I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…
Sometimes people who look as though they should be able to walk, just don’t have the ability. They shouldn’t be denied the chance to get some exercise. It took everything my wife had to walk the International a couple of years back (she had a very serious car accident a couple of years before then). If she had to walk and play it would have been impossible. I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
I think this is the primary reason. Occasionally resort courses with steep paths between holes and such find that carts are necessary to keep the people moving at a reasonable rate. That’s the fault of the designers.
I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
Yes… It’s a money issue. While it is possible to play faster in a cart, this is usually not the reality. And the course gets the extra revenue from the cart rental. You see people buzzing back and forth all over the fairway like it’s a Nascar event, leaving tire marks and churning up the course when it’s wet. Before everyone jumps on me, let me say that I sometimes ride a cart when I’m playing with people who ride, and there are plenty of cart riders who are very careful and courteous. It’s just my personal opinion that carts are bad for the game and the courses. I don’t think it’s the way the game was meant to be played. You see a lot of courses being built now days that are clearly designed for carts only. The distances from the green to the next tee is longer than the previous hole. It’s ludicrous! What bugs me more than seeing some fat guys riding a cart, smoking and throwing their butts everywhere with a cooler full of beer, is some teenagers riding carts. What? They’re in the prime of their lives and they can’t walk? Give me a break.
I’m in complete agreement. I’m a little torn on the subject because the fact that courses are counting on cart revenues more and more is terrible while on the course but it probably helps my pocketbook. I see the carts as a way to subsidize my green fees and keep them a little lower. I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. I think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts are a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my chip shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ? Yes… It’s a money issue. While it is possible to play faster in a cart, this is usually not the reality. And the course gets the extra revenue from the cart rental. You see people buzzing back and forth all over the fairway like it’s a Nascar event, leaving tire marks and churning up the course when it’s wet. Before everyone jumps on me, let me say that I sometimes ride a cart when I’m playing with people who ride, and there are plenty of cart riders who are very careful and courteous. It’s just my personal opinion that carts are bad for the game and the courses. I don’t think it’s the way the game was meant to be played. You see a lot of courses being built now days that are clearly designed for carts only. The distances from the green to the next tee is longer than the previous hole. It’s ludicrous! What bugs me more than seeing some fat guys riding a cart, smoking and throwing their butts everywhere with a cooler full of beer, is some teenagers riding carts. What? They’re in the prime of their lives and they can’t walk? Give me a break.
Yes… It’s a money issue. While it is possible to play faster in a cart, this is usually not the reality. And the course gets the extra revenue from the cart rental. You see people buzzing back and forth all over the fairway like it’s a Nascar event, leaving tire marks and churning up the course when it’s wet.
This is of course the irony of the money issue. The carts put some extra money in the till today, while the damage they do to the course and all the extra facilities they need simply get lumped into the cost of operating the course. I suspect it’s still positive for the course, but not as positive as a lot of people think. Who ever worried about aerating fairways before you had armies of 800 turf rollers going over them every day? Who ever needed cart paths, cart barns, charging facilities, etc. before carts became the natural way for most to play? Before everyone jumps on me, let me say that I sometimes ride a cart when I’m playing with people who ride, and there are plenty of cart riders who are very careful and courteous. It’s just my personal opinion that carts are bad for the game and the courses. I don’t think it’s the way the game was meant to be played.
I agree with you for the most part. It’s not that carts are bad per se. Many people now play with physical conditions that would have sidelined them in the past. What’s bad for the game is the assumption that it’s played from the seat of a cart. When that assumption became commonly held, a lot of people who would in the past have walked now take a cart just because everyone else is doing it, and that’s what allowed course operators to get away with mandatory cart policies and causes the bulk of the damage to courses. It was a very sudden transition here. The course I play is dead flat with no long green to tee distances, and yet probably 75 or 80% of the people are now in carts. I think carts dominate even on the par 3 9 holer in town. When most people just assume they have to get in a cart to play, course operators are also under pressure to allow them out or forgo the be business every time it gets wet, so courses take a lot more abuse now than when many were more than willing to play without a cart. You see a lot of courses being built now days that are clearly designed for carts only. The distances from the green to the next tee is longer than the previous hole. It’s ludicrous!
That’s partly the assumption that it’s okay to have a golf course like this because everyone rides anyway, partly real estate developers trying to maximize the number of lots they can put on the course, and in some cases due to very restrictive environmental laws that prevent the developer from simply draining the swamps and putting the fairways there like they did so often in the past. I just don’t play layouts like this unless I’m on vacation in a resort. They usually aren’t all that enjoyable anyway, as you face the hazard of breaking someone’s windows or beaning someone’s kids on every hole. One of these layouts in my area even decided to make all the fairways crowned a bit and put "environmentally sensitive areas" along the sides between the fairway and the housing, meaning that anything even a little off line is lost. Since the whole layout, houses and course, is a converted cornfield it’s hard to see how any of it could be sensitive, so I suspect it’s just a ploy to keep you out of the yards. Not the kind of golf I enjoy! What bugs me more than seeing some fat guys riding a cart, smoking and throwing their butts everywhere with a cooler full of beer, is some teenagers riding carts. What? They’re in the prime of their lives and they can’t walk? Give me a break.
The fat guys in carts I see at least usually look like they couldn’t walk 18 holes, even on a flat course. What I find more amazing is the number of fit looking 20-somethings who always ride. Some of these guys have conditions you can’t see that would make it difficult for them, but many are I think just used to the idea that golf is played in carts and costs an extra $20 bucks a round. Of course there are also a lot of course operators who have "specials" where they practically give the cart away at particular times or in particular seasons. Often you can ride for the same price as walking. This strikes me as a little like handing out drugs for free. People who ride get used to it and to some extent get physically addicted (i.e. without regular excercise walking 18 holes isn’t easy). Just standard marketing though. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. I think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts are a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my chip shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart.
The last tournament I went to, I paid for 9 holes of cart. (I knew I was going to do a lot of walking the next day and know how my feet feel after walking a round of golf) I walked the front and rode the back. One advantage of this over riding a cart is that I was carrying my bag without any extra weight. This meant that when I did need to walk, I just pulled my bag off the cart and carried it over to where I was taking my shot.
Carts are income producers, although they do allow some who might not otherwise be able to play, the chance to get out. 2 cents
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
I’m in complete agreement. I’m a little torn on the subject because the fact that courses are counting on cart revenues more and more is terrible while on the course but it probably helps my pocketbook. I see the carts as a way to subsidize my green fees and keep them a little lower. I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. I think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts are a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my chip shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart.
In some cases, walking is *not* the way to go. I don’t like seeing courses designed around carts (I *hate* cart paths), but in many cases it’s a far better choice for people. When we played RSG-Wisconsin this year, we had 3 consecutive rounds on Platteville’s course. It’s a hilly bugger, not overly so, but there are no holes in which you have a simple, flat walk from tee to green. Asking–expecting–people to play three rounds in a row (two on Saturday) on that course would have made it very *unenjoyable* for many (excepting Thor, of course). Since we had 4 rounds in under 48 hours, it seemed to me to be reasonable that people would ride at least one, perhaps all, the rounds in Platteville. Many *can’t* reasonably walk, especially our course. Leg problems, feet problems, back problems, whatever. Three players on our course have electric caddies, remote-controlled carts that allow them to walk w/o pulling or carrying. Nice option, I wish I had one, as pulling that pull-cart up those hills can be tiring and it’s hard on my back. What I don’t like is requiring people to use carts if they don’t want to, or using cart paths in close proximity to areas of play (I hate it when my ball hits one of those paths). We have minimal paths here, mostly around the tee where there’s high traffic. Every path has a bare spot where it meets the grass. Some have argued for extending them at least some of the way down the fairway, but I don’t get the point: All that does is change where the bare spot is. Mike Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
you want to hear something funny (not really)….there was a threesome behind my threesome the other day. well those bastards kept almost hitting us. I mean, like with feet. So after a while, I want to see who it is….it’s this one lady, with her fat husband and her fat son and she’s the only one walking…..grrrr…
I wouldn’t be surprised in this case if they had medical reason for riding. It is unusual for guys to let a gal show them up otherwise.
I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
Well, I just found out that the course I play all the time(just got back into it, joined there this year) is probably going by the wayside. Fairly short 9 hole course that’s easily walkable. I say easily in that it’s no more than 50yds from green to next tee, and no major inclines getting there. *g* All the other courses here in my area are either too hilly to walk or have been designed such that you have to use a cart. At one new course, the first tee is about 1/4 mile from the clubhouse, winding up a very steep hill. Other greens to tees aren’t terrible, but from 9 to 10 is almost like getting to 1, well, actually farther, but not nearly as steep. Bad part is, if/when my "home" course closes, that’s basically the end of walking the course for me. 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ? Well, I just found out that the course I play all the time(just got back into it, joined there this year) is probably going by the wayside. Fairly short 9 hole course that’s easily walkable. I say easily in that it’s no more than 50yds from green to next tee, and no major inclines getting there. *g* All the other courses here in my area are either too hilly to walk or have been designed such that you have to use a cart. At one new course, the first tee is about 1/4 mile from the clubhouse, winding up a very steep hill. Other greens to tees aren’t terrible, but from 9 to 10 is almost like getting to 1, well, actually farther, but not nearly as steep. Bad part is, if/when my "home" course closes, that’s basically the end of walking the course for me.
Wow, I feel for you. I guess I’m lucky the two closest courses to me are $16 and $22 to walk, and they are both very walker friendly.
Of course there are also a lot of course operators who have "specials" where they practically give the cart away at particular times or in particular seasons. Often you can ride for the same price as walking. This strikes me as a little like handing out drugs for free. People who ride get used to it and to some extent get physically addicted (i.e. without regular excercise walking 18 holes isn’t easy). Just standard marketing though.
The course nearest my house is very walker friendly, $22 to walk and $34 to ride, but they have a afternoon special. After 3:00 PM it’s $20 to ride all the holes you want until dark. That’s hard to pass up.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in complete agreement. I’m a little torn on the subject because the fact that courses are counting on cart revenues more and more is terrible while on the course but it probably helps my pocketbook. I see the carts as a way to subsidize my green fees and keep them a little lower. I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. I think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts are a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my chip shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart.
I always shoot a lower score when I walk. For some reason riding a cart makes me feel rushed. I agree with you about the cart around the green thing. When my chip is on the other side of the green I hate to take several clubs over there only to find out none if them is the one I really need. Another thing… Theonly time I’ve ever lost a club is when I was riding. When you’ve got your bag right there, you simply replace the chipping club and draw out the putter.
I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
Strictly a money issue, but i also agree with one of the other posters that some of the damage done by carts, especially on wet courses, negates the $$$ to some extent. And carts do not speed the pace,, unless there is some significant distance betweeen holes. Cart path only golf is almost a guaranteed 4.5+ hour round. I think it is very sad that most courses are not designed with walking in mind. And i think it is very, very sad when I see 85 year olds walking every day at my club and 15 year olds are riding. I am beginning to think that the new generation of golfers think that riding IS part of golf, where in fact it is a major departure from the heritage of our game. Eric
Just because golf is a sport doesn’t mean people try to get excercise from it. I play on the weekends for fun, and I like to hvae a few beers and generally just relax and play with my buddies. I don’t mind walking, but it’s impossible to enjoy a beer or seven while doing so. Give me a cart anyday, I save my workouts for the weekdays. JL
you want to hear something funny (not really)….there was a threesome behind my threesome the other day. well those bastards kept almost hitting us. I mean, like with feet. So after a while, I want to see who it is….it’s this one lady, with her fat husband and her fat son and she’s the only one walking…..grrrr… Desi
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
Just because golf is a sport doesn’t mean people try to get excercise from it. I play on the weekends for fun, and I like to hvae a few beers and generally just relax and play with my buddies. I don’t mind walking, but it’s impossible to enjoy a beer or seven while doing so. Give me a cart anyday, I save my workouts for the weekdays. JL
Well, my tradeoff would be skip the cart and the workouts and play at least 9 walking before or after work every day. Heck of a lot more fun than a treadmill. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m in complete agreement. I’m a little torn on the subject because the fact that courses are counting on cart revenues more and more is terrible while on the course but it probably helps my pocketbook. I see the carts as a way to subsidize my green fees and keep them a little lower. I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. I think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts are a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my chip shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart.
An interesting statistic: Q: Which Senior Tour players have the lowest scoring agerage? A: The ones who still walk. Q: Which Senior Tour players have the higest scoring agerage? A: The ones who ride. Coincidence… I think not. ;-) PS: Yes, I know that more than likely the ones who walk are the 50 year old kids, and the ones who ride are the 65 year old grandads.
: <snip : : I would love to convince these cart people that walking is the way to go. : I : think that you can play just as fast while walking. The only time carts : are : a real factor is for those damn long green to tee distances and sometimes : after the tee shot. Walking has a clear advantage around the green which : makes up for some of that lost time. I hate carrying three clubs to my : chip : shot only to wish that I had another one that is back in the cart. I often have to excuse myself from the green before my playing partners are done putting in order to get to the next tee (there are a few REALLY long green-to-tee distances at my home course), but other than that I don’t have any trouble keeping up when walking. : : I always shoot a lower score when I walk. For some reason riding a cart : makes me feel rushed. I agree with you about the cart around the green : thing. When my chip is on the other side of the green I hate to take : several clubs over there only to find out none if them is the one I really : need. Another thing… Theonly time I’ve ever lost a club is when I was : riding. When you’ve got your bag right there, you simply replace the : chipping club and draw out the putter. : I don’t _always_ score lower when I walk, but I’ve been thinking lately about how most of my really bad rounds had come when I rode in a cart. Like Mike, I don’t like it when riding in a cart is mandatory — my home course allows walking, but they don’t do anything to encourage it (other than not charging for the cart if you walk). There are no benches on the tees, the first place to sit down is on a short rock wall at the 17th tee. And there are only two ball-washers on the course, one on #1 and one on #10. Of course the carts all have ball-washers attached to them. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=oinesroald Please remove the under_scores if sending me mail.
I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ?
Yeah, I find it sad when I see a bunch of thin people in a cart too. I don’t think clubs should make carts mandatory. It should be each golfers choice if they want to use a cart or not. I’m a heavy guy and find walking a golf course (9holes or 18) a great source for exercise. When I play courses that are not flat, have a lot of hills and upslopes, it just reminds me that I need to be in better shape. Sometimes when I’m in a cart with other golf buddies, one of us sometimes passes the other players drive spot (if we are in the fairway) so there is backtracking. I know this can happen if you walk vs. carting it, but in my experience it seems less and less. The only time I don’t argue as much to using a cart is when I’m playing golf in Sacramento, CA where it can get 90 to 100+ degrees (but Palm Springs can be worse!). — Jon (LABER1)
you want to hear something funny (not really)….there was a threesome behind my threesome the other day. well those bastards kept almost hitting us. I mean, like with feet. So after a while, I want to see who it is….it’s this one lady, with her fat husband and her fat son and she’s the only one walking…..grrrr…
Thaty would happen only once…I’ll give people the benefit of a doubt but if I’m playing at a good pace and someone tries to shell me they’ll find their ball in the nearest trap if they find it at all. If I’m playing slow and the hole is clear in front of me I’ll let a faster group play through..if I get shelled and deserve it I’ll suck it up but if I’m moving along and some idiot wants to play up my ass their ball will go missing..in the drink / sand / trees…
So now using carts becomes a value judgment — too hot carts are ok — what difference does it make if I use a cart and you want to walk? You play your game and I’ll play mine. I am a 10 handicap but because of a ankle problem I cannot walk or stand for long periods of time — so I shouldn’t play because I can’t walk? Get a life
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ? Yeah, I find it sad when I see a bunch of thin people in a cart too. I don’t think clubs should make carts mandatory. It should be each golfers choice if they want to use a cart or not. I’m a heavy guy and find walking a golf course (9holes or 18) a great source for exercise. When I play courses that are not flat, have a lot of hills and upslopes, it just reminds me that I need to be in better shape. Sometimes when I’m in a cart with other golf buddies, one of us sometimes passes the other players drive spot (if we are in the fairway) so there is backtracking. I know this can happen if you walk vs. carting it, but in my experience it seems less and less. The only time I don’t argue as much to using a cart is when I’m playing golf in Sacramento, CA where it can get 90 to 100+ degrees (but Palm Springs can be worse!). — Jon (LABER1)
I always shoot a lower score when I walk. For some reason riding a cart makes me feel rushed. I agree with you about the cart around the green thing. When my chip is on the other side of the green I hate to take several clubs over there only to find out none if them is the one I really need. Another thing… Theonly time I’ve ever lost a club is when I was riding. When you’ve got your bag right there, you simply replace the chipping club and draw out the putter.
If you have a cart bag and a carry bag, you might consider leaving your cart bag at home. When you need to carry clubs around, pick up your bag off your cart and take it to where you’re making your shot.
90-100 degrees and probably dry heat at that. Try south Florida with temperatures approaching 100 in the summer with 90% humidity. That is when a cart feels very, very good. Almost all courses in south Fla. require carts, mainly for money raising purposes, but without them, there would be far fewer players on the courses from May through October.. I wouldn’t be one of them! Don D.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I almost never use a cart…I golf partly for the exercise. I think it’s sad when I see a bunch of heavy people hop into a cart to play a round when they could clearly use the exercise…I see more clubs are making carts manditory although it really doesn’t speed things up…do they do it for the money ? Yeah, I find it sad when I see a bunch of thin people in a cart too. I don’t think clubs should make carts mandatory. It should be each golfers choice if they want to use a cart or not. I’m a heavy guy and find walking a golf course (9holes or 18) a great source for exercise. When I play courses that are not flat, have a lot of hills and upslopes, it just reminds me that I need to be in better shape. Sometimes when I’m in a cart with other golf buddies, one of us sometimes passes the other players drive spot (if we are in the fairway) so there is backtracking. I know this can happen if you walk vs. carting it, but in my experience it seems less and less. The only time I don’t argue as much to using a cart is when I’m playing golf in Sacramento, CA where it can get 90 to 100+ degrees (but Palm Springs can be worse!). — Jon (LABER1)
I don’t mind walking, but it’s impossible to enjoy a beer or seven while doing so. Give me a cart anyday, I save my workouts for the weekdays.
I don’t mind trying to think straight and hit straight, but it’s impossible (for me) to enjoy a beer or seven while doing so.
I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;)
check out Golf Club Review. com ….. they just had a review of this putter recently ….. hope this helps, ron
I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;) check out Golf Club Review. com ….. they just had a review of this putter recently ….. hope this helps, ron
Just wanted to say Thank You to all who put forth their opinions like I asked. And yes Ron, that site did help. Thanks. JesterX
I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;) The Nike OZ putter has caught my eye. Not only for it’s looks but for the way in which the rear perimeter weight is "supposed" to allow for smoother and truer rolls with less skidding during the first few inches of travel. I was hoping to find some opinions on it’s real world play-abiltiy and we all know that this group is full of opinions. 
So any thoughts good or bad would be helpful.
I tried an OZ for the first time today. My first impression was that it looked great, as all Nike clubs do. Based purely on looks (and let’s be honest here – what else do we base putter performance on?) I would definitely consider it if I was in the market for a new putter. In the end I really don’t think anything else matters. Why? Because the best putter I’ve ever played with uses an old Bullseye his father gave him when he was a kid. Going by all the new theories about weighting and balance, that thing has to be the most unhelpful putter ever made. But he has never used anything else and doesn’t want to. Neither would I if I could putt like him.
I tested the 34" model and liked the way it felt. I would have liked a 35" better. I didn’t really like the way it lined up though. I play with an Acuity that I got from Dick’s on sale for $25 and I putt like a champ. I laugh at people who pay $100+ for a putter and can’t putt half as good as I can.
How about this… I paid $15 for a used Wilson BlackJack putter. It’s a face balanced mallet and love it. I picked up a mid-length Carbite a while back and couldn’t even get close to how I’m putting these days
I was hoping to find some opinions on it’s real world play-abiltiy and we all know that this group is full of opinions. So any thoughts good or bad would be helpful. JesterX
I have been using a 2-ball Odyssey for a year or so. I saw the OZ in the local pro-shop and gave it a try. I have to say I hated it. It was too light for me and I didn’t like the sound the ball made off the face. On the other hand, my wife thought it was terrific. As always, I think it’s a case of try before you buy. Cheers Ewan
I don’t know about the Nike putter, but recently after 10years or so of playing I have moved from a normal/traditional putter to the RAM ZEBRA Classic mallet putter and I can say for sure it has knocked strokes off my game. It is a real game improvment putter. It has true face balancing so if you strike the ball off by a touch the face stays flush. Its also has the best grip I have ever held and feels great to put with and its easier then any putter I have ever had to line upto the cup. You can buy them pretty cheap now, and they have been around forever which is why i bought it. must be good or they would still not make them. something else for you to look at. you can also add more weight to the bottom by unscrewing the bottom plate to customize the putter. know you asked for nike but im just so happy with my new zebra i thought id give you something else to look at. Zebra is also an attractive putter too. CHEERS John. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;) The Nike OZ putter has caught my eye. Not only for it’s looks but for the way in which the rear perimeter weight is "supposed" to allow for smoother and truer rolls with less skidding during the first few inches of travel. I was hoping to find some opinions on it’s real world play-abiltiy and we all know that this group is full of opinions. So any thoughts good or bad would be helpful. JesterX
I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;) The Nike OZ putter has caught my eye. Not only for it’s looks but for the way in which the rear perimeter weight is "supposed" to allow for smoother and truer rolls with less skidding during the first few inches of travel. I was hoping to find some opinions on it’s real world play-abiltiy and we all know that this group is full of opinions. So any thoughts good or bad would be helpful. JesterX
Well, Tiger doesn’t use one and he sure as hell needs some putting help.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have decided it’s time to change to a heavier "mallet-style" putter. My putting game is fine, but as is typically the case with most of us, it could always be better. ;) The Nike OZ putter has caught my eye. Not only for it’s looks but for the way in which the rear perimeter weight is "supposed" to allow for smoother and truer rolls with less skidding during the first few inches of travel. I was hoping to find some opinions on it’s real world play-abiltiy and we all know that this group is full of opinions. So any thoughts good or bad would be helpful. JesterX
I tested the 34" model and liked the way it felt. I would have liked a 35" better. I didn’t really like the way it lined up though. I play with an Acuity that I got from Dick’s on sale for $25 and I putt like a champ. I laugh at people who pay $100+ for a putter and can’t putt half as good as I can.
These are official statisical designations…however, I count unencumbered putts from the fringe as a green in reg and a putt for my own personal stats. Thus, I hit more greens and take more putts (about one a round more) that I would if I used the official PGA way of keeping stats. By the way…putts per round is a nearly useless stat
Useless for determining the US Open champion? Yes. Useless for determining the best putter on Tour? Yes. Useless for evaluating your game in general? No.
Useless for determining the US Open champion? Yes. Useless for determining the best putter on Tour? Yes. Useless for evaluating your game in general? No.
But I think the point is that it doesn’t necessarily tell you how well someone is putting. A low putts per round could mean they had a lousy day hitting GIRs but chipped well. I think is was on the European PGA site that I saw both a putts-per-round" AND a "putts-per-GIR" stat. I think those together paint a more complete picture. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Useless for determining the US Open champion? Yes. Useless for determining the best putter on Tour? Yes. Useless for evaluating your game in general? No. But I think the point is that it doesn’t necessarily tell you how well someone is putting. A low putts per round could mean they had a lousy day hitting GIRs but chipped well. I think is was on the European PGA site that I saw both a putts-per-round" AND a "putts-per-GIR" stat. I think those together paint a more complete picture.
You are right that both putts per round and putts per GIR together paint a more complete picture but at the same time either figures on its own can tell you a lot if sufficient rounds are used to compile the statistic. Also there are a few key statistics for which there is sufficient supporting data to enable a player to make a good estimate of they playing skill in certain areas of their game. For example if a player averages 30 putts per round then they are putting at about the standard of a scratch player if however they only manage 2 GIRs then they are playing to about a 25 handicap. If you assemble a good enough picture then statistics can be quite revealing in what they show to be a players weakness on the course.
Two friends of mine play together on a regular basis. They bet small amounts of money on the fewest putts in the course of 18 holes. What happened was that one persons ball was on the green. He hit his first putt off the green. He used his putter to hit the ball back onto the green, because the pin was close by, and hit the ball a third time into the hole. The question that was posed to me was did he 3 putt or 2 putt. The person who did all of the puttng said he 2 putted and according to the rule book he had, the second shot that he made with his putter was technically a chip. The other person said he 3 putted.
The PGA doesn’t pay attention to what club is used. Once the ball is sitting on the green, all subsequent shots are counted as putts.
Not ‘all subsequent shots’!! If you putt and your ball goes off the green your next shot is not a ‘putt’ for statistical purposes. Only strokes made at a ball while it is on the green are counted as ‘putts’…even if they are played with a wedge, and even if they are ‘chipped’, as has been known to happen. cheers david
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Useless for determining the US Open champion? Yes. Useless for determining the best putter on Tour? Yes. Useless for evaluating your game in general? No. But I think the point is that it doesn’t necessarily tell you how well someone is putting. A low putts per round could mean they had a lousy day hitting GIRs but chipped well. I think is was on the European PGA site that I saw both a putts-per-round" AND a "putts-per-GIR" stat. I think those together paint a more complete picture.
Yeah, for sure. But it’s one of those things where it *might* definitely tell you something. 31 putts might not tell you anything, but 37 does.
Only strokes made at a ball while it is on the green are counted as ‘putts’…even if they are played with a wedge, and even if they are ‘chipped’, as has been known to happen.
Yup, saw it at a US Open one time.
31 putts might not tell you anything, but 37 does.
Yeah, it does! Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
The PGA doesn’t pay attention to what club is used. Once the ball is sitting on the green, all subsequent shots are counted as putts. Not ‘all subsequent shots’!! If you putt and your ball goes off the green your next shot is not a ‘putt’ for statistical purposes. Only strokes made at a ball while it is on the green are counted as ‘putts’…even if they are played with a wedge, and even if they are ‘chipped’, as has been known to happen.
Are you sure? I could easily be wrong, and would like to see a citation either way. To me it makes sense to count all strokes caused by bad putting (and that’s what I do when I track my putts). But it’s up to the PGA (and other tour) to decide how they track pro statistics.
Two friends of mine play together on a regular basis. They bet small amounts of money on the fewest putts in the course of 18 holes. What happened was that one persons ball was on the green. He hit his first putt off the green. He used his putter to hit the ball back onto the green, because the pin was close by, and hit the ball a third time into the hole. The question that was posed to me was did he 3 putt or 2 putt. The person who did all of the puttng said he 2 putted and according to the rule book he had, the second shot that he made with his putter was technically a chip. The other person said he 3 putted.
If he was on the PGA tour, the statistics keepers would have put down 3. And I would agree that his putting cost him 3 strokes (even if one of those was a chip). But PGA statistics aren’t Rules of Golf.
If he was on the PGA tour, the statistics keepers would have put down 3. And I would agree that his putting cost him 3 strokes (even if one of those was a chip).
I’m told I am wrong here – but you might wait to see if someone has a citation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But PGA statistics aren’t Rules of Golf.
Are you sure? I could easily be wrong, and would like to see a citation either way.
I do not have a citation to quote….but every time I have done walking ‘rules’ at a PGA or ‘Open’ event we have also been required to maintain statistics for each player in the group…..and to this end a ‘putt’ is simply a stroke made at the ball while it is on the green. Apart from this and total strokes for each hole we are also required to make note of ’sand saves’ (ie ‘up and down’ from greenside bunkers). Most of these tasks are usually maintained by the lady ’score-keepers’ who walk with each group…….but as the ‘rules’ man with each group is in charge of and responsible for all extraneous activities surrounding the group (eg score board carriers, group ‘marshalls’, crowd control people, bunker maintenance marshalls etc etc) it is the ‘rules’ man who usually ends up telling the score-keepers what actually happened! cheers david
Officially, it doesn’t count as a putt unless it’s on the green. Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
For what purpose are you counting your putts? How the PGA counts them may or may not be the way you want to count them. The PGA doesn’t pay attention to what club is used. Once the ball is sitting on the green, all subsequent shots are counted as putts. If this is useful to you, you can count it the same way.
These are official statisical designations…however, I count unencumbered putts from the fringe as a green in reg and a putt for my own personal stats. Thus, I hit more greens and take more putts (about one a round more) that I would if I used the official PGA way of keeping stats. By the way…putts per round is a nearly useless stat
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt? Once a stroke has been played from the putting green, that stroke and any others played subsequently at that hole are counted as putts regardless of the club used or the location of the ball when the stroke is played. That wasn’t the question, David. If you’re on the collar, having not reached the green, and you leave the pin in, we know that it isn’t counted as a putt. However, I’ve been told that if you have the pin removed, or tended, it *is*. Have a ruling for that?
My answer covers that. If you haven’t yet played a stroke from the putting green, then it’s not a putt. Note, there’s no official Rules of Golf method for counting putts. http://www.usga.org/rules/faq/index.html (under Misc.) or: http://www.usga.org/rules/faq/main.asp?FAQidx=123 — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
No it is not considered a putt. Steve
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt? Once a stroke has been played from the putting green, that stroke and any others played subsequently at that hole are counted as putts regardless of the club used or the location of the ball when the stroke is played.
That wasn’t the question, David. If you’re on the collar, having not reached the green, and you leave the pin in, we know that it isn’t counted as a putt. However, I’ve been told that if you have the pin removed, or tended, it *is*. Have a ruling for that? ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk
In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
Once a stroke has been played from the putting green, that stroke and any others played subsequently at that hole are counted as putts regardless of the club used or the location of the ball when the stroke is played. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd
no..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In the course of 18 holes, you count all of your putts. Your ball is off the green when you hit it with your putter. Is that stroke counted as a putt?
I think he was making a joke. "If I say this beach is safe to surf, it’s safe to surf." Of course, I could be wrong
You’re not. :-) Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
It was the official that was on the green at the time. I don’t know who it was. I heard the official say "You can use a towel if I say you can use a towel". Was it Robert Duval??
I love the smell of guano on a towel…smells like….Victory!!!!
How many of us wankers out there have done the same thing, wipe the shit with the putter and then rub it off in the grass off the green, hit the face with a towel and then miss the 10 footer.
How about this strategy: miss the putt first, then wipe the shit with the putter. Come one, the stick deserves it Ulrich
I heard the official say "You can use a towel if I say you can use a towel".
Was it Robert Duval?? Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
It was the official that was on the green at the time. I don’t know who it was.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I heard the official say "You can use a towel if I say you can use a towel". Was it Robert Duval?? Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
I think he was making a joke. "If I say this beach is safe to surf, it’s safe to surf." Of course, I could be wrong – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It was the official that was on the green at the time. I don’t know who it was. I heard the official say "You can use a towel if I say you can use a towel". Was it Robert Duval?? Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
– Jim Sabatke Hire Me – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
From Decesion 16-1a/8 Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible? A. No. Such action is a breach of Rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch his line of putt in removing loose impediments only with his hand or a club. Seems pretty clear to me. So how come, after Langer consulted with the Rules official, his caddie got to use a towel to brush the bird shit off of the line of his putt? Are these guys making up the rules as they go or what????? Even the announcers seemed dumbfounded and Frank Hannigan didn’t seem to be able to explain it away either. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for poor sportsmanship"
I heard the official say "You can use a towel if I say you can use a towel".
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Decesion 16-1a/8 Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible? A. No. Such action is a breach of Rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch his line of putt in removing loose impediments only with his hand or a club. Seems pretty clear to me. So how come, after Langer consulted with the Rules official, his caddie got to use a towel to brush the bird shit off of the line of his putt? Are these guys making up the rules as they go or what????? Even the announcers seemed dumbfounded and Frank Hannigan didn’t seem to be able to explain it away either. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for poor sportsmanship"
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -From Decesion 16-1a/8 Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible? A. No. Such action is a breach of Rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch his line of putt in removing loose impediments only with his hand or a club. Seems pretty clear to me. So how come, after Langer consulted with the Rules official, his caddie got to use a towel to brush the bird shit off of the line of his putt? Are these guys making up the rules as they go or what?????
Loose means "having relative freedom of movement." I wouldn’t consider most bird crap to be "loose." I had some on my car that took me a good 2 minutes to get off.
Seems to me the correct answer is, scoop up the bird shit with your putter and then have your caddy wipe it off the putter with his shirt tail, or towel if he prefers. How many of us wankers out there have done the same thing, wipe the shit with the putter and then rub it off in the grass off the green, hit the face with a towel and then miss the 10 footer. No brainer
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Decesion 16-1a/8 Q. A player touches his line of putt in brushing aside loose impediments with his cap or with a towel. Is this permissible? A. No. Such action is a breach of Rule 16-1a, which permits the player to touch his line of putt in removing loose impediments only with his hand or a club. Seems pretty clear to me. So how come, after Langer consulted with the Rules official, his caddie got to use a towel to brush the bird shit off of the line of his putt? Are these guys making up the rules as they go or what????? Even the announcers seemed dumbfounded and Frank Hannigan didn’t seem to be able to explain it away either. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for poor sportsmanship"
My method Ball forward, well forward. Open stance Clubface is pointing toward target. This means the club is square to target, but open to stance.
Thanks for all the responses. Fortunately, there is a course near work that features a practice bunker! dc
I don’t know what you consider a "good" player. I’ve been as low as 10.5 and my current index is 14.0.
Someone whose game is in the direction I’m working hard to approach. You more than qualify. However, if the ball is sitting up and a properly executed shot will clear the lip, I’ll often go for it. And yes, it is still a bunker shot. The reason for that is that just like any other bunker shot, your set-up and club selection will almost certainly be different than if you were playing from the fairway or rough. Also, I try to keep my lower body still when playing bunker shots, regardless of length. That is because sand is typically loose and even dug in, it is very easy for your feet to slip or move during the back or downswing. So my bunker shots are executed mainly with my upper body and with minimal leg movement.
Ahh. I tend to play with pretty hard sand bunkers where the ball often sits up, and footing is rarely loose (at least with my style). I tend to hit those balls just as far from a bunker than from the grass. Only when I have to blast the ball out that I do anything differently. That said, last June I went to Keystone (and will do it again next month), and discovered that they have very soft sand. I had to blast both times I was in and my shots were unpredictable – I had never practiced in anything like it – especially the River Course. Makes me wonder how much advice about sand traps is universal. Minimally PGA pros test the sand to gauge feel before a tournament.
If I have a 200+ yard bunker shot, the ball had better be sitting on top of the sand. Then it no longer is a bunker shot – other than I can’t ground the club. I just get out whatever club I would be using if it were on the grass and hit it. If the ball is imbedded, then all I try for is a recover – and I have a 10-20 yard shot to the fairway. Having read your post, I am curious what good players do here. Do they treat 200+ yard shots from a bunker as "bunker shots"?
I don’t know what you consider a "good" player. I’ve been as low as 10.5 and my current index is 14.0. In my case, yes, from 200 yards it is still a bunker shot, whether you are just trying to pop it back into the fairway or are going for the green. Just like any other bunker shot, there are a tremendous number of variables that when considered together, dictate the shot I will attempt. From 200 yards if the ball is embedded or there is a lip I wouldn’t be able to clear I treat the shot just like I would if it were from a greenside bunker. The #1 priority is to get the ball out of the bunker and #2 is to advance the ball towards the hole as much as possible, but only so long as it doesn’t create any risk for priority #1. However, if the ball is sitting up and a properly executed shot will clear the lip, I’ll often go for it. And yes, it is still a bunker shot. The reason for that is that just like any other bunker shot, your set-up and club selection will almost certainly be different than if you were playing from the fairway or rough. Also, I try to keep my lower body still when playing bunker shots, regardless of length. That is because sand is typically loose and even dug in, it is very easy for your feet to slip or move during the back or downswing. So my bunker shots are executed mainly with my upper body and with minimal leg movement. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
For real long fairway bunker shots (200+ yards) some better players may even have a square or slightly closed stance.
If I have a 200+ yard bunker shot, the ball had better be sitting on top of the sand. Then it no longer is a bunker shot – other than I can’t ground the club. I just get out whatever club I would be using if it were on the grass and hit it. If the ball is imbedded, then all I try for is a recover – and I have a 10-20 yard shot to the fairway. Having read your post, I am curious what good players do here. Do they treat 200+ yard shots from a bunker as "bunker shots"?
Description ‘ala’ Bobby Jones. I watched his show on TGC on bunker play and your description basically tells it as that. He just varied his swing length and power according to what the lie dictated. Works for me no matter what bunker conditions I seem to get into. Well, unless I’m buried in the back lip. —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc My method Ball forward, well forward. Open stance Clubface is pointing toward target. This means the club is square to target, but open to stance.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face."
My sand save percentage out of greenside bunkers is around 60% (no, I am not kidding). For a normal bunker shot, for me this means the lip is low to medium height, I square up to the ball and open the club face. I control the length of the bunker shot with the take away. The follow-through is always–well, almost always completed fully. This enusres that I accelerate through the ball. At the worst, the ball is on the green, at best, it is right next to the hole. I also keep my lower body very still. Contrary to popular opinion, I also do not dig my feet in to the sand. The reason for doing so is to test the softness of the sand. I find that by entering the bunker and taking a normal stance, my feet find their own depth. If the sand is hard, or there is little of it, then I will know simply by the fact that my feet are still on top of the sand. Sometimes I can get fooled when the top layer is soft and their is very little sand underneath; however, I can dig my feet in to any type of sand, so how is that going to help me. At my home course, we have the worst bunkers that you can imagine. Some are soft, with a lot of sand. Some are hard, with hardly any sand. Some are combinations therein. There is no real consistency from one bunker to the next, but I manage to get around. I open my stance when I am in very deep greenside bunkers, since the ball needs to be played similarly to a flop shot. The take away is very steep, and the clubface is as open as I can get it. It is important to try and not take too much sand with this type of shot, since this has the tendency to push the ball forward, but the ball needs to get up as quickly as possible. For fairway bunkers, the mistake that I see many people make is that they dig their feet in to the sand to deeply and forget to choke down on the club to compensate, they use too much of their lower body causing the ball to enter the sand at the wrong spot (basically causing a fat shot out of the bunker), and swing too quickly (causing them to lose their balance). IMHOm, the fairway bunker shot requires a slightly open stance and the setup should be for a slight fade, since the right hand does a bit more work than during a normal shot from the fairway. <snipped Thanks, dc
David
I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
My method Ball forward, well forward. Open stance Clubface is pointing toward target. This means the club is square to target, but open to stance.
I think you will find over time bunker shots are a bit of a feel thing. Off relatively firm sand with a lot of green and not much lip, a squared face can be effective. The softer the sand, the higher the lip, the more you need to open the face. The design of the sandwedge, innovated by Gene Sarazen, calls for the club to push the sane away, almost skip through the sand. It does this with its round "bounce" that you lead with when you open the clubface. Where a square approach can be very effective is when dealing with bad lies. In those cases the ball is sitting down. Skipping through the sand won’t help much because at best you might skull the ball. — Joe
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
Hello there, Myself I open the face up a bit. (for green side) and also open my stance. I usually try and think of this. If you were to put a score card in the sand, and place a ball in the middle of it, then take your club and try and swipe the card. I usually try and hit say 3" in front of the ball or bit more, and follow thru under the the ball. If you can think of the score card idea. Swipe the card from side to side, and you will get your ball up and on. Now also take into consideration how deep the bunker is. LOL I kid you not, but when I was younger my grandpa had me out in his Sr. Scramble at the club! Lol I was a jr. One bunker our team was in and DECIDED TO SHOOT from was a greenside bunker with almost no lip. they used their putters out of it and got close to the pin because their was no lip. So take in mind instead of using a SW, etc. Try a 9i and just use the 9i like a putter to get it up a few inches and roll it upto the pin. I don’t claim to be the best bunker player, I do try to avoid them at all cost as I hate to be in them, but practice and getting the feel is the only way to become good at getting out. Hope this helps you out a bit. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc I’ve found Dave Pelz’s instruction in his "Short Game Bible" very helpful with bunker shots. Actually, I’ve found the entire book quite helpful, and recommend taking a look at it. Essentially, Pelz has you open the clubface and stance, but as a variant on his standard "finesse wedge" shot, with the ball played further up in the stance than usual. This (ideally) causes you to hit an inch or two behind the ball, producing the proper trajectory and spin. But the short answer is that I do open my stance and clubface. Good luck! Best, Ken Meltzer
Thanks for the response! I’ll take a look at Pelz’s book. dc
<snipped I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
I use both and every combination in between, depending on the circumstances. McCord’s recommendation will get you out of a bunker and if it is greenside, has a good chance of getting you at least into the fringe, if not on the green. The "Beat Bad Advice" article can work well for getting out of fairway bunkers than have relatively low lips. No 2 bunker shots will be exactly the same. How you set up is highly dependent on the lie of the ball, how close to and how far below the lip the ball is, how far it is to the edge of the green, how far to the pin, uphill or downhill stance, uphill or downhill green, consistency of the sand and numerous other factors. For short, high shots, open the face and your stance. For longer shots the clubface and stance should not be as open. For real long fairway bunker shots (200+ yards) some better players may even have a square or slightly closed stance. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
Open club face (SW) and open stance is fine. For me the biggest thing is to ensure I have my weight on the left side. If your weight is even or more to the right you will leave the ball short most of the time as if you are scooping or trying to help it out. With the weight on the left side I have been able to drive through the sand with more confidence and get it to my target. good luck. W
Try splitting the difference. If I have a high lip to carry, a very open clubface is the way to go. Otherwise, I use a partially open face (half-way between square and "wide open"), along with hitting an inch or so behind the ball, confident and full follow through. I always make a full follow through. I negotiate distance by how open or square I set the clubface. Trial and error lets you know what those distances are. 2Katz
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
Dan, For a short carry (20 – 30 feet) I might be as much as 30 degrees open and maybe approaching 45 with a wide open clubface. As the length of carry grows I get closer to a square stance – though never being completely square with a SW from around the green (even with a 20-30 yard shot). The open stance and clubface helps the club bounce thru the sand and not dig as if it was square. Too often the beginner will decelerate and dig the club into the ground instead of trying to hit the sand onto the green and just letting the ball go for the ride. Hope this helps… Jeff
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
<< I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc I’ve found Dave Pelz’s instruction in his "Short Game Bible" very helpful with bunker shots. Actually, I’ve found the entire book quite helpful, and recommend taking a look at it. Essentially, Pelz has you open the clubface and stance, but as a variant on his standard "finesse wedge" shot, with the ball played further up in the stance than usual. This (ideally) causes you to hit an inch or two behind the ball, producing the proper trajectory and spin. But the short answer is that I do open my stance and clubface. Good luck! Best, Ken Meltzer
Hello, I am a beginning golfer. Last year, I read McCord’s book "Golf for Dummies," and was going over his description of bunker shots. McCord advises people to open their stance and clubface "Until you feel silly" when playing a bunker shot. In a May 2003 Golf Magazine article entitled "Beat Bad Advice (Swing Myths)" by John Elliott and Greg Midland, they write: "MYTH: In the sand, open your stance and clubface" They go on to say "Granted an open clubface and stance are useful to produce extra loft, but for a standard sand shot, try a square stance and face." I had been using McCord’s advice and found that while the ball would almost always get out of the bunker, it would rarely get more than a couple feet past the lip. For giggles, I tried the square address method a few times in the practice bunker and on the course and found I had a bad tendency to blade the ball about 40 yards. I was wondering what method others use (open vs square) and if they have any opinions or preferences on which way to handle a ’standard’ greenside bunker shot. Thanks, dc
Interesting call about the Nikes. Bridgstone makes both the Precept and Nike balls. The first Nike balls were just slight cover variation on the Precept MC Double Cover. – So I wonder what new Nike balls now relate to the new Precepts. I guess I’ll go pay a visit to the websites. BTW I love the -George
$34 for a ball !! I don’t nomally follow threads about new equipment, but now I understand. For $34 I could play 18 holes, and have lunch in the clubhouse afterwards ! What is the going resale price for found balls? maybe I can find a few and go on that vacation trip after all
Which Pro V1 are you talking about..the Pro V1X ? Have not tried them yet, but don’t think there is much difference between the Nike balls and the Pro V1* I have been playing…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting call about the Nikes. Bridgstone makes both the Precept and Nike balls. The first Nike balls were just slight cover variation on the Precept MC Double Cover. – So I wonder what new Nike balls now relate to the new Precepts. I guess I’ll go pay a visit to the websites. BTW I love the -George Try the Nike Distance Soft-Feel balls..right now about $15.99 a dozen at Target and a few other places. Hi everybody! (hello, doctor Nick!) Played my best round of the year today (only nine holes, but I have to slip out before work). Only hit 2 fairways and 2 greens (made par (5) both times) but no 3 putts! Saved par twice, and saved an amazing bogey on the ninth – tee shot out of bounds, the reload went in a fairway bunker, out to the 200 yard stake, perfect 4 iron 8 feet from the pin! Oh yeah, and I sank the putt… shot 41 front nine at http://www.trilliumwood.com/index.html Anyway, the question: I was using TopFlite XL2000 spin/XL3000 super spin/Z balata balls; I don’t think they are actual balata, just have a little balata mixed in the cover. I was hitting greens and backing the ball 10 feet off the front. I don’t hit the ball that hard – pw about 115-120 with the spin balls. I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
snippittall….. Learn to put spin on the ball and use more rock like balls. For me, the more my swing is dominated but an up and down shoulder rotation, the more the ball spins. Again, for me, practicing hitting the ball off hardpan gives me the best feel for spin. Problem is, of course, that I tend to hit the ball a little fat (taking a divot…looking good to the unwashed, but in reality hitting a fat shot with very little spin!) and that can get painful from hardpan.
I second the Precept U-Tri recommendation. They go about as straight as anything that isn’t a rock but chip and putt intermediate between a distance rock and a ProV1 or similar. They have a nigh-indestructable urethane cover, too. My experience is with the U-Tri Extra Distance but the U-Tri extra spin is very similar, according to Precept’s marketing literature. Brent Hutto
Try the Nike Distance Soft-Feel balls..right now about $15.99 a dozen at Target and a few other places.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody! (hello, doctor Nick!) Played my best round of the year today (only nine holes, but I have to slip out before work). Only hit 2 fairways and 2 greens (made par (5) both times) but no 3 putts! Saved par twice, and saved an amazing bogey on the ninth – tee shot out of bounds, the reload went in a fairway bunker, out to the 200 yard stake, perfect 4 iron 8 feet from the pin! Oh yeah, and I sank the putt… shot 41 front nine at http://www.trilliumwood.com/index.html Anyway, the question: I was using TopFlite XL2000 spin/XL3000 super spin/Z balata balls; I don’t think they are actual balata, just have a little balata mixed in the cover. I was hitting greens and backing the ball 10 feet off the front. I don’t hit the ball that hard – pw about 115-120 with the spin balls. I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
Interesting call about the Nikes. Bridgstone makes both the Precept and Nike balls. The first Nike balls were just slight cover variation on the Precept MC Double Cover. – So I wonder what new Nike balls now relate to the new Precepts. I guess I’ll go pay a visit to the websites. BTW I love the -George
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the Nike Distance Soft-Feel balls..right now about $15.99 a dozen at Target and a few other places. Hi everybody! (hello, doctor Nick!) Played my best round of the year today (only nine holes, but I have to slip out before work). Only hit 2 fairways and 2 greens (made par (5) both times) but no 3 putts! Saved par twice, and saved an amazing bogey on the ninth – tee shot out of bounds, the reload went in a fairway bunker, out to the 200 yard stake, perfect 4 iron 8 feet from the pin! Oh yeah, and I sank the putt… shot 41 front nine at http://www.trilliumwood.com/index.html Anyway, the question: I was using TopFlite XL2000 spin/XL3000 super spin/Z balata balls; I don’t think they are actual balata, just have a little balata mixed in the cover. I was hitting greens and backing the ball 10 feet off the front. I don’t hit the ball that hard – pw about 115-120 with the spin balls. I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
You can check out the features at the Precept Golf web site. – George
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody! (hello, doctor Nick!) Played my best round of the year today (only nine holes, but I have to slip out before work). Only hit 2 fairways and 2 greens (made par (5) both times) but no 3 putts! Saved par twice, and saved an amazing bogey on the ninth – tee shot out of bounds, the reload went in a fairway bunker, out to the 200 yard stake, perfect 4 iron 8 feet from the pin! Oh yeah, and I sank the putt… shot 41 front nine at http://www.trilliumwood.com/index.html Anyway, the question: I was using TopFlite XL2000 spin/XL3000 super spin/Z balata balls; I don’t think they are actual balata, just have a little balata mixed in the cover. I was hitting greens and backing the ball 10 feet off the front. I don’t hit the ball that hard – pw about 115-120 with the spin balls. I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
Hi everybody! (hello, doctor Nick!) Played my best round of the year today (only nine holes, but I have to slip out before work). Only hit 2 fairways and 2 greens (made par (5) both times) but no 3 putts! Saved par twice, and saved an amazing bogey on the ninth – tee shot out of bounds, the reload went in a fairway bunker, out to the 200 yard stake, perfect 4 iron 8 feet from the pin! Oh yeah, and I sank the putt… shot 41 front nine at http://www.trilliumwood.com/index.html Anyway, the question: I was using TopFlite XL2000 spin/XL3000 super spin/Z balata balls; I don’t think they are actual balata, just have a little balata mixed in the cover. I was hitting greens and backing the ball 10 feet off the front. I don’t hit the ball that hard – pw about 115-120 with the spin balls. I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
Either way sounds good. Are you somewhat more aggressive when you chip? If not, then stay with what you have.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everybody! Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1. Thanks, Telson
I am now playing Wilson hyper-titanium straight distance (rocks, just experimenting) which fly really nice off the tee and out of the fairway, I one-hop-and-stop them with full shots, but the greens are still pretty soft from the winter snow melt. Surprisingly they feel pretty good off the putter, but: No check/spin on chip shots – which is playing merry hell with my judgement of distance. Is there anything out there that spins fairly low (I am really enjoying the straight flight of these balls) that feels a little better on the chips/pitches? Or should I just re-adjust my chipping/pitching to leave the ball shorter and release more? Please keep in mind I am on a tight budget – I can’t afford the Pro V1.
As a rule, there’s a tradeoff between spin and distance–the balls that spin the best tend to get lesser distance. This is less the case than it used to be–balls like the ProV1 generate a lot of distance while retaining the ability to spin around the green. And there are others. Unfortunately, you’re not likely to find a ball that does what you want it to do, i.e., behave like a rock off the tee and from the fairway, and be spinnable with chip shots. If you need/want to retain the distance elements of that ball (and the budget-friendliness, too), you’ll have to come up with a different expectation about chipping, expecting the ball to roll further. You might consider using a club to chip with that gives you a little more air-time on your chips. I chip exclusively with my PW, and I can control how high the shot is by where I position it in my stance (and I let the wrists release when I hit the shot, which takes some of the spin off). So far as I know, there’s really only one place a low, spinning chip shot has a lot of value: Hitting off a bare lie over an obstacle (like a trap) to a close pin. Normally you’d lob something like that, but the tight lie makes it tough. The other alternative is to hit a lower shot with a lot of spin. But those shots are fairly rare–I haven’t had one in probably the last 25 rounds. Frankly, I don’t like spin on chips–I’ve found that I’m less accurate with a spinning low chip than with one that hits and releases readily. What you might do is see if this is the same for you. Try comparing the accuracy of both types of chips. Do, say, 20 of each, and see what the average miss distance is. I did this a couple years ago, through dozens of trials I proved to myself that the low running chip produces the best miss distance. I compared to lobs, to the low spinning chip, and the running chip. The running chip won, hands down. Do some experimenting and see which works best for you. Good luck! Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mailed it back to me. I hope it does not take up too much of your time. I appreciate your help – Thanks…. Terry 1) Are you an American or a Canadian?
Remember that there are people of other nationalities out here! Anyway, whats the purpose of this survey, will your findings be published? — Russell McGinnis, Software Engineer RCP Consultants Ltd. Didcot, UK.
: I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and : e-mailed it back to me. I hope it does not take up too much of your time. : I appreciate your help – Thanks…. : Terry : 1) Are you an American or a Canadian? Uhhhh … Canadians are americans, so are poeple who live in the United States, and in Mexico. North America is a continent. And then there’s always the people who golf in Argentina (that’s a country on the continent called South America). : 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season? Nope, don’t play ‘clubs’, just muni’s and public courses. : 3) Do you use cash or credit card? Yes. : 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want? No. : 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want? As i said, we don’t do ‘clubs’. : 6) Do you have difficulty contacting the club? ie: the line is busy or : your put on hold See above. : 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arrangements? As long as it takes, hell it’s their nickle, 1800teetime. : 
Do you receive good service from the club over the telephone? No, but we usually do from the person who answers the phone. : 9) Do you receive good service from the club when in the pro shop? We don’t shop in the pro shop. : 10) Do you plan your game in advance or last minute? I require a minimum of 3 minutes notice to play. The clubs are in the trunk, but I have to put a message on the answering machine that sez we are out of the office right now etc etc and that takes a few minutes. : 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service? Only if it came with crumpets. : 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees) As little as possible. : 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available? Yes. : 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a ‘virtual club’ for : public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course? Geeezzzzz … no golf course ?? Huhh? What? Does it have a restaurant? G’Day Oh … Why did you post your message twice ?? Only a thought 
. . John aka / . / . DearOldDad / /.Fore!/ / . Thought for the day : from the / / // / . Damn, missed again Pocono Mtns / / / / / . PA USA / / / / / / . e-mail to / / / / / // . . . | / / / / / / / / . . . .. |
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mail : back to me. Please do not post to the news group. I hope it doesn’t take : too much of you time and again, thanks for your help. : 1) Are you Canadian or American? Neither. : 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season? I play with14 golf clubs. 1W,4W,5W, 3-9,PW,2 SW, and putter. : 3) Do you prefer to use cash or a credit card? Neither. I like to get things for free. : 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want? Of course not. Its not a perfect world. : 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want? No, I simply look at my watch. : 6) Do you have trouble contacting the club? No. I have trouble contacting the ball. : 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arranegements? I rarely make arranegements on the telephoen. : Do you receive good service over the telephone? It depends if the person on the phone is in a good mood. : 9) Do you receive good service while you are in the pro shop? No, but I receive a lot of advice. : 10) Do you plan your games in advance or at the last minute? I usually but not always plan my games one minute in advance of the last minute
. Sometimes I plan my games in the shower. : 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service? I buy my tees at the local golf discount store. : 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees) Not much. Mostly on tees when I forget to bring the ones I bought at the local
golf discount store. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -: 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available? Only when I have to go to the washroom. : 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a "virtual club" of : public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course. I’d rather be affiliated with a private club. Hope this helps with your market research. Excellent questions! KJPC
I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mailed it back to me. I hope it does not take up too much of your time. I appreciate your help – Thanks…. Terry 1) Are you an American or a Canadian? 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season? 3) Do you use cash or credit card? 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want? 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want? 6) Do you have difficulty contacting the club? ie: the line is busy or your put on hold 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arrangements? Do you receive good service from the club over the telephone? 9) Do you receive good service from the club when in the pro shop? 10) Do you plan your game in advance or last minute? 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service? 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees) 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available? 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a ‘virtual club’ for public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course?
: I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mail : back to me. Please do not post to the news group. I hope it doesn’t take : too much of you time and again, thanks for your help. : 1) Are you Canadian or American? Yes. : 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season? Several. I have a 2-SW, a lob wedge, 3 woods, and a putter. : 3) Do you prefer to use cash or a credit card? Yes. : 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want? Yes. I know all the course managers personally. : 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want? No. I just call the one where I want to play. : 6) Do you have trouble contacting the club? ie: the number busy or your : put on hold Nope. Phone works fine here. : 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arranegements? Not sure what you mean by ‘arranegements’. Is that like ‘tee time’ ? : Do you receive good service over the telephone? Yes. Again, phone works fine here. : 9) Do you receive good service while you are in the pro shop? Don’t play in the pro shop. Play outside at the course. : 10) Do you plan your games in advance or at the last minute? Yes. : 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service? Can’t. Don’t have one. : 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees) Nothing. : 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available? Only if I am hungry or thirsty. : 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a "virtual club" of : public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course. Can’t. Don’t have one. Hope this helps with your market research. Good luck. Jim
I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mail back to me. Please do not post to the news group. I hope it doesn’t take too much of you time and again, thanks for your help. 1) Are you Canadian or American?
Canadian 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season?
Play several courses through the season 3) Do you prefer to use cash or a credit card?
Cash 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want?
Usually have pretty good luck 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want?
Sometimes 6) Do you have trouble contacting the club? ie: the number busy or your put on hold
Usually have pretty good luck getting through to the courses I play. Have never been put on hold 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arranegements?
Can usually make my arrangements in ten to fifteen mintes Do you receive good service over the telephone?
Yes 9) Do you receive good service while you are in the pro shop?
Yes 10) Do you plan your games in advance or at the last minute?
Generally I plan my games a week or so in advance. However I have decided to play the night before on occasion. 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service?
Possibly, it would depend on the service/cost. 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees)
approximately 15 minutes on average 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available?
Yes 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a "virtual club" of public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course.
It would depend on the nomimal fee and what was being offered It is better to have people think that you’re a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. / { (..) } { < } ~~
I would appreciate it if you completed the following questions and e-mail back to me. Please do not post to the news group. I hope it doesn’t take too much of you time and again, thanks for your help. 1) Are you Canadian or American? 2) Do you play several golf clubs or just one through the golf season? 3) Do you prefer to use cash or a credit card? 4) Are you always successful getting the tee time you want? 5) Do you have to call several clubs to get the time you want? 6) Do you have trouble contacting the club? ie: the number busy or your put on hold 7) How much time do you spend on the telephone making your arranegements? Do you receive good service over the telephone? 9) Do you receive good service while you are in the pro shop? 10) Do you plan your games in advance or at the last minute? 11) Would you use a centralized tee reservation service? 12) How much do you spend in the pro shop? (not including green fees) 13) Do you use the restaurant facilities when available? 14) Would you pay a nominal membership fee to join a "virtual club" of public players that is not affiliated with any particular golf course.
I am looking for people to take a golf survey for a class that I am taking in college. It will take about 5 mins of your time and would help me with my research. The link is as follows: www.onemammoth.com/golf Thanks for your help Russ
Ouch I noticed that you’re using surveymonkey.com (when you’re done with the survey it takes to you that page) Their pricing states it’s based on the number of responses . . . I hope the hoards of RSG aren’t sucking your wallet dry. Jason Britton
I am looking for people to take a golf survey for a class that I am taking in college. It will take about 5 mins of your time and would help me with my research. The link is as follows: www.onemammoth.com/golf Thanks for your help Russ
BTW, I was hesitant because I suspected it would eventually lead me to some sort of advertisement or sales pitch (I am skeptical, by nature), but it asked for no personal information, and didn’t offer anything but the survey itself. Thank you! Rick
Thanks Rick. I wouldn’t have bothered without your feedback or similiar. But it did seem legit.
I felt like I was taking an IQ test on question 19.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for people to take a golf survey for a class that I am taking in college. It will take about 5 mins of your time and would help me with my research. The link is as follows: www.onemammoth.com/golf Thanks for your help Russ The survey seems poorly designed, but legitimate. Some of the questions that allowed only one answer would have been better with "check all that apply" and the radio boxes section (rate from strongly disagree to strongly agree) really needs a bit of work. I suspect it is for a marketing research class and, as such, will help the instructor to illustrate how survey could ask for incomplete information just by their design. As a start, it is a fair effort. As a former marketing concentration MBA I think it has potential. In the real world it needs some refinement. Good start. BTW, I was hesitant because I suspected it would eventually lead me to some sort of advertisement or sales pitch (I am skeptical, by nature), but it asked for no personal information, and didn’t offer anything but the survey itself. Thank you! Rick
I want to thank everyone that has taking the survey so far. I will have it up until next friday 5/16/03, so if you could tell a friend I would appreieate it very much. The bigger the sample the better. Russ Any feedback is always welcome. Thanks for the advice on the survey!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I felt like I was taking an IQ test on question 19. I am looking for people to take a golf survey for a class that I am taking in college. It will take about 5 mins of your time and would help me with my research. The link is as follows: www.onemammoth.com/golf Thanks for your help Russ The survey seems poorly designed, but legitimate. Some of the questions that allowed only one answer would have been better with "check all that apply" and the radio boxes section (rate from strongly disagree to strongly agree) really needs a bit of work. I suspect it is for a marketing research class and, as such, will help the instructor to illustrate how survey could ask for incomplete information just by their design. As a start, it is a fair effort. As a former marketing concentration MBA I think it has potential. In the real world it needs some refinement. Good start. BTW, I was hesitant because I suspected it would eventually lead me to some sort of advertisement or sales pitch (I am skeptical, by nature), but it asked for no personal information, and didn’t offer anything but the survey itself. Thank you! Rick
Hello Everybody! We are a group of computer science students from the University of Toronto working on a design project of a portable device for golfers. Our current ideas for this portable golf device include an electronic score-card, a distance calculator using global positioning system (to measure distance from the golfer to different areas of a golf course), and possibly some tutorials on basic golf techniques. However, we want to get some feedback from the golfing community to determine exactly what are some of the features that they will actually use and will improve their golfing experience. Your responses to the following questions will be greatly appreciated, and will help us tremendously in designing a practical and usable device for the typical golfer. If possible, please answer all of the questions. But if you’re busy, it would still be very helpful if you can try to answer those questions with an asterisk beside it. You can reply to this message at All information gathered will remain confidential. The information may only be used for statistics analysis and idea generation. Thank you for your participation. We will keep you in touch for the progress of this device!! 1. How old are you? a) <18 years old b) 18-55 years old c) 55 years old **2. How frequent do you play golf? a) < 1-2 times / week b) 1-2 times / week c) 1-2 times / week 3. Do you usually walk when playing golf or drive a golf cart? a) walk b) golf cart c) others 4. Do you usually keep scores when playing golf? a) Yes b) No 5. If you answered yes to question 4, do you find that score keeping tedious and troublesome? a) Yes b) No **6. How often do you play golf for business reasons (to discuss contracts, meeting with boss, etc)? a) Very Often b) Occasionally c) Never **7. Would you consider yourself as a: a) Amateur Golf player (score 100 avg) b) Average Golf player (score 80-100) c) Expert Golf player (score <80) **8. Do you think a distance indicator (to indicate distance from you and different parts of a course) will help improve your game and enhance your golfing experience? a) Yes b) Maybe c) No **9. Do you think tutorials/lessons in this portable device will be helpful for amateur golfers (and other golfers)? a) Yes b) Maybe c) No **10. Do you think a ball finder feature in this device will be desirable? How accurate must it be to be useful? a) Useful, and needs to be very accurate b) Useful, doesn’t need to be too accurate c) Useless ***11. What are some of the biggest problems / inconveniences of playing golf? ***12. Do you have any ideas for us to incorporate into our golf device? Thanks! The Golf Ballz team
Use of your device would breech of the rules of golf. C.J. Elmore Toolmaker / Toolroom Supervisor WEB Tool (Remove ".no.junk" from e-mail address)
You need a bit more research. First, such a device is illegal under the rules of golf. Second, similar devices already exist! (They cannot be used in a tournament, only for practice). Many courses have the devices installed in golf carts. The device receives position information from GPS, then transmits it to a computer in the clubhouse. The computer, which is programmed with coordinates of all the holes and significant landmarks on the course, then transmits information to the cart. Usually it gives distance to the pin, distance to the front and back of the green, and often distance to bunkers. Many also transmit hints such as "keep the ball to the left of the fairway" or "a layup is the smart play." One local course also transmits messages such as "please pick up your pace; you are falling behind" and "we are aware of slow play and are trying to correct the situation." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Everybody! We are a group of computer science students from the University of Toronto working on a design project of a portable device for golfers.
in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
I don’t mind them using belly putters for putting. I do mind it when they use them to measure two club-lengths. IMO they should change the rule and just say seven feet for a drop, so it’s the same for everyone.
Seeing my girlfriend is the only one that handles my club I think it should be hands and mouth.
A belly putter? Isn’t that what Maggert tried to use out of the bunker today?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
My personal opinion is that when you "connect" a putter to the body by either jamming it in your belly or by holding it at the top as per a long putter, you’ve eliminated what I think of when we talk about "swinging" a club. Seems less than pure to me. But since everybody can use those methods whether they choose to or not, it’s not an unfair thing. The playing field *is* level. Further, golf isn’t "pure" anyway. Steel shafts instead of hickory? Metal "wood" heads instead of maple or persimmon? Trampoline faces on drivers? Balls that never cut but still hold the green nearly as well as balata, plus are longer? It’s not your father’s game any more, is it? Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!
in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
I like that idea! GH
I don’t mind them using belly putters for putting. I do mind it when they use them to measure two club-lengths.
Agreed. IMO they should change the rule and just say seven feet for a drop, so it’s the same for everyone.
It would be a lot simpler to allow any club except those longer than whatever number of feet. This way one would know whether he was allowed to use a given club for measuring ‘club-lengths’ at the time of purchase.
Allow the players to use their shortest iron as a "club-length". That’d stop the craziness when Langer & Rocco, et al, use a 5 foot club as a club-length. I don’t mind them using belly putters for putting. I do mind it when they use them to measure two club-lengths.
Agreed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IMO they should change the rule and just say seven feet for a drop, so it’s the same for everyone.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion? My personal opinion is that when you "connect" a putter to the body by either jamming it in your belly or by holding it at the top as per a long putter, you’ve eliminated what I think of when we talk about "swinging" a club. Seems less than pure to me. But since everybody can use those methods whether they choose to or not, it’s not an unfair thing. The playing field *is* level. Further, golf isn’t "pure" anyway. Steel shafts instead of hickory? Metal "wood" heads instead of maple or persimmon? Trampoline faces on drivers? Balls that never cut but still hold the green nearly as well as balata, plus are longer? It’s not your father’s game any more, is it? Mike
It’s not always your father’s game anymore, but it still is in many senses, I think. One of the great things about golf is that with all the modern balls, metal woods, steel, graphite and unobtanium shafts, etc. we can still all relive the history of the game every time we tee off. That’s part of the fun of the game–yes, the components are constructed of different materials, but the "theme" of the game is the same. The clubs are, in essence, the same. Ditto for the balls. Belly putters aren’t. They just don’t "fit" in my eyes. The only thing you should be able to touch the club with is your hands. They just rile up my (admitedly inconsistent) conservative sensibilities. Bob Ontario, California Who managed to card a 12 on a par 5 this weekend after losing a ball and grounding my club in a bunker. Jeez. If nothing else, golf really tells you who you are. If you’re the only one who knows you grounded your club, do you still have to add the penalty stroke?
<snipped Who managed to card a 12 on a par 5 this weekend after losing a ball and grounding my club in a bunker. Jeez. If nothing else, golf really tells you who you are. If you’re the only one who knows you grounded your club, do you still have to add the penalty stroke?
If you are a golfer, yes. — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
in my opion,(not to take anything away from vjay) i think that only two body parts should be aloud to touch the club and that is the hands. what is your opinion?
I agree. An even worse abomination IMO, are long and sidesaddle putters. ARGGHHH! — Dan Driscoll Member – NCGA RSG FAQ: http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=driscolld
I think I know the answer to this one, but I just want to check… A creek runs across the fairway, fronting the green. On one side, a bridge goes over the green, leading from the right side of the fairway to the right side of the green. A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? Randy
A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes?
I believe it’s in the hazard as far as a relief procedure, but you may ground your club on the bridge surface if you were to attempt to play a stroke from where it lies on the bridge. Something about the margin of the hazard extending only downwards? — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I think I know the answer to this one, but I just want to check… A creek runs across the fairway, fronting the green. On one side, a bridge goes over the green, leading from the right side of the fairway to the right side of the green. A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? Randy
Yes. Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for poor sportsmanship"
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? I believe it’s in the hazard as far as a relief procedure, but you may ground your club on the bridge surface if you were to attempt to play a stroke from where it lies on the bridge. Something about the margin of the hazard extending only downwards?
Acronymns used by Clyde Luther (rules official, USGA committee member, teacher of rules seminars….): WOBUD: Water, OB, upwards & downwards BGURD: Bunker, GUR, downwards The ball is in the water hazard (a spot from which relief from immovable obstructions is not granted). See Rule 13-4 (especially the note at the end) for *why* you may touch the bridge in playing a stroke from it. — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/charter.html If this post does not meet the goals of the charter, please email me.
I believe it’s in the hazard as far as a relief procedure, but you may ground your club on the bridge surface if you were to attempt to play a stroke from where it lies on the bridge. Something about the margin of the hazard extending only downwards?
The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards *and* downwards. The first thing you need to determine in this situation is whether the ball is within the boundaries of the hazard by looking along the lines or stakes (as Randy has done). Since the ball in this case is *in* the water hazard, Rule 24-2b dictates that you can’t get relief from any immovable obstruction (i.e. the bridge) in a water hazard. You must play the ball as it lies, or take the normal relief from the water hazard. If the ball had come to rest on any part of the bridge that was *outside* the hazard (as determined by the lines), then you can take relief from the bridge as an immovable obstruction, at the nearest point of relief. The reason you can ground your club is simple … the bridge decking is not considered to be the ground! — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Right idea, wrong thingee. ROG 26: "The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards and downwards." ROG Definitions: "The margin of a bunker extends vertically downwards, but not upwards. "
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? I believe it’s in the hazard as far as a relief procedure, but you may ground your club on the bridge surface if you were to attempt to play a stroke from where it lies on the bridge. Something about the margin of the hazard extending only downwards? — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
I figured as much, and assessed the penalty accordingly. I certainly could have played from the bridge, and would have (since it was a wooden bridge, I probably wouldn’t have damaged my club), but the ball came to rest against the "curb" on the bridge, blocking me from advancing the ball toward the hole. I actually would have loved to have tried hitting from the bridge, just to see how I’d have handled it. In the end, I took a drop. The only way to have advanced the ball from its position would have been to have putted it with the toe of the putter, left-handed, across the wooden slats to a position past the bridge but still short of the green to the right. Since the slats were uneven, the ball might well have hopped in the air and bounded down into the water. Wasn’t worth it. As it is, I dropped, hit a low punch to about 10 feet below the hole and made the putt for what, all in all, was a decent bogey, considering the two remarkably horrible shots that put me in that position in the first place. Thanks for the ruling, guys. I guessed right. Randy Voice acting for commercials, voiceovers for industrial narrations, training videos, "on-hold" messaging, radio and TV station imaging. Audio production. Find "aural satisfaction" at www.randybrown.us.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe it’s in the hazard as far as a relief procedure, but you may ground your club on the bridge surface if you were to attempt to play a stroke from where it lies on the bridge. Something about the margin of the hazard extending only downwards? The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upwards *and* downwards. The first thing you need to determine in this situation is whether the ball is within the boundaries of the hazard by looking along the lines or stakes (as Randy has done). Since the ball in this case is *in* the water hazard, Rule 24-2b dictates that you can’t get relief from any immovable obstruction (i.e. the bridge) in a water hazard. You must play the ball as it lies, or take the normal relief from the water hazard. If the ball had come to rest on any part of the bridge that was *outside* the hazard (as determined by the lines), then you can take relief from the bridge as an immovable obstruction, at the nearest point of relief. The reason you can ground your club is simple … the bridge decking is not considered to be the ground! — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
USGA Decision 13-4/30 BEGIN QUOTE Q. A player’s ball lies on a bridge over a water hazard within the margins of the hazard when extended upwards. May the player ground his club? A. Yes. A bridge is an obstruction. In a hazard, the club may touch an obstruction at address or in the backward movement for the stroke – see Note under Rule 13-4. Touching the bridge prior to address is also permissible, since an obstruction in a water hazard is not "ground in the hazard." This applies even if the bridge has been declared an integral part of the course. END QUOTE Tom Smith
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I know the answer to this one, but I just want to check… A creek runs across the fairway, fronting the green. On one side, a bridge goes over the green, leading from the right side of the fairway to the right side of the green. A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? Randy
Slightly different version of the original question. The entire ball is outside the margins of the hazard and the bridge railing which is fully within the margins of the hazard obstructs my stance or swing. Do I get relief per ROG 24 for the immovable obstruction? My buddy says no, but can’t provide a specific reference in either the ROG or the decisions.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I know the answer to this one, but I just want to check… A creek runs across the fairway, fronting the green. On one side, a bridge goes over the green, leading from the right side of the fairway to the right side of the green. A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? Randy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I know the answer to this one, but I just want to check… A creek runs across the fairway, fronting the green. On one side, a bridge goes over the green, leading from the right side of the fairway to the right side of the green. A ball comes to rest on the bridge, within the boundries of the red/orange line that is marked along the creek’s banks. But it’s not in the creek, it’s on the bridge. Is it on an immovable obstruction and therefore entitled to relief? Or is it in the hazard? I suspect it’s the latter. Yes? Randy
Yep….my home course has a hole just like the one you described, aptly numbered 13. -Greg
Slightly different version of the original question. The entire ball is outside the margins of the hazard and the bridge railing which is fully within the margins of the hazard obstructs my stance or swing.
It doesn’t matter whether the bridge railing is inside the hazard. The crucial point is *where your ball is*. If it is entirely outside the water hazard as you indicate, then you can take relief from any immovable obstruction that interferes with your stance or swing. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Slightly different version of the original question. The entire ball is outside the margins of the hazard and the bridge railing which is fully within the margins of the hazard obstructs my stance or swing. Do I get relief per ROG 24 for the immovable obstruction? My buddy says no, but can’t provide a specific reference in either the ROG or the decisions.
Show your buddy the definition of an obstruction: "An
off the USGA website here is the information on submitting a design: Submit a representative sample of your product to the Technical Department at the following address: USGA Technical Department Golf House Liberty Corner Road Far Hills, NJ 07931 Attention: Manager, Equipment Rulings Please contact the Technical Department to obtain an equipment submission form. Submissions without the form are considered incomplete and may delay processing. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for record purposes
thank you for the info on the usga, but I thought someone would Know what is legal for putters with out me sending a putter prototype. I want to use it not give it away. I just want to know the rules of what I can do to my clubs and what I can not do. someone on this form has got to be a golf club technical expert. max
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – off the USGA website here is the information on submitting a design: Submit a representative sample of your product to the Technical Department at the following address: USGA Technical Department Golf House Liberty Corner Road Far Hills, NJ 07931 Attention: Manager, Equipment Rulings Please contact the Technical Department to obtain an equipment submission form. Submissions without the form are considered incomplete and may delay processing. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for record purposes
can you put paint on your putter any way you want? and have a legal putter. can you cut it or grind it down? and still be legal? thanks max
I guess I can do any kind of painting on the putter head I want.from what I read. I am still unclear on the part that says exceptions may be made for putters. appendages to the main body of the head such as knobs, plates rods of fins, for the propose of meeting dimensional specifications for aiming of for any other purpose. EXCEPTIONS MAY BE MADE FOR PUTTERS. WHAT ARE THE EXCEPTIONS? how can I design a putter with out knowing the exceptions? if I want a bump on top of my putter is that a knob? does some one Know the exceptions. max
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See Appendix II of the ROG at http://www.usga.org/rules/rules_2002_03/index.html can you put paint on your putter any way you want? and have a legal putter. can you cut it or grind it down? and still be legal? thanks max
You can’t have those things on anything but putters. My suggestion would be to design the club and send to the USGA for their opinion/approval of the design. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I can do any kind of painting on the putter head I want.from what I read. I am still unclear on the part that says exceptions may be made for putters. appendages to the main body of the head such as knobs, plates rods of fins, for the propose of meeting dimensional specifications for aiming of for any other purpose. EXCEPTIONS MAY BE MADE FOR PUTTERS. WHAT ARE THE EXCEPTIONS? how can I design a putter with out knowing the exceptions? if I want a bump on top of my putter is that a knob? does some one Know the exceptions. max See Appendix II of the ROG at http://www.usga.org/rules/rules_2002_03/index.html can you put paint on your putter any way you want? and have a legal putter. can you cut it or grind it down? and still be legal? thanks max
can you send a photo of the club to the usga technical department? max
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – off the USGA website here is the information on submitting a design: Submit a representative sample of your product to the Technical Department at the following address: USGA Technical Department Golf House Liberty Corner Road Far Hills, NJ 07931 Attention: Manager, Equipment Rulings Please contact the Technical Department to obtain an equipment submission form. Submissions without the form are considered incomplete and may delay processing. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for record purposes Don’t bother to submit a putter with wheels on it though, they already have one of those: http://rec-sport-golf.com/USGA/wheelie.html But is it legal? This one could bring whole new meaning to the phrase, "The wheels fell off my game"… Eliyahu
Don’t bother to submit a putter with wheels on it though, they already have one of those: http://rec-sport-golf.com/USGA/wheelie.html But is it legal? This one could bring whole new meaning to the phrase, "The wheels fell off my game"…
It’s in a big display case marked ‘non-conforming clubs.’ The display case includes the relevant part of the rules that explain why each club does not conform. My photos don’t show the description for that club, unfortunately. — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/charter.html If this post does not meet the goals of the charter, please email me.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – off the USGA website here is the information on submitting a design: Submit a representative sample of your product to the Technical Department at the following address: USGA Technical Department Golf House Liberty Corner Road Far Hills, NJ 07931 Attention: Manager, Equipment Rulings Please contact the Technical Department to obtain an equipment submission form. Submissions without the form are considered incomplete and may delay processing. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for record purposes Don’t bother to submit a putter with wheels on it though, they already have one of those: http://rec-sport-golf.com/USGA/wheelie.html
But is it legal? This one could bring whole new meaning to the phrase, "The wheels fell off my game"… Eliyahu
thank you for the info on the usga, but I thought someone would Know what is legal for putters with out me sending a putter prototype. I want to use it not give it away. I just want to know the rules of what I can do to my clubs and what I can not do. someone on this form has got to be a golf club technical expert.
If you are designing something that looks like a traditional putter don’t worry about it. If it isn’t traditional in looks and whatever only the ruling body can determine that one. If you plan on using it in a sanctioned tournament then your going to have to get it approved if you are in doubt… and somehow using the excuse that someone of RSG said it was legal aint gonna work;) Your best bet is to get in touch with the R&A or USGA and get the info you require. Rod
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – off the USGA website here is the information on submitting a design: Submit a representative sample of your product to the Technical Department at the following address: USGA Technical Department Golf House Liberty Corner Road Far Hills, NJ 07931 Attention: Manager, Equipment Rulings Please contact the Technical Department to obtain an equipment submission form. Submissions without the form are considered incomplete and may delay processing. The sample becomes the property of the USGA for record purposes
Don’t bother to submit a putter with wheels on it though, they already have one of those: http://rec-sport-golf.com/USGA/wheelie.html — http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=hayesd http://rec-sport-golf.com/newsgroup/charter.html If this post does not meet the goals of the charter, please email me.