Question:
Our last home was bordered on one side by a very large game preserve and across the lake was a state wildlife management area that allowed no hunting. My wife started out by feeding corn to the squirrels. Soon we had deer in our yard every night. So she had me put in a feeding station for them too. It was not uncommon to see twelve deer in our front yard at one time. They even came in over day, but in fewer numbers. In addition to eating the corn that we put out, they also ate just about every flower in the yard. You could not scare them away no matter what you did. The would stand in the driveway at night and would not move no matter how many times I blew the horn. While I was cutting the grass they would lie in the woods just feet from where the grass ended. There were not afraid of me at all. The home that we are building now is on Lake Norman. in Denver, NC. During the day you can see deer walking through the neighborhood oblivious to the sound of: nail guns, compressors, saws, heavy equipment, concrete trucks, and hammering.. Once they discovered that we were no threat to them, they just ignored us. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found that my tractor mower does not scare deer, squirrels, or most birds. They adapt. Then they eat my garden. You should see the turkey’s in northern michigan. Whole damn family was munching out at my 50 yard pistol target. Great seeing them but I had to go out and shoe them away so I could get time on my range. Reminds me of the time I came home at 11:30 PM carrying in my groceries. All of a sudden I heard a whop, whop, whop which sounded like a helo squadron. I dropped my bags and froze in my last step. The moonlight gave me a hint, I just stepped into a flock of turkeys taking their repast. The next morning, I got a picture of 40+ turkeys having a feast in my yard. As long as we are leaving them be, they seem to sense that and do their thing. Make a good day, Wes
Peter Bucy
Response:
More BS. Animals are known to avoid the noisey machines.
Rec.outdoors.national-parks has been discussing this topic for the last year if you want some insight. Search google. Use Grappler and snow mobile as key words. Ed Huesers
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, it was reported on a story on either PBS or the Discovery Channel that many animals make use of the paths that are cut by snowmobiles. They said that the noise didn’t really have much of an impact on the wildlife. Pete I take it that the noise wouldn’t bother you if you were seeking some quiet and solitude and perhaps had skied or snowshoed in, or even gotten off your own screaming machine for a few minutes of peace? I guess for some people the sound of snow falling is just too terrifying to behold, and the idea of using physical means to do anything other than turn an ignition switch is positively horrific. Too bad – you’re missing some of our greatest blessings. -don
I think that the snowmobiles should be restricted to designated trails in some areas just as hikers are. I would support a bit of noise control on these beasts. They can be muffled down to the point where they are very difficult to hear. The military has done this with some of their equipment quite successfully and inexpensively. There is nothing terrifying about the sound of snow falling. Neither is there anything upsetting about the park service managing snowmobiles on designated trails. It allows the public to see the parks in winter and to gain a better appreciation for the wilderness. Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
More BS. Animals are known to avoid the noisey machines.
Animals are intelligent creatures who soon learn what should be feared. The same elk that supposedly are afraid of snowmobiles wander onto golf courses by the hundreds and don’t seem to be bothered by either the golfers or the grounds keeping machines. These are the same elk that wander around towns and will stare down a 35 ton semi on main street. I have found that my tractor mower does not scare deer, squirrels, or most birds. They adapt. Then they eat my garden. Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Plus you’d never get your fat ass anywhere without a 500lb machine to make a trail for you. Wayne
Wayne, my rear end has been in places without the aid of machinery that would amaze you. The national parks and federal lands belong to everyone, even those who ride snowmobiles. Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
Jerry, the military uses snowmobiles that are so quiet that you almost can’t hear them running when you are standing next to one of them. I would not object to requiring better sound control for both snowmobiles and jet skis. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Pete I don’t think that this Kevin Collins guy knows what the hell he’s talking about. One of the big reasons that I get up to the Boundary Waters is to get a bit of peace and quite, if I wanted the never-ending drone of outboards, jet-skis, dirt bikes, snowmobiles, and so on I could easily go to any one of hundreds of more local areas. It’s really nice to be able to sit back and hear -nothing-, or at least nothing man-made, for at least a few weeks out of the year. The critters seem to adapt to the racket fairly fast, once they realize that it’s not a threat. Personally, I think the whole issue of the effects of noise on wildlife is blown out of proportion: we have lots & lots of local animals (deer, smaller mammals, birds, and so forth: some of them are supposed to be quite rare) and it doesn’t seem to have slowed them down at all. Heck, about 2 miles away we have some bald eagles that have their nest right on the fence-line of a gravel pit. We have a place that raises elk and another that has about a doz. Buffalo, they don’t even look up at the traffic going by anymore. They just tune it out. But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility. Had to do a double take on Chaka’s comment about the critters being run down if they stepped onto the snowmobile/dirtbike trails. Evidentially has never been on a snowmobile; you never, ever, want to hit anything larger than maybe a cat with a snowmobile. There would be a real good chance that the operator would be just as messed up as the critter afterwards. — JLG
Peter Bucy
Response:
But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility. Amen to that. If there’s one thing that is getting harder and harder to find these days, it’s peace and quiet.
I can get that in my apartment. When the AC is off in all the units in it, you can literallu hear a pin drop … in the next room. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t realize just how saturated our lives are with noise until they actually get to a place and hear nothing. It’s nice; it’s actually unusual, but most don’t really appreciate it until they hear it at least once. I think that with 99% of the land already available to the motor-heads they don’t need every single square inch.
This whole debate is so political it is simply silly. Any RESONABLE person who is basically for preservation of the backcountry can see that a reasonable compromise is possible and indeed the correct thing here. Oldstyle snowmobiles ARE noisy, polluting, and objectionable. They stink. But there is no reason that improved ones, which now apparently exist, need be any different in a qualitative way from cars. These should be allowed where cars are allowed in the summer. And there should not be any restriction on their numbers either. Same with cars. I suspect the real reason a lot of true left wing "environmentalists" (I am a right wing environmentalist) want to ban snowmobiles is simply to be banning something … they love to ban people form doing things. Now there are some activities in some places that need to be banned for purposes of peace, quiet, and keeping some places remote. BUT … banning motor vehicles in the winter from roads that have traditionally been used for that purpose, and have been are still are used for cars in the summer, is silly, so long as proper vehicles have become available. Which they apparently now are. Doug McDonald
Response:
That cool I want a snowmobile now.
Response:
aoejfjndna
Response:
But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility.
Amen to that. If there’s one thing that is getting harder and harder to find these days, it’s peace and quiet. Evidentially has never been on a snowmobile; you never, ever, want to hit anything larger than maybe a cat with a snowmobile. There would be a real good chance that the operator would be just as messed up as the critter afterwards.
A buddy of mine in Minnesota tells me of snowmobiles capable of going over 100 mph. Is this true? Man, if you spear a deer going that fast, well, that’s a bit less noise then, eh? -don
Response:
More BS. Animals are known to avoid the noisey machines.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Another fantasy from the mind of Peter Bucy. "Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals." That’s real funny Peter! Hell, if the animals dared step out onto those paths they’d get run down in a matter of seconds. The truth is: from the article: "…the park’s legendary bison, who, in fleeing the noisy snowmobiles, are forced farther into deeper snow where it is harder to find food." But as always with the this generation of bastardized republicans: "screw the environment, screw the wildlife. Show me the money" Actually, it was reported on a story on either PBS or the Discovery Channel that many animals make use of the paths that are cut by snowmobiles. They said that the noise didn’t really have much of an impact on the wildlife. Pete Peter Bucy Peter Bucy
Response:
I have found that my tractor mower does not scare deer, squirrels, or most birds. They adapt. Then they eat my garden.
You should see the turkey’s in northern michigan. Whole damn family was munching out at my 50 yard pistol target. Great seeing them but I had to go out and shoe them away so I could get time on my range. Reminds me of the time I came home at 11:30 PM carrying in my groceries. All of a sudden I heard a whop, whop, whop which sounded like a helo squadron. I dropped my bags and froze in my last step. The moonlight gave me a hint, I just stepped into a flock of turkeys taking their repast. The next morning, I got a picture of 40+ turkeys having a feast in my yard. As long as we are leaving them be, they seem to sense that and do their thing. Make a good day, Wes
Response:
But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility. Amen to that. If there’s one thing that is getting harder and harder to find these days, it’s peace and quiet.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t realize just how saturated our lives are with noise until they actually get to a place and hear nothing. It’s nice; it’s actually unusual, but most don’t really appreciate it until they hear it at least once. I think that with 99% of the land already available to the motor-heads they don’t need every single square inch. Evidentially has never been on a snowmobile; you never, ever, want to hit anything larger than maybe a cat with a snowmobile. There would be a real good chance that the operator would be just as messed up as the critter afterwards. A buddy of mine in Minnesota tells me of snowmobiles capable of going over 100 mph. Is this true? Man, if you spear a deer going that fast, well, that’s a bit less noise then, eh?
Sure; you can get top-of-the-line sleds (commercial) that say 140-160 on the speedo, but most reasonably good ones top out at around 60-80 or so. The ones available to me (I burned mine up a few years back and never considered it a priority to replace it) typically top out at around 100. When your ass is about a foot over the surface it seems like you’re going much faster. Really a rush. It gets you from one side of the lake (about the only place where you can unwind them) to the other quite rapidly. Doing anything over 20-30 on the trails is sheer nuts, but some people do it anyway. Some people die too. The windshield is about 2-1/2 feet off the ground and is Plexiglas that is unsupported at the top -like a bike windscreen. You don’t ’spear’ a deer on one : you take it in the face and most of the time you don’t have time to duck. You can’t really stop or turn that fast either, even if you do see it coming. Ditto with branches or barbed wire (that gets *real* nasty). — JLG
Response:
I am encouraged to hear that you place some value on peace and quiet in the wilderness. Too many people go tearing through our backcountry on ATVs, dirt bikes and snowmobiles without the slightest consideration for others. Recently I took my 4WD way back in and set up camp next to a quiet peaceful stream. No sooner had I set up my tent then this idiot comes tearing through my camp on a dirt bike. Not once, but back and forth right through the middle of my campsite. When he stopped long enough to have a conversation he acted amazed that his activities were pissing me off. He said he was having so much fun he never thought he was bothering anyone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Pete I don’t think that this Kevin Collins guy knows what the hell he’s talking about. One of the big reasons that I get up to the Boundary Waters is to get a bit of peace and quite, if I wanted the never-ending drone of outboards, jet-skis, dirt bikes, snowmobiles, and so on I could easily go to any one of hundreds of more local areas. It’s really nice to be able to sit back and hear -nothing-, or at least nothing man-made, for at least a few weeks out of the year. The critters seem to adapt to the racket fairly fast, once they realize that it’s not a threat. Personally, I think the whole issue of the effects of noise on wildlife is blown out of proportion: we have lots & lots of local animals (deer, smaller mammals, birds, and so forth: some of them are supposed to be quite rare) and it doesn’t seem to have slowed them down at all. Heck, about 2 miles away we have some bald eagles that have their nest right on the fence-line of a gravel pit. We have a place that raises elk and another that has about a doz. Buffalo, they don’t even look up at the traffic going by anymore. They just tune it out. But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility. Had to do a double take on Chaka’s comment about the critters being run down if they stepped onto the snowmobile/dirtbike trails. Evidentially has never been on a snowmobile; you never, ever, want to hit anything larger than maybe a cat with a snowmobile. There would be a real good chance that the operator would be just as messed up as the critter afterwards. — JLG
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Pete
I don’t think that this Kevin Collins guy knows what the hell he’s talking about. One of the big reasons that I get up to the Boundary Waters is to get a bit of peace and quite, if I wanted the never-ending drone of outboards, jet-skis, dirt bikes, snowmobiles, and so on I could easily go to any one of hundreds of more local areas. It’s really nice to be able to sit back and hear -nothing-, or at least nothing man-made, for at least a few weeks out of the year. The critters seem to adapt to the racket fairly fast, once they realize that it’s not a threat. Personally, I think the whole issue of the effects of noise on wildlife is blown out of proportion: we have lots & lots of local animals (deer, smaller mammals, birds, and so forth: some of them are supposed to be quite rare) and it doesn’t seem to have slowed them down at all. Heck, about 2 miles away we have some bald eagles that have their nest right on the fence-line of a gravel pit. We have a place that raises elk and another that has about a doz. Buffalo, they don’t even look up at the traffic going by anymore. They just tune it out. But still, I’m in favor of keeping the racket out of at least some areas. For us, for the tranquility. Had to do a double take on Chaka’s comment about the critters being run down if they stepped onto the snowmobile/dirtbike trails. Evidentially has never been on a snowmobile; you never, ever, want to hit anything larger than maybe a cat with a snowmobile. There would be a real good chance that the operator would be just as messed up as the critter afterwards. — JLG
Response:
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. ….which allows bison to wander out of the park and spread disease, and then get shot.
They can wader as they please except during periods of high snow. Why doesn’t the Park Service inoculate these critters? Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
Actually, it was reported on a story on either PBS or the Discovery Channel that many animals make use of the paths that are cut by snowmobiles. They said that the noise didn’t really have much of an impact on the wildlife. Pete
I take it that the noise wouldn’t bother you if you were seeking some quiet and solitude and perhaps had skied or snowshoed in, or even gotten off your own screaming machine for a few minutes of peace? I guess for some people the sound of snow falling is just too terrifying to behold, and the idea of using physical means to do anything other than turn an ignition switch is positively horrific. Too bad – you’re missing some of our greatest blessings. -don
Response:
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. ….which allows bison to wander out of the park and spread disease, and then get shot.
You are one miserable lady. Cheer up a little. Read some Teddy Roosevelt and perk up or at least share less of your depression with everyone around you.
Response:
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals.
….which allows bison to wander out of the park and spread disease, and then get shot.
Response:
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals.
Plus you’d never get your fat ass anywhere without a 500lb machine to make a trail for you. Wayne
Response:
Another fantasy from the mind of Peter Bucy. "Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals." That’s real funny Peter! Hell, if the animals dared step out onto those paths they’d get run down in a matter of seconds. The truth is: from the article: "…the park’s legendary bison, who, in fleeing the noisy snowmobiles, are forced farther into deeper snow where it is harder to find food." But as always with the this generation of bastardized republicans: "screw the environment, screw the wildlife. Show me the money"
Actually, it was reported on a story on either PBS or the Discovery Channel that many animals make use of the paths that are cut by snowmobiles. They said that the noise didn’t really have much of an impact on the wildlife. Pete Peter Bucy
Peter Bucy
Response:
Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban
Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
Another fantasy from the mind of Peter Bucy. "Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals." That’s real funny Peter! Hell, if the animals dared step out onto those paths they’d get run down in a matter of seconds. The truth is: from the article: "…the park’s legendary bison, who, in fleeing the noisy snowmobiles, are forced farther into deeper snow where it is harder to find food." But as always with the this generation of bastardized republicans: "screw the environment, screw the wildlife. Show me the money" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban Good! Snowmobiles create paths in the snow that help deer, elk, and other animals. Pete Peter Bucy
Response:
Just one more in a long string of environmenally destructive moves, the Bush administration is planning to lift Yellowstone’s ban on snowmobiles. The following quote sums up Bush’s arrogance and in-your-face attitude: "Kevin Collins, director of park recreation and use for the National Parks Conservation Association, an environmental group focused on protecting the parks, said he believed the administration would favor the (snowmobile) industry, regardless of public opinion." Bush May Lift Park’s Snowmobile Ban