Question:
Dan, If I’ve asked you this before, please excuse me. You see, I’m a golfer and prone to beating my head on the nearest solid object. If I’m not mistaken, you play the Leyland Titan woods do you not? Can you give me your unabashed opinion of these woods? I am going to assemble a 44 inch steel shafted driver in an attempt to keep it in the short and straight. I want a 250cc(give or take 10cc) stainless steel head(15-5 preferable) and this is one of the options I’m considering. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you could provide on these heads. ChiliDipper
Response:
Hiya Chili, No problem, I have talked about the Leyland’s before, but I don’t think you have specifically asked prior to this. I currently have 2 of the driver heads, plus the 3 and 5 wood heads. All the heads are cast 15-5 stainless steel and the drivers displace 250cc. The 1st driver is 10.5* head on a 44 inch Prolite 35 stiff shaft. The 2nd is an 8* head on a 45" Harrison Pro 3.5 stiff shaft. I also have the 15* 3 wood and 21* 5 wood heads, both on Rifle Light 6.0 shafts. I really like the 10.5*. When I am swinging well I routinely expect to get 250 yards (assuming flat, no wind, etc.) and I occasionally blast one out to 280 yards. It seems to mate very well with the Prolite shaft, feedback is excellent and I have no problem telling where on the face I struck the ball. The trajectory is what I would call mid, say around 70 feet at the top of the arc (I am using the 90′ high net posts at my range as a reference). At 250cc the head is large enough to be moderately forgiving, but not so huge that you feel like you are swinging a watermelon on a stick. If you mishit it just a little you will know, but the punishment isn’t brutal. Well struck shots are nicely rewarded and feel good. But poor swings will result in some pretty poor results. This is not a "Hit it anywhere on the flat side and it will go straight" kind of club and definitely isn’t as forgiving as your BBB. You do have to at least get close to the sweetspot to get good results. The 8* is still a mystery to me. I built this club several months ago as an experiment but haven’t had time to really work with it on the range yet. I have hit a lot of really ugly shots with it, but I have also hit some beauties that bounced and rolled into the net at the back of my range, 300+ yards out. I wanted to try 2 things with this club, a low lofted head and the Harrison shaft. At this point I am inclined to say that the shaft doesn’t suit me, but I really haven’t had a chance to work with it enough to make a final decision. As summer progresses I hope to get it on the range more and possibly onto the course. Three things on the 3 and 5 woods. They are pretty easy to hit, they are accurate and they are short. The lack of length is particularly noticeable with the 5 wood. When I really hammer the 3 wood I can get up to 230 yards, but 210 is much more typical. The longest I have gotten out of the 5 wood is 200 and that was downhill, down wind. 185 yards is much more realistic. I don’t consider this acceptable for what are supposed to be distance clubs, I already have an iron I can hit 185, plus I can draw and fade the iron. I believe that the problem with the 3 and 5 wood have to do with the steel shafts. I went with the Rifle Light shafts in order to keep the total weight down around what a heavy graphite shaft might be, but they still don’t feel like they balance quite right. Even the 8* driver feels like it balances a lot better. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that the Leyland Titan heads should be matched with a good quality, lightweight graphite shaft. I intend to reshaft both the 3 and 5 wood with graphite, probably the Prolite, but I might trim the Harrison down and stick it into the 3 wood as an experiment. Given my own experience, I would recommend against using a steel shaft. The Rifle Light is a great shaft, I love it in my irons, but it just doesn’t feel good in these fairway woods. Also, 44 inches is a very long steel shaft, most builders recommend steel shafted drivers be kept to a maximum of 43". I love the Prolite in the driver, it feels good and has excellent feedback. If you decide to go with these heads I would recommend using the Prolite unless you have already tried it and didn’t like it. All in all, I think that as long as it is mated to the right shaft that the Titan heads are pretty good. But it isn’t as forgiving as some of the other clubs on the market, like the Ping ISI or the BBB. IMO it is a little bit more of a players head than a game improvement head. I hope this helps. Dan, If I’ve asked you this before, please excuse me. You see, I’m a golfer and prone to beating my head on the nearest solid object. If I’m not mistaken, you play the Leyland Titan woods do you not? Can you give me your unabashed opinion of these woods? I am going to assemble a 44 inch steel shafted driver in an attempt to keep it in the short and straight. I want a 250cc(give or take 10cc) stainless steel head(15-5 preferable) and this is one of the options I’m considering. I would greatly appreciate any feedback you could provide on these heads. ChiliDipper
– Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!
Response:
Hi Dan, Thanks for the reply. I tried your direct email from the RSG Roll Call, but it kept bouncing. I must not have the hang of the new version of Outlook yet. Have you tried the Leyland 2.5 shafts? Some clubmakers on ShopTalk speak very highly of them. They seem to be priced right also. I have decided to go back to steel – in spite of my hip/back – at least until I gain some semblence of a swing again. I am having a dickens(pardon my language!) of a time with accuracy when hitting my overlength, ultralight graphite shafted clubs. I’ve done the total weight and swingweight calculations for a 44" driver with the various heads I’m looking at, and, the Rifle shaft/Lamkin grip. Not out of line in my opinion. The D6 – D7 swingweight is the range I’m comfortable with anyway. My Taylor Made Tour Spoon is shafted with a TT Dynamic Gold Sensicore shaft at 43". It swingweights about D6.5, and, feels very good to me. If it wasn’t for that small little clubhead, I would hang on to it. When I do order, I’m going to have the components weight sorted to get as close as possible to the specs I want. My BBB is definitely forgiving as far as off-center hits. However, at 46", It’s a little too long for me to make consistent contact at the moment. I have tried to give it some time. I’ll probably shelve it until I feel I can hit it again. Also, it swingweights at just under D3. At that length, I just don’t like the feel of a club that swingweights this light. With my swing in the shape it is in at the moment, I may go with a head that is as forgiving as possible at that size. Though I haven’t hit this club, almost every clubmaker on ShopTalk I asked mentioned the Chicago Golf 966 Super Driver as one of, if not the, most forgiving SS head they have tried. It’s a few dollars more, but, if it is a more forgiving design, it would be worth a few dollars more. Incidentally, I did look at a few graphite shafts that were heavier, lower torque; with playing characteristics as similar to steel as I could find. I just couldn’t get to the swingweight I wanted without adding a lot of weight. I could ask for some weight sorting to get a heavier clubhead, and shaft than they spec; then, I wouldn’t have to add as much weight. I’m just still of the opinion that I need steel in my woods until I can get comfortable with my physical limitations, and, develop a swing that will work with them. I appreciate the information. Getting this information from someone who plays these clubheads regularly is a big help. Thanks very much. ChiliDipper
(very good, and, helpful information snipped)
Response:
Chili, Hi Dan, Thanks for the reply. I tried your direct email from the RSG Roll Call, but it kept bouncing. I must not have the hang of the new version of Outlook yet.
It wasn’t your end, it was/is mine. My e-mail server had a meltdown last week and still isn’t fully recovered. Have you tried the Leyland 2.5 shafts? Some clubmakers on ShopTalk speak very highly of them. They seem to be priced right also.
The original shaft in the 10.5* driver head was a 45" stiff Leyland 3.5. I think that shaft has since been discontinued in favor of the 2.8. The 3.5 wasn’t as stiff as advertised, I hooked everything and the ball flew a mile high. I am much happier with the Prolite. I have decided to go back to steel – in spite of my hip/back – at least until I gain some semblence of a swing again. I am having a dickens(pardon my language!) of a time with accuracy when hitting my overlength, ultralight graphite shafted clubs.
I am not a fan of ULW clubs except for those who need them. LW shafts in the 65-90 gram range is one thing, but a 50 gram driver shaft is getting ridiculous. Nor am I a fan of overlength shafts for high and mid handicap amateurs, particularly on drivers. Remember that my Prolite is 44.5 and I said I was going to cut down the Harrison. For beginners and high handicappers I think 43 or 43.5 inch LW or even regular graphite shafts are a pretty good idea. The lighter shaft will allow more clubhead speed and the head can be weighted at the heel to bring the SW up and also help reduce slicing. Plus graphite allows the designers move the kickpoint higher or lower than with a typical steel shaft. I’ve done the total weight and swingweight calculations for a 44" driver with the various heads I’m looking at, and, the Rifle shaft/Lamkin grip. Not out of line in my opinion. The D6 – D7 swingweight is the range I’m comfortable with anyway. My Taylor Made Tour Spoon is shafted with a TT Dynamic Gold Sensicore shaft at 43". It swingweights about D6.5, and, feels very good to me. If it wasn’t for that small little clubhead, I would hang on to it. When I do order, I’m going to have the components weight sorted to get as close as possible to the specs I want.
Obviously there are some benefits to going with a steel shafted driver. There’s this kid on tour who hits one pretty well, his name is Eldrick or something like that. 
My BBB is definitely forgiving as far as off-center hits. However, at 46", It’s a little too long for me to make consistent contact at the moment. I have tried to give it some time. I’ll probably shelve it until I feel I can hit it again. Also, it swingweights at just under D3. At that length, I just don’t like the feel of a club that swingweights this light.
Keep in mind that your BBB is about the most forgiving driver head available. But the reason it is so forgiving is that it is so big, 300-320 cc, isn’t it?. The face of that club is huge, much larger than most other driver heads, OEM or component. If you want to go with a SS head you are going to be limited to 250cc or less. For something as forgiving as the BBB you will need to go to titanium or to a composite/ceramic head. With my swing in the shape it is in at the moment, I may go with a head that is as forgiving as possible at that size.
Have you considered simply reshafting the BBB? If you are looking for a forgiving head, the one you already have is it. Though I haven’t hit this club, almost every clubmaker on ShopTalk I asked mentioned the Chicago Golf 966 Super Driver as one of, if not the, most forgiving SS head they have tried. It’s a few dollars more, but, if it is a more forgiving design, it would be worth a few dollars more.
The 966 is a great looking head and I to have heard good things about it. I wanted to buy one a couple of years ago, but they hadn’t started making them in LH at that time. FWIW, my impression of the 966 is that it is pretty similar to the Leyland Titan. The sole is a little different, and the scoring on the face isn’t the same, one is 17-4, the other is 15-5, but the basic shape, size and weight are the same. I suspect that they probably perform similarly, also. Incidentally, I did look at a few graphite shafts that were heavier, lower torque; with playing characteristics as similar to steel as I could find. I just couldn’t get to the swingweight I wanted without adding a lot of weight. I could ask for some weight sorting to get a heavier clubhead, and shaft than they spec; then, I wouldn’t have to add as much weight. I’m just still of the opinion that I need steel in my woods until I can get comfortable with my physical limitations, and, develop a swing that will work with them.
I have always been an advocate of steel shafts, with 2 exceptions, and you hit them both. 1 – Drivers: I have always favored graphite for drivers because of the lighter weight, or for better players, longer shaft lengths. 2 – Physical problems: When someone has a physical problem I have typically recommended graphite because it reduces shock and is lighter weight. I appreciate the information. Getting this information from someone who plays these clubheads regularly is a big help. Thanks very much.
No problem, I am glad I could help with the info. I hope everything works out and you get your swing back soon. ChiliDipper (very good, and, helpful information snipped)
– Dan Driscoll Current USGA Handicap Index – 14.7 RSG Roll Call http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/driscolld.htm Keep Usenet Clean, Trash a Spammer!