Question:
I agree completely with the Pro Forged comments. I went from Pings to the Pro Forged also and feel that they are very close to being as forgiving as the Pings, not quite but close. They look much better however, and set up perfectly for me. I have just received my True Forged and I am looking forward to taking it a step further by going to a new blade that is supposed to be very forgiving as well as traditional. I’ll let you know how it works. Dan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a longtime player of Ping Eye 2’s, I thought I would share my thoughts on the Cast vs. Forged subject. Over 20 years, my sticks have gone from Staff’s to Muirfields to Pings and now Mizuno Pro Forged. Although I played, and loved, the Pings for about 5 years, I must say the setup, look, and feel of the Mizuno Pro Forged are unbelievable. This club has combined the look and feel of forged with the playability of cast. I would concur with many of the posts on this list that club head shape and characteristics are more important than the cast vs. forged process employed. Anyway, my experience with the Pro Forged tells me that the new technology built in these clubs allow for better players to play a forged "blade-like" club and not be disappointed. These irons are both aesthetically pleasing and a pleasure to strike. Brent
Response:
I must say the
setup, look, and feel of the Mizuno Pro Forged are unbelievable.<< Are they the MP-14’s or the MP-29’s? Thanks.
Response:
I must say the setup, look, and feel of the Mizuno Pro Forged are unbelievable.<< Are they the MP-14’s or the MP-29’s? Thanks.
Neither one, they are the Mizuno Pro Forged, the MP-14s and MP-29s are there other forged irons. Brent
Response:
I must say I have the same sentiments for my Hogan Edge Forged irons. Although I have not seen the Mizuno forged, it sounds like a very similar setup. The playability of my clubs, along with the forgiveness, make it the simply the best sticks that I have ever hit. I have tried to play Pings before, various different styles, however, seem unable to get past the "look" of them. The Pings just look ugly to me. I have no doubt that they are wonderful clubs and the feel very nice when I have hit them, however, the look of them make my unable to change. As well as my love for the my Hogan Edge’s. Well said Brent! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a longtime player of Ping Eye 2’s, I thought I would share my thoughts on the Cast vs. Forged subject. Over 20 years, my sticks have gone from Staff’s to Muirfields to Pings and now Mizuno Pro Forged. Although I played, and loved, the Pings for about 5 years, I must say the setup, look, and feel of the Mizuno Pro Forged are unbelievable. This club has combined the look and feel of forged with the playability of cast. I would concur with many of the posts on this list that club head shape and characteristics are more important than the cast vs. forged process employed. Anyway, my experience with the Pro Forged tells me that the new technology built in these clubs allow for better players to play a forged "blade-like" club and not be disappointed. These irons are both aesthetically pleasing and a pleasure to strike. Brent
Response:
As a longtime player of Ping Eye 2’s, I thought I would share my thoughts on the Cast vs. Forged subject. Over 20 years, my sticks have gone from Staff’s to Muirfields to Pings and now Mizuno Pro Forged. Although I played, and loved, the Pings for about 5 years, I must say the setup, look, and feel of the Mizuno Pro Forged are unbelievable. This club has combined the look and feel of forged with the playability of cast. I would concur with many of the posts on this list that club head shape and characteristics are more important than the cast vs. forged process employed. Anyway, my experience with the Pro Forged tells me that the new technology built in these clubs allow for better players to play a forged "blade-like" club and not be disappointed. These irons are both aesthetically pleasing and a pleasure to strike. Brent
Response:
DLN – yes, i used the slip-on version. The built-in underlisting is already part of the slip-on grip. The slip-on is installed just like a regular grip. If you want to build-up the grip size, wrap several layers of grip tape on the butt-end of the shaft. Yes, you need to use one layer of grip tape on the shaft before you slip-on the Winn grip. Like i stated previously, i’ve had the Winn Grips on Stratus shafts for at least 6 or 7 months. I’m getting ready to re-grip a couple of the wedges, because they get alot of wear and abuse. I’m going to use the Winn replacement grip-wrap: 1) take off the old used grip-wrap, 2) leave on the underlisting, 3) peel the self-adhesive backing off the new grip-wrap, 4) install on the underlisting, 5) apply the finishing tape at the bottom of the grip. That’s it, you’re done. It can even be done on the course while you’re playing. If you want more info, call Winn Grips at 1-800-854-7676. Dr. C
Response:
David, I’d like to hear more of your comments after you the Stratus shafts in the whole set….. Also I used Winn Wrips – the tan color… Dr. C
Dr. C I have been considering reshafting my irons and would also like to here more on his results. Also, I really like the Winn Wrap on a driver I built with a .865 butt shaft. The Stratus are of course .600 dia so I assume you used the Slip-on version of the Winn Wrap. I understand that comes with "built-in" underlisting to produce a normal size. My question is how is this installed? Do you add build-up tape to the shaft prior to installing the underlisting if you want to make the grip larger? Must you use grip tape with the underlisting as with a normal grip? Is the wrap already installed on the underlisting or are they installed separately using the self adhesive wrap? How much build-up can be done before the grip cap won’t fit? Anyone out there have more info on the slip-on version of these grips?
Response:
Feedback… BINGO!! The Plus Blades give little feedback. But, is it the blade or is it the DG S300 ? Based on "feedback" from Mizuno MP14s with DG S300, it smacks of the head. — John… To reply, remove the ‘*’ in reply-to address. Sorry, email spammers bother me… :
: : I have heard a lot of people mention that forged clubs were : better cast clubs. As an engineer, I find this hard to believe. Unless : there were some residual stresses and strains left in the forged irons, : the material properties would be the same for both the cast and forged : irons assumin the same tolerances. : A professor that I know recently conducted a little test to : determine if there was any difference in feel. He had a local golf pro : use a set of forged and a set of cast clubs. The golf pro couldn’t : determine any real difference, but I believe he choose the cast clubs. : I would really appreciate any comments on this issue. : : Well, folks, here we go. The results of the New Shaft Shootoff With : Cast Versus Forged Thrown In For Good Measure! : : There is also a mention of the effect of grip size on feel. I’ve never : seen this discussed, so, here goes… : : ** Disclaimer: : : This article is about my experiences with feel. Feel is a personal : thing, and this about _my_ feel. Therefore, your own experiences may : vary. : : : Something has raised it’s head since those couple of days on the : range. : : I was down there today having a couple of swipes with the Plus 1 and 2 : irons for reasons I won’t get into here. Anyway, something occurred : to me. We dragged a Ram out. : : The Ram _sounds_ different. It comes off the face with a real "crack". : The Pluses come off with a solid thunk- not as crisp sounding as the : Ram. : : Since the Rifle is out of the Plus 7 iron, we couldn’t go back and see : (hear?<G) if it was a shaft or head thing. : : Perhaps that is where the difference is? Perhaps it’s not "feel" but : "feedback"? : : Comments? : : Ciao! : : David. : : David McAuliffe, | My views are not shared : Acronym Computing Development | by my employer- :
Response:
I have heard a lot of people mention that forged clubs were better cast clubs. As an engineer, I find this hard to believe. Unless there were some residual stresses and strains left in the forged irons, the material properties would be the same for both the cast and forged irons assumin the same tolerances. A professor that I know recently conducted a little test to determine if there was any difference in feel. He had a local golf pro use a set of forged and a set of cast clubs. The golf pro couldn’t determine any real difference, but I believe he choose the cast clubs. I would really appreciate any comments on this issue.
Well, folks, here we go. The results of the New Shaft Shootoff With Cast Versus Forged Thrown In For Good Measure! There is also a mention of the effect of grip size on feel. I’ve never seen this discussed, so, here goes… ** Disclaimer: This article is about my experiences with feel. Feel is a personal thing, and this about _my_ feel. Therefore, your own experiences may vary. ** Background: I have been using a set of Ram Tour Grinds ("Rams") since the very early 80s. Over the years they have been reshafted a few times (as the shafts tended to bend in the hosel- I am not kidding). They have, however, recently started to show their age. Nice big pose marks on the face (where the chrome has worn off on the sweet spot), and nothing left on the leading edges. They had Rifle 6.5s in them, and Tour Wrap grips. After a bit of research, and finding nothing that I really liked, it was decided to take a gamble, order a set of the current Dynacraft Plus blades (sight unseen) and muck around with them ("Pluses") ** The tested equipment: The Person Who Laughs At My Swing took the 5, 6 and 7 irons from the Pluses, and assembled them with: 5: Dynamic Gold 6: Dynamic Gold Sensicore ("DGS") 7: Rifle There was also a wildcard: we had also received a Stratus Sensicore to try as well. The first shaft eliminated would receive the Stratus. We chose not to install it in a 4 or 8 because we’d start moving too far from the baseline. Each was adorned with an Infinity grip- a local version of the Tour Wrap. We also had a Retco (local brand) cast blade 5 iron with a Dynamic Gold in it lying around and had a fiddle with that as well. And with this, time for my comments: ** Test Conditions: Into a slight breeze. 18-20 degrees C, sunny, good mood, over two days. ** The heads: The Pluses are a nice looking head. I prefer a round toed blade, and they fitted the bill nicely. I would prefer to have the top line shaved a touch thinner (are you hearing me, Dynacraft?<G). They are a bit longer in the toes than the Rams, and also a touch shallower. I don’t mind the head at all. They aren’t too radical a departure from the Rams to my eyes. They are also more upright than the Rams, which is good for me because I tend to crouch to much. Apparently, I didn’t do it at all with these new lie angles. They felt more comfortable. The Pluses also look about half a club stronger. They have weighed, lofted and lied to about what was promised. ** Cast vs forged: I took both 7-irons, and, in conclusion, I am not convinced that there was any difference in the feel. That is as simple as I can put it. The heads are not identical in design, and the Rifles do absorb some of the vibration, but maybe I have insensitive fingers that really couldn’t tell. Perhaps I should be blindfolded and I’ll try again, but… However, it was interesting when we tried the Retco blade. It is a squarer, shallower blade with more weight near the toe, and a sort of small scallop from the back near the heel, like the old Wilson Staffs. A very different look to the blade. Comparing this club and other 5-irons – the Plus and the Retco with Dynamic Golds – led to a very interesting conclusion. Firstly, the Gold is "harsher" than a Rifle. I wasn’t wrapped in that "raw" a feel. perhaps I’ve played Rifles too long… But it took me only a few strikes with the Retco to reach a startling conclusion. The expression I used was that it was (sorry ’bout the quote folks, but) "like hitting a piece of dried up dog shit." It felt awful. There was nothing in it. I literally threw it to Jimmy, and that was the last time I looked at it. Is there a difference in the feel between Cast vs forged? No, I’d say it’s mass distribution or balance through the head. If forging does give a different distribution, then that may account for it. I leave that for more educated minds than mine. ** The Shafts: The "vanilla" Dynamic Golds were eliminated first. As mentioned above, perhaps I’m getting old, or have become too accustomed to the Rifles, but I couldn’t get used to the rawness of the feel. Still a good shaft, but not my cup of tea. Having hit a lot of shots over the years with Rifles, I spent a lot of time hitting the DGS. Yes, there is still feel there. There is more cushioning than the Rifle, but it is more, I dunno, filtered or subtle, or less obvious. It was, however, a nice shaft, and seemed to still be a Dynamic Gold in performance. The Rifle was familiar (obviously), but… I don’t know… Having strayed from her side, the Rifle didn’t seem as attractive as she used to be… Meanwhile, the vanilla Dynamic Gold had become a Stratus that had been tipped a little extra. There was a difference in feel to the DGS, but it was in the shaft performance, not the amount transmitted back to the golfer. There were different shot characteristics with it. I should note that it took a few shots to come to terms with the feedback from the different shafts. I needed to adjust my "parameters" to analyse the different feels. ** The effect of grip size on feel: The Rams had two papers under the grips. When I practiced more, I had a fairly strong swing on the olden days, and had the slightly thicker grips to help fight a hard draw. Initially, the Plusses were given the same thickness. I agreed, as an experiment to have a quick regrip and drop back to one paper. Interestingly enough, this noticeably increased feel. I guess it was because I now had more finger on the club. It was definitely there, and countered some of the Sensicores’ filtering. However, the grip didn’t feel totally right, so there was another quick regrip with two papers under the right hand, but only one under the left. This may have reduced feel a little bit, I’m not sure, but overall it felt good, and was effective. ** The decision After much pondering, the Rifle was the first eliminated. Perhaps I had become jaded with them, but I didn’t think they were as nice as I used to. So, after that, the shot dispersion pattern and trajectory were compared (remember, this was into the wind, to there’s no argument which way it was all going), and the decision was made to shaft and grip with, to my great surprise… <fx: drunmroll… ** Stratus Sensicores with one paper, and an extra paper under the right hand ** I though the Stratus were supposed to help people get it in the air, but my swing must suit the loading of the shaft. They’ve got that nice bore-soar trajectory, and seemed to all watching that they were more consistent in my hands. That they are a lighter club as well probably kicked in too. Oh, a quick back-to-back showed I was getting at least an extra club out of this spec Plus. I put this down to the Pluses being a bit stronger, the Stratus a bit lighter, and a better hand action because of the different grip size. So, in the next week or so, a new set of Dynacraft Plus 1-PW, and maybe SW, with Status with extra tipping shall find their way into my bag. I shall keep you all informed whether we did the right thing, if that’s what you want. Ciao! David. David McAuliffe, | My views are not shared Acronym Computing Development | by my employer-
Response:
David, I’d like to hear more of your comments after you the Stratus shafts in the whole set. I replaced the Nicklaus graphite shafts on my N1 Bears with Stratus shafts and I love the way they feel. Also I used Winn Wrips – the tan color. The combination of the green label for the Stratus/sensicore shaft and the tan wrip looks perrty good. Dr. C
Response:
David, I’d like to hear more of your comments after you the Stratus shafts in the whole set. I replaced the Nicklaus graphite shafts on my N1 Bears with Stratus shafts and I love the way they feel. Also I used Winn Wrips – the tan color. The combination of the green label for the Stratus/sensicore shaft and the tan wrip looks perrty good. Dr. C
The new (whole) set should be on the range this weekend. I haven’t had a new set for 15 or so years. This could be scarey! Hope for an update soon. From further back in the thread: Re: DG S300 vs DGS S300 in Plus head: I had a quick 18 with a borrowed set of Tour Grinds with DG S100s this morning, (the old gear sleeping over with the new gear whilst the surgery takes place) and they didn’t seem anywhere near as harsh as I remembered the Pluses to be. I think the observation that the Plus head is comparatively a little "raw" when it comes to the feedback is correct. Ciao! David. David McAuliffe, | My views are not shared Acronym Computing Development | by my employer-
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard a lot of people mention that forged clubs were better cast clubs. As an engineer, I find this hard to believe. Unless there were some residual stresses and strains left in the forged irons, the material properties would be the same for both the cast and forged irons assumin the same tolerances. A professor that I know recently conducted a little test to determine if there was any difference in feel. He had a local golf pro use a set of forged and a set of cast clubs. The golf pro couldn’t determine any real difference, but I believe he choose the cast clubs. I would really appreciate any comments on this issue. Well, folks, here we go. The results of the New Shaft Shootoff With Cast Versus Forged Thrown In For Good Measure! There is also a mention of the effect of grip size on feel. I’ve never seen this discussed, so, here goes… ** Disclaimer: This article is about my experiences with feel. Feel is a personal thing, and this about _my_ feel. Therefore, your own experiences may vary.
Something has raised it’s head since those couple of days on the range. I was down there today having a couple of swipes with the Plus 1 and 2 irons for reasons I won’t get into here. Anyway, something occurred to me. We dragged a Ram out. The Ram _sounds_ different. It comes off the face with a real "crack". The Pluses come off with a solid thunk- not as crisp sounding as the Ram. Since the Rifle is out of the Plus 7 iron, we couldn’t go back and see (hear?<G) if it was a shaft or head thing. Perhaps that is where the difference is? Perhaps it’s not "feel" but "feedback"? Comments? Ciao! David. David McAuliffe, | My views are not shared Acronym Computing Development | by my employer-
Response:
Well, since I am the one who dissed the Pluses, let me add that mine have DG S300s. Maybe it’s the shaft head combo, because in the MP14s were DG S300s. Maybe I’ll try again with a different shaft… — John… To reply, remove the ‘*’ in reply-to address. Sorry, email spammers bother me…
: : I have heard a lot of people mention that forged clubs were : better cast clubs. As an engineer, I find this hard to believe. Unless : there were some residual stresses and strains left in the forged irons, : the material properties would be the same for both the cast and forged : irons assumin the same tolerances. : A professor that I know recently conducted a little test to : determine if there was any difference in feel. He had a local golf pro : use a set of forged and a set of cast clubs. The golf pro couldn’t : determine any real difference, but I believe he choose the cast clubs. : I would really appreciate any comments on this issue. : : Well, folks, here we go. The results of the New Shaft Shootoff With : Cast Versus Forged Thrown In For Good Measure! : : There is also a mention of the effect of grip size on feel. I’ve never : seen this discussed, so, here goes… : : ** Disclaimer: : : This article is about my experiences with feel. Feel is a personal : thing, and this about _my_ feel. Therefore, your own experiences may : vary. : : ** Background: : : I have been using a set of Ram Tour Grinds ("Rams") since the very : early 80s. Over the years they have been reshafted a few times (as the : shafts tended to bend in the hosel- I am not kidding). : : They have, however, recently started to show their age. Nice big pose : marks on the face (where the chrome has worn off on the sweet spot), : and nothing left on the leading edges. They had Rifle 6.5s in them, : and Tour Wrap grips. : : After a bit of research, and finding nothing that I really liked, it : was decided to take a gamble, order a set of the current Dynacraft : Plus blades (sight unseen) and muck around with them ("Pluses") : : ** The tested equipment: : : The Person Who Laughs At My Swing took the 5, 6 and 7 irons from the : Pluses, and assembled them with: : : 5: Dynamic Gold : 6: Dynamic Gold Sensicore ("DGS") : 7: Rifle : : There was also a wildcard: we had also received a Stratus Sensicore to : try as well. The first shaft eliminated would receive the Stratus. We : chose not to install it in a 4 or 8 because we’d start moving too far : from the baseline. : : Each was adorned with an Infinity grip- a local version of the Tour : Wrap. : : We also had a Retco (local brand) cast blade 5 iron with a Dynamic : Gold in it lying around and had a fiddle with that as well. : : And with this, time for my comments: : : ** Test Conditions: : : Into a slight breeze. 18-20 degrees C, sunny, good mood, over two : days. : : ** The heads: : : The Pluses are a nice looking head. I prefer a round toed blade, and : they fitted the bill nicely. I would prefer to have the top line : shaved a touch thinner (are you hearing me, Dynacraft?<G). They are a : bit longer in the toes than the Rams, and also a touch shallower. I : don’t mind the head at all. They aren’t too radical a departure from : the Rams to my eyes. : : They are also more upright than the Rams, which is good for me because : I tend to crouch to much. Apparently, I didn’t do it at all with these : new lie angles. They felt more comfortable. : : The Pluses also look about half a club stronger. They have weighed, : lofted and lied to about what was promised. : : ** Cast vs forged: : : I took both 7-irons, and, in conclusion, I am not convinced that there : was any difference in the feel. That is as simple as I can put it. The : heads are not identical in design, and the Rifles do absorb some of : the vibration, but maybe I have insensitive fingers that really : couldn’t tell. Perhaps I should be blindfolded and I’ll try again, : but… : : However, it was interesting when we tried the Retco blade. It is a : squarer, shallower blade with more weight near the toe, and a sort of : small scallop from the back near the heel, like the old Wilson Staffs. : A very different look to the blade. : : Comparing this club and other 5-irons – the Plus and the Retco with : Dynamic Golds – led to a very interesting conclusion. Firstly, the : Gold is "harsher" than a Rifle. I wasn’t wrapped in that "raw" a feel. : perhaps I’ve played Rifles too long… But it took me only a few : strikes with the Retco to reach a startling conclusion. The expression : I used was that it was (sorry ’bout the quote folks, but) "like : hitting a piece of dried up dog shit." It felt awful. There was : nothing in it. I literally threw it to Jimmy, and that was the last : time I looked at it. : : Is there a difference in the feel between Cast vs forged? No, I’d say : it’s mass distribution or balance through the head. If forging does : give a different distribution, then that may account for it. I leave : that for more educated minds than mine. : : ** The Shafts: : : The "vanilla" Dynamic Golds were eliminated first. As mentioned above, : perhaps I’m getting old, or have become too accustomed to the Rifles, : but I couldn’t get used to the rawness of the feel. Still a good : shaft, but not my cup of tea. : : Having hit a lot of shots over the years with Rifles, I spent a lot of : time hitting the DGS. Yes, there is still feel there. There is more : cushioning than the Rifle, but it is more, I dunno, filtered or : subtle, or less obvious. It was, however, a nice shaft, and seemed to : still be a Dynamic Gold in performance. : : The Rifle was familiar (obviously), but… I don’t know… Having : strayed from her side, the Rifle didn’t seem as attractive as she used : to be… : : Meanwhile, the vanilla Dynamic Gold had become a Stratus that had been : tipped a little extra. There was a difference in feel to the DGS, but : it was in the shaft performance, not the amount transmitted back to : the golfer. There were different shot characteristics with it. : : I should note that it took a few shots to come to terms with the : feedback from the different shafts. I needed to adjust my "parameters" : to analyse the different feels. : : ** The effect of grip size on feel: : : The Rams had two papers under the grips. When I practiced more, I had : a fairly strong swing on the olden days, and had the slightly thicker : grips to help fight a hard draw. : : Initially, the Plusses were given the same thickness. I agreed, as an : experiment to have a quick regrip and drop back to one paper. : : Interestingly enough, this noticeably increased feel. I guess it was : because I now had more finger on the club. It was definitely there, : and countered some of the Sensicores’ filtering. : : However, the grip didn’t feel totally right, so there was another : quick regrip with two papers under the right hand, but only one under : the left. This may have reduced feel a little bit, I’m not sure, but : overall it felt good, and was effective. : : ** The decision : : After much pondering, the Rifle was the first eliminated. Perhaps I : had become jaded with them, but I didn’t think they were as nice as I : used to. : : So, after that, the shot dispersion pattern and trajectory were : compared (remember, this was into the wind, to there’s no argument : which way it was all going), and the decision was made to shaft and : grip with, to my great surprise… <fx: drunmroll… : : ** Stratus Sensicores with one paper, and an extra paper under the : right hand ** : : I though the Stratus were supposed to help people get it in the air, : but my swing must suit the loading of the shaft. They’ve got that nice : bore-soar trajectory, and seemed to all watching that they were more : consistent in my hands. That they are a lighter club as well probably : kicked in too. : : Oh, a quick back-to-back showed I was getting at least an extra club : out of this spec Plus. I put this down to the Pluses being a bit : stronger, the Stratus a bit lighter, and a better hand action because : of the different grip size. : : So, in the next week or so, a new set of Dynacraft Plus 1-PW, and : maybe SW, with Status with extra tipping shall find their way into my : bag. : : I shall keep you all informed whether we did the right thing, if : that’s what you want. : : Ciao! : : David. : : David McAuliffe, | My views are not shared : Acronym Computing Development | by my employer- :
Response:
..lots of BS deleted Is there a difference in the feel between Cast vs forged? No, I’d say it’s mass distribution or balance through the head. If forging does give a different distribution, then that may account for it. I leave that for more educated minds than mine.
..much more BS deleted uhhnn.. a response would be irrelevant.. Thanks, Rick To get random signatures put text files into a folder called