Question:
<shaking head God bless. Do I feel bad for you Taz. Give the women what they want, and they bitch and moan about it. Let’s just hope that they are willing to deal with the "other" issues associated with the current situation. </shaking head Frankly, there are quite a few women out there who play golf who would be taking 6 hours to play if they had to play anywhere but from the forward tees. There are some guys who would play better if they played the forward tees. I just wish the guys didn’t feel that there was a stigma associated with playing the forward tees. -T-
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We tried to do the politically correct thing at our club andgot rid of all gender specific days, tee boxes and any thing that referred to gender, except in a couple of necessary places. This was brought about by a couple of lawyers, and a member of our legislature. They were on the distaff side of the coin. When this happned, you would have thought we poked/beat a hornets nest with a stick. The ladies were ready to revolt. They wanted their exclusive day on the course back, their tournaments, and events brought back, and most of all they wanted their tees, not gold (seniors) but the red ones. They made their displeasure known, and in no uncertain terms. They got everything back that they wanted. Taz
Response:
<snip Frankly, there are quite a few women out there who play golf who would be taking 6 hours to play if they had to play anywhere but from the forward tees. There are some guys who would play better if they played the forward tees. I just wish the guys didn’t feel that there was a stigma associated with playing the forward tees.
I am all over this, Teresa. We have a ton of senior men and not a few non-senior men who really need to be playing the forward tees. A course I played back in Indiana had forward tees for men over 65 with over-30 handicaps. Frankly, my current course could use a rule like that – that would include the guys who can’t get out of their own way, too. I’ve often been behind guys playing from the whites (or farther back, god forbid) who I can out hit all day long, but testosterone requires they use the tees that let them hold up the foursome behind them. <steam Play to your talent, not your ego, puhleeze. Terry "Squeaks" Hansen AAC(F)BV66.0748.CO RSG Role Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/hansent.htm (BTW – anyone know how to update this sig line? I’ve tried, Lord knows, I’ve tried…)
Response:
RSG Role Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/hansent.htm (BTW – anyone know how to update this sig line? I’ve tried, Lord knows, I’ve tried…)
Terry, I used this link the last time I updated mine. http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/form.htm Sometimes it can take a couple of weeks between when you submit changes and when Jeff updates the rollcall. — Kenny Stultz RSG Rollcall: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/stultzk.htm
Response:
Why shouldn’t women play at any tees they want – as long as they don’t slow up play? Playing at different tees changes your strategy and makes you look at the course different. It’s good fun. Does the handicap system know your gender? Does it care?
Response:
Played a course on Monday and the Card had the following: Handicap Recommendations Men Women Green 0-5 0 7020 yards Gold 6-10 1-3 6514 yards Blue 11-20 4-7 6180 yards White 21+ 8-15 5807 yards Red 16+ 5100 yards — David RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/sneddond.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why shouldn’t women play at any tees they want – as long as they don’t slow up play? Playing at different tees changes your strategy and makes you look at the course different. It’s good fun. Does the handicap system know your gender? Does it care?
Response:
In some instances, it does matter. When I am playing off the regular tees, and they are rated for the male bogey player, it creates an artifically high handicap. When I was in a tournament last week, I asked the pro to adjust my handicap (for flighting purposes) to reflect what it would be off the senior tees (which is about 6 strokes less.) It also matters when there is only one set of tees rated for ladies, and 3 for the guys. -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why shouldn’t women play at any tees they want – as long as they don’t slow up play? Playing at different tees changes your strategy and makes you look at the course different. It’s good fun. Does the handicap system know your gender? Does it care?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. Rubbish, I say. I’ll play where I am comfortable, and also that I utilize all of the clubs in my bag. (and also keep up) (That is usually around 6000 yards.) Anything less than 5600 yards and the game is nothing more than a pitch and putt. (I "normally" drive about 210 with about 10 yards of roll.) H***, when I was in the tournament last week, I left the driver in the bag for a couple of holes where I normally would use it, since the "forward" tees were quite short. -T- Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest T
We tried to do the politically correct thing at our club andgot rid of all gender specific days, tee boxes and any thing that referred to gender, except in a couple of necessary places. This was brought about by a couple of lawyers, and a member of our legislature. They were on the distaff side of the coin. When this happned, you would have thought we poked/beat a hornets nest with a stick. The ladies were ready to revolt. They wanted their exclusive day on the course back, their tournaments, and events brought back, and most of all they wanted their tees, not gold (seniors) but the red ones. They made their displeasure known, and in no uncertain terms. They got everything back that they wanted. Taz
Response:
Jeez Joe, you gettin’ paranoid. I was refering to the men in my life, like my father and… well,… -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Some of the guys I know can swing out of their shoes and not break 200 <snip -T- Dammit, Teresa – you *promised* you wouldn’t tell anyone! — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com Basic Golf Clubmaking & Memphis Area Golf Course Guide and….The Memphis MG Page…
Response:
In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not?
but would that solve the total problem? i’m 53 years old with 90 year old knees. my guess is that the greater majority of middle to low hc ladies probably out drive me even if we play from the same tee, and some would still out drive me with me hitting from the reds and them from the whites. For your idea to work and be fair for all. every player regardless of sex would have to be tested and then have to play the correct set of handicapping clubs(for lack of a better term). As their abilities changed, so would the clubs they played have to change to make up for their improving/eroding skills. In theory your idea would work, but in pratice i doubt it would fly. Bud
Response:
<snip Some of the guys I know can swing out of their shoes and not break 200 <snip -T-
Dammit, Teresa – you *promised* you wouldn’t tell anyone! — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com Basic Golf Clubmaking & Memphis Area Golf Course Guide and….The Memphis MG Page…
Response:
In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not?
No, becuase it makes so much sense. The smaller ball, square grooves, trampoline effects. These things were banned becuase it made golf easier, and made golf courses too short – for men. women dont have that problem becuase the ladies tees can always move back. somehow i just cant see the industry embracing such a change.
Response:
I agree completely re: courses being rated. Fortunately around my area, there are many courses who at least have the middle tees rated for women as well as the forward tees. It is rare to find courses that have 3 (or more) sets of tees rated for women though, but all in all, I’m satisfied if I can play something other than forward tees. One thing I do like about being "forced" to play off forward tees is I have probably learned a lot more course management than I otherwise would have — holes are often way too short to hit driver or any woods for that matter, or there are doglegs that prevent me from hitting much more than a 5 iron off the tee. So, I play a little smarter and plan out what to hit and learn a bit in the process. Frustrating some days but a good learning experience as well. Playing forward tees doesn’t necessarily make the course as easy as a pitch-n-putt… that would be the one comment in Teresa’s post that I disagree with. For the first time in my life I am a single digit handicapper (9.6) and if all it took was a short course or forward tees to be at this level, I would have been here years ago. However, it’s taken me 16 years to get here because I rarely practise, I don’t belong to a club and I only play once or twice a week during the season – about 40 rounds a year max. I suppose that makes me an anomaly in the golf world… I know I’m fortunate to have a lot of natural ability and that’s taken me a long way. I do agree though that it’s not always as fun playing forward tees, which is why I prefer not to. Part of what I love about the game is that I can hit my driver and can hit them well. I have always hit the ball well off the tee, even when my handicap didn’t indicate that I had much game. I would say that I can drive 215-220 consistently, and I’ve had a couple of rounds this year where I was *averaging* 250, but I know those were exceptional ball striking days for me and not the norm. Funny story — was playing with a guy yesterday, both of us playing the white tees, and I out-drove him on the second hole. His first comment – "that’s not right". I say "why not?". He just looks at me like the answer should be obvious. I explained to him that my swing speed is low 90’s with a driver to which he replied that his was about the same. So I just looked at him with the same look he had given me. He still didn’t get it… he brought it up again as we got closer to our balls and again said "it’s not right". I again said why not? He says (and I swear this is the truth) "because I’m a player". So I asked him if he carried a handicap. He says yes and in a "you probably don’t understand what I’m talking about" tone said his handicap index was about 11.6. I replied, quite happily of course, that mine was 9.6. He shut up for the rest of the game. :-) My 2 cents, Jen message… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …My only gripe is that all tees should be rated for both genders.
Response:
A few weeks ago, I was playing a casual round (from the blues) and caught up with a couple. Much to my surprise, the woman was playing THE TIPS with her boyfriend, and was blowing her tee shots about 30 yards past mine. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information: http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm Rookie Member, Starve the Trolls Society My RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting: www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. Rubbish, I say. I’ll play where I am comfortable, and also that I utilize all of the clubs in my bag. (and also keep up) (That is usually around 6000 yards.) Anything less than 5600 yards and the game is nothing more than a pitch and putt. (I "normally" drive about 210 with about 10 yards of roll.) H***, when I was in the tournament last week, I left the driver in the bag for a couple of holes where I normally would use it, since the "forward" tees were quite short. -T- Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not? — F.
A perfectly struck ball on virtually any flat surface will travel further with greater mv impacting the ball (mass time velocity). So making it excruciatingly difficult for the men to have perfect impact by reducing their striking surface will only weed out the hackers. But guess what! They are already weeded out by the ladies who outplay them from any tees. The LPGA home course in the US is here in our area. LOTS of men go to the WOMEN for instruction. I love ladies swings because they HAVE to use good mechanics; they do not have muscle that men do, so they use amplitude, plane, and excellent physics. I could NOT beat Annika from ANY teebox.
Response:
I’m not griping about your post. Far from. What I find amusing is that courses, for the most part, have this full list of handicap variance for one gender (0-5 tips; 6-13 back; 14-20 members; 20-25 forward; 26+ for beginner) but this listing for another gender: (no listing for tips or back tees; 0-5 for members tees, 6-10 forward; 10+ beginners) I play one of these courses, and it would so much less challenging if I followed this recommendation. One of these days, I will learn how to become a volunteer slope rater, and re-rate some of these courses for the guys and gals from all of the tees. -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Teresa, I’m not suggesting you be ‘forced’ into playing any set of tees. What LPGA posts on their score card are recommendations. You, like I, play the tees we find challenging rather than that our handicap might dictate. Apparently, you’re reading something into my post looking for something more to complain about. I would urge you to re-read it. Forrest I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. Rubbish, I say. I’ll play where I am comfortable, and also that I utilize all of the clubs in my bag. (and also keep up) (That is usually around 6000 yards.) Anything less than 5600 yards and the game is nothing more than a pitch and putt. (I "normally" drive about 210 with about 10 yards of roll.) H***, when I was in the tournament last week, I left the driver in the bag for a couple of holes where I normally would use it, since the "forward" tees were quite short. -T- Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest
Response:
FWIW, I do think there’s a growing movement to refer to them as the "middle" or "forward" tees, or the "championship" or "back" tees. I agree with those who’ve said that’s the way it should be. Randy RSG-ATLANTA Information: http://www.YouGoGolf.com/rsg-atlanta.htm Rookie Member, Starve the Trolls Society My RSG Roll Call profile: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/brownr.htm RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html Voiceovers/Narration/Voice Acting: www.RandyBrownProductions.com To e-mail me, go to my website at www.YouGoGolf.com and find the link.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even I have to disagree with this Felicity. (Amazing, huh.) There are quite a few people, and not just women withstanding, who should take advantage of a set of tees placed forward. My only gripe is that all tees should be rated for both genders. That way, the male beginners wouldn’t feel so "unmanly" when playing from 5000 yards, and the ladies aren’t slighted when they want to play from 6000+. Besides, there are a small minority of us ladies who do play the forged blades (one of my competetors plays Walter Hagen blades with Rifle Lite 5.0 steel shafts) and keep persimmon woods around for practice. Personally, I find it quite amusing when there are some guys out there who have no business playing tees outside 6000 yards, and some women who would make any course inside 6000 yards a pitch and putt. (if I had a short game, this would be me as well.) I agree completely, Teresa; rate each tee for men and women. Also, get rid of the old terms like "ladies tee". My first reaction to Felicity’s post was to say to just scrap the male/female distinction entirely and have us all just play the same golf under the same handicapping system. I thought better of it, however, as we should each play a course designed to give us maximum challenge and enjoyment. Generally, that means a longer course for most men than for most women. The best solution, IMO, is to rate each tee for each gender. The problem,in my experience, is that golf associations do not have enough volunteers to do this and are lucky to keep up with rating just the regular middle tees. Bruce http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
Force was a wrong choice of term. It seems more like a recommendation, as far as I can tell. One course I played in Florida had this recommendation chart on the first hole. I thought it would be a little short for my game, but upon analysis, it made for an enjoyable round while on vacation. What I would like to see is more of a chart refering to driving carry distance. Some of the guys I know can swing out of their shoes and not break 200, and some of the ladies I play with can half swing and make that distance. Handicap isn’t necessarily indicative of ability. (I’d be about 10 points lower if I had more time for practice…) -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. (snip) On the two courses that I play most often, there are a few women (pretty good golfers for any gender) that I’ve seen fairly often that play from the second set of men’s tees all the time, as best as I can tell. Why would anyone "force" you to play any tees other than the ones you like? Zane
Response:
In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not? — F.
Response:
In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not?
No, because it sounds ridiculous. I want to play real golf with a full set of real clubs. If you don’t want to play the forward tees, move back. Bruce http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
Even I have to disagree with this Felicity. (Amazing, huh.) There are quite a few people, and not just women withstanding, who should take advantage of a set of tees placed forward. My only gripe is that all tees should be rated for both genders. That way, the male beginners wouldn’t feel so "unmanly" when playing from 5000 yards, and the ladies aren’t slighted when they want to play from 6000+. Besides, there are a small minority of us ladies who do play the forged blades (one of my competetors plays Walter Hagen blades with Rifle Lite 5.0 steel shafts) and keep persimmon woods around for practice. Personally, I find it quite amusing when there are some guys out there who have no business playing tees outside 6000 yards, and some women who would make any course inside 6000 yards a pitch and putt. (if I had a short game, this would be me as well.) -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In this new modern, space age, of club technology, how would you guys feel if the R&A and USGA abolished ladies tees and let technology fill the gap between the sexes? Men could all use small headed bladed irons, proper small headed wooden woods, and women would use big forgiving trampoline cavity back irons, big metal trampoline "woods" and huge trampoline titanium drivers. No need for the forward tees! Do you agree, and if not why not? No, because it sounds ridiculous. I want to play real golf with a full set of real clubs. If you don’t want to play the forward tees, move back. Bruce http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest
Response:
I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. Rubbish, I say. I’ll play where I am comfortable, and also that I utilize all of the clubs in my bag. (and also keep up) (That is usually around 6000 yards.) Anything less than 5600 yards and the game is nothing more than a pitch and putt. (I "normally" drive about 210 with about 10 yards of roll.) H***, when I was in the tournament last week, I left the driver in the bag for a couple of holes where I normally would use it, since the "forward" tees were quite short. -T-
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest
Response:
I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees.
(snip) On the two courses that I play most often, there are a few women (pretty good golfers for any gender) that I’ve seen fairly often that play from the second set of men’s tees all the time, as best as I can tell. Why would anyone "force" you to play any tees other than the ones you like? Zane
Response:
Teresa, I’m not suggesting you be ‘forced’ into playing any set of tees. What LPGA posts on their score card are recommendations. You, like I, play the tees we find challenging rather than that our handicap might dictate. Apparently, you’re reading something into my post looking for something more to complain about. I would urge you to re-read it. Forrest – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find this type of typecasting ridiculous. I can understand having a handicap listing for the teeing locations of the black and blue, but why should ladies who are quite long and have a higher handicap (like I do who do not have time to practice more than once a week on the short game and it shows) be "forced" to play the forward tees. Rubbish, I say. I’ll play where I am comfortable, and also that I utilize all of the clubs in my bag. (and also keep up) (That is usually around 6000 yards.) Anything less than 5600 yards and the game is nothing more than a pitch and putt. (I "normally" drive about 210 with about 10 yards of roll.) H***, when I was in the tournament last week, I left the driver in the bag for a couple of holes where I normally would use it, since the "forward" tees were quite short. -T- Both courses at LPGA International (Champions and Legends) have Black/Blue/White/Gold/Red tees and have suggested handicap for both men and women for those tees. For example, on the Legends course: Tee (Men) (Ladies) Black (0-4) Blue (5-8) White (9-19) (0-4) Gold (20-27) (5-9) Red (28+) (10+) Since I don’t have an ‘official’ handicap…I play the white tees which is very challenging to me (I’m having a difficult time breaking 100)…but my estimated handicap would probably put me on the Gold tees. I’ve played shorter courses, Crane Lakes in Port Orange being one, and shot 11-over for 18 holes. It felt great, but the course is only 3991 yds VS 6339 yds for Legends. If I were to move up to the Gold tees on Legends it would play 5827 yds, not nearly as short as Crane Lakes but I’m sure breaking 100 wouldn’t be the challenge it currently is. I don’t think there should be an equipment difference, just play the proper tees for your skill level. I’ve played with women who drive as long as I do and shoot near scratch golf…they play the white tees with me. I’ve also played with my mother who needs to play the front tees because she doesn’t hit the ball very far (but she’s always straight down the middle)…it usually takes her two shots just to reach my drive (if I don’t duff it). Forrest
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Even I have to disagree with this Felicity. (Amazing, huh.) There are quite a few people, and not just women withstanding, who should take advantage of a set of tees placed forward. My only gripe is that all tees should be rated for both genders. That way, the male beginners wouldn’t feel so "unmanly" when playing from 5000 yards, and the ladies aren’t slighted when they want to play from 6000+. Besides, there are a small minority of us ladies who do play the forged blades (one of my competetors plays Walter Hagen blades with Rifle Lite 5.0 steel shafts) and keep persimmon woods around for practice. Personally, I find it quite amusing when there are some guys out there who have no business playing tees outside 6000 yards, and some women who would make any course inside 6000 yards a pitch and putt. (if I had a short game, this would be me as well.)
I agree completely, Teresa; rate each tee for men and women. Also, get rid of the old terms like "ladies tee". My first reaction to Felicity’s post was to say to just scrap the male/female distinction entirely and have us all just play the same golf under the same handicapping system. I thought better of it, however, as we should each play a course designed to give us maximum challenge and enjoyment. Generally, that means a longer course for most men than for most women. The best solution, IMO, is to rate each tee for each gender. The problem,in my experience, is that golf associations do not have enough volunteers to do this and are lucky to keep up with rating just the regular middle tees. Bruce http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman