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Lateral Water hazard rule

Question:

So once they determine where the ball last crossed the boundary of the lateral hazard, they have "the spot" from which they can pursue one of the five options of play for a lateral hazard.  The one he mentioned — finding the spot on the #18 side of the hazard that’s the same distance from the hole as the spot where the ball last crossed the boundary of the hazard, then dropping within two club lengths of that — is indeed much closer to the hole than the illegal drop near the point where the ball first entered into the hazard, way back on the other side of the dog-leg.

Yes. The general procedure for relief from a lateral hazard is clearly outlined in Decision 26-1/15, which has a diagram. The important conceptual points to realise are that: 1. the point of entry for determining relief is where the ball *last* crossed the hazard margin. 2. the player must take a "radius" from the hole to determine the equidistant point on the other side of the hazard, not just find the point straight across. I gather that’s the meaning of "equidistant". ;-) — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

You can legitimately drop on either side of the lateral hazard. But since the drop on the other side must be equidistant from the hole, I can’t see how it can legally leave you a shorter shot.

As pointed out in one of the other post here, the comparison is with dropping where the ball first crosses, which is usually about 250 yards out from the green, with somewhere near where it last corsses, about 150 yards out.  The drop at the first crossing is probably wrong anyway.  Dropping on the 17th is just not a good option.  It’s a long walk to a bridge to get over there, then you are in the way of people hitting up the 17th hole, and to get back onto the 18th you have to go back to the bridge or to another one beyond the green, so people just don’t do it unless they have a power cart and the course is empty. — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   which basically leaves only a short iron to the green. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

Always, last crossed the margins of the hazard entering the hazard regardless o fho wmany times it crosses the margins..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Note that many courses have a local rule that prohibits dropping on the other side. For player safety, this might well be one of those cases. The course had this rule for a while, and dropped it.  Actually it was just printed on the cards and I suspect when they reprinted the cards someone forgot to add it.  Now if that were the rule, could you still drop by the last crossing (which was into the hazard from the wrong (17th) side), or would you have to drop near the first crossing? — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

Note that many courses have a local rule that prohibits dropping on the other side. For player safety, this might well be one of those cases.

The course had this rule for a while, and dropped it.  Actually it was just printed on the cards and I suspect when they reprinted the cards someone forgot to add it.  Now if that were the rule, could you still drop by the last crossing (which was into the hazard from the wrong (17th) side), or would you have to drop near the first crossing? — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

I’ve just read the rule . You are correct ! George ~ :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would have thought that if a ball crosses over the river from the 18th to the 17th without actually going into the hazard then the option to drop on the 18th does not apply since the ball did not go INTO the hazard. The first point of entry INTO the hazard is from the 17th. George ~ :) message I think you answered your own question.  Yes, you can drop on the other side of a lateral hazard – NO CLOSER TO THE HOLE!!!  You were doing fine until you stated that "which basically leaves only a short iron to the green". That certainly sounds like its closer to the hole and that is NOT allowed. No, the original poster has it right.  The little-known option would let him drop on the 18th-hole side of the hazard, even though it last crossed on the 17th-hole side.  He was saying that this is much closer to the hole than dropping back where the ball first crossed the 18th-hole side of the hazard. They’re play #18, a dog-leg right with a lateral hazard creek on the right that separates it from #17.  The shot in question first crosses into the hazard (on the #18 side), then out of the hazard (on the #17 side), then back into the hazard (on the #17 side).  People are dropping near the *first* point, where it first crossed into the hazard, because the #18 side is the only side of the hazard that’s easily accessible.  In reality, the are not only allowed to drop near the *last* point, where it last crossed into the hazard, but they *must* do so.  That first point is irrelevant for the purposes of determining a legal drop. So once they determine where the ball last crossed the boundary of the lateral hazard, they have "the spot" from which they can pursue one of the five options of play for a lateral hazard.  The one he mentioned — finding the spot on the #18 side of the hazard that’s the same distance from the hole as the spot where the ball last crossed the boundary of the hazard, then dropping within two club lengths of that — is indeed much closer to the hole than the illegal drop near the point where the ball first entered into the hazard, way back on the other side of the dog-leg. Doug —  ___,  Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer  o    IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont           |   |    Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752                |  /                                                                |    .   My homepage:  http://doug.obscurestuff.com                  (|)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would have thought that if a ball crosses over the river from the 18th to the 17th without actually going into the hazard then the option to drop on the 18th does not apply since the ball did not go INTO the hazard. The first point of entry INTO the hazard is from the 17th. George ~ :) message I think you answered your own question.  Yes, you can drop on the other side of a lateral hazard – NO CLOSER TO THE HOLE!!!  You were doing fine until you stated that "which basically leaves only a short iron to the green". That certainly sounds like its closer to the hole and that is NOT allowed. No, the original poster has it right.  The little-known option would let him drop on the 18th-hole side of the hazard, even though it last crossed on the 17th-hole side.  He was saying that this is much closer to the hole than dropping back where the ball first crossed the 18th-hole side of the hazard. They’re play #18, a dog-leg right with a lateral hazard creek on the right that separates it from #17.  The shot in question first crosses into the hazard (on the #18 side), then out of the hazard (on the #17 side), then back into the hazard (on the #17 side).  People are dropping near the *first* point, where it first crossed into the hazard, because the #18 side is the only side of the hazard that’s easily accessible.  In reality, the are not only allowed to drop near the *last* point, where it last crossed into the hazard, but they *must* do so.  That first point is irrelevant for the purposes of determining a legal drop. So once they determine where the ball last crossed the boundary of the lateral hazard, they have "the spot" from which they can pursue one of the five options of play for a lateral hazard.  The one he mentioned — finding the spot on the #18 side of the hazard that’s the same distance from the hole as the spot where the ball last crossed the boundary of the hazard, then dropping within two club lengths of that — is indeed much closer to the hole than the illegal drop near the point where the ball first entered into the hazard, way back on the other side of the dog-leg. Doug —  ___,  Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer  o    IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont           |   |    Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752                |  /                                                                |    .   My homepage:  http://doug.obscurestuff.com                  (|)

Response:

Note that many courses have a local rule that prohibits dropping on the other side. For player safety, this might well be one of those cases.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A recent magazine article pointed out a lateral water hazard option I never realized I had — dropping at the point the ball last crossed the margin and on the other side of the hazard, same distance from the hole.  I’m wondering if this applies to a common situation at my home course. The 17th and 18th holes run on opposite sides of the Kishwaukee river (really just a creek), which is marked as a lateral hazard on both sides. The 18th is a dogleg right which curves around a bend in the river about 200 yards off the tee, meaning a good strategy for confident hitters is to cut the corner flying over the bend to the fairway or right rough on the far side.  Unfortunately, a common mistake is a push that goes far enough right to clear the near side of the bend, passing over part of the 17th hole on the other side, and then lands in the river trying to cross back.  Now the location of the bridges over the river make it  very difficult to actually play from the right side, so most people who do this drop where the shot first crossed the river, which is of course a LONG way from the hole. After reading the short article and the rule book I’m wondering if I don’t have the option of noting where the ball entered the river from the 17th, and dropping on the near (18th) hole side of it,  which basically leaves only a short iron to the green.  I know it may be hard to visualize this one without a map) — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

I would have thought that if a ball crosses over the river from the 18th to the 17th without actually going into the hazard then the option to drop on the 18th does not apply since the ball did not go INTO the hazard. The first point of entry INTO the hazard is from the 17th. George ~ :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think you answered your own question.  Yes, you can drop on the other side of a lateral hazard – NO CLOSER TO THE HOLE!!!  You were doing fine until you stated that "which basically leaves only a short iron to the green". That certainly sounds like its closer to the hole and that is NOT allowed. No, the original poster has it right.  The little-known option would let him drop on the 18th-hole side of the hazard, even though it last crossed on the 17th-hole side.  He was saying that this is much closer to the hole than dropping back where the ball first crossed the 18th-hole side of the hazard. They’re play #18, a dog-leg right with a lateral hazard creek on the right that separates it from #17.  The shot in question first crosses into the hazard (on the #18 side), then out of the hazard (on the #17 side), then back into the hazard (on the #17 side).  People are dropping near the *first* point, where it first crossed into the hazard, because the #18 side is the only side of the hazard that’s easily accessible.  In reality, the are not only allowed to drop near the *last* point, where it last crossed into the hazard, but they *must* do so.  That first point is irrelevant for the purposes of determining a legal drop. So once they determine where the ball last crossed the boundary of the lateral hazard, they have "the spot" from which they can pursue one of the five options of play for a lateral hazard.  The one he mentioned — finding the spot on the #18 side of the hazard that’s the same distance from the hole as the spot where the ball last crossed the boundary of the hazard, then dropping within two club lengths of that — is indeed much closer to the hole than the illegal drop near the point where the ball first entered into the hazard, way back on the other side of the dog-leg. Doug —  ___,  Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer  o    IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont           |   |    Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752                |  /                                                                |    .   My homepage:  http://doug.obscurestuff.com                  (|)

Response:

I think you answered your own question.  Yes, you can drop on the other side of a lateral hazard – NO CLOSER TO THE HOLE!!!  You were doing fine until you stated that "which basically leaves only a short iron to the green". That certainly sounds like its closer to the hole and that is NOT allowed.

No, the original poster has it right.  The little-known option would let him drop on the 18th-hole side of the hazard, even though it last crossed on the 17th-hole side.  He was saying that this is much closer to the hole than dropping back where the ball first crossed the 18th-hole side of the hazard. They’re play #18, a dog-leg right with a lateral hazard creek on the right that separates it from #17.  The shot in question first crosses into the hazard (on the #18 side), then out of the hazard (on the #17 side), then back into the hazard (on the #17 side).  People are dropping near the *first* point, where it first crossed into the hazard, because the #18 side is the only side of the hazard that’s easily accessible.  In reality, the are not only allowed to drop near the *last* point, where it last crossed into the hazard, but they *must* do so.  That first point is irrelevant for the purposes of determining a legal drop. So once they determine where the ball last crossed the boundary of the lateral hazard, they have "the spot" from which they can pursue one of the five options of play for a lateral hazard.  The one he mentioned — finding the spot on the #18 side of the hazard that’s the same distance from the hole as the spot where the ball last crossed the boundary of the hazard, then dropping within two club lengths of that — is indeed much closer to the hole than the illegal drop near the point where the ball first entered into the hazard, way back on the other side of the dog-leg. Doug —  ___,  Doug Massey, ASIC Digital Logic Designer  o    IBM Microelectronics Division, Burlington, Vermont           |   |    Phone: (802)769-7095 t/l: 446-7095 fax: x6752                |  /                                                                |    .   My homepage:  http://doug.obscurestuff.com                  (|)

Response:

I think you answered your own question.  Yes, you can drop on the other side of a lateral hazard – NO CLOSER TO THE HOLE!!!  You were doing fine until you stated that "which basically leaves only a short iron to the green". That certainly sounds like its closer to the hole and that is NOT allowed. Rick

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A recent magazine article pointed out a lateral water hazard option I never realized I had — dropping at the point the ball last crossed the margin and on the other side of the hazard, same distance from the hole.  I’m wondering if this applies to a common situation at my home course. The 17th and 18th holes run on opposite sides of the Kishwaukee river (really just a creek), which is marked as a lateral hazard on both sides. The 18th is a dogleg right which curves around a bend in the river about 200 yards off the tee, meaning a good strategy for confident hitters is to cut the corner flying over the bend to the fairway or right rough on the far side.  Unfortunately, a common mistake is a push that goes far enough right to clear the near side of the bend, passing over part of the 17th hole on the other side, and then lands in the river trying to cross back.  Now the location of the bridges over the river make it  very difficult to actually play from the right side, so most people who do this drop where the shot first crossed the river, which is of course a LONG way from the hole. After reading the short article and the rule book I’m wondering if I don’t have the option of noting where the ball entered the river from the 17th, and dropping on the near (18th) hole side of it,  which basically leaves only a short iron to the green.  I know it may be hard to visualize this one without a map) — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

Response:

  which basically leaves only a short iron to the green. You can legitimately drop on either side of the lateral hazard. But since the drop on the other side must be equidistant from the hole, I can’t see how it can legally leave you a shorter shot. — Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=wilsonc Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com

Response:

  which basically leaves only a short iron to the green. You can legitimately drop on either side of the lateral hazard. But since the drop on the other side must be equidistant from the hole, I can’t see how it can legally leave you a shorter shot.

I can.  People weren’t going to the other side of the hazard as it was a long trip.   I have a local lake where I saw where I hit my ball on the other side, but knew it would take me 5 minutes to get a tough shot.   I pretended it rolled in the water out of consideration to others. He said that people were taking the next shot as though it was a non-lateral hazard because they didn’t want to walk around the water hazard.   This ruling says they can get as close as they would have had they walked around the hazard to make their drop.   But while staying on this side of the hazard.

Response:

Colin and I seem to agree.  What don’t we understand about dropping no closer to the hole?  I don’t believe he stated that they weren’t playing as a hazard.  If your going to drop on the opposite side of a lateral hazard – it has to be at least the same distance from the hole.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A recent magazine article pointed out a lateral water hazard option I never realized I had — dropping at the point the ball last crossed the margin and on the other side of the hazard, same distance from the hole.  I’m wondering if this applies to a common situation at my home course. The 17th and 18th holes run on opposite sides of the Kishwaukee river (really just a creek), which is marked as a lateral hazard on both sides. The 18th is a dogleg right which curves around a bend in the river about 200 yards off the tee, meaning a good strategy for confident hitters is to cut the corner flying over the bend to the fairway or right rough on the far side.  Unfortunately, a common mistake is a push that goes far enough right to clear the near side of the bend, passing over part of the 17th hole on the other side, and then lands in the river trying to cross back.  Now the location of the bridges over the river make it  very difficult to actually play from the right side, so most people who do this drop where the shot first crossed the river, which is of course a LONG way from the hole. After reading the short article and the rule book I’m wondering if I don’t have the option of noting where the ball entered the river from the 17th, and dropping on the near (18th) hole side of it,  which basically leaves only a short iron to the green.  I know it may be hard to visualize this one without a map) — http://home.att.net/~wamontgomery )

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