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Big Break – Match Play fun

admin — Fri, 12 Dec 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Maybe there just isn’t enough golf played in match rather than medal play… I saw some of the BB replayed on TGC last night, and wondered about two of the conceded putts. On 15 (or 14?), Justin appeared to put the head of his putter in the cup, as though he was eyeballing whether or not Anthony’s ball was "within the leather". Seemed like an odd way to determine whether or not to concede. On 16, Anthony conceded a short putt (18 inches or so) to go dormie. Why would you *ever* concede a putt like that to go dormie? Is that just "good sportsmanship", or bad judgment? I would not have given it, not at that point, and not with my game struggling over the past couple of holes as Anthony’s was. It seemed like a last chance to put some pressure on Justin, and try to get a change in the momentum, which was all going to Justin at that point. And the good old Golf Channel’s main page for the BB describes the match as Justin defeating Anthony 3 & 1. That seems a bit harsh – did they penalize Anthony for conceding that putt? And finally, Rick Smith has a few tips on "Match Play Strategy". He begins by saying you have to "play the course", then immediately says to watch your opponent’s shots and change your club selection based on his shot. Then he says you have to "play to your own strengths, not what your competitor is doing", and in the next sentence suggests that "You can even watch the mannerisms of your competitor to sense how well they’re feeling. If your competitor starts getting nervous it’s almost a sure thing that their routine is going to change. That may mean they’re on the verge of falling apart". Seems like odd advice if you’re playing the course, not worrying about what your competitor is doing.

Response:

He was just playing around. On 16, Anthony conceded a short putt (18 inches or so) to go dormie. Why would you *ever* concede a putt like that to go dormie? Is that just "good sportsmanship", or bad judgment? I would not have given it, not at that point, and not with my game struggling over the past couple of holes as Anthony’s was. It seemed like a last chance to put some pressure on Justin, and try to get a change in the momentum, which was all going to Justin at that point.

It was really a kick-in putt. I don’t think even I could have missed that one. Sometimes it gives your opponent more confidence and momentum to force him to make a short putt like that. Anyway, the match was really over by that point, and Anthony knew it. And the good old Golf Channel’s main page for the BB describes the match as Justin defeating Anthony 3 & 1. That seems a bit harsh – did they penalize Anthony for conceding that putt?

No, Justin won the next hole too. So he went from 2 & 2 to 3 & 1. (By the time you read this, I bet at least 5 other similar responses will have been posted.)

Response:

And the good old Golf Channel’s main page for the BB describes the match as Justin defeating Anthony 3 & 1. That seems a bit harsh – did they penalize Anthony for conceding that putt? And finally, Rick Smith has a few tips on "Match Play Strategy". He begins by saying you have to "play the course",

then – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – immediately says to watch your opponent’s shots and change your club selection based on his shot. Then he says you have to "play to your own strengths, not what your competitor is doing", and in the next sentence suggests that "You can even watch the mannerisms of your competitor to sense how well they’re feeling. If your competitor starts getting nervous it’s almost a sure thing that their routine is going to change. That may mean they’re on the verge of falling apart". Seems like odd advice if you’re playing the course, not worrying about what your competitor is doing.

Response:

I Wonder if Gustafson and Votaw Can Live With Themselves

admin — Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I still cannot get over the Craig Stadler disqualification of a number of years ago. I cannot come to the conclusion that he was gaining advantage by artificially improving his stance by kneeling on a towel so that he would not stain his trousers. (Because he did not take penalty strokes for doing so, and thus signed a wrong scorecard, he was disqualified – have I got that right?) Anyway, IMO assessing a penalty for that was not in the spirit of the game.

Yes, disqualified for submitting a lower score than actually taken. He does not have to gain an advantage – if the rules of the game say you can’t do it, then you can’t do it. Penalty strokes are issued on the principle of negating any potential advantage, not about any actually gained. Not in the spirit of the game? Playing by the rules _is_ the spirit of the game. How can anyone, not just Staedler, break a rule, fail to pay the required penalty, and be considered to be playing in the ’spirit of the game’?

Response:

Insecure, close-minded people can’t understand what you are talking about. Those are the people who are so miserable, they want others to be miserable also. tim

Response:

The way that whole thing went down last week still bothers me. Letting the officials take her at her so-called word, knowing full well that Votaw would fire them if they ruled against his g/f makes the LPGA once again look like an amateurish organization. No wonder the ratings and tournament purses are still miniscule.

I’m not seeing that this is at all the cause for those ratings and purses.

Response:

These are the same people who immediately conclude that Hillary Clinton was guilty of something just because she made lots of money trading cattle I wonder what Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity would be saying if Hillary had killed her boyfriend when she was a teenager.

You are trying to make a point here? Does it have anything to do with Golf?

Response:

It’s only appropiate if it works out and doesn’t hurt anyone else. I can assure you that if Ty and Sophie had broken their relationship off a couple of months prior to this incident and things didn’t go Sophie’s way, Ty would be looking at a sexual harassment lawsuit. There are some situations where it is indeed stupid to look for love. Only a moron would dispute that.

Response:

Why don’t we let GolfWorld officiate all tourneys then, since their fine reporters are beyond reproach !

….Or we could just let you tell us your reports and we can say ‘it has to be true!’ Geez, get a life buddy

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They’re golfers. They’ve been living with themselves for years. It’s the rest of humanity that thinks they suck.

Response:

Oh, high and mighty Richard. Why can’t two grown people have a relationship without a weak minded person huffing and puffing about how it’s going to ruin the game..boo hoo. Sounds to me like you ‘are’ the type of person who would let a relationship get in the way of the ‘best interests’ of the game. Away with you and your conspiracy theories

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Perception is everything, Doug. Ty Votaw put Gustafson and himself in a position to be questioned by choosing to have a relationship that is not in the best interests of the game. You have to ask yourself what does Ty and Susan get out of it. I think last week’s tourney may begin to answer that question.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Letting the officials take her at her so-called word, knowing full well that Votaw would fire them if they ruled against his g/f makes the LPGA once again look like an amateurish organization. This is probably a troll, but I’m gonna bite anyway. This is possibly the stupidest, most ignorant statement that an adult could make. Do you really believe that the head of an organization would, or even could, fire someone for doing his job? Let’s play this out. The official rules against SG; TyVo fires that person (without cause, I might add); the official files a wrongful dismissal suit; the person wins a multi million dollar defamation and damages judgement; TyVo is deemed responsible; The LPGA BoD fires him (with cause). Now let’s enter the real world. SG knew the situation was unusual, she didn’t ground her club in this one instance, keeping it 1/32 of an inch off the grass, the ball moved, she sought a ruling, received one, played on and won the tournament. Everyone lives happily ever after, except RW, who feels there is injustice even when the rest of the world has moved on. How are things in the dead horse flogging business anyway, Richard? The GolfWorld I got in the mail today reports that Sophie always hovers her putter behind the ball until she finishes taking her stance. It it doesn’t take a great leap of faith to believe that she noticed the ball was likely to move and didn’t ground her putter at all. Maybe it doesn’t look so good that they are dating, but I think that the correct decision was made. Oh….since GolfWorld reports it…it has to be true !!! Why don’t we let GolfWorld officiate all tourneys then, since their fine reporters are beyond reproach ! The replays on Sophies putting routine prior to and after the 14th showed she always grounded her putter well before striking. She’s a liar and so is anyone defending her.

Welcome to my killfile….

Response:

Weather Bookie, this was one of the best posts I have read on RSG in a long time. IMHO, for what ever it’s worth, I totally agree with you. Common sense STILL prevails but forever & always people will continue to believe (& see) what they want to. Be it right or wrong. Thanks for a great post!!

Response:

says… Oh, put a cork in it. Old news. — Neal B. Richmond, VA RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=beasleyneal

Response:

with: Welcome to my killfile….

Ha! Beat you by two posts

Response:

with: 5) Compared to controversial rulings on the football field where the entire game turns, this ruling was very minor. The alleged infraction was incidental and very minor. The best girl that day won. The "spirit of the game" would have been violated horribly if she did not ground her club and was penalized anyway … ie… like the Duffy Waldorf thing.

Response:

These are the same people who immediately conclude that Hillary Clinton was guilty of something just because she made lots of money trading cattle

I wonder what Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity would be saying if Hillary had killed her boyfriend when she was a teenager.

Response:

The replays on Sophies putting routine prior to and after the 14th showed she always grounded her putter well before striking. She’s a liar and so is anyone defending her.

You were picked up on radar driving 40 in a 30 zone. Does this mean you ALWAYS drive 40 in every 30 zone you pass through? The issue was behaviour on #14. Behaviour and actions on 1-13 and 15-18 are irrelevant in determining what happened on 14. She says she didn’t ground the club; you say she did. Let’s pause for a moment and determine credibility, shall we. You’re sitting at home on the couch, watching a television set, with a couple of announcers yelling "Cheater" while Sophie’s actually there, playing professional golf, fully aware of the rules and making sure there is no violation, then consilting an official to make sure everything’s ok. Hmmmmmm….I’ll go with Sophie. — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

Then you would disagree with the same issue of GolfWorld, as they make it very clear that they think the relationship is inappropriate. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

Response:

1) A romantic relationship is always appropriate if you have met the right person. Denying your chance at love, the most important thing in the world, just because others may think it is inappropriate, is just stupid. 2) People who think that Ty Votaw had anything to do with that ruling are the same kind of people who believe in guilt by association. No way he could fire an official for ruling against his girlfriend. This is not Saddam Hussein. These are the same people who immediately conclude that Hillary Clinton was guilty of something just because she made lots of money trading cattle or that the Enron debacle was George Bush’s fault because they both are from Texas and both in the oil business. Never mind that Bill Clinton was president when Enron was dirty dealing or that Hillary made a lucky, but rather routine and well documented, cattle trade. The facts don’t matter…guilty by reason of association. 3) The TV shot of Sophie’s putter was poor and the ground behind the ball was sharply lower than the ball making it very possible that her putter was not grounded even though it looked like it was. 4) The infraction in question was not "cheating". Sophie was not trying to improve her lie or using an illegal driver. 5) Compared to controversial rulings on the football field where the entire game turns, this ruling was very minor. The alleged infraction was incidental and very minor. The best girl that day won. The "spirit of the game" would have been violated horribly if she did not ground her club and was penalized anyway … ie… like the Duffy Waldorf thing.

Response:

says… Oh….since GolfWorld reports it…it has to be true !!! Why don’t we let GolfWorld officiate all tourneys then, since their fine reporters are beyond reproach ! The replays on Sophies putting routine prior to and after the 14th showed she always grounded her putter well before striking. She’s a liar and so is anyone defending her.

Did someone piss in your grits this morning? — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"

Response:

So tell me … if that was you would you have grounded your putter? I wouldn’t have knowing the ball could have moved. That’s smart play and well within the rules of golf.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Letting the officials take her at her so-called word, knowing full well that Votaw would fire them if they ruled against his g/f makes the LPGA once again look like an amateurish organization. This is probably a troll, but I’m gonna bite anyway. This is possibly the stupidest, most ignorant statement that an adult could make. Do you really believe that the head of an organization would, or even could, fire someone for doing his job? Let’s play this out. The official rules against SG; TyVo fires that person (without cause, I might add); the official files a wrongful dismissal suit; the person wins a multi million dollar defamation and damages judgement; TyVo is deemed responsible; The LPGA BoD fires him (with cause). Now let’s enter the real world. SG knew the situation was unusual, she didn’t ground her club in this one instance, keeping it 1/32 of an inch off the grass, the ball moved, she sought a ruling, received one, played on and won the tournament. Everyone lives happily ever after, except RW, who feels there is injustice even when the rest of the world has moved on. How are things in the dead horse flogging business anyway, Richard?

The GolfWorld I got in the mail today reports that Sophie always hovers her putter behind the ball until she finishes taking her stance. It it doesn’t take a great leap of faith to believe that she noticed the ball was likely to move and didn’t ground her putter at all. Maybe it doesn’t look so good that they are dating, but I think that the correct decision was made. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

Response:

Oh….since GolfWorld reports it…it has to be true !!! Why don’t we let GolfWorld officiate all tourneys then, since their fine reporters are beyond reproach ! The replays on Sophies putting routine prior to and after the 14th showed she always grounded her putter well before striking. She’s a liar and so is anyone defending her.

Response:

We don’t know if this is corrupt, but it doesn’t look to great. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The way that whole thing went down last week still bothers me. Letting the officials take her at her so-called word, knowing full well that Votaw would fire them if they ruled against his g/f makes the LPGA once again look like an amateurish organization. No wonder the ratings and tournament purses are still miniscule.

Response:

Perception is everything, Doug. Ty Votaw put Gustafson and himself in a position to be questioned by choosing to have a relationship that is not in the best interests of the game. You have to ask yourself what does Ty and Susan get out of it. I think last week’s tourney may begin to answer that question.

Response:

Letting the officials take her at her so-called word, knowing full well that Votaw would fire them if they ruled against his g/f makes the LPGA once again look like an amateurish organization.

This is probably a troll, but I’m gonna bite anyway. This is possibly the stupidest, most ignorant statement that an adult could make. Do you really believe that the head of an organization would, or even could, fire someone for doing his job? Let’s play this out. The official rules against SG; TyVo fires that person (without cause, I might add); the official files a wrongful dismissal suit; the person wins a multi million dollar defamation and damages judgement; TyVo is deemed responsible; The LPGA BoD fires him (with cause). Now let’s enter the real world. SG knew the situation was unusual, she didn’t ground her club in this one instance, keeping it 1/32 of an inch off the grass, the ball moved, she sought a ruling, received one, played on and won the tournament. Everyone lives happily ever after, except RW, who feels there is injustice even when the rest of the world has moved on. How are things in the dead horse flogging business anyway, Richard? — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

I've struggled before, but….

admin — Sun, 12 Oct 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Take a look at your left thumb. I get better feel for the leading edge of the club when my left thumb is short and pressed flat onto the grip.

Why does your left thumb need to be short and what relation does that have with the leading edge of the club? David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor

Response:

I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw.

I guarantee your hips aren’t leading to the finish. It’s difficult to not shift your weight if the hips are leading. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor

Response:

That said, I question exactly how much weight should be on the front foot *at* impact anyway. If the head stays behind the ball at impact, there’s got to be weight on the back foot at impact. Thats why I disagree with the GH fans who want all the weight on the front foot as the downswing begins. Just doesn’t make sense to me. I’d think you want the weight in the process of moving toward the front foot at impact, but not all there yet. I’m not sure you have to be a GH fan. All it takes is to believe "Swing Like A Pro" where it says 90% of the weight on the front foot at impact.

Thats good research Bighorn. What page? Not sure I agree, but I’d like to read that. Usually when I disagree on something I’m wrong, so whats new!

Response:

I have been striking the ball pretty well lately. the irons especially. I moved away from the body-turning-the-limp-arms swing and got into what the old pros used: their hands. Has really made crisper hits, and straighter, too. You should give it a try, it feels good!. Keep wrists loose but hit with a definite hands hit. hit down, and from the inside. Feel the lag. Puttster

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes time off is the best cure. Chris S. this is ridiculous. I’ve been hitting balls for the last 3 weeks and I have absolutely no feel for my swing. It feels like I’m swinging left handed or something. Where is the clubhead? I don’t know. Where is the ball going? I don’t know. Pretty discouraging.

Response:

this is ridiculous. I’ve been hitting balls for the last 3 weeks and I have absolutely no feel for my swing. It feels like I’m swinging left handed or something. Where is the clubhead? I don’t know. Where is the ball going? I don’t know. Pretty discouraging.

Wow, I’m surprised at all the good advice I’ve gotten – I just posted that on a whim. I don’t want to single any of it out but thanks. I made some good progress on my swing last year, primarily with one teacher, but some significant tips from another too. I know the conventional wisdom is to stick with one teacher, but I seem to do best when I hear the same thing 2 different ways. Or try to blend 2 pieces of advice, assuming they’re not contradictory. Here’s a list of the top teachers in my state according to Golf Digest http://www.golfdigest.com/instruction/americasbest/index.ssf?/instruc… ericasbest/state/nc.html Without naming names directly, I don’t think I have any need for 1. I’ve been primarily seeing 10, who is pretty good, and 5 a couple times on the side. (When I added their advice together, it really clicked.) I’ve talked to 13 and didn’t really like his style. I’ve also heard good things about 8 and was thinking of seeing him – after taking a week or 2 off. Any thoughts, in general or about specific teachers?

Response:

Jeff, you’ve given me lots of good advice in the past. And at the moment, I’m swinging it like a whore myself, so no advice sorry, just empathy.

My wife tells me sometimes that is all that’s really necessary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then I went through the five swing faults I personally tend to "revert" to when I lose focus. (3) not getting my weight through onto the front foot I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw. I’d think that the cause is from a poor pivot where you make a reverse weight shift. Thats where you get your weight forward on your backswing, and the weight moving backwards on the downswing. The problem here is the backswing pivot. Instead of getting behind the ball on the backswing, you reverse weight shift onto the front and you are probably a bit ahead of the ball as the downswing begins. Then the weinght goes backwards. That said, I question exactly how much weight should be on the front foot *at* impact anyway. If the head stays behind the ball at impact, there’s got to be weight on the back foot at impact. Thats why I disagree with the GH fans who want all the weight on the front foot as the downswing begins. Just doesn’t make sense to me. I’d think you want the weight in the process of moving toward the front foot at impact, but not all there yet. I’m not sure you have to be a GH fan. All it takes is to believe "Swing Like A Pro" where it says 90% of the weight on the front foot at impact.

There’s also Nicklaus who says the first thing he does in the downswing is drop his left heel back to the ground. — RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=frostback "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

Response:

A couple things that have worked for me in similar situations (with varying degrees of success). 1) Take 7-10 days off 2) Find the shortest club that you can hit and ‘work up’ from there, one club at a time 3) Start with half swing shots and work on those until those are hit reasonable well. Then move progressively to full swing shots. dave

Response:

I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw.

I just look at the finishing position of good golfers (Karrie Webb is a good example). That’s the finish position I try to get. I just try to "post up" on my left leg. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

I’d agree with that. When I said getting my weight through, I didn’t mean before, or even at impact. Weight transfer is just signified by a good balanced finishing position. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – this is ridiculous. I’ve been hitting balls for the last 3 weeks and I have absolutely no feel for my swing. It feels like I’m swinging left handed or something. Where is the clubhead? I don’t know. Where is the ball going? I don’t know. Pretty discouraging. A couple things that have worked for me in similar situations (with varying degrees of success). 1) Take 7-10 days off 2) Find the shortest club that you can hit and ‘work up’ from there, one club at a time 3) Start with half swing shots and work on those until those are hit reasonable well. Then move progressively to full swing shots. dave

That’s the best advice I have seen yet. When I struggle with my swing I take 3-5 days off from full swings. I use it as chipping/putting practice days. When I hit the range again I start with a 9 iron and hit balls with a half swing, never letting my left arm get past parallel with the ground. It seems to help with tempo as well when I get back to full swings. When your swing gets out of controll the best thing to do is shorten it, even if you lose some distance. Once you feel like you are striking the ball better then air it out a little at a time. Just my 2 cents…. GoLow…

Response:

I’m not sure you have to be a GH fan. All it takes is to believe "Swing Like A Pro" where it says 90% of the weight on the front foot at impact.

Response:

Take a look at your left thumb. I get better feel for the leading edge of the club when my left thumb is short and pressed flat onto the grip. –Blair "HTH. HAND."

Response:

Sometimes time off is the best cure. Chris S.

Response:

Then I went through the five swing faults I personally tend to "revert" to when I lose focus. (3) not getting my weight through onto the front foot

I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw.

Response:

Get Scott Newell to visit! As soon as he leaves your vicinity, your swing will return to normal. Also, he’ll have a good time because he’ll kill the ball… (Disclaimer: he may have to leave the country. I’ll talk to his wife, but I don’t think that part’s gonna work out. Oh, and you can cook, right? Prof. Rev. Todd "Runyan" McGillivray, Esq. http://cplhicks.tripod.com/ Emailing me? tmcg at sasktel dot net. "Even the Mona Lisa’s fallin’ apart." – Fight Club

Response:

Then I went through the five swing faults I personally tend to "revert" to when I lose focus. (3) not getting my weight through onto the front foot I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw.

I’d think that the cause is from a poor pivot where you make a reverse weight shift. Thats where you get your weight forward on your backswing, and the weight moving backwards on the downswing. The problem here is the backswing pivot. Instead of getting behind the ball on the backswing, you reverse weight shift onto the front and you are probably a bit ahead of the ball as the downswing begins. Then the weinght goes backwards. That said, I question exactly how much weight should be on the front foot *at* impact anyway. If the head stays behind the ball at impact, there’s got to be weight on the back foot at impact. Thats why I disagree with the GH fans who want all the weight on the front foot as the downswing begins. Just doesn’t make sense to me. I’d think you want the weight in the process of moving toward the front foot at impact, but not all there yet.

Response:

I’m playing the best golf of my life. Not all of the time, but most of the time. I’d just like to hold it all together for a complete round. What works well for me is to rehearse half swings through impact, making sure my weight is on my left foot, head back and down, and just trying to feel the correct path of the swing so that the clubhead releases naturally and freely. For me, this requires the swing to be a little inside-out.

Response:

I would be interested in hearing what drill or other technique you use to overcome this fault. Not transferring my weight is my biggest swing flaw. I’d think that the cause is from a poor pivot where you make a reverse weight shift. Thats where you get your weight forward on your backswing, and the weight moving backwards on the downswing. The problem here is the backswing pivot. Instead of getting behind the ball on the backswing, you reverse weight shift onto the front and you are probably a bit ahead of the ball as the downswing begins. Then the weinght goes backwards.

I believe the pivot is more related to the swing plane and wrist cock. If you get the swing (shaft/hands/clubface) in more textbook positions during the first 1/3 & 2/3rds of the backswing, you will find that the pivot/weight shift will happen as a reaction to the momentum and balance of this path. A reverse pivot can happen because of either a (1) to upright or (2) too flat swing plane the body then tries to counter balance by reverse pivoting, etc. YMMV. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson

Response:

Jeff, you’ve given me lots of good advice in the past. And at the moment, I’m swinging it like a whore myself, so no advice sorry, just empathy.

Response:

: this is ridiculous. I’ve been hitting balls for the last 3 weeks and I have : absolutely no feel for my swing. It feels like I’m swinging left handed or : something. Where is the clubhead? I don’t know. Where is the ball going? : I don’t know. Pretty discouraging. Get either video or a teacher. If you’re not getting proper feedback from feel, get it from somebody who can watch — either you or your teacher, depending on which option you select. cb

Response:

Join the club. Terrific shots interspersed with bizarre misses. Can’t count on my putter. I’m getting too much right hand into the stroke, missed two 4-footers today that should have been gimmes en route to a pathetic 82. Maybe I need a week off. Jeff, maybe you do, too. Mike — Mike Dalecki GCA Accredited Clubmaker http://clubdoctor.com RSG-Wisconsin 2003 Information: http://dalecki.net/rsgwis2003 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=daleckim I do not patronize spammers. Help keep RSG clean!

Response:

I’ve noticed that my game tanks when I hit a lot of balls on the range. I get a hit impulse and lose my feel completely. When I play more on the course, my game ball striking improves. — RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=frostback "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

Response:

It’s got to be something basic. You’ve got three options I can see … either see somebody who can help, work your way through it, or give it up. Bet you don’t want to do the last. On Friday before my matchplay final, I went out for some practice and at one point found myself shanking *eight balls in row* straight right with a horrible clunk. I felt like I may as well not bother showing up. When this happens everything seems wrong … timing, impact, tempo. Then I went through the five swing faults I personally tend to "revert" to when I lose focus. They are (1) taking the club way back inside and then coming over the top … a reverse loop, (2) turning the hips out too early, (3) not getting my weight through onto the front foot, (4) not watching the spot where the ball is through impact, and (5) my stance gets a bit closed and my swing becomes a slight pull. Faults (2), (3) and (4) are probably related. (You will no doubt have your own list … I think it’s good to write them down in a diary for a reference.) On analysis, I knew it was (1), and wondered how on earth I ever could "miss it". However, I think a bad golf stroke is like a gremlin that just shows up on your shoulder when you don’t expect it. It teases you until you kill it with logic and basics. As soon as I paid attention to my takeaway … getting my hands more in front of my body … the problem went away. The loop went the other way. The timing, feel, tempo and good impact came back almost immediately. I also didn’t shank one all day Saturday. When I played at Yarrawonga yesterday, I was going along great guns, until I sprayed a couple of drives right. This was fault No. 2 and as soon as I corrected they started going straight again. What drives me nuts is why I forget in the first place, but I think it’s a sort of reversion to a previous naturally bad swing. Colin Wilson

Response:

Replacing a Wynn putter grip

admin — Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have a putter grip I really like. The problem is it’s wearing out and I need to replace it, and I’d really like to get the same one, and I’m not sure how. The old grip is a Wynn putter grip I put on myself, but of course the problem is I bought it out of a bin at GolfSmith and have no clue what model it is, and can’t find any obvious markings on the thing. So, the questions for the club builders are: Are there any hidden model numbers on these grips that would help find an identical replacement? I know at one point you could rewrap Wynn grips. Is this a feasible solution? The form is fine, what’s wearing out is the leather stripping. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have a putter grip I really like. The problem is it’s wearing out and I need to replace it, and I’d really like to get the same one, and I’m not sure how. The old grip is a Wynn putter grip I put on myself, but of course the problem is I bought it out of a bin at GolfSmith and have no clue what model it is, and can’t find any obvious markings on the thing. So, the questions for the club builders are: Are there any hidden model numbers on these grips that would help find an identical replacement? I know at one point you could rewrap Wynn grips. Is this a feasible solution? The form is fine, what’s wearing out is the leather stripping. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Warren, If there are any hiddem model numbers, I don’t know about them. Maybe if you got to the Winn website and look at the putter grips (they have pictures), you’ll be able to figure out which one you have. http://www.winngrips.com/products/putter_grips.html Kenny — Kenny Stultz – Troll and SPAM intolerant RSG Rollcall: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=stultzk "Golf is the only sport where a precise knowledge of the Rules can earn one a reputation for bad sportsmanship"

Response:

Should I mark my new putter with a line?

admin — Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Yup. I had the L-square and the Sharpie out tonight, and just couldn’t make myself do it. Too hard to get it centered *exactly*, and if it’s not centered, it would be hard to look at. I’ll try it for a while without the line, and see how it goes. I’ve only used it for one round, so far. When, and if, I do mark it, I think I’ve decided to just use black tape at first. Thanks for the feedback. I’ve always used a blade type putter, but recently it wasn’t working well, so I got a new 2-ball putter. I really like it, but I have a little trouble lining it up, sometimes. So, I’m thinking of putting a black line down the middle of the two white balls. Anyone else here ever done this? Did it help? Thanks. Wayne, I recently bought a 2 ball myself and was thinking the same thing. I decided to hold off making the mark until I could see if it would be absolutely necessary. After about 10 rounds with it, I haven’t found the need to mark up those pretty balls. ;) In my case I’m one of those that "always" lines up the logo or writing of the ball along my intended putting line and then just square the face perpendicular to the logo. And so far (knock on wood) the new putter hasn’t let me down. FWIW that’s my 2

Unplayable lie on the tee!

admin — Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

So if I intend to hit the ball 300 yards down the middle with a slight draw and shank it on the woods, it isn’t a stroke. Mulligan lives. You arguing purpose vs. state of the mind which is awfully thin ice. If you address the ball, take a full swing, and miss, it be a stroke.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is absolutely nothing about intent in the defintions. If you swing at the ball and miss, it is a stroke period. Sure there is: "Stroke "A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke." "The intention of fairly striking the ball" — so if I whiff on purpose, I didn’t have the intention to strike the ball… Thomas Prufer

Response:

One good reason is that for a ball to be declared ‘unplayable’ it has to be technically ‘in play’; unfortunately, on the tee, the ball is not ‘in play’ until you have made a stroke at it! If you wish, you could play a duff shot (or even an air shot) on the tee…and then declare the ball unplayable, you would however then be playing ‘3′! — cheers david "Somewhere in the world a village is missing an idiot!" - McCord SPAM-FIX. The owner of privacy.net has given permission to use this address for the purpose of protection from spam. If you want to contact me send to dsantwyk

Response:

There is absolutely nothing about intent in the defintions. If you swing at the ball and miss, it is a stroke period.

Sure there is: "Stroke "A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke." "The intention of fairly striking the ball" — so if I whiff on purpose, I didn’t have the intention to strike the ball… Thomas Prufer

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There is absolutely nothing about intent in the defintions. If you swing at the ball and miss, it is a stroke period. Sure there is: "Stroke "A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke." "The intention of fairly striking the ball" — so if I whiff on purpose, I didn’t have the intention to strike the ball…

Further supported by Decision 29-1/7. — http://rec-sport-golf.com/?rc=hayesd

Response:

There is absolutely nothing about intent in the defintions. If you swing at the ball and miss, it is a stroke period.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you said "have to whiff the ball first", I took it as an indication of a deliberate strategy – which is why I emphasized in my reply that an *intentional* whiff isn’t a stroke. From the definition (thanks for supplying that!), you’ll see that there an intentional whiff fails to meet the criterion of intention. (There is a lot of lore about mixed fours, and the woman intentionally missing on the tee of a water hazard hole so that the guy can play – but according to the rules, it’s would still be her turn.) Stroke A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke. Why isn’t a whiff on the tee a stroke? No, the whiffed ball still wouldn’t be in play. I don’t have the Definitions handy, but since you have yours, you’ll see that an intentional whiff isn’t a stroke. How does one declare a ball not yet in play as unplayable? Wouldn’t she have to whiff a shot first to put the ball in play? ROG Definitions: Ball in Play A ball is "in play” as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until holed out, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not such substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play. I fail to understand why the ROG has to "fix" a golf course designed and/or built by idiots. Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

When you said "have to whiff the ball first", I took it as an indication of a deliberate strategy – which is why I emphasized in my reply that an *intentional* whiff isn’t a stroke. From the definition (thanks for supplying that!), you’ll see that there an intentional whiff fails to meet the criterion of intention. (There is a lot of lore about mixed fours, and the woman intentionally missing on the tee of a water hazard hole so that the guy can play – but according to the rules, it’s would still be her turn.)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stroke A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke. Why isn’t a whiff on the tee a stroke? No, the whiffed ball still wouldn’t be in play. I don’t have the Definitions handy, but since you have yours, you’ll see that an intentional whiff isn’t a stroke. How does one declare a ball not yet in play as unplayable? Wouldn’t she have to whiff a shot first to put the ball in play? ROG Definitions: Ball in Play A ball is "in play” as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until holed out, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not such substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play. I fail to understand why the ROG has to "fix" a golf course designed and/or built by idiots. Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

Stroke A "stroke” is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of fairly striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he is deemed not to have made a stroke. Why isn’t a whiff on the tee a stroke?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, the whiffed ball still wouldn’t be in play. I don’t have the Definitions handy, but since you have yours, you’ll see that an intentional whiff isn’t a stroke. How does one declare a ball not yet in play as unplayable? Wouldn’t she have to whiff a shot first to put the ball in play? ROG Definitions: Ball in Play A ball is "in play” as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until holed out, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not such substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play. I fail to understand why the ROG has to "fix" a golf course designed and/or built by idiots. Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

No, the whiffed ball still wouldn’t be in play. I don’t have the Definitions handy, but since you have yours, you’ll see that an intentional whiff isn’t a stroke.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does one declare a ball not yet in play as unplayable? Wouldn’t she have to whiff a shot first to put the ball in play? ROG Definitions: Ball in Play A ball is "in play” as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until holed out, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not such substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play. I fail to understand why the ROG has to "fix" a golf course designed and/or built by idiots. Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

My first thought is that the ball isn’t in play while on the tee. Ergo, you can’t take an unplayable until its in play.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you? But the wording of rule 28 doesn’t require the ball to be in play. It just says a ‘player may decare his ball unplayable…’ Compare, for instance rule 18-2a, which starts ‘When a player’s ball is in play…’ Deliberate? I don’t know, but that’s what it says.

Response:

How does one declare a ball not yet in play as unplayable? Wouldn’t she have to whiff a shot first to put the ball in play? ROG Definitions: Ball in Play A ball is "in play” as soon as the player has made a stroke on the teeing ground. It remains in play until holed out, except when it is lost, out of bounds or lifted, or another ball has been substituted whether or not such substitution is permitted; a ball so substituted becomes the ball in play. I fail to understand why the ROG has to "fix" a golf course designed and/or built by idiots.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

: My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice : may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the : right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be : hit into the bailout area. Why not putt? cb

Response:

If you hit it into a water hazard, you may "Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped" (Rule 26-1). So wouldn’t you be better off hitting the ball into the pond and taking a drop rather than taking a penalty on the tee?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – With all due respect to your wife, I’m addressing the generality of the Rule and its application, and not her and her specific situation. In order for a Rule to be invoked, shouldn’t the condition occasioned by the Rule actually be present? In other words, shouldn’t a ball *be* unplayable before its *declared* unplayable. I agree that it’s up to the discretion of the player, but the Rule (and the rest of golf, for that matter) assumes that players make assessments candidly, with a prejudice for playing the ball as it lies. If a ball isn’t playable on the tee, when would it ever be playable? — Michael L. Wyland Sumption & Wyland 818 South Hawthorne Avenue Sioux Falls, SD 57104-4537 (605) 336-0244 (605) 336-0275 (FAX) (888) 4-SUMPTION (toll-free) http://www.sumptionandwyland.com — free e-newsletter sign-up — new article: "The Giving Sky is Falling…Or Is It?"

Howard and I needed you in the previous thread about unplayable lies. Ours is not a popular opinion.

Response:

Howard and I needed you in the previous thread about unplayable lies. Ours is not a popular opinion.

Popular, or not, it’s ludicrous. The rules are there to help, as well as penalize. ___, o | / . "Someone likes every shot" bk

Response:

Just move to an area where you think you can safely tee off from. "Remember keep it fun, as God intended" – Someone somewhere

Response:

This unplayable lie thing seems to be the most tortured way of dealing with a difficult hole I can imagine. Surely it’s possible to chip, bunt, putt, dribble a ball to a more desirable spot on the tee w/o incurring a penalty. Since the UPL rule forces one (assuming it’s even legal under these circumstances) to go backwards, how can this make the hole easier? — Doug Main "It’s never too late to have a happy childhood."

Response:

The rule doesn’t necessarily suggest you go "backwards" … it says, no closer to the hole. A lateral line is not closer to the hole. Larry

Response:

My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy.

How is this better than hitting a 2 club length chip from where she tees it up? It’d at least let her get more than 2 club lengths to the right and a bit forward or backward of the tee markers to play her next one from the optimal point. If she just can’t make the carry, shouldn’t she just tee it up in a spot where she can, even if it is 50 yards forward and left of the tee marker? Why the misguided concern to play exactly by the rules, even in the face of a hole that is designed in a way that isn’t within her abilities to play? What would you do if you went to a course, selected the tees you thought were correct for you, and then found one hole required a carry you couldn’t ever make with no allowance for layup or bailout? Yeah, you could move up to some closer tees, but that’s "cheating" just as much as if she created a new closer "tee" to play the hole you described. If she feels guilty about it (or you are giving her the guilt trip) she could play off the men’s tees on one hole to even things out. — "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." — Mark Twain

Response:

Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers?

Response:

I think it was Lee Trevino who joked that a Pete Dye course was so tough that you had to take an unplayable lie from the tee. Sounds like that hole is pretty unfair for the ladies. Can you petition to have the tree removed? I’ve heard that the USGA is recommending that a lot of courses need to thin out some trees. Rule 28 says that you can declare a ball unplayable anywhere on the course except a water hazard, so no problem with the ROG. — –Robert Simpson– USGA Certified Bogey Golfer rsg roll call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=simpsonr

: Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an : unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two : clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you : couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the : 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the : very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river : directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few : people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most : want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an : up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that : there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks : the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and : anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big : hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a : rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the : ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee : box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing : from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the : right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees : from a direct line at the green. : : My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice : may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the : right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be : hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this : point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in : the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in : a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced : "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the : markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. : : : : : — : http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery ) : :

Response:

Isn’t it possible to tee off with a short swing with a wedge, or even a putter to get the ball off to the side of the tee box and then play # 2 from there.. (ie duff the tee shot)

Response:

With all due respect to your wife, I’m addressing the generality of the Rule and its application, and not her and her specific situation. In order for a Rule to be invoked, shouldn’t the condition occasioned by the Rule actually be present? In other words, shouldn’t a ball *be* unplayable before its *declared* unplayable. I agree that it’s up to the discretion of the player, but the Rule (and the rest of golf, for that matter) assumes that players make assessments candidly, with a prejudice for playing the ball as it lies. If a ball isn’t playable on the tee, when would it ever be playable? — Michael L. Wyland Sumption & Wyland 818 South Hawthorne Avenue Sioux Falls, SD 57104-4537 (605) 336-0244 (605) 336-0275 (FAX) (888) 4-SUMPTION (toll-free) http://www.sumptionandwyland.com — free e-newsletter sign-up — new article: "The Giving Sky is Falling…Or Is It?"

Response:

As to whether you can declare a ball unplayable before you have played a stroke from the teeing ground is debatable, as it isn’t yet in play… if the hole is really so tough & you wanted to move a bit to the right, wouldn’t it make more sense to ‘putt’ it there & then be playing 2?

Response:

Here’s another one for your file of odd uses of the rules — can you take an unplayable lie on the tee and drop the ball no nearer the hole, within two clublengths, but outside the tee markers? I can’t see any reason why you couldn’t. Now as for why you would want to, you only have to look at the 10th hole on our course. It’s a long par 3 that’s about 180 even off the very front of the tee box where the "red" tees are, and crosses a river directly in front of the tee and a pond up near the green. Clearly few people teeing from the red tees have the distance to carry the pond, so most want to hit the ball left, where there is a bail out area, and play for an up and down par or a bogey rather than risk the pond. The problem is that there is a large tree just left of and in front of the tee box which blocks the way to the bail out area when the tees are all the way forward and anywhere near the left side. This leaves the choice of trying to hit a big hook around the offending tee, hitting over the river to the right onto a rather narrow area between the pond and the river, or simply dribbling the ball off the tee to the right and hoping it stops before rolling off the tee box and into the river. Really bad choices, especially for people playing from the forward tees. (Even if you succeed in getting over the river to the right, you are still behind a pond many can’t carry and blocked by trees from a direct line at the green. My wife, who plays from this tee, concluded that actually the sanest choice may be to tee it up, declare it unplayable, then drop two clublengths to the right, getting clear of the offending tree and allowing the next one to be hit into the bailout area. You are playing for a double bogey at this point, but it’s still better than hitting 3 off the tee. I saw nothing in the rules to prevent this rather odd application. You won’t see this one in a professional event, but I’ll bet a lot of readers here have faced "impossible" tee shots that would have been a heck of a lot easier with the markers a little left or right and might want to consider this strategy. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

proper order for clubs in bag

admin — Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

However you like it… is the correct way for you.

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter?

The only difference I’ve noticed is when the long clubs over-balance the bag. This might not be noticeable until you put the bag on a push or pull-cart.

Response:

i am still too busy working out my swing to worry about this : – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

Response:

I put ‘em in the bag with the heads up and grips down. If they all fit OK, I’m happier than a clam! RSG Masters 2004 pre-preliminary format http://home.att.net/~frostback2002 "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are" Joseph Campbell

Response:

My instructor insists that the putter ride with the woods. Anyone else hear this?

i do that. the putter being the shortest club, tends to get lost if in the bottom rack.

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

I hide my wedges among the other clubs since, environmentally, they are wedges of mass destruction and I don’t want inspectors to find them. — Jim Sabatke Hire Me!! – See my resume at http://my.execpc.com/~jsabatke Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk I hide my wedges among the other clubs since, environmentally, they are wedges of mass destruction and I don’t want inspectors to find them.

Just do what Saddam did… …bury them in the sand.

Response:

Don’t worry the small stuff like that. Work on the big problems first. Like your personality and hygiene.

Response:

You may find this useful: I keep my "around the green" clubs –putter, 8 iron (favorite close in chipping club) in one slot. Then, walking or riding, if I’m close to the green I just grab that pair and usually have what I want when I get to the ball. My carry bag has the top most slot for putters, it holds the 8 iron too.

Response:

But you’re going about it all wrong — the trick is to have several putters and use the penalty box often — this keeps the putter from getting too up-itty! Each putter will then feel honored to be in your bag and will do everything possible to please. Remember "spare the rod, spoil the child" – works with putters!

I have a few living in the garage "corner of shame.!" :-) Tomorrow my new STX Sync III putter (the bow-tie one that McCarron uses) will be making it’s debut. It’s a lot easier to chuck one that you built for $30. I’ll cut the STX a little slack until I’ve had some time to get some practice in. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

My putter goes on top with the woods. but I’m really careful about my driver shaft getting scratched by the putter. My next bag will probably be the Ogio Woodie so that will solve the putter problem

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My instructor insists that the putter ride with the woods. Anyone else hear this? – Andrew Hi Hugh. I don’t know about others but here is how I load my stand-bag: Top slot – Driver, 3 wood, 5 wood. Middle left slot – 3, 4, 5 irons. Middle right slot – 6, 7, 8 irons. Bottom slot – 9, PW, GW, SW, Putter

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

Hugh, I think there is a practical reason to have the longer clubs at the top of the bag — the heads of the longer clubs are always kept above the heads of the shorter clubs providing better and more efficient storage. This also ensures that heads don’t bang against shafts since the heads of shorter clubs would tend to bang into the shafts of longer clubs if they were above them. Of course if the bag is kept vertical, like at the back of a golf cart then it probably doesn’t matter. All other things being equal, it’s also nice to have the clubs organized in the bag — simple to inventory and might speed up play a little (I wish!!) if you can quickly find the club you need. Play on. MyQ.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Dave, LOL. But you’re going about it all wrong — the trick is to have several putters and use the penalty box often — this keeps the putter from getting too up-itty! Each putter will then feel honored to be in your bag and will do everything possible to please. Remember "spare the rod, spoil the child" – works with putters! Play on. MyQ.

Response:

My instructor insists that the putter ride with the woods. Anyone else hear this? – Andrew

Andrew, I’m not sure why he insists, but this is something that a lot of golfers (including me) do. Maybe it is showing the required reverance to the putter by promoting it to the top of the bag Play on. MyQ.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My instructor insists that the putter ride with the woods. Anyone else hear this? – Andrew

My putter insists on its own apartment on the outside of the main bag. It refuses to live with the riff-raff. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter,

Heck, maybe it doesn’t.. but, is your bag top "angled"? The new bag I bought this year has three "pockets, with a separate putter area.. really like that. The top is angled from back to front, with the separators matching the angle, so it makes sense to put the longest clubs in the "longest" "pocket" and work down from there. So, for me, it’s putter(in it’s own slot, right behind longest one), then driver, 5-wood and ball retriever(still trying to find the 7wood I want) in the longest slot, with 3-6 in the next shortest and 7 thru lob wedge in the shortest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thansk

Response:

Hi Hugh. I don’t know about others but here is how I load my stand-bag: Top slot – Driver, 3 wood, 5 wood. Middle left slot – 3, 4, 5 irons. Middle right slot – 6, 7, 8 irons. Bottom slot – 9, PW, GW, SW, Putter Using this method I can quickly inventory my clubs and determine if I’m missing a club. I’ve also found that as I set the bag down on my right hand side it places the shorter irons closer to me. I originally had the irons switched in the middle right and middle left slots but like my current setup better. Play around and see what works best for you.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

Response:

My instructor insists that the putter ride with the woods. Anyone else hear this? – Andrew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Hugh. I don’t know about others but here is how I load my stand-bag: Top slot – Driver, 3 wood, 5 wood. Middle left slot – 3, 4, 5 irons. Middle right slot – 6, 7, 8 irons. Bottom slot – 9, PW, GW, SW, Putter

Response:

Maybe it doesn’t matter, but is there a proper way to load the clubs in the bag? I have a standing bag, should the drivers be toward the top? the putter? Maybe it doesn’t matter, Thansk

Response:

Off Of The Bandwagon

admin — Sat, 09 Aug 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I’m sure you meant to say "…sideways laterally … at 90 degree right angles once, one time."

I’m thinking about this, at this moment in time, as I’m passing the La Brea Tar Pits, after getting some cash from the ATM machine with my PIN number… Thomas "Department of Redundancy Department" Prufer

Response:

I’m sure you meant to say "…sideways laterally … at 90 degree right angles once, one time." I’m thinking about this, at this moment in time, as I’m passing the La Brea Tar Pits, after getting some cash from the ATM machine with my PIN number…

After that, do you drive up to Arroyo Seco?

Response:

Yeah, I have a question. Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"? BTW, "off of" is I believe a regional colloquialism here. It’s not used everywhere in the US. In New England, for instance, one might hear, "Get off of the green!" Out here in the wild wild west, "Get off the green!" would be more commonly heard. (The preceding gives us the golf content.) I am not positive about this, but that’s my best guess at the moment (right now) Peter

You are correct. It’s a common characteristic of our regional speech pattern in Central/Eastern Kentucky. Another characteristic in Central/Eastern Kentucky is not being concerned with other region’s speech patterns – especially if we understand what’s being said. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. Yeah, I have a question. Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"?

To differentiate between "getting off of the green" and "getting off on the green." Cheers, Loren

Response:

As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. Yeah, I have a question. Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"?

Good question. Why do we even use the word "utilize" when we can use "use" in almost any situation where we would utilize the word "utilize?" Dave Clary/Corpus Christi, Tx Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

Response:

Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"?

It’s because of this….. The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European nation rather than German which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, Her Majesty’s Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with the "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. If zis mad yu smil, pleas pas it on to oza pepl. Gordy

Response:

I’m sure you meant to say "…sideways laterally … at 90 degree right angles once, one time."

Yes, and still having a makeable shot to the green remaining was an added bonus. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

Well, Colin, it’s because of…

Don’t you mean because of of …? BTW, did I tell you? I hit my ball laterally across the fairway at right angles once. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

Well, Colin, it’s because of… Don’t you mean because of of …? BTW, did I tell you? I hit my ball laterally across the fairway at right angles once.

I’m sure you meant to say "…sideways laterally … at 90 degree right angles once, one time." I’m also certain that you don’t use "of" when you say "off", because of being from a culture that uses the language differently. Try that without "of" after "because"…sounds a bit strange, eh? BTW, "off of" is I believe a regional colloquialism here. It’s not used everywhere in the US. In New England, for instance, one might hear, "Get off of the green!" Out here in the wild wild west, "Get off the green!" would be more commonly heard. (The preceding gives us the golf content.) I am not positive about this, but that’s my best guess at the moment (right now) Peter

Response:

As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc….

Yeah, I have a question. Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"? — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. Yeah, I have a question. Why do Americans say "off of" rather than just "off"?

Well, Colin, it’s because of… Peter

Response:

The futura is awful, I looked at one in the golf shop, and it sets up just terrible. Get the 2-ball instead. I hate mallet style putters, so I won’t be getting either, but the 2-ball is very solid for that style. tim teardrop TD series fan. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, My name’s ChiliDipper(well, actually, that’s just a screen name in this newsgroup, not my real name!) and I’m a putterholic. I know some years ago we did the putterholic thing where a number of us fessed up to how many putters we’ve used/owned/own, with Randy the leader by a country mile. Since my on course forays have been sporadic for a while, I’ve had a couple of PINGs that have been sharing the duties, with only a few more sitting around the house. I’m bored now, and, haven’t been rolling the rock well when I’ve been out. I know it’s not the stick, but, the stickee(?), however, being the club ho I am, it’s the perfect excuse for a new flatstick. What’s the consensus on the Futura? I know it’s butt ugly, but, even being a putterholic, I’ve never made the journey into Scottyville. Has anyone tried it versus the Taylor Made Monza? As an aside, I’ve built a fair number of component putters, but, have yet to find one that matches up with the better OEM’s. This is the opposite of my experience with irons, woods, wedges. Any success stories with component putters? As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

speaking of humungous putters, I happen to be in love with the Hogan/Bettinardi Big Ben putter. not sure, but I think Furyk might have used it in his US Open win. I don’t own the putter (at least not yet), but I fondle it lovingly and stroke putts w/ it at the local golf store cheers, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, My name’s ChiliDipper(well, actually, that’s just a screen name in this newsgroup, not my real name!) and I’m a putterholic. I know some years ago we did the putterholic thing where a number of us fessed up to how many putters we’ve used/owned/own, with Randy the leader by a country mile. Since my on course forays have been sporadic for a while, I’ve had a couple of PINGs that have been sharing the duties, with only a few more sitting around the house. I’m bored now, and, haven’t been rolling the rock well when I’ve been out. I know it’s not the stick, but, the stickee(?), however, being the club ho I am, it’s the perfect excuse for a new flatstick. What’s the consensus on the Futura? I know it’s butt ugly, but, even being a putterholic, I’ve never made the journey into Scottyville. Has anyone tried it versus the Taylor Made Monza? As an aside, I’ve built a fair number of component putters, but, have yet to find one that matches up with the better OEM’s. This is the opposite of my experience with irons, woods, wedges. Any success stories with component putters? As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc….

Response:

FWIW this is the one that has really worked for me. I don’t let anyone touch it http://www.golfworks.com/item_disp.asp?pn=PETT&bhcd2=1060453845

I believe I’ve read a very positive review of this head on one of the online review sites – or two. I don’t remember the specifics though. What is it about the head that works well for you? — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FWIW this is the one that has really worked for me. I don’t let anyone touch it http://www.golfworks.com/item_disp.asp?pn=PETT&bhcd2=1060453845 I believe I’ve read a very positive review of this head on one of the online review sites – or two. I don’t remember the specifics though. What is it about the head that works well for you? — ChiliDipper

Purely subjective of course, but the feel of the ball coming of the head is soft and sweet. I find my distance control is much better. Also the lines on the putterhead make it a cinch to line up the ball and make sure the putter is level. If the two middle lines line up the putter is level. The weight and lie angle suit my stroke. My putting has improved a lot!

Response:

was in golf town today trying putters. i only have 2; a brass epperson that i am sure no one has ever heard of, and my current odessey 550 duoforce that saved my bacon all of last year and now i cannot find the sweet spot on it. tried a TM rossa monza putter. bizzare looking thing but man does it feel sweet. how long is the honeymoon period again???

Response:

What’s the consensus on the Futura?

Chili, I agree with Randy. I tried one the other day, and was astonished at how light it is. Much too light for me, since I seem to specialize in really long putts. And just felt weird, in the bargain. I have an Accupath Model I from golftourproducts, and like it a great deal. As a component club, of course it’s quite reasonably priced, and I find it the equal of the Odyssey 2-ball. A slight bit lighter perhaps, but not at all objectionably so. If you haven’t looked at it, might be worth a glance. Peter

Response:

What’s the consensus on the Futura? Chili, I agree with Randy. I tried one the other day, and was astonished at how light it is. Much too light for me, since I seem to specialize in really long putts. And just felt weird, in the bargain.

Those seem to be my foray too. Probably why I’ve come to like a head heavy putter. I have an Accupath Model I from golftourproducts, and like it a great deal. As a component club, of course it’s quite reasonably priced, and I find it the equal of the Odyssey 2-ball. A slight bit lighter perhaps, but not at all objectionably so. If you haven’t looked at it, might be worth a glance.

That’s one I don’t think I’ve seen. I’ll check out their website. The only thing is – and the reason I don’t consider the Odyssey – I just have a hard time with the look. I know, I’ve looked at the Futura and the Monza, about as ugly as they come. It must be the circles. Stay away from the circles, he hates the circles!(old obscure reference to a Steve Martin movie) — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

When I first saw the Futura I thought "what is that cockamamy thing". I got a chace to make a few putts with one and I was surprised how light it was (it looks like a monster). Long story short. Bought it , love it, sleep with it, will never give it up. Pricey but it was worth it AFAIC. mark from muskoka —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

I just need to cajole the head pro into getting one into the shop so I can take it out to the practice green and roll some with it. I usually don’t go for lighter putters, but, too many people are loving this one to not try it out for myself. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

TMI.

Response:

Hi, My name’s ChiliDipper(well, actually, that’s just a screen name in this newsgroup, not my real name!) and I’m a putterholic. I know some years ago we did the putterholic thing where a number of us fessed up to how many putters we’ve used/owned/own, with Randy the leader by a country mile. Since my on course forays have been sporadic for a while, I’ve had a couple of PINGs that have been sharing the duties, with only a few more sitting around the house. I’m bored now, and, haven’t been rolling the rock well when I’ve been out. I know it’s not the stick, but, the stickee(?), however, being the club ho I am, it’s the perfect excuse for a new flatstick. What’s the consensus on the Futura? I know it’s butt ugly, but, even being a putterholic, I’ve never made the journey into Scottyville. Has anyone tried it versus the Taylor Made Monza? As an aside, I’ve built a fair number of component putters, but, have yet to find one that matches up with the better OEM’s. This is the opposite of my experience with irons, woods, wedges. Any success stories with component putters? As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

I have not owned a Futura (surprised?), but I was interested in it, partly because I saw one last year and was intrigued by the looks of it (and by the fact that the player carrying it told me it was the most amazing putter he’d ever used), partly because I’ve always liked having a face-balanced mallet-headed putter to go to when my stroke goes south (my weapon of choice for that right now is the Odyssey 2-ball putter, though I still prefer my Scotty Newport or some derivative thereof). So when I saw a Futura in the pro shop a few months ago (the first and only one I’ve seen in Atlanta), I was extremely interested in checking it out. So I did. It’s too damn light. Looking at it, you’d never guess that. But I didn’t like the feel of it striking the ball. Too much vibration, and the putter was just too damn light for me. I prefer a slightly heavier putter (though not as heavy as what I’ve affectionately called the Pegg Anvil). My stroke tends to be slow and rhythmic. The heavier head tends to keep me from "lifting" (or grabbing) the putter going back. I can just swing it rhythmically. I spent about 15 minutes with it, both in the pro shop, and they let me take it out on the practice green (at Windermere, where the bentgrass greens are pretty quick). I came away thinking it was just too damn light. On slower, bumpier greens (which, to some people, requires a lighter putter), it might be just the ticket. But not for me. Hadn’t given it another thought since that day. Until now. My 2-cents. Randy RSG Resident Putterholic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, My name’s ChiliDipper(well, actually, that’s just a screen name in this newsgroup, not my real name!) and I’m a putterholic. I know some years ago we did the putterholic thing where a number of us fessed up to how many putters we’ve used/owned/own, with Randy the leader by a country mile. Since my on course forays have been sporadic for a while, I’ve had a couple of PINGs that have been sharing the duties, with only a few more sitting around the house. I’m bored now, and, haven’t been rolling the rock well when I’ve been out. I know it’s not the stick, but, the stickee(?), however, being the club ho I am, it’s the perfect excuse for a new flatstick. What’s the consensus on the Futura? I know it’s butt ugly, but, even being a putterholic, I’ve never made the journey into Scottyville. Has anyone tried it versus the Taylor Made Monza? As an aside, I’ve built a fair number of component putters, but, have yet to find one that matches up with the better OEM’s. This is the opposite of my experience with irons, woods, wedges. Any success stories with component putters? As always, thanks for any and all opinions/ideas/suggestions/reviews/info/etc…. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have not owned a Futura (surprised?), but I was interested in it, partly because I saw one last year and was intrigued by the looks of it (and by the fact that the player carrying it told me it was the most amazing putter he’d ever used), partly because I’ve always liked having a face-balanced mallet-headed putter to go to when my stroke goes south (my weapon of choice for that right now is the Odyssey 2-ball putter, though I still prefer my Scotty Newport or some derivative thereof). So when I saw a Futura in the pro shop a few months ago (the first and only one I’ve seen in Atlanta), I was extremely interested in checking it out. So I did. It’s too damn light. Looking at it, you’d never guess that. But I didn’t like the feel of it striking the ball. Too much vibration, and the putter was just too damn light for me. I prefer a slightly heavier putter (though not as heavy as what I’ve affectionately called the Pegg Anvil). My stroke tends to be slow and rhythmic. The heavier head tends to keep me from "lifting" (or grabbing) the putter going back. I can just swing it rhythmically. I spent about 15 minutes with it, both in the pro shop, and they let me take it out on the practice green (at Windermere, where the bentgrass greens are pretty quick). I came away thinking it was just too damn light. On slower, bumpier greens (which, to some people, requires a lighter putter), it might be just the ticket. But not for me. Hadn’t given it another thought since that day. Until now. My 2-cents. Randy RSG Resident Putterholic

Being too light wasn’t a problem I’d have the Futura would have. If anything, I thought the look of the thing would have been distracting! I like head-heavy putters also. I’ve actually tried the Monza on the indoor practice green at one of the local golf shops. It was also much lighter than I would have imagined by the size of the head. However, the alignment of the big, ugly thing was very easy for me, and, I stroked it well on the Astroturf. Alas, there was no real practice green on which to give it a go. So, that was enough to get me to consider the current crop of big-headed, ugly MOI-type putters. I think I’ll see if the shop at Old Silo will be getting some in so I can try it on their practice greens – which are excellent. Unfortunately, I know they don’t carry Taylor Made clubs – my personal favorites, generally speaking, among the OEM clubs. — ChiliDipper -gt RSG Roll Call http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=toyg

Response:

FWIW this is the one that has really worked for me. I don’t let anyone touch it http://www.golfworks.com/item_disp.asp?pn=PETT&bhcd2=1060453845

Response:

Kenny Perry

admin — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

We meet again, Mr. Kook. Well I meet a lot of people Mr. Jeff Connelly , but I am sorry I do not recall making your acquantance previously

Oh yes you do, you big Kook.

Response:

We meet again, Mr. Kook. Well I meet a lot of people Mr. Jeff Connelly , but I am sorry I do not recall making your acquantance previously Oh yes you do, you big Kook.

Are you one of my patients?

Response:

This is the kind of false impression one can get from watching golfers only on TV. True, Perry’s swing is not classic or picturesque — hence doesn’t photography well on the telly. But I guarantee that if you were out on the course actually following him around, you would get an entirely different impression. Kenny Perry actually has one of the most effortless and powerful swings on tour. Takes it back really slow (and yes sort of loopy and wierd) but then . . . wham!. The ball absolutely rockets off the clubface. KP is long. Very nice chap too. — "Philosophy: a route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing." — Ambrose Bierce, The Devil’s Dictionary. — Home Page: http://condor.depaul.edu/~dsimpson

Response:

-snipped- Peter. How typical. Typical of which stereotype exactly

Who’s stereotyping? Is the term ‘pampered american courses’ an example? You somehow equate manicured conditions to ease of play, and fluidity of swing to skill. More like ability to cope with a wide range of conditions actually

What does his swing have to do with playing conditions? And, is a ‘british’ course a finer test of golf? A tougher test of golf? Can’t we just agree that it is just one of many types of venues that present challenges to the top players, without maligning U.S. courses? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -And, you may want to note who won those last 6 Opens: 2001 David Duval 2000 Tiger Woods 1999 Paul Lawrie (fluke) 1998 Mark O’Meara 1997 Justin Leonard 1996 Tom Lehman Your point being ? I don’t see Kenny Perrys name there , nor John Cook for that matter:-) Why do you take my comments about Kenny Perry as an attack on american golf per se.

It might have had something to do with the apparent tone of your initial post. :-) The guy is a one-trick pony

As are probably most PGA/EPGA types. Some excel on the West coast, others the East, some overseas, on various types of tracks. Only a select few seem to have mastered all conditions. It’s presumptuous to suggest that Perry, given his length, patience, and course management skills, would not play well at the Open. So what if you don’t like Perry’s swing. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the recent American domination of the Open. Correct

My ‘jab’ about U.S. domination was a friendly one at that. I’m not so sure the Royal Ancients were overjoyed by Tiger’s mopping up of St. Andrews. But neither were Hootie or the U.S. Open folks either when he destroyed their venues. :-) — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Make Golf Difficult Again." - Ian MacCallister

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We meet again, Mr. Kook. Well I meet a lot of people Mr. Jeff Connelly , but I am sorry I do not recall making your acquantance previously Oh yes you do, you big Kook. Are you one of my patients? Ah, "Dr. Kook" it is then. I like that better anyway.

more like Dr. Hook at the moment

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Through the delights of Sky sports have seen this guy for the first time, playing in Fort Worth (The windy city – I always thought that was chicago). Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen . I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses.. I agree — you definitely should invite him over and play him for a few thousand pounds per hole. That swing has got to break down when the weeds are high and the clubhead won’t know how to get to the ball going through UK air. (It’s a good thing the US has its own tour so pitiful golfers like him can make a living.) Zane

I haven’t seen the swing in question, but I wonder if ‘unorthodox’ swings are more likely to break down in bad conditions. I guess it is easier to make adjustments for high winds and bad lies when you are starting from an orthodox, straight-hitting swing, rather than if you normally hit high fades or low draws.

Response:

Ah, "Dr. Kook" it is then. I like that better anyway.

Response:

Shuts the face and low draws everything doesn’t he?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen. So a super-smooth swinger with all the right mechanics like Steve Elkington finished 3 over, and Kenny Perry finished 8-under. I wonder what that tells us … hmmm? I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses.. Brits have been dissing American golfers ever since Walter Travis came over with his weird putter and won the British Amateur nearly a century ago. I suppose the fact that the current British Open champion is an American without the world’s most perfect swing escaped you? Cheers Colin Wilson American golfers with less than "perfect" swings have done quite well on Open links courses. Arnold Palmer’s name, for one, seems to ring a bell. Regardless of how Kenny Perry’s swing looks – it seems to do the job consistently, and that is what matters. He is a fine player and would, IMNSHO, do quite well if he played on a links course. Methinks Mr Kook is playing the jingoistic card here.

Not so much the jingoistic card as the wind somebody card. Crispin Roche

Response:

Well I meet a lot of people Mr. Jeff Connelly , but I am sorry I do not recall making your acquantance previously

Response:

Regardless of how Kenny Perry’s swing looks – it seems to do the job consistently, and that is what matters. He is a fine player and would, IMNSHO, do quite well if he played on a links course. Methinks Mr Kook is playing the jingoistic card here.

You thinks completely wrong matey, although I would love to see our Kenny in the US Ryder Cup team.

Response:

Through the delights of Sky sports have seen this guy for the first time, playing in Fort Worth (The windy city – I always thought that was chicago). Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen . I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses.. Peter. How typical. You somehow equate manicured conditions to ease of play, and fluidity of swing to skill. Should I also suggest to you that *most* ‘british’ players would fall apart quickly on any U.S. Open layout? Would that be fair? Get a grip. It’s not the pureness or fluidness of the swing, it’s how the clubface contacts the ball. And what exactly does a fluid swing have to do with success on ‘british’ links courses? Are you suggesting that ‘british’ tracks are a more robust test of golf? Let’s examine a couple of *our* favorite ‘british’ golfer types and see how they fared in the last half dozen Opens: Colin ‘Jiggles’ Montgomery Lee ‘Jaws’ Westwood 2001 T13th T47th 2000 T26th T64th 1999 T15th T18th 1998 T79th T67th 1997 T24th T10th 1996 T105th T86th Only *one* top ten in six tries between the two of them. And, you may want to note who won those last 6 Opens: 2001 David Duval 2000 Tiger Woods 1999 Paul Lawrie (fluke) 1998 Mark O’Meara 1997 Justin Leonard 1996 Tom Lehman That would be five wins in six tries. Not to mention how many Americans finished in the top ten. So what if you don’t like Perry’s swing. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the recent American domination of the Open. No offense to our RSG friends across the pond. — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Make Golf Difficult Again." - Ian MacCallister — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Make Golf Difficult Again." - Ian MacCallister

Response:

Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen. So a super-smooth swinger with all the right mechanics like Steve Elkington finished 3 over, and Kenny Perry finished 8-under. I wonder what that tells us … hmmm?

It tells us Elkington has a super smooth swing that he can employ to good efffect all around the world and Perry has in inelegant and technicaly weak style that would not equip him to do the same. Lets see this guy in Britain. I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses.. Brits have been dissing American golfers ever since Walter Travis came over with his weird putter and won the British Amateur nearly a century ago.

LOL I forgot about that one . I suppose the fact that the current British Open champion is an American without the world’s most perfect swing escaped you?

Duval is the Open Champion not the British Open champion actually old bean. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Through the delights of Sky sports have seen this guy for the first time, playing in Fort Worth (The windy city – I always thought that was chicago). Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen . I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses.. Peter. How typical. You somehow equate manicured conditions to ease of play, and fluidity of swing to skill. Should I also suggest to you that *most* ‘british’ players would fall apart quickly on any U.S. Open layout? Would that be fair? Get a grip. It’s not the pureness or fluidness of the swing, it’s how the clubface contacts the ball. And what exactly does a fluid swing have to do with success on ‘british’ links courses? Are you suggesting that ‘british’ tracks are a more robust test of golf? Let’s examine a couple of *our* favorite ‘british’ golfer types and see how they fared in the last half dozen Opens: Colin ‘Jiggles’ Montgomery Lee ‘Jaws’ Westwood 2001 T13th T47th 2000 T26th T64th 1999 T15th T18th 1998 T79th T67th 1997 T24th T10th 1996 T105th T86th Only *one* top ten in six tries between the two of them. And, you may want to note who won those last 6 Opens: 2001 David Duval 2000 Tiger Woods 1999 Paul Lawrie (fluke) 1998 Mark O’Meara 1997 Justin Leonard 1996 Tom Lehman

That should be: Colin ‘Jiggles’ Montgomery 2001 – T13th 2000 – T26th 1999 – T15th 1998 – T79th 1997 – T24th 1996 – T105th Lee ‘Jaws’ Westwood 2001 – T47th 2000 – T64th 1999 – T18th 1998 – T67th 1997 – T10th 1996 – T86th For some reason Netscape Mail fouled up the formatting… oh, well. :- That would be five wins in six tries. Not to mention how many Americans finished in the top ten. So what if you don’t like Perry’s swing. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the recent American domination of the Open. No offense to our RSG friends across the pond. — Ron Blanchard http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=blanchardr I took the RSG 2002 Pledge to not encourage trolls "Make Golf Difficult Again." - Ian MacCallister

Ron

Response:

Typical of which stereotype exactly You somehow equate manicured conditions to ease of play, and fluidity of swing to skill.

More like ability to cope with a wide range of conditions actually And, you may want to note who won those last 6 Opens: 2001 David Duval 2000 Tiger Woods 1999 Paul Lawrie (fluke) 1998 Mark O’Meara 1997 Justin Leonard 1996 Tom Lehman

Your point being ? I don’t see Kenny Perrys name there , nor John Cook for that matter:-) Why do you take my comments about Kenny Perry as an attack on american golf per se. The guy is a one-trick pony So what if you don’t like Perry’s swing. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the recent American domination of the Open.

Correct

Response:

How about Kenny Perry kicking some euro butt over at Muirfield? I would love for kook to have to endure that.

Response:

We meet again, Mr. Kook.

Response:

It tells me that it’s not how the swing looks, it’s how effective it is mechanically that counts. You can look a bit inelegant and still score well. Take Peter Lonard for example. No one would call his swing "text-book". Yet he’s currently about 40th on the USPGA Tour Money List in his rookie year. And he’s won outside the USA in totally different conditions. Duval is the Open Champion not the British Open champion actually old bean.

Regardless of your pedantics about the name, he still won with a very effective but less than perfect swing. They didn’t call him "Duval the Shovel" for nothing. Purists still comment on his "look-up" impact position. You may also like to know that Kenny Perry’s "Homer Simpson" swing currently has him 10th on the USPGA Tour for Driving Distance (291 yards). Not bad for someone who’s 41 years old. So based on these stats, Perry is quite a bit longer than both Peter Lonard and Steve Elkington. He is also quite a bit better in driving accuracy than both. Come to think of it, he might have *just* the game for your Open courses. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

Well here is a clue – I am telling you that this, Homer Simpson turns pro golfer, clone would have difficulty remembering ‘how many’ round a British links .

Response:

He does have the worst "form" of any pro golfer I have seen. Even his putting stance is lousy…

Response:

Is this guy for real he looks and swings like Homer Simpson. He has the worst looking swing I have seen.

So a super-smooth swinger with all the right mechanics like Steve Elkington finished 3 over, and Kenny Perry finished 8-under. I wonder what that tells us … hmmm? I would love to see this guy come to Britain and play in the Open – there is no way this guy would survive or even break 100 away from pampered american courses..

Brits have been dissing American golfers ever since Walter Travis came over with his weird putter and won the British Amateur nearly a century ago. I suppose the fact that the current British Open champion is an American without the world’s most perfect swing escaped you? Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

I agree — you definitely should invite him over and play him for a few thousand pounds per hole. That swing has got to break down when the weeds are high and the clubhead won’t know how to get to the ball going through UK air. (It’s a good thing the US has its own tour so pitiful golfers like him can make a living.) Zane

Response:

You really are clueless. It ain’t how…it’s how many. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd

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Wins #3 on the season. But no Tiger in the field, so it doesn’t count.

Response:

Wins #3 on the season. But no Tiger in the field, so it doesn’t count.

Are they taking back his prize money?

Response:

I’m pretty much thinking that it’s an official win no matter which way it goes. Chris S.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wins #3 on the season. But no Tiger in the field, so it doesn’t count. Are they taking back his prize money?

Response:

Shows how much you know about golf. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wins #3 on the season. But no Tiger in the field, so it doesn’t count.

Response:

Are Bluemason golf putters the best putters ever?

admin — Sun, 13 Jul 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts

(snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave

Response:

No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts (snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave

Ouch! no, I was just going on instinct. Thanks for the validation. Tom

Response:

No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts (snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave Ouch! no, I was just going on instinct. Thanks for the validation. Tom

Well if that happens then ye he was a stealth spammer. I didn’t go searching like Dave did

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts (snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave Ouch! no, I was just going on instinct. Thanks for the validation. Tom Well if that happens then ye he was a stealth spammer. I didn’t go searching like Dave did

I was looking for a new putter…no, honest I was, really

Response:

I presume the site shows golfers giving putters a soft feel, no? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts (snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave

Response:

I presume the site shows golfers giving putters a soft feel, no?

Trust me: you don’t want to know. Yuch! Dave Jones: you should be ashamed of yourself! Go to your room!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts (snip) did you do a Google search for "Bluemason"? First site that comes up is, well, raunchy…took me 30 or 40 minutes to get out of there Dave

Response:

A few of the guys at my golf club, have started to use Bluemason golf putters. Eight of them swear by them, and I notice the glee in their eyes when they go for putts these days. One guy let me use his during a round in order to demonstrate just how good the putters are. Me? I swore by my Odessey two ball putter, but decided to give his putter a try. The result? I have never played with a putter with such soft feel and accuracy in all my 22 years of playing golf! He would not tell me where he bought the putter from though.The problem I have is that I cannot find where these putters are sold. I later found out that a joint British and German company made the Bluemason putters, and that each model were handcrafted, limited editions. People who have Bluemason putters at my golf club don’t seem to want anyone to know where to buy these putters, and no one I asked seemed to know the contact details of the company. A good number of my golfing buddies from other golf clubs have never even heard of Bluemason putters. I would be grateful if anyone could tell me where in God’s name I could find these putters or would contact me if they have any for sale.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few of the guys at my golf club, have started to use Bluemason golf putters. Eight of them swear by them, and I notice the glee in their eyes when they go for putts these days. One guy let me use his during a round in order to demonstrate just how good the putters are. Me? I swore by my Odessey two ball putter, but decided to give his putter a try. The result? I have never played with a putter with such soft feel and accuracy in all my 22 years of playing golf! He would not tell me where he bought the putter from though.The problem I have is that I cannot find where these putters are sold. I later found out that a joint British and German company made the Bluemason putters, and that each model were handcrafted, limited editions. People who have Bluemason putters at my golf club don’t seem to want anyone to know where to buy these putters, and no one I asked seemed to know the contact details of the company. A good number of my golfing buddies from other golf clubs have never even heard of Bluemason putters. I would be grateful if anyone could tell me where in God’s name I could find these putters or would contact me if they have any for sale.

get lost.

Response:

Why so harsh Puttster ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – get lost.

Response:

porn spammer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why so harsh Puttster ? get lost.

Response:

No, Matt’s right, bad netiquette by me. Putts

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – porn spammer Why so harsh Puttster ? get lost.