Question:
Jesse: Why not write me at I think we can have a more interesting conversation there… But to answer some of your questions/observations. I used to sleigh ride in the "soup bowl", I think the 4th hole in Forest Park. I would not move the ball if playing for money. I just dont think a rock should be in the middle of the fairway and I am not going to ruin an expensive club because of faulty groundskeeping. But I do understand your position. I have a friend that is constantly trying to get us to play by his ‘daily rules’, which change by day I think. I just ignore him, but one of my playing partners gets quite pissed at him sometimes. My feeling is that if, in your own mind, you want to say, take a mulligan each 9, then you play by your standards. Eventually, you will want to stop taking that mulligan. That is how it happened with me. THe beauty of an official golf handicap is that you can play any course and the slope system makes up for it, so do not worry about playing Kissena, as long as they have the slope system reating you are going to be fine. One bad thing about the handicap system is that I am ALWAYS fighting to keep meet the goal. I had a few good rounds this year in Vermont (I don’t know why), and it really reduced my hadicap to a very hard number for me to meet. IT is really great that you dropped your handicap so much…now all you have to do is keep practicing during the winter so it will not soar next spring. Cherry creek is about 20 miles from me, in Riverhead. I live in Port Jefferson Station, which is exit 63 on the LIE. If you are interested in all the New York Metro courses there is a book that is about 13 bucks called GOLF Directories USA NEW YORK METRO EDITION. It is well worth the money….. BTW, I am always looking for a golf partner for a round or two, so if your ever off during the week, and want to play out here, let me know! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who replied for their kind words. Hi Jesse. I learned to play golf at Forest Park (if your talking about the one in Queens). I am indeed. I remember playing there and bringing a small hammer to put the tees in the ground. I know since American Golf took it over some time ago, it got much better, although I am not sure they can do anything about the leaves. Well, I’d be a lot more accepting of the leaves — it’s sometimes like fording a small crunchy brown stream just to walk down the fairways this time of year! — if I didn’t have Dyker Beach for a comparison. Although Dyker is obviously a less wooded course, they do have a fair number of trees, and have managed to keep the fairways and greens completely free of leaves for the entire fall. But to be fair, it’s not more than once or twice a round that the tee boxes at Forest Park require the judicious application of a rock to get a tee into the ground. I love the place — it’s like a home course to me. If your asking the question ("Did I break 90?") then you have not convinced yourself that you have. I play within myself and have my own ‘rules’. For instance, I do not move my ball at all, unless there is danger of ruining my club. I will move it (for example) if it is sitting next to an imbedded rock that I cannot move, and I don’t charge myself with the stroke. Many people may not approve of it, but I play golf against myself only. When I break my "target" I am happy. My target number is not important to anyone but me. Good points, particularly about setting targets that are meaningful for yourself. I had set the goal for myself to break 100, learn the rules as well as possible, and establish a USGA handicap last year (my first full year playing regularly), all of which I did. This year I wanted to break 90 and drop my handicap below 25. I suppose I consider myself to have met the goals for this year, though not exceeded them by much, if that makes any sense. I did manage to drop my index from a 32 to a 24, which I’m proud of. But like Jeff, I suppose I too really don’t consider a course shorter than 6000 yds to be "full sized." Heck, I had shot an 88 at Kissena Park earlier this year, but that course is only par 66, and there was no way I was considering that to have met my goal for the year. The goals for next year will be to break 85 and drop my index below bogey. With regard to rocks, a frequent problem around here, I will usually play it down because I’m not particularly concerned about scuffing up my clubs. But if I do move it, I’ll take the penalty. I’ve been surprised at how many strangers I’m paired up to play with will try to coax me out of taking a penalty in that situation, or try to convince me to move my ball out of a divot, etc. I just smile and say I’m practicing for when I need to make those shots in competition one day. I try not to be a golf lawyer, and I really couldn’t care less whether other people follow any or all of the rules so long as they’re courteous and quick. But I can’t bring myself to submit a score for handicapping if the round wasn’t played under the Rules. Doing so would just feel dishonest to me, and I have no desire to feel dishonest about something I do just for play. More importantly, my daughter will be old enough to start playing with me in a few years, and I want to set a good example. I now live on Long Island, recently retired (October 2002), and joined Cherry Creek Golf course. $2500.00 yearly fee, gets me $500.00 credit in pro shot and/or eatery and free golf Mon-Thurs anytime and Fri/Sat/Sun after 1 PM at two different courses. In November I got in 16 rounds. I love it! Congratulations on the retirement. Sounds like a very good deal, particularly for Long Island. What town is that in? I’m always interested in new places to play. Jesse
Response:
Hey! You stole my thread (well, sorta) http://tinyurl.com/37g8 I love it. That’s actually one of the joys of using Google to read the group at work — somebody will choose a thread title that’s been used several times in the past, and you sometimes get this interesting historical perspective on an issue.
A couple of weeks ago I checked from work using Google and saw that John Melville (Whippy Tempomaster guy) was posting. I took me a couple of minutes to realize I was reading a 2 year old post mixed in with a present day thread. By the way, do you still use your Slippery Frog? I used one last year, but decided to learn to chip with my irons this year. Still miss that club sometimes, though.
Nope—I’ve been using my 5 wood for that shot. Coincidentally, however, I did make a comment to my playing partner this weekend that the Frog may come out of retirement because of the way our new greens are laid out. Bump and run is definitely the shot of choice on many holes and that’s a good club for doing that. Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
Hey! You stole my thread (well, sorta) http://tinyurl.com/37g8
I love it. That’s actually one of the joys of using Google to read the group at work — somebody will choose a thread title that’s been used several times in the past, and you sometimes get this interesting historical perspective on an issue. By the way, do you still use your Slippery Frog? I used one last year, but decided to learn to chip with my irons this year. Still miss that club sometimes, though.
Response:
Hey! You stole my thread (well, sorta) http://tinyurl.com/37g8 Dave Clary/Corpus Christi,TX Home: http://home.stx.rr.com/dclary Never Forget: http://www.politicsandprotest.org RSG Roll Call http://www.rec-sport-golf.com/members/?rollcall=claryd
Response:
Thanks to all who replied for their kind words. Hi Jesse. I learned to play golf at Forest Park (if your talking about the one in Queens).
I am indeed. I remember playing there and bringing a small hammer to put the tees in the ground. I know since American Golf took it over some time ago, it got much better, although I am not sure they can do anything about the leaves.
Well, I’d be a lot more accepting of the leaves — it’s sometimes like fording a small crunchy brown stream just to walk down the fairways this time of year! — if I didn’t have Dyker Beach for a comparison. Although Dyker is obviously a less wooded course, they do have a fair number of trees, and have managed to keep the fairways and greens completely free of leaves for the entire fall. But to be fair, it’s not more than once or twice a round that the tee boxes at Forest Park require the judicious application of a rock to get a tee into the ground. I love the place — it’s like a home course to me. If your asking the question ("Did I break 90?") then you have not convinced yourself that you have. I play within myself and have my own ‘rules’. For instance, I do not move my ball at all, unless there is danger of ruining my club. I will move it (for example) if it is sitting next to an imbedded rock that I cannot move, and I don’t charge myself with the stroke. Many people may not approve of it, but I play golf against myself only. When I break my "target" I am happy. My target number is not important to anyone but me.
Good points, particularly about setting targets that are meaningful for yourself. I had set the goal for myself to break 100, learn the rules as well as possible, and establish a USGA handicap last year (my first full year playing regularly), all of which I did. This year I wanted to break 90 and drop my handicap below 25. I suppose I consider myself to have met the goals for this year, though not exceeded them by much, if that makes any sense. I did manage to drop my index from a 32 to a 24, which I’m proud of. But like Jeff, I suppose I too really don’t consider a course shorter than 6000 yds to be "full sized." Heck, I had shot an 88 at Kissena Park earlier this year, but that course is only par 66, and there was no way I was considering that to have met my goal for the year. The goals for next year will be to break 85 and drop my index below bogey. With regard to rocks, a frequent problem around here, I will usually play it down because I’m not particularly concerned about scuffing up my clubs. But if I do move it, I’ll take the penalty. I’ve been surprised at how many strangers I’m paired up to play with will try to coax me out of taking a penalty in that situation, or try to convince me to move my ball out of a divot, etc. I just smile and say I’m practicing for when I need to make those shots in competition one day. I try not to be a golf lawyer, and I really couldn’t care less whether other people follow any or all of the rules so long as they’re courteous and quick. But I can’t bring myself to submit a score for handicapping if the round wasn’t played under the Rules. Doing so would just feel dishonest to me, and I have no desire to feel dishonest about something I do just for play. More importantly, my daughter will be old enough to start playing with me in a few years, and I want to set a good example. I now live on Long Island, recently retired (October 2002), and joined Cherry Creek Golf course. $2500.00 yearly fee, gets me $500.00 credit in pro shot and/or eatery and free golf Mon-Thurs anytime and Fri/Sat/Sun after 1 PM at two different courses. In November I got in 16 rounds. I love it!
Congratulations on the retirement. Sounds like a very good deal, particularly for Long Island. What town is that in? I’m always interested in new places to play. Jesse
Response:
Hi Jesse. I learned to play golf at Forest Park (if your talking about the one in Queens). I remember playing there and bringing a small hammer to put the tees in the ground. I know since American Golf took it over some time ago, it got much better, although I am not sure they can do anything about the leaves. If your asking the question ("Did I break 90?") then you have not convinced yourself that you have. I play within myself and have my own ‘rules’. For instance, I do not move my ball at all, unless there is danger of ruining my club. I will move it (for example) if it is sitting next to an imbedded rock that I cannot move, and I don’t charge myself with the stroke. Many people may not approve of it, but I play golf against myself only. When I break my "target" I am happy. My target number is not important to anyone but me. I now live on Long Island, recently retired (October 2002), and joined Cherry Creek Golf course. $2500.00 yearly fee, gets me $500.00 credit in pro shot and/or eatery and free golf Mon-Thurs anytime and Fri/Sat/Sun after 1 PM at two different courses. In November I got in 16 rounds. I love it! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Played as a single at Forest Park, a local muni, two saturdays ago and shot an 85, with a three-over-par 37 on the front nine. My previous best on this course was a 90. Course is par 70, 67.4/116 and approx. 5900 yds from the whites, 69.7/120/6100 yds from the blues. However, all three tee markers on about 10 of the holes were set in the red tee boxes, and tee boxes on two of the holes were 10 yds. further up the fairway than that. I played from the blue tees wherever they were set, and figure it played about 5600 yds total. Temperature wasn’t bad, about 48 deg., but the wind was whistling at about 10-15mph sustained, with 30mph gusts, giving a wind chill factor in the high 30s on the exposed holes. I’ll only describe the front nine in detail, because the back nine was just my usual mediocrity combined with one blowup hole for an ugly 48 (+12). But the front nine was just escalating joy. Started off with my usual (lately) double-bogey, bogey on the first and second, a pair of straightforward ~350 & ~300 yd par 4s to elevated greens. Parred the third, a par 3 that was only playing about 110 yds, with a nice chip from the fringe to 2ft. Also parred the fourth, a short par 5 that was only playing about 440yds, despite dribbling my second along the ground downhill for about 40 yds after a good drive to the crest of a hill. Sinking an uphill 12 footer sure helped me forget about it. Double bogied the fifth, a 375yd sharp dogleg right par 4 that narrows as it approaches the bowl shaped green. Impossible to cut the corner, and definitely the hardest hole on the front nine, so a 6 is pretty typical for me on that hole. I then stuck a 9 iron to 4 ft on the 115yd par 3 sixth, and sank the putt. A temp green plus tee boxes down by the reds shortened the 7th, a dogleg left par 4 that normally plays about 265, to a dead straight 220 yarder. The only challenge that keeps the hole from playing as a straightforward par 3 right now is the fact that the temp green is on a raised knoll about 6 yds by 7 yds, and way too bumpy to have any realistic hope of sinking a putt longer than 3 ft. So driving the green with a 3wd was still a pretty darn good shot if I do say so myself, and I cozied my 10 ft. "eagle" putt up to about 18" and sank the "birdie." My heart was now pounding, realizing that I was having a career best front 9, and had birdied two holes in a row for the first time in my life. Hit a low, pulled drive on the downhill, par 4 340yd eighth, but it skimmed the trees on the right, sliced back into the fairway, and just kept rolling toward the green. Missed the green with a 110yd pitching wedge, but chipped up to 4 ft and sank that putt too. Holy crap my hands were shaking, and I don’t think it was the cold. The par 3 ninth was also playing from the reds, about 140 yds slightly downhill, and a group on the green waved me up. I hit a 7 iron that did all sorts of funky things in the wind once it got above the tree line, and had about given up hope when it started to pachinko-ball its way through the bare-limbed tree fronting the left side of the green. But no, it kicked out right onto the fringe! I two-putted for yet another par, and ended the front nine with a 37 –THREE OVER PAR! Completely blew up on the long, uphill 420 yd twelfth when I lost a ball in the leaves, and wound up twelve over for the back nine, but went home very, very happy. What did I learn? Short game, short game, short game. I saved at least 6 strokes with good chipping and good lag putting. So, the question for the gallery is whether I should consider myself to have ever broken 90 or not. The score can’t be posted for handicap purposes, and it was playing nowhere near the "regulation" sized course. But damn, playing par golf for 7 holes isn’t a bad run under any circumstances, is it?
Response:
<Snipped how you did it So, the question for the gallery is whether I should consider myself to have ever broken 90 or not.
Yes, consider it rub of the green in a friendly way. Now you know you can manage your game and score better, a few yards on a few holes will probably not make much of a difference in your score. Look for the next time you play to be another good round. Confidence is a good thing. tim
Response:
So, the question for the gallery is whether I should consider myself to have ever broken 90 or not. The score can’t be posted for handicap purposes…
Why not? That’s the way the course was set up. Unless there’s something you haven’t said, it counts. When the course is set up hard, you suffer, and when easy, you take advantage. Make hay while the sun shines. Personally, I "don’t count" scores much when playing a course that isn’t at least 6,000 yards, but that’s exactly that – just personal – not any official reason – just challenging myself.
Response:
Played as a single at Forest Park, a local muni, two saturdays ago and shot an 85, with a three-over-par 37 on the front nine. My previous best on this course was a 90. Course is par 70, 67.4/116 and approx. 5900 yds from the whites, 69.7/120/6100 yds from the blues. However, all three tee markers on about 10 of the holes were set in the red tee boxes, and tee boxes on two of the holes were 10 yds. further up the fairway than that. I played from the blue tees wherever they were set, and figure it played about 5600 yds total. Temperature wasn’t bad, about 48 deg., but the wind was whistling at about 10-15mph sustained, with 30mph gusts, giving a wind chill factor in the high 30s on the exposed holes.
Good post. Congrats. Man, that is fun! A good score, especially with the wind you had. Next challenge……two good nine scores in the same round! I still haven’t been able to do it, but I’ve had fun trying. — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Played as a single at Forest Park, a local muni, two saturdays ago and shot an 85, with a three-over-par 37 on the front nine. My previous best on this course was a 90. Course is par 70, 67.4/116 and approx. 5900 yds from the whites, 69.7/120/6100 yds from the blues. However, all three tee markers on about 10 of the holes were set in the red tee boxes, and tee boxes on two of the holes were 10 yds. further up the fairway than that. I played from the blue tees wherever they were set, and figure it played about 5600 yds total. Temperature wasn’t bad, about 48 deg., but the wind was whistling at about 10-15mph sustained, with 30mph gusts, giving a wind chill factor in the high 30s on the exposed holes. So, the question for the gallery is whether I should consider myself to have ever broken 90 or not. The score can’t be posted for handicap purposes, and it was playing nowhere near the "regulation" sized course. But damn, playing par golf for 7 holes isn’t a bad run under any circumstances, is it?
Great playing. You certainly broke ninety, maybe with an asterisk. I mean, if you had limped in with an 89 on a shortened course that might seem less exciting but you didn’t just break 90, you busted it. At any rate, an 85 under those conditions (temp greens, wind, cold) has to be the best 18 holes you’ve ever played, right? Good on you. Brent Hutto
Response:
Played as a single at Forest Park, a local muni, two saturdays ago and shot an 85, with a three-over-par 37 on the front nine. My previous best on this course was a 90. Course is par 70, 67.4/116 and approx. 5900 yds from the whites, 69.7/120/6100 yds from the blues. However, all three tee markers on about 10 of the holes were set in the red tee boxes, and tee boxes on two of the holes were 10 yds. further up the fairway than that. I played from the blue tees wherever they were set, and figure it played about 5600 yds total. Temperature wasn’t bad, about 48 deg., but the wind was whistling at about 10-15mph sustained, with 30mph gusts, giving a wind chill factor in the high 30s on the exposed holes. I’ll only describe the front nine in detail, because the back nine was just my usual mediocrity combined with one blowup hole for an ugly 48 (+12). But the front nine was just escalating joy. Started off with my usual (lately) double-bogey, bogey on the first and second, a pair of straightforward ~350 & ~300 yd par 4s to elevated greens. Parred the third, a par 3 that was only playing about 110 yds, with a nice chip from the fringe to 2ft. Also parred the fourth, a short par 5 that was only playing about 440yds, despite dribbling my second along the ground downhill for about 40 yds after a good drive to the crest of a hill. Sinking an uphill 12 footer sure helped me forget about it. Double bogied the fifth, a 375yd sharp dogleg right par 4 that narrows as it approaches the bowl shaped green. Impossible to cut the corner, and definitely the hardest hole on the front nine, so a 6 is pretty typical for me on that hole. I then stuck a 9 iron to 4 ft on the 115yd par 3 sixth, and sank the putt. A temp green plus tee boxes down by the reds shortened the 7th, a dogleg left par 4 that normally plays about 265, to a dead straight 220 yarder. The only challenge that keeps the hole from playing as a straightforward par 3 right now is the fact that the temp green is on a raised knoll about 6 yds by 7 yds, and way too bumpy to have any realistic hope of sinking a putt longer than 3 ft. So driving the green with a 3wd was still a pretty darn good shot if I do say so myself, and I cozied my 10 ft. "eagle" putt up to about 18" and sank the "birdie." My heart was now pounding, realizing that I was having a career best front 9, and had birdied two holes in a row for the first time in my life. Hit a low, pulled drive on the downhill, par 4 340yd eighth, but it skimmed the trees on the right, sliced back into the fairway, and just kept rolling toward the green. Missed the green with a 110yd pitching wedge, but chipped up to 4 ft and sank that putt too. Holy crap my hands were shaking, and I don’t think it was the cold. The par 3 ninth was also playing from the reds, about 140 yds slightly downhill, and a group on the green waved me up. I hit a 7 iron that did all sorts of funky things in the wind once it got above the tree line, and had about given up hope when it started to pachinko-ball its way through the bare-limbed tree fronting the left side of the green. But no, it kicked out right onto the fringe! I two-putted for yet another par, and ended the front nine with a 37 –THREE OVER PAR! Completely blew up on the long, uphill 420 yd twelfth when I lost a ball in the leaves, and wound up twelve over for the back nine, but went home very, very happy. What did I learn? Short game, short game, short game. I saved at least 6 strokes with good chipping and good lag putting. So, the question for the gallery is whether I should consider myself to have ever broken 90 or not. The score can’t be posted for handicap purposes, and it was playing nowhere near the "regulation" sized course. But damn, playing par golf for 7 holes isn’t a bad run under any circumstances, is it?