Question:
1. What is the definition of "par"
It’s a bit arbitrary, frankly. 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game
can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par
course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf
competence for amateurs? Why not? About as correct as calling it +3 or +4 
3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the
game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial
commitment to custom equiptment. Just because you are tall doesn’t mean you’ll need non-standard equipment. Besides, "custom equipment" is basically standard nowadays. The first thing to do is get fit. Many golf shops do it for free. Once you know the correct lengths and shaft flex, you can buy used clubs (preferably from that shop) or whatever. The lies can be bent to fit you.
Response:
1. What is the definition of "par" 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game
can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par
course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf
competence for amateurs? Why not? 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the
game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial
commitment to custom equiptment. First thing is to get fitted. Most clubbuilders will be able to make you clubs that will be better for you than "brand name" clubs and for less money, and the brand namers need to be fitted and tweaked anyway – mfr standards are very loose. Seriously. There are terrible mistakes in off-the-shelf clubs no matter how expensive they are! Half of the work my fitter reports IS fixing "brand name clubs" for consistency re lie, head weights, flexes, and lengths. So the buyer 1) paid more for the clubs to begin with, and 2) paid additional to have them fixed – sometimes involving new shafts for the whole set – $30 per club incl. labor! The tolerances "allowed" by mfrs includ + or – 2 degrees for lies and lofts (sometimes overlapping and making 6 irons stronger than 5s), + or – several grams for headweights (mine overlapped twice in a single set), and you must have lengths and lies for you, especially with the probability that your height, like mine, requires other than standard specs. It is a huge secret that seems to be ignored by people still mesmerized by the unconsciously accepted belief that brand name equates with better quality. That would be fine if 1) you COULD buy sets that are matched and 2) that are matched to YOU. But most components that an ethical fitter would use are inexpensive and of very high quality, both in mfr/design and in appearance. Example: iron heads $9, shafts $9, grips $2. Fitter fee/markup $20. Equates to $40 per club. Can’t beat that with a golf stick! George Hibbard www.perfectimpact.com
Response:
Thanks for the clarificztions and all the advice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. What is the definition of "par" 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf competence for amateurs? Why not? 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial commitment to custom equiptment.
Response:
Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf competence for amateurs? Why not?
The average handicap of all US amateur golfers is something like 18-20. So +2 would not be a good standard. Ulrich
Response:
1. What is the definition of "par" 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf competence for amateurs? Why not? 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill advised finacial commitment to custom equiptment.
When the term Bogie was invented, it meant what a good amateur would hit. Sometimes par and bogie would be the same thing for a hole, or they could vary by 2 strokes. But it was easier to simply determine par and calculate bogie from that, so our modern definition evolved. But it isn’t a bad idea to come up with your own personal "par" for various holes. Don’t play that hole to some pro’s expectations, play it with your own game.
Response:
1. What is the definition of "par"
Generally the par for a hole is set by its length (although not always) – I hope that I get this correct – par 3s are up to 275 yards, par 4s are over 275 and under 475, par 5s are above 475 yards. But it doesn’t really matter as it’s the same for everybody playing the same course. There are easy and hard par 3s (though I’ve yet to find the easy ones easy) etc. 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game
can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par
course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf
competence for amateurs? Why not? It depends on the amateur but an amateur who plays every week wouldn’t score 2 shots worse per hole than par; I would guess that 70% or so of regular club golfers would generally score on average 1 shot worse than par per hole; quite a few will score 9 over or less per round and the very good will be say 2 over or less per round. 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the
game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial
commitment to custom equiptment. Go to a local golf shop and ask if they will fit clubs for you – i.e. they will take measurements and get you to hit some shots before deciding. If you are just beginning then I would suggest getting a good 2nd hand set – some shops will allow you a certain period (say 4 weeks) within which you can exchange them for another set. Also just because you are taller than average doesn’t mean that you will need longer clubs – it depends on the length of your arms, legs, back etc. – in fact if you have very long arms relative to your height then it’s possible that you may need shorter clubs. It’s possible that you may need clubs with a slightly more upright lie but then again maybe not. Mike Dalecki posts to this group and he is a club fitter. He may be able to give much better advice than I’ve tried to give.
Response:
1. What is the definition of "par" 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf competence for amateurs? Why not? 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial commitment to custom equiptment.
Response:
1. What is the definition of "par"
Par is the score a competent golfer should shoot on a hole. It has nothing to do with being amateur or pro. 2. Lets assume "par" is what a club level pro would shoot. Since the game can be divided into two parts fairway work and green work. An Amateur should be worse than a pro in both areas. So if an amateur play a 72 par course they should expect to shore +2 on each hole for an average score of 108. (one extra stroke on the fairway + one extra stroke on the green) Would it be incorrect to call +2 per hole the standard of basic golf competence for amateurs? Why not?
Never try to reduce golf to logic, assumptions will kill you in this game See number 1 above, it negagtes your #2 3. If you are a beginner, like myself, and comtemplate taking up the game, but cannot use standard equiptment, (taller than average) what choices are available before making a large and possibly ill adviced finacial commitment to custom equiptment.
Don’t mean to be nitpicky but define average…do you mean to imply that your arms are also longer? If they are long enough standard clubs may fit. Find in your area a clubfitter that has a good reputation, (check for referrals) and see him for a fitting. It will be money well spent Bob Dye Still Hacking Away No Mulligans, Putting them all in First Round of Golf 1951 (remove spaces to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –