much to you.) — Randy Troll intolerant. I took the RSG 2002 Pledge. "Smoke ‘em out … dead or alive, I don’t care." - G. Bush I do not patronize those who advertise in RSG. RSG-ATLANTA 2002 – www.YouGoGolf.com/rsga.org Golf on the web – www.YouGoGolf.com
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received, especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. No, most Australian players at least are somewhat in awe of the favourable treatment they receive. Many also say they are treated so well by tournament organisers it’s almost embarrassing. I know Paul Gow has reported his treatment generally as a USPGA Tour player is "out of this world". However, do you think if Craig Parry was coming up the stretch with Couples in 2002 that he would be heckled now like he was in 1992? I know that was a "local town hero" scenario, but Parry has never forgotten the treatment he received. Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods? Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received. especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today. ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk
Response:
It can’t be said that foreign players on the PGA tour aren’t well received, especially after Maryamu’s greeting as he won last week, and the great reception that Price received walking up the eighteenth fairway at Colonial today.
No, most Australian players at least are somewhat in awe of the favourable treatment they receive. Many also say they are treated so well by tournament organisers it’s almost embarrassing. I know Paul Gow has reported his treatment generally as a USPGA Tour player is "out of this world". However, do you think if Craig Parry was coming up the stretch with Couples in 2002 that he would be heckled now like he was in 1992? I know that was a "local town hero" scenario, but Parry has never forgotten the treatment he received. Also, what do you think would happen in the unlikely event it was Colin Montgomerie a few strokes in front of Tiger Woods? Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com