Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate. Not as good as you *NOW* ;^) …but when you find you are flipping your wrist at the ball and cannot control it, consider…"Frostback told me so!". I’ve been there, and I cannot get rid of it. While you can compennsate for a lot of things with a handsy swing, it quickly gets out of control. It the golf narcotic! Rob I’ll be the first to pipe in and say, "Frostback was right! Should’ve listened." It’s compelling enough for me to stick with it. Scott
I’m hoping for some equal and opposite kharma…as you seek a more handsy swing and I seek a less handsy swing, you get my handsy swing and I get your not so handsy swing! Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate. Not as good as you *NOW* ;^) …but when you find you are flipping your wrist at the ball and cannot control it, consider…"Frostback told me so!". I’ve been there, and I cannot get rid of it. While you can compennsate for a lot of things with a handsy swing, it quickly gets out of control. It the golf narcotic! Rob
I’ll be the first to pipe in and say, "Frostback was right! Should’ve listened." It’s compelling enough for me to stick with it. Scott
Response:
A.J. Bonar made some very salient points. One of those has always bothered me since no reasonable answer was forthcoming. That being: Why is golf so difficult (after all, the ball and player are static) and the training unlike other sports? My personal opinion is that golf is more mental than phyiscal. In most sports the mere fact that you try hard to execute a game-plan or strategy is a plus. As a soccer coach I know well what attitude and effort can contribute to a result. However in golf invariably the more you try (mentaly) the more you screw up. Read Rotella, I still think I’ll pass on AJ.
No need to read Rotella. I don’t have any mental "anchors" with regard to golf. A.J.’s point is to allow the subconscious to control the swing, but one does so just like we do with other stick/ball sports. Use the hands to train your use of the tool (golf club). If you don’t use the hands your training is stunted. After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate. Just some more food for thought. Yes, I have had short term success trying a new method as well. Let me know if it lasts, cause most of the time it is mind over matter.
I will. Please don’t mistake my intent. I’m not here to say I’m right or I believe this totally. I just want to make sure I’ve represented the message *I* got from the video correctly. Trust me. If it is a trap (especially as Frostback claims), I’ll let everyone know. See my messages regarding Natural Golf. That B.S. put my in a cycle I had a lot of trouble breaking. Cheers. Scott
Response:
After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate.
Not as good as you *NOW* ;^) …but when you find you are flipping your wrist at the ball and cannot control it, consider…"Frostback told me so!". I’ve been there, and I cannot get rid of it. While you can compennsate for a lot of things with a handsy swing, it quickly gets out of control. It the golf narcotic! Rob — Service is the rent we pay for being RSG Masters 2002 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS_02.html ) RSG Masters 2003 ( http://home.att.net/~janellenrob/RSG-MS-03P.html )
Response:
A.J. Bonar made some very salient points. One of those has always bothered me since no reasonable answer was forthcoming. That being: Why is golf so difficult (after all, the ball and player are static) and the training unlike other sports?
My personal opinion is that golf is more mental than phyiscal. In most sports the mere fact that you try hard to execute a game-plan or strategy is a plus. As a soccer coach I know well what attitude and effort can contribute to a result. However in golf invariably the more you try (mentaly) the more you screw up. Read Rotella, I still think I’ll pass on AJ. After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate. Just some more food for thought.
Yes, I have had short term success trying a new method as well. Let me know if it lasts, cause most of the time it is mind over matter. — bill-o
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – However, that is exactly what A.J. Bonar wants you to do. The scoop is a motion of the right hand (palmar flexion IIRC)… the slap motion. You can make that motion and still roll the wrists (forearms). Scoop and roll through the shot. <shrug Sounds like one video I won’t buy! Besides, it sounds like AJ wants a conscious wrist action. IMO this is bad. A consistent swing is one where everything; grip, stance, takeaway, follow-through; should set the golfer up to not having to think about anything. bill-o
bill-o, You know, prior to viewing the vids and using the techniques I would have agreed 100% with you. A.J. Bonar made some very salient points. One of those has always bothered me since no reasonable answer was forthcoming. That being: Why is golf so difficult (after all, the ball and player are static) and the training unlike other sports? After playing 3 rounds utilizing the points A.J. Bonar made in his videos, I’m pretty firmly entrenched in his camp now. My solid ball strikes are as solid as those from my previous dead-hands, large muscle swing… the difference is that I’m much more accurate. Just some more food for thought. Scott
Response:
However, that is exactly what A.J. Bonar wants you to do. The scoop is a motion of the right hand (palmar flexion IIRC)… the slap motion. You can make that motion and still roll the wrists (forearms). Scoop and roll through the shot. <shrug
Sounds like one video I won’t buy! Besides, it sounds like AJ wants a conscious wrist action. IMO this is bad. A consistent swing is one where everything; grip, stance, takeaway, follow-through; should set the golfer up to not having to think about anything. — bill-of
Response:
<snip This is where I have the problem – the wrists roll to ‘open’ thus closing the clubface. I’m not sure whether you mean rolling the right forearm over the left or else rolling them to open the clubface through impact. If you mean rolling so that the clubface closes then I can’t see how the first action of moving the right hand ‘under’ the left can happen. It’s sometimes difficult to put into words what is best shown by demonstration and if I saw the video I would probably grasp what you are saying better. A.J. wants you to scoop and roll through the shot. Scott
zponge, I know the closing of the clubface flies in the face of holding the face open for a soft pitch (scooping is taboo as well excepting specialty shots). However, that is exactly what A.J. Bonar wants you to do. The scoop is a motion of the right hand (palmar flexion IIRC)… the slap motion. You can make that motion and still roll the wrists (forearms). Scoop and roll through the shot. <shrug Scott
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Pitching ends up being a mini full swing with one caveat. You are using the hands and you have to hit the home run with a standard pitch. The caveat is that you employ the scooping motion of the hands with the home run (rolling of the forearms) action. A.J. demonstrated that while common sense would tell you that the rolling would cause the ball to run, it doesn’t in combination with a scooping action. I don’t really understand what you are saying here, can you go over it again? I don’t see how you can scoop and roll the wrists.
The wrists can move in 6 different ways. Cocking up and down. Moving side-to-side (like a slap). The scooping motion is moving the fingers of the right hand under the ball. Remember, the grooves of the clubface are parallel to the knuckles where the palm meets the fingers. The "home run" is rolling the forearms/wrists to open and close the club face. A.J. wants you to scoop and rolls through the shot. Scott
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip Pitching ends up being a mini full swing with one caveat. You are using the hands and you have to hit the home run with a standard pitch. The caveat is that you employ the scooping motion of the hands with the home run (rolling of the forearms) action. A.J. demonstrated that while common sense would tell you that the rolling would cause the ball to run, it doesn’t in combination with a scooping action. I don’t really understand what you are saying here, can you go over it again? I don’t see how you can scoop and roll the wrists. The wrists can move in 6 different ways. Cocking up and down. Moving side-to-side (like a slap). The scooping motion is moving the fingers of the right hand under the ball. Remember, the grooves of the clubface are parallel to the knuckles where the palm meets the fingers.
Ok so far – the right hand is tending to open the face through impact. The "home run" is rolling the forearms/wrists to open and close the club face.
This is where I have the problem – the wrists roll to ‘open’ thus closing the clubface. I’m not sure whether you mean rolling the right forearm over the left or else rolling them to open the clubface through impact. If you mean rolling so that the clubface closes then I can’t see how the first action of moving the right hand ‘under’ the left can happen. It’s sometimes difficult to put into words what is best shown by demonstration and if I saw the video I would probably grasp what you are saying better. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A.J. wants you to scoop and rolls through the shot. Scott
Response:
<snip Scott, I have reviewed this short game tape also and agree with your comments. I must say that Bonar did an excellent job describing how to calibrate your chips (ie 25%-75%) with the various irons.. Definatlety some great food for thought during this off season
I’m surprised you haven’t seen these ideas before. I know the golf periodicals will occasionally talk about this technique. Pelz describes in detail (along with graphs) how important a square clubface and lower loft are to accuracy and precision. Hmmm… maybe I’m slowly becoming a fount of useless golf knowledge. <sigh His instruction regarding the sand is different. Will have to experiment with this. I’ve always had a difficult time with the sand, but latley having been doing better employing the following technique: 1. Open stance 2. Club face wide open 3. Swing with hands high and then downward along your toe line 4. Hit down about 1/4 inch behind the ball 4. Good followthrough We’ll see if Bonar’s method works any better
Me too. I don’t get in the sand often, but was surprised at the pitching method’s ability to land a ball softly with such an aggressive stroke. thanks for the great review Eric
Anytime. It’s nice to finally hit on some good videos after all of the dogs that I watch. Pointless entertainment is O.K., but I prefer to learn a little more than "this guy is full of sh*t" after viewing. 
Scott
Response:
<snip Pitching ends up being a mini full swing with one caveat. You are using the hands and you have to hit the home run with a standard pitch. The caveat is that you employ the scooping motion of the hands with the home run (rolling of the forearms) action. A.J. demonstrated that while common sense would tell you that the rolling would cause the ball to run, it doesn’t in combination with a scooping action.
I don’t really understand what you are saying here, can you go over it again? I don’t see how you can scoop and roll the wrists.
Response:
Does A.J. say anything about using an slightly open stance in his videos?
Response:
Does A.J. say anything about using an slightly open stance in his videos?
No. In fact, the way you stand to the ball was de-emphasised. Scott
Response:
Is it worth the money? There isn’t a whole lot of meat there, but *if* it drops 5 strokes from your hcp…. it is money well spent. A.J. Golf does give you 90 days to figure this out. Some of us coming into the Winter months don’t have much else to look forward to.
While it does sound like he gives some good common sense advice, a 90 day trial period is usually a warning sign of a co. that does not refund money. The 90 day trial period is given because your right of challenging a purchase on most credit cards ends after 60 days.. me
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I promised the ladies, gentlemen and trolls a review of the bonus video and putting vid for A.J. Golf. So here it is. No disclaimers regarding opinions this time. Along with A.J. Golf’s 3 video set is a bonus video (The Truth About the Short Game) and a $20 offering (The Truth About Putting). Each lasts about 30 minutes. RATING: (1 to 10 – 10 being outstanding): 6 QUALITY: The quality is the same as the other videos in the set. However, in order to understand some of the content in the bonus video, you’ll have to have watched the previous "Truth" vids first. CONTENT: The Truth About Putting: A.J. Bonar wants you to increase your chances of 1 putting while decreasing the occurrences of 3 putts. Great mission statement, but how? A.J. Bonar comes from the Harvey Penick school. In other words, the golf ball should drop into the hole like a mouse. Preferably a dead mouse. A.J. demonstrated that the hole is effectively over 7" wide if the speed of the ball will carry it no further than 6" past the back of the cup. In other words, the ball will slide in the side or back door with that speed. (I guess A.J. didn’t spend too much time with Dave Pelz regarding the lumpy donut) I will agree with Bonar regarding the following: the hole will be a little over 1" wide with too much speed… too much speed and you risk not only missing, but give yourself the opportunity to 3 putt. A.J. is saying (heretical again) practice your speed. Speed is more important than line. Never be short, but never be more than 6" past the cup and you’ll never 3 putt. He also stated that you never want to have any forearm rotation w/ the putting stroke (scooping with the putter (adding loft) if far more desirable). The face orientation is the single most important part of the equation here. Your path can be poor, but the face must be toward the target point (sometimes the hole, sometime the break point). His stroke is a bit of a shove. Putter face and shaft move at the same speed through the ball. <shrug The Truth About the Short Game: A.J. goes through chipping. Chipping is the standard Pelzian affair w/ regard to ratios of ball airborne : ball rolling. You have to find those percentages, but a straighter face club is more preferable if the circumstances allow. (ex. 6 iron might have a 15% fly : 85% roll for you). Why is the straighter face club more preferable? Because you are supposed to pick an intermediate target to land the ball where the subsequent roll will take it to the hole. The closer the intermediate target, the easier it is to hit. The chipping stroke is performed like a putt. Reverse overlap grip to get the full right hand on the shaft. I do this anyway and consider myself a very good chipper of the ball. Pitching ends up being a mini full swing with one caveat. You are using the hands and you have to hit the home run with a standard pitch. The caveat is that you employ the scooping motion of the hands with the home run (rolling of the forearms) action. A.J. demonstrated that while common sense would tell you that the rolling would cause the ball to run, it doesn’t in combination with a scooping action. Surpisingly he is correct. This motion is very easy and the ball lands predictably and soft. A.J. isn’t saying that you can’t hold the face open or you have to employ the scoop ( remember we are becoming craftsmen with the golf club, so learn your craft), but he is setting the benchmark for the pitch shot. Personally, I found I could be much more aggressive with this shot than my traditional pitching motion. A.J. also demonstrated that it works out of very difficult lies as well. Finally, A.J. Bonar employed his technique on the sand shot. It is the same as the pitch (yes, you do not hold the club face open or take an open stance…. again, you can do this to get different shot types, but he is demonstrating the prototypical sand shot). The only difference is that you want to break an imaginary tee some 1/4" below the ball. I haven’t been in the sand, so I can’t comment. SUMMARY: I don’t have too many arguments regarding any of the above. The putting is common sense. You pick your line and have conviction. The speed is what you think of when you are standing over the ball. So speed is key before pulling the trigger. Experiment a bit and see whether or not you make putts more using Pelz or Bonar. The short game portion was very standard too. Only the bit about allowing the club close (ala the full swing) with pitching/sand shots was something that wasn’t intuitive. Is it worth the money? There isn’t a whole lot of meat there, but *if* it drops 5 strokes from your hcp…. it is money well spent. A.J. Golf does give you 90 days to figure this out. Some of us coming into the Winter months don’t have much else to look forward to. Scott
Scott, I have reviewed this short game tape also and agree with your comments. I must say that Bonar did an excellent job describing how to calibrate your chips (ie 25%-75%) with the various irons.. Definatlety some great food for thought during this off season His instruction regarding the sand is different. Will have to experiment with this. I’ve always had a difficult time with the sand, but latley having been doing better employing the following technique: 1. Open stance 2. Club face wide open 3. Swing with hands high and then downward along your toe line 4. Hit down about 1/4 inch behind the ball 4. Good followthrough We’ll see if Bonar’s method works any better thanks for the great review Eric
Response:
I promised the ladies, gentlemen and trolls a review of the bonus video and putting vid for A.J. Golf. So here it is. No disclaimers regarding opinions this time. Along with A.J. Golf’s 3 video set is a bonus video (The Truth About the Short Game) and a $20 offering (The Truth About Putting). Each lasts about 30 minutes. RATING: (1 to 10 – 10 being outstanding): 6 QUALITY: The quality is the same as the other videos in the set. However, in order to understand some of the content in the bonus video, you’ll have to have watched the previous "Truth" vids first. CONTENT: The Truth About Putting: A.J. Bonar wants you to increase your chances of 1 putting while decreasing the occurrences of 3 putts. Great mission statement, but how? A.J. Bonar comes from the Harvey Penick school. In other words, the golf ball should drop into the hole like a mouse. Preferably a dead mouse. A.J. demonstrated that the hole is effectively over 7" wide if the speed of the ball will carry it no further than 6" past the back of the cup. In other words, the ball will slide in the side or back door with that speed. (I guess A.J. didn’t spend too much time with Dave Pelz regarding the lumpy donut) I will agree with Bonar regarding the following: the hole will be a little over 1" wide with too much speed… too much speed and you risk not only missing, but give yourself the opportunity to 3 putt. A.J. is saying (heretical again) practice your speed. Speed is more important than line. Never be short, but never be more than 6" past the cup and you’ll never 3 putt. He also stated that you never want to have any forearm rotation w/ the putting stroke (scooping with the putter (adding loft) if far more desirable). The face orientation is the single most important part of the equation here. Your path can be poor, but the face must be toward the target point (sometimes the hole, sometime the break point). His stroke is a bit of a shove. Putter face and shaft move at the same speed through the ball. <shrug The Truth About the Short Game: A.J. goes through chipping. Chipping is the standard Pelzian affair w/ regard to ratios of ball airborne : ball rolling. You have to find those percentages, but a straighter face club is more preferable if the circumstances allow. (ex. 6 iron might have a 15% fly : 85% roll for you). Why is the straighter face club more preferable? Because you are supposed to pick an intermediate target to land the ball where the subsequent roll will take it to the hole. The closer the intermediate target, the easier it is to hit. The chipping stroke is performed like a putt. Reverse overlap grip to get the full right hand on the shaft. I do this anyway and consider myself a very good chipper of the ball. Pitching ends up being a mini full swing with one caveat. You are using the hands and you have to hit the home run with a standard pitch. The caveat is that you employ the scooping motion of the hands with the home run (rolling of the forearms) action. A.J. demonstrated that while common sense would tell you that the rolling would cause the ball to run, it doesn’t in combination with a scooping action. Surpisingly he is correct. This motion is very easy and the ball lands predictably and soft. A.J. isn’t saying that you can’t hold the face open or you have to employ the scoop ( remember we are becoming craftsmen with the golf club, so learn your craft), but he is setting the benchmark for the pitch shot. Personally, I found I could be much more aggressive with this shot than my traditional pitching motion. A.J. also demonstrated that it works out of very difficult lies as well. Finally, A.J. Bonar employed his technique on the sand shot. It is the same as the pitch (yes, you do not hold the club face open or take an open stance…. again, you can do this to get different shot types, but he is demonstrating the prototypical sand shot). The only difference is that you want to break an imaginary tee some 1/4" below the ball. I haven’t been in the sand, so I can’t comment. SUMMARY: I don’t have too many arguments regarding any of the above. The putting is common sense. You pick your line and have conviction. The speed is what you think of when you are standing over the ball. So speed is key before pulling the trigger. Experiment a bit and see whether or not you make putts more using Pelz or Bonar. The short game portion was very standard too. Only the bit about allowing the club close (ala the full swing) with pitching/sand shots was something that wasn’t intuitive. Is it worth the money? There isn’t a whole lot of meat there, but *if* it drops 5 strokes from your hcp…. it is money well spent. A.J. Golf does give you 90 days to figure this out. Some of us coming into the Winter months don’t have much else to look forward to. Scott