What part of the club face should hit the ball?

Question:

What part of the club face should hit the ball, both interms of horizontally and vertically? For me, from the stains made on the club face, balls seem to be hit in the lower, inner (closer to the shaft) quadrant of the club face. I know the middle portion of the club face shoud impact the ball. What about vertically? Where should the stains be left? On the upper portion or the lower portion?

Response:

Depends on the size of your clubhead (I’m talking about irons here). If you have normal sized ones the 2 iron should be on the center of the clubface and it progresses down to a point between the center and bottom edge for the PW. Get your 9 iron and make a mark on the middle of the clubface where the sweet spot should be. Place it behind the ball on a hard surface such as a table top and you’ll notice the sweet spot is above the center of the ball. The distance between the center of the ball and the sweet spot is how much dirt you would have to dig through if you were to hit it on the sweet spot. For this reason a clean pick off requires you strike the ball between the sweet spot and bottom edge. As long as contact is made on the same longitudinal line that the sweep spot lies there will be no twisting of the clubface and impact will feel as if you hit the sweet spot. Of course the larger the clubhead, such as the over sized, requires the ball be struck ever lower below the center. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice

Response:

I have yet to see a clubhead in which the sweet spot is in the center of the club. A few drivers, maybe. but almost every club I have ever tested has its sweet spot closer to the hosel than the toe. It is not in the visual center of any club. Prior to this modern era – speaking for clubs made 30 years ago, many of the irons’ ss’s were very close indeed to the hosel and you almost had to shank the club to get sweet spot impact. You find it by tapping the bottom of the club suspended between two fingers and locating the place on the bottom where there is no twisting due to the tapping. Then run a line from that point on the sole up to the grip cap. it is the axis of the club. The ss will be on that axis. The mfr will tell you how high from the bottom of the club is the center of percussion in the vertical dimension of the club. It’s about the 5th groove up from the bottom on irons, and varies in woods depending on amount of mass in the sole, etc. You have to ask the mfr. GH

Response:

Never is a terrible word to get in the practice of using… I have a set of Accuform irons, PTM models. The Accuform is the only balanced clubhead on the market, each club will have the center of gravity in the center of the clubface. Several BIG name pros have used Accuforms, and carried a different bag. Such is the way of a small company that makes a superior product without the marketing hype. The Canadians here should acknowledge these statements.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What part of the club face should hit the ball, both interms of horizontally and vertically? For me, from the stains made on the club face, balls seem to be hit in the lower, inner (closer to the shaft) quadrant of the club face. I know the middle portion of the club face shoud impact the ball. What about vertically? Where should the stains be left? On the upper portion or the lower portion? Depends on the size of your clubhead (I’m talking about irons here). If you have normal sized ones the 2 iron should be on the center of the clubface and it progresses down to a point between the center and bottom edge for the PW. Get your 9 iron and make a mark on the middle of the clubface where the sweet spot should be. Place it behind the ball on a hard surface such as a table top and you’ll notice the sweet spot is above the center of the ball. The distance between the center of the ball and the sweet spot is how much dirt you would have to dig through if you were to hit it on the sweet spot. For this reason a clean pick off requires you strike the ball between the sweet spot and bottom edge. As long as contact is made on the same longitudinal line that the sweep spot lies there will be no twisting of the clubface and impact will feel as if you hit the sweet spot. Of course the larger the clubhead, such as the over sized, requires the ball be struck ever lower below the center. I have yet to see a clubhead in which the sweet spot is in the center of the club. A few drivers, maybe. but almost every club I have ever tested has its sweet spot closer to the hosel than the toe. It is not in the visual center of any club. Prior to this modern era – speaking for clubs made 30 years ago, many of the irons’ ss’s were very close indeed to the hosel and you almost had to shank the club to get sweet spot impact. You find it by tapping the bottom of the club suspended between two fingers and locating the place on the bottom where there is no twisting due to the tapping. Then run a line from that point on the sole up to the grip cap. it is the axis of the club. The ss will be on that axis. The mfr will tell you how high from the bottom of the club is the center of percussion in the vertical dimension of the club. It’s about the 5th groove up from the bottom on irons, and varies in woods depending on amount of mass in the sole, etc. You have to ask the mfr. GH

Response:

You find it by tapping the bottom of the club suspended between two fingers and locating the place on the bottom where there is no twisting due to the tapping. Then run a line from that point on the sole up to the grip cap. it is the axis of the club. The ss will be on that axis. The mfr will tell you how high from the bottom of the club is the center of percussion in the vertical dimension of the club. It’s about the 5th groove up from the bottom on irons, and varies in woods depending on amount of mass in the sole, etc. You have to ask the mfr.

Or hold the club by the shaft near the hosel, hold a ball in your other hand, and tap the club face: up, down, in, out… The sweet "spot" is where the shaft doesn’t jump or twist. Easy to feel, though it’s more of an area than a spot — the shaft just gradually jumps more and more as you move out from the ideal spot. It’s in from the measured middle (towards the hosel) on my 7I, and pretty much in the middle for my 3I. Try it on a putter, too. Thomas Prufer

Response:

hmm…mine are in the center of the clubface (x direction)–or I should say, center of the groove pattern; but the groove pattern is pretty much located in the center of the head profile. Mark

Response:

I got some spray and went to the driving range to find out where I have been hitting the ball – so I could correct my swing. But this thread makes me wonder whether I’m doing the right thing. I always assumed I could tell the sweet spot by looking, but some of these posts are talking about it not being where I expect. But I haven’t seen any instructions on how to find out where I should be hitting the ball.

Response:

Generally the center of the face area is the sweet spot. Robotic tests show that the true sweet spot is sometimes a little different from the geometric center, but that’s getting fussy to the point that even pros won’t see much difference. You want to hit that center every time, and the forgiveness (and ball flight) varies when you miss depending on the club. For example, my Great Big Bertha driver will hit a perfect shot if you hit even 1/2" toward the toe, center-high. 1/2" toward the heel, center-high feels like crap and flies like crap too. When hitting off of the tee, you should strive to hit it on the vertical center of the face. Off of fairway lies, the strike spot will usually end up being a little low, but that’s ok. Most clubs are designed to give good shots in the low-center of the face for that purpose. I have a book by Greg Norman, which shows clear photos of his wedges. The grooves are badly worn all around the very center of the clubface (about the size of a ball) and the wear downward to the bottom of the clubface. No other part of that club appears to ever touch the ball. I wish I were that consistent. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What part of the club face should hit the ball, both interms of horizontally and vertically? For me, from the stains made on the club face, balls seem to be hit in the lower, inner (closer to the shaft) quadrant of the club face. I know the middle portion of the club face shoud impact the ball. What about vertically? Where should the stains be left? On the upper portion or the lower portion?

Response:

I can’t give you the technical definition of the sweet spot but I can tell you how to find it. It’s done in the same way you determine the sweet spot on the putter face. Hold the club in one hand, in a vertical position, so that the clubhead is closest to the ground and is free swinging. Then tap the club face in various spots. You are looking to find the spot where the heel and the toe of the club move the same distance when you tap. When that happens then the place you have tapped is the sweet spot. ALL clubs respond to this method. ALL clubs only have one sweet spot. The cavity back the oversized clubs all attempt to get greater mass behind the mishit shot but that still neither increases the size of the sweet spot or moves it. Bob Dye Still hacking away

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got some spray and went to the driving range to find out where I have been hitting the ball – so I could correct my swing. But this thread makes me wonder whether I’m doing the right thing. I always assumed I could tell the sweet spot by looking, but some of these posts are talking about it not being where I expect. But I haven’t seen any instructions on how to find out where I should be hitting the ball.

Response:

Pat, consider the source. In his knee jerk reaction to contradict me he didn’t even read what I wrote, he just had to contradict me no matter what I said. I said impact should be between the sweet spot (usually in the center of the clubface) and the leading edge of the club. Any normal person would have figured out I was talking about an axis that runs from the top to bottom edge. Read GH’s reply below, he says the sweet spot is closer to the hosel than the toe and is not in the center. This has nothing to do with what I said and is not even on the same axis: I have yet to see a clubhead in which the sweet spot is in the center of the club. A few drivers, maybe. but almost every club I have ever tested has its sweet spot closer to the hosel than the toe. It is not in the visual center of any club.

This is why he’s become RSG’s punching bag. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You find it by tapping the bottom of the club suspended between two fingers and locating the place on the bottom where there is no twisting due to the tapping. Then run a line from that point on the sole up to the grip cap. it is the axis of the club. The ss will be on that axis. The mfr will tell you how high from the bottom of the club is the center of percussion in the vertical dimension of the club. It’s about the 5th groove up from the bottom on irons, and varies in woods depending on amount of mass in the sole, etc. You have to ask the mfr. Or hold the club by the shaft near the hosel, hold a ball in your other hand, and tap the club face: up, down, in, out… The sweet "spot" is where the shaft doesn’t jump or twist. Easy to feel, though it’s more of an area than a spot — the shaft just gradually jumps more and more as you move out from the ideal spot. It’s in from the measured middle (towards the hosel) on my 7I, and pretty much in the middle for my 3I. Try it on a putter, too.

One niggle — according to Pelz, this is best done with the club held balanced at the angle it would lie on the ground at normal address, NOT just hanging free from two fingers. A car key works really well for the testing, by the way. As to woods (or modern titanium drivers at least), the following article is pretty instructive about why one poster is getting better hits toward the toe than the heel: http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/index.ssf?/equipment/gd200110hots… Jesse

Response:

What part of the club face should hit the ball

The part that rarely does — the sweet spot. Randy

Response:

One finds the sweet spot during a swing by feel. One feels the c/g of the clubface through sensors in the fingers, skin, etc. and the proprioception/locator neurosystem in the body. One’s eye tell him where the ball is located. So it is pretty much a computer guided INTENTION to put the ss of the clubface onto the ball. What happens in reality are two things, basically: the distance TO the ball from the shoulders is often "up for grabs" due to stretching and movement changes that occur during a swing, AND the deflection from an intended orbit of the clubhead by stresses against the clubshaft during a swing when the swing is not absolutely on plane and not deflected FROM that plane during the swing. Keeping the club on plane and on path without deflection is "orbit control" in my lingo. Getting the distance right from shoulders to ball is "depth control" and each kind of control for dead center impact is handled in different ways. The two deviations (fat and thin on the one hand, and heel or toe or center on the other) are often discussed one at a time here under the guise of "I have a problem, can someone help….?" Stay tuned. these threads are common and frequent. And answers and reasons are often posted. Sometimes people disagree about them. The subject of ball striking – dead center impact – is often neglected in most instruction, under the assumption that "you’ll get it if you just keep trying!" often without sufficient explanation to a struggler exactly WHY he is not getting perfectly centered shots. I maintain that information about the orbit and measurements from shoulders to ball can help golfers struggling with, or victimized by, mis-hits — fat, thin, toe, or heel. George Hibbard George Hibbard

Response:

DAVID LAVILLE, YOU ARE A SICK MAN. I WAS NOT CONTRADICTING YOU. I COULD NOT CARE LESS FOR YOUR POSTS. THE THREAD TITLE IS "WHAT PART OF THE CLUB FACE…." AND IT WAS ORIGINATED BY SOMEONE ELSE. MY POST WAS TO INDICATE THAT IN MOST IRONS THE C/G OR CENTER OF PERCUSSION IS NOT IN THE GEOMETRIC CENTER OF THE CLUBFACE, BUT CLOSER TO THE HOSEL. FOR THE REASON THAT THE APPARENTLY OBVIOUS – THAT THE C/G OF THE FACE IS IN THE VISUAL CENTER, IS NOT THE REALITY. IF YOU HIT SOME IRONS IN THE VISUAL CENTER YOU HAVE MISHIT THE BALL! A TRUTH THAT IS SALIENT FOR GOLF IMPACT. SUCH A MISHIT IS NOT BY MUCH, BUT SOME – MAYBE 5 YARDS ON A 5 IRON SHOT… DON’T BE SO OUTRAGEOUSLY EGOTISTICAL TO IMAGINE THAT I CARE ABOUT YOUR POST OR THAT MINE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOURS. IT WAS ON POINT. IF THE TRUTH DISAGREES WITH YOUR POSTS, THEN THAT IS TOUGH – YOUR ARGUMENT IS WITH TRUTH, NOT ME. SO STUFF IT. AND GET OF THIS KICK. he didn’t even read what I wrote, he just had to contradict me no matter what I said.

THE TRUTH CONTRADICTS YOU. I READ YOURS BUT I WAS ADDRESSING THE THREAD/ORIGNAL AUTHOR. I said impact should be between the sweet spot (usually in the center of the clubface) and the leading edge of the club. Any normal person would have figured out I was talking about an axis that runs from the top to bottom edge. Read GH’s reply below, he says the sweet spot is closer to the hosel than the toe and is not in the center. This has nothing to do with what I said and is not even on the same axis:

DUH. SO WHAT. YOUR POST STANDS. AND SO DOES MINE. I have yet to see a clubhead in which the sweet spot is in the center of the club. A few drivers, maybe. but almost every club I have ever tested has its sweet spot closer to the hosel than the toe. It is not in the visual center of any club. This is why he’s become RSG’s punching bag.

NO. HE IS DL’S PUNCHING BAG. AND OTHERS WHO WISH TO PUNCH. SORRY. YOUR SICKNESS IS GETTING ON MY NERVES. GH

Response:

Sir: If you hit the ball with the center of the clubface you have done well. There is no club where the manufacturer suggests you strike the ball somewhere else. I’ve seen the well worn center of PGA tour Pro’s irons. They can play just fine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – IF YOU HIT SOME IRONS IN THE VISUAL CENTER YOU HAVE MISHIT THE BALL! GH

Response:

My experience is the same. My best iron shots come from balls struck somewhere between the hosel and the club center. Is that by design? I’m a little confused about high versus low on the clubface, though. Given a ball sitting on the fairway, how much control does one have in getting good contact at the bottom or top of the blade unless the angle of approach is extremely steep? Can a good golfer actually control which groove is going to strike center? –Mat Twassel

Response:

GH writes: I have yet to see a clubhead in which the sweet spot is in the center of the club. A few drivers, maybe. but almost every club I have ever tested has its sweet spot closer to the hosel than the toe. It is not in the visual center of any club. My experience is the same. My best iron shots come from balls struck somewhere between the hosel and the club center. Is that by design?

I don’t know, really. I do think it is for two reasons: the hosel itself must be sturdy enough to support the joint to the shaft, (heavy at the heel), and the closing nature of the clubface may have a physics/design reason known to engineers and not to us laymen. Dunno. I’m a little confused about high versus low on the clubface, though. Given a ball sitting on the fairway, how much control does one have in getting good contact at the bottom or top of the blade unless the angle of approach is extremely steep? Can a good golfer actually control which groove is going to strike center? –Mat Twassel

PGA level golfers know full well how deep they strike their shots, and of all issues of ball striking, I venture to say that they consider that to be their most serious challenge. My opinion. And the accuracy of their distance control is evidence of it. 5 irons hole high, consistently it seems. etc. Just as Norman, Hogan, and all tour level pros have the rust or wear spots in a small circle (you will see this on good ball strikers’ clubs any day of the week), so at the top levels you can rest assured that they long since have learned and mastered "how high" they impact. Not in perfection day in and day out (I saw a shank this weekend on the Volvo), but most of the time. GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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It seems to me the most accurate way to determine the location of a head’s sweet spot is to look at the impact tape immediately after you’ve hit a shot that felt like it was on the sweet spot. -WG

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You can be close but not dead center on the c/p (percussion) and not feel it. If you are truly ON the c/p you feel "nothing". But the difference for 1/2 inch is not felt by most players. It is observable in ball flight or length, but not in feel. Who of us measures our lengths vis-a-vis impact on a daily basis…? GH

Response:

You quote the Center of Percussion to be the ‘true’ sweet spot. As I recall, it is one of three theoretical sweet spots. 1) C/Percussion, which minimizes vibration 2) C/?? which offers maximum energy return 3) C/?? which I don’t remember. I read about these with re: to tennis rackets some time ago – the ideas are in my head, but not much specifics. Generally they are located quite close to each other, but is there a reason you insist that the c/p is the only one worth considering? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me the most accurate way to determine the location of a head’s sweet spot is to look at the impact tape immediately after you’ve hit a shot that felt like it was on the sweet spot. -WG You can be close but not dead center on the c/p (percussion) and not feel it. If you are truly ON the c/p you feel "nothing". But the difference for 1/2 inch is not felt by most players. It is observable in ball flight or length, but not in feel. Who of us measures our lengths vis-a-vis impact on a daily basis…? GH

Response:

Right. Whatever makes you happy about the shot, be it distance, trajectory, or something else, can be the criteria to determine the best place on the club to hit the ball. When the feel or the ball flight is what you want, look at the impact tape. -WG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me the most accurate way to determine the location of a head’s sweet spot is to look at the impact tape immediately after you’ve hit a shot that felt like it was on the sweet spot. -WG You can be close but not dead center on the c/p (percussion) and not feel it. If you are truly ON the c/p you feel "nothing". But the difference for 1/2 inch is not felt by most players. It is observable in ball flight or length, but not in feel. Who of us measures our lengths vis-a-vis impact on a daily basis…? GH

Response:

I don’t think it makes much difference — I don’t see how the putter would "know" which way it’s hanging, and I remember wondering if it would make a diffference when reading about it in the putting bible. Go really easy with the car keys — metal will mar some putter faces, like brass (been there, done that…) A golf ball is safe, though its impact spot a bit too big to be as accurate as I’d like. Thomas Prufer

Response:

I am not physics precise, possibly, in the distinction of c/g, c/p, or sweet spot. Maybe they are "the same" – it is not that kind of concern that is the issue for real golf. What is important is that the sweet spot of the club is not always, or even often, at the visual center of the clubface. In fact in virtually every club I have ever "tested" for it, it has been nearer to the hosel than the toe. I actually have it marked on my own irons with a tiny dot I inscribed with a drill bit so that I can compare my impacts with it. Clearly if you think your sweet spot is in the center of the clubface and it really is 1/2 inch closer to the hosel, you will be mishitting shots that appear to be perfect. As I said earlier, on a 1/2 inch mishit, there will not be serious deflection or loss of distance. But there will be some, and if you are looking for yards, precision, best possibles, it makes sense to know this about your club and what it tells you about your swing. [The fact that you set up to the ball with the center of the face "at the ball" is irrelevant for the minimal difference of 1/2 inch that it makes as compared to the swinging. One measures to the ball as a result of empirical testing over hundreds or thousands of practice golf shots, either deliberately, instinctively and subconsciously, or not at all.] GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me the most accurate way to determine the location of a head’s sweet spot is to look at the impact tape immediately after you’ve hit a shot that felt like it was on the sweet spot. -WG You can be close but not dead center on the c/p (percussion) and not feel it. If you are truly ON the c/p you feel "nothing". But the difference for 1/2 inch is not felt by most players. It is observable in ball flight or length, but not in feel. Who of us measures our lengths vis-a-vis impact on a daily basis…? GH

Response:

I’m a little confused about high versus low on the clubface, though. Given a ball sitting on the fairway, how much control does one have in getting good contact at the bottom or top of the blade unless the angle of approach is extremely steep? Can a good golfer actually control which groove is going to strike center?

You don’t have to be a good golfer, as long as the shaft leans forward at impact and you strike the ball before the ground you’ll hit the correct groove (if you want to look at it that way) every time. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor of spam free golf advice

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