Question:
The general consensus is that a great majority of poor swings are rooted in a reverse pivot and early release. I believe a majority of golfers reverse-pivot…
I know I do! I have heard lots of reasons why. My reason is because I used to sway and now I don’t like to shift my weight back because of that. Also, I think there is a certain security in tilting in the takeaway instead of turning. When you turn, you sort of lose contact with the ball. I don’t think much about late/early release though. That is only # 8 on my list. I fight a reverse pivot and late release and have been working on it for about 3 years with mixed results. What I’ve been working on lately is (1) trying to add some more wrist cock action on the backswing (this allows my backswing to finish) and to (2) slow my arm speed down and swing easy on the downswing…
I have been fighting reverse pivot, and trying to manage weight shift in general, with the swing thought "right heel, left heel." If, at the top of my backswing I sense that I am not obeying, I bring the club back down and think and try again. Having just sensed what NOT to do, I have a pretty good success rate. Puttster
Response:
Great post Colin! Can you be more specific on what you worked on to facilitate an earlier release?
Let me stress again that this is not what everyone needs. It’s what *I* needed. For someone who is releasing too early it would probably be the opposite. The pro showed me how my hands should work. What I sensed with my change, and the correct downswing, was that it felt like the clubface was squaring about a foot or more before the ball. Of course this wasn’t actually the case, it just "feels" that way. This was the visualisation I’m working on (if you can combine a feeling and a visualisation together!). There’s nothing specific. It’s combined with getting a better position at the top. It just feels like my wrists are uncocking earlier. My hands also feel wider, like they’re moving a little away from my body in the downswing, as I come into the ball, when all along I’ve been trying to get them in closer. Again this is based on my ill-informed concept of release. The idea of releasing too late coincides in my case with the classic "trapped" scenario. The hands get into the wrong position at the top, or the rotation is insufficient, or the club is laid off at the top, and you’re fighting every step of the way to recover. So you manage everything from a pull to a push-fade … all over the ship. It’s just that average golfers in my position see the sort of images, typified by pictures of Sergio and Tiger, gaining that incredible angle between hands/arms and shaft as they come down into the ball before releasing. Combine that with all the talk here of "pulling down on the butt", or allowing the "hands to drop" as the first move, and you sometimes have a recipe for disaster … because it describes images that are not necessarily what suits a particular swing problem. Life and human experience is like a pendulum. People will always exaggerate change, causing the pendulum to swing over to an almost opposite point of view. Once it was the ills of communism, now it’s the ills of unbridled market forces and self-interest. Once it was laissez-faire hippydom, now it’s shallow materialism. What I have learnt is to duck as it swings, and try to maintain your sensible position in the middle. The same happens in learning the golf swing. To learn a change, you often have to exaggerate it. But sooner or later you will exaggerate the change too much, and over do it. The pendulum swings to the opposite point. Have you ever had a practice session where you’ve been hitting balls beautifully, longer and longer, then all of a sudden you hit a bad one, then you hit several more bad ones. You’ve probably over-exaggerated. I fight a reverse pivot and late release and have been working on it for about 3 years with mixed results. What I’ve been working on lately is (1) trying to add some more wrist cock action on the backswing (this allows my backswing to finish) and to (2) slow my arm speed down and swing easy on the downswing–allowing the clubhead to release. I’ve also been working on my pivot motion in the backswing….this results in a flatter swing plane and increased shoulder turn.
One feeling I have with my lesson is that my head is moving backwards about a foot. It doesn’t actually move more than a few inches when you look at a video, but it *feels* like it’s a lot more. My concept of rotation was a poor one too, no doubt accentuated by reading too much about concepts like the rotating around an imaginary rod down your spine, or swinging in a barrel. To me it just shows that trying to fix your swing by discussing it or reading tips, or people’s theories or advice, is pointless. My only answer to any swing problem here would be "go and see a good teaching pro … you can’t learn a complex skill by talking, reading about it or watching a video. Feedback is the most important aspect of learning the swing". Are a late release and over-the-top related. (Dependent or independent on one another?)
I think there is often a link, but they are really two separate problems. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
Good job, Colin. Though I’ve never heard anyone release too *late* before.
I think the late release is caused by (1) hands/arms tension the downswing coupled with an (2) over-the-top move. This makes the upper torso release the club and get ahead of it. When the club is released properly, the upper body and head stay behind the ball as a ballast to facilitate the hand action. On a basic level, IMHO, this is what Tiger refers to when he says he gets the "club stuck behind". He obviously has the strength, coordination, awareness, feel, reflexes, etc. to correct most shots with hand action. His late release is on a completely different level than that of the common golfer, but I believe it’s still related. Especially when you hear of the things that Tiger says he is working on in his game. "I want to drop my arms as fast as possible from the top." "My hips move too fast." "I want my arms to stay in front of me." My girlfriend always likes a late release though. 
Uh oh, another golf and sex similarity! — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
Response:
One was an incorrect position at the top. To achieve the correct position, he gave me a drill where I practice swing, while at the same time moving my left foot over and across in front of my right foot. When I then move my left foot back to where it was, the position I achieve is the right position at the top. This position felt much more "to the right" and higher in the hands than I’m used to.
Tried this, and fell over!! Sounds like the ‘Trentham Two Step’ to me!! I can’t be doing it properly! He showed me a better action in the downswing, where I get the feeling of releasing into impact, rather than at impact.
Can you desribe this ‘better action’? Very interesting Colin….who is the teaching pro, and where is he?? cheers david
Response:
Colin, your right on the money with this post. The biggest thing I ever learned from a teaching pro, was to live within your self. Unless you have deep pockets, play your game. Any pro can take a slice and make it a fade, but to make it a draw, that takes time , money, and a lot of frustration. I’ll leave with the advice may father always gave me, "Play with the cards your delt". Taz
Good job, Colin. Though I’ve never heard anyone release too *late* before. My girlfriend always likes a late release though. Scott Btw, Taz, meters are roughly 10% farther than yards. i.e. a 100 m. is approx. 110 yards.
Response:
<<snip The second was an attempt, in order to avoid an out-to-in swing, to get too much hip and body turn through the ball, which was leading to a late release, and an open clubface. I was losing power because the clubhead wasn’t releasing until after impact. He showed me a better action in the downswing, where I get the feeling of releasing into impact, rather than at impact. Immediately this squared up the clubface. I gained about 20 metres on a good drive. There were a few early, wildly-directed shots as I got used to it, but a practice session saw some stability.
Great post Colin! Can you be more specific on what you worked on to facilitate an earlier release? I think this affects more people then the magazines, standard instruction, etc. lead on. The general consensus is that a great majority of poor swings are rooted in a reverse pivot and early release. I believe a majority of golfers reverse-pivot and get ahead of the ball at impact, resulting in this late release. Usually, a late release swing will have a steep angle of attack, low trajectory and many fat shots. An early release with result in thin shots or a high ball flight. I fight a reverse pivot and late release and have been working on it for about 3 years with mixed results. What I’ve been working on lately is (1) trying to add some more wrist cock action on the backswing (this allows my backswing to finish) and to (2) slow my arm speed down and swing easy on the downswing–allowing the clubhead to release. I’ve also been working on my pivot motion in the backswing….this results in a flatter swing plane and increased shoulder turn. The hard thing about the late release/over-the-top is that they can cause both left and right shots. You’ll know you’re releasing it properly when your left shots correct back to the right, and your right shots correct back to the left. Question for discussion: Are a late release and over-the-top related. (Dependent or independent on one another?) — Washington State University "That shot is impossible!…Jack Nicholson himself couldn’t make it!"– Homer Simpson
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On Wednesday I had my first lesson for a couple of years. I’ve signed up for a series of monthly lessons, into next year. My problem has been a reversion to cut-fades, with a slight over-the-top move. The pro I saw identified two main problems. One was an incorrect position at the top. To achieve the correct position, he gave me a drill where I practice swing, while at the same time moving my left foot over and across in front of my right foot. When I then move my left foot back to where it was, the position I achieve is the right position at the top. This position felt much more "to the right" and higher in the hands than I’m used to. The second was an attempt, in order to avoid an out-to-in swing, to get too much hip and body turn through the ball, which was leading to a late release, and an open clubface. I was losing power because the clubhead wasn’t releasing until after impact. He showed me a better action in the downswing, where I get the feeling of releasing into impact, rather than at impact. Immediately this squared up the clubface. I gained about 20 metres on a good drive. There were a few early, wildly-directed shots as I got used to it, but a practice session saw some stability. Yesterday I played in my club competition. The greens had just been cored and sanded and were furry, bumpy and dead slow. Putting was difficult, especially scoring birdies. I’m lacking a driver at the moment, so I teed off with my 13-degree LCG 3-wood. I hit two shots 230 metres off the tee (slight tail wind), one dead straight, one with a slight fade. I’ve never hit a driver much better than that. I ended up scoring 39 Stableford points (77 off the stick), which was really pleasing because I’ve had lessons before and played like crap immediately afterwards as the thinking about the mechanics takes over. Perhaps as you get better, changes ingrain a little faster. Today I had another practice session, and the improved swing was really consolidating. I was again reaching 210-220 metres with a 3-wood. I get a new driver tonight, so it will be interesting. So don’t try to apply *everything* you read in r.s.g. about the swing without filtering. It *might not apply to you*. It might also confuse and lead you up blind alleys. Don’t necessarily try for a super-late release and heaps of hip and body turn through impact. It might actually be robbing you of distance and control. Most importantly, see a good teaching pro and get lessons if you can’t figure out what’s going wrong. I don’t know why I waited so long to go back. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Colin, your right on the money with this post. The biggest thing I ever learned from a teaching pro, was to live within your self. Unless you have deep pockets, play your game. Any pro can take a slice and make it a fade, but to make it a draw, that takes time , money, and a lot of frustration. I’ll leave with the advice may father always gave me, "Play with the cards your delt". Taz
Response:
On Wednesday I had my first lesson for a couple of years. I’ve signed up for a series of monthly lessons, into next year. My problem has been a reversion to cut-fades, with a slight over-the-top move. The pro I saw identified two main problems. One was an incorrect position at the top. To achieve the correct position, he gave me a drill where I practice swing, while at the same time moving my left foot over and across in front of my right foot. When I then move my left foot back to where it was, the position I achieve is the right position at the top. This position felt much more "to the right" and higher in the hands than I’m used to. The second was an attempt, in order to avoid an out-to-in swing, to get too much hip and body turn through the ball, which was leading to a late release, and an open clubface. I was losing power because the clubhead wasn’t releasing until after impact. He showed me a better action in the downswing, where I get the feeling of releasing into impact, rather than at impact. Immediately this squared up the clubface. I gained about 20 metres on a good drive. There were a few early, wildly-directed shots as I got used to it, but a practice session saw some stability. Yesterday I played in my club competition. The greens had just been cored and sanded and were furry, bumpy and dead slow. Putting was difficult, especially scoring birdies. I’m lacking a driver at the moment, so I teed off with my 13-degree LCG 3-wood. I hit two shots 230 metres off the tee (slight tail wind), one dead straight, one with a slight fade. I’ve never hit a driver much better than that. I ended up scoring 39 Stableford points (77 off the stick), which was really pleasing because I’ve had lessons before and played like crap immediately afterwards as the thinking about the mechanics takes over. Perhaps as you get better, changes ingrain a little faster. Today I had another practice session, and the improved swing was really consolidating. I was again reaching 210-220 metres with a 3-wood. I get a new driver tonight, so it will be interesting. So don’t try to apply *everything* you read in r.s.g. about the swing without filtering. It *might not apply to you*. It might also confuse and lead you up blind alleys. Don’t necessarily try for a super-late release and heaps of hip and body turn through impact. It might actually be robbing you of distance and control. Most importantly, see a good teaching pro and get lessons if you can’t figure out what’s going wrong. I don’t know why I waited so long to go back. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com