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: Not sure if you’re agreeing with me here, Mark, but I would say that if he has : *never* broken 80, I would assume he is playing on the more difficult of your : two hypothetical courses. Bad assumption…my numbers show you can never break 80 and still be a 10 on either course and given your theory on score variation, he’s more likely to finally break 80 on the easier course. : I agree that he would be more likely to actually *finally* break 80 on your : "easy" course, if that is the point you are making. Yes. Good Putting! (required to break 80) Mark — Mark Koenig, Technical Consulting || These views are my own. "Mondays, what a terrible way to spend 1/7th of your life"
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): – You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing. – The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. – Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
There is your problem Ed. "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" should be your mantra. I’ve been driving the ball terribly the past three times out, but have yet to shoot more than a 76… without putting, chipping, and a well placed sand wedge 85 would have been the average. My wedge game sucks btw. I can’t stick my wedges like I should and am considering playing the whole course with a PW and putter until I can maneuver that puppy like a pro. You are (half) right about GIR…. as that is a huge key. Hitting the green doesn’t guarantee good scoring especially on better courses. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
See above. Scott
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): What is the rating/slope of your course. Must be pretty easy it you are a 10 without breaking 80. I’m an 11.9, and have 5 scores in the 70’s from mid summer to now. I’ve shot 2 of those in the last week. I should get near 10 hcap when those are factored in (they will replace a couple 87’s from early summer). Just a little mathematical nit here, but his course must be pretty HARD (not easy) if he has a legit 10 handicap and has never broken 80.
Good Point! The CCR/CSS would have to come in at +2 to +5 most of the time for a string of scores in the eighties to result in a 10 handicap. Oscar
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: Just a little mathematical nit here, but his course must be pretty HARD (not : easy) if he has a legit 10 handicap and has never broken 80. Course rating = 71, slope 113…..shoots 81 all the time what’s the handicap? 10…right? Course rating = 74, slope 135…..shoots 86 all the time what’s the handicap? 10…right? Which course would be more likely that he breaks 80 if he’s a legit 10? The hard one? The easy one? Good Putting! Mark — Mark Koenig, Technical Consulting || These views are my own. "Mondays, what a terrible way to spend 1/7th of your life"
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: Just a little mathematical nit here, but his course must be pretty HARD (not : easy) if he has a legit 10 handicap and has never broken 80. Course rating = 71, slope 113…..shoots 81 all the time what’s the handicap? 10…right? Course rating = 74, slope 135…..shoots 86 all the time what’s the handicap? 10…right? Which course would be more likely that he breaks 80 if he’s a legit 10? The hard one? The easy one?
Not sure if you’re agreeing with me here, Mark, but I would say that if he has *never* broken 80, I would assume he is playing on the more difficult of your two hypothetical courses. One would assume that (given the usual variation in golf scores, and the fact that the handicap is calculated on your *best* rounds) on the easy course above, for the "average of the best 10 rounds" to be 81, at least one of them would be under 80. I agree that he would be more likely to actually *finally* break 80 on your "easy" course, if that is the point you are making. T.J. — T.J. Fields, Ph.D. Systems Architect, K-Mart Corporation
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): What is the rating/slope of your course. Must be pretty easy it you are a 10 without breaking 80. I’m an 11.9, and have 5 scores in the 70’s from mid summer to now. I’ve shot 2 of those in the last week. I should get near 10 hcap when those are factored in (they will replace a couple 87’s from early summer). Just a little mathematical nit here, but his course must be pretty HARD (not easy) if he has a legit 10 handicap and has never broken 80.
Just for the record: Indian Creek, Creek Course: 6620 yds., 71.3, 116 Indian Creek, Lakes Course: 6635 yds., 71.9, 120 Even though the Creek course looks easier on paper, most residents consider it the tougher of the two. And while I haven’t broken 80 yet, I have had two 80s and several other scores 85 and under to account for the 10 handicap (it’s kept at the course so it’s not an official USGA handicap). There’s lots of trees and water lining the fareways, so both courses will eat you up if you’re wild off the tee. Plus, I can’t reach any of the par 5s in two (too long, too many trees).
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
Agree completely. Those articles are for suckers. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par.
Disagree completely. I am a 4 handicap, and I look at every chip shot, bunker shot, short pitch as a birdie/eagle opporunity. For example: who has a better chance of birdie between these two golfers: A hits his second shot on the green but 40 feet away, B hits his second shot off the green but has a good lie on the fringe 10 feet from the pin. If I’m A I’ll take my par and go quiety, but if I’m B and I don’t sink that 10 foot chip I feel I let one get away. One’s attitude has a lot to do with how many strokes you save around the greens. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
Disagree enthusiastically. This to me is like saying, ‘Improve your putting? Bogus! Just hit each approach shot into the hole!’ Unless you think with a full-time job will be able to hit your irons more accurately than tour players, you WILL MISS GREENS. To hit 18 greens even once is amazing, to do that regularly is simply super-human. If your goal is to score a 79 or better, you want to give up 7 or fewer bogeys, right? Occasionlly, as a 10 handicap, you’ll waste a stroke or two off the tee. Most of the time, however, your bogeys will be short game errors, since you will be missing greens. Each chip shot is an opportunity to save par and escape giving up one of the bogeys. To prove this point, for a few rounds keep track of how many times a great shot from 75 yards in (this includes chips 5 feet off the green!) would have allowed to to save par, but because you missed it you then 2-putted. I bet you’ll find at least 5 or 6 strokes. The more you work on your short game, the more confident you get, the more pars you save, the more birdies you make on par 5s or that you chip on on par 4s. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
Your frustration reminds of when I was struggling to shoot a par round. It seemed I would never make it beyond a 73 or 74 on my best days, and the harder I tried to reach that next plateau, the more difficult it became. What made the difference for me turned out to be three things: I read Putt Like the Pros by Dave Pelz; I started working on my wedges (pitch shots from 75 yds and in, chips and bunker shots) more often than I banged balls at the range; and I accepted that I had no control over my final score, all I could control was my attitude. This change in attitude reduced the tension I felt, which meant better shots. I can now see that my bad shots of all types (drives, putts, etc) are almost always due to tension having crept in from some insidious thought or concern. Bad rounds are always due to allowing that tension to increase rather than escape. That’s a difficult lesson to learn, but a useful one. When I was around a 10 handicap, if I started off 4 or 5 over par after the first few holes, the rest of the round would be torture because that tension would increase to the point that I couldn’t hit a damn thing. A couple weeks ago I went double, bogey, double (yikes!), and was getting pretty pissed off, but I said, "Oh well, what’s the big deal? Faldo shot an 83 at the MCI, and he’s a little better than I am." I played the remaining holes 2 under, which was entirely due to attitude. You can’t play golf with your teeth clenched, and it sounds like your frustration has put a lot of knots in your rope. Just be patient, spend your practice time with your wedges, and try to relax for each shot. You can probably practice chipping in a hallway for 10 minutes before you go to work. Chip into a basket or something. Anything that promotes clean contact, ability to judge distance and loft, and hitting straight will save strokes. Whatever you do, don’t give up out of frustration. When you finally break 80, you’ll feel great…for about 10 minutes, when you’ll set your sight on par! Good luck!
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I disagree with your comments that the short game is not as important as it is made out to be. There’s a few things about the short game that I think are important. I’m a 17 handicap and have only played 2.5 years but I think my ideas make some sense. Some days, you’re just not going to have your perfect swing and you’re going to miss greens by the handfull. To score well on those days it’s important to have your short game working. It’s harder for your short game to completely disappear on a given day than it is for your full swing. Sure, some days the putts will all lip out but the mechanical changes in your stroke from one day to the next should be very minimal. More importantly, I’ve found that having one solid part of your game that you are sure of, really helps the rest of your game. For example, I used to be a poor putter from within 10 feet. Every time I was chipping I felt as if I had to get the ball really close to the hole for me to make the putt. My chipping was always terrible on the course though. I then dramatically improved my putting stroke and short putting (after reading Pelz’s "Putt like the Pros") and felt as if I could make almost everything from 6 feet and had a good shot at it from a little outside of that. Suddenly my chipping looked more like it did on the course as it did when I practiced and I was routinely left with tap-ins. All the pressure was lifted from my chipping since I knew I could fall back on my putting. What I’m trying to say is that if you’re confident that you can consistently get it up and down, you won’t have to focus on hitting every green or else face the bogey-man. You will then not only start to hit more greens, but also actually get up and down when you do miss the green. Good Luck! Vineet
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!):
I’m an 11 HCP (legit, like you) and I disagree. - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
You need to sift out the information that is relevant to YOUR game so that you avoid ‘paralysis by analysis’. I played well at the start of this season — I attribute that to watching the Golf Channel over the winter and working on my setup and alignment in my living room. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par.
It’s useful to know WHY you are missing the green also. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
But a great short game can save a lot of strokes. My putter rarely deserts me and it often turns bogeys into pars and doubles into bogeys. [and NOTHING takes the gas out of an opponent like getting up-and-down from the ball-washer] So, how do you get better ? a) identify your weakest area b) improve on your weakest area c) repeat (ad nauseum) — –dph. (preferred email: dhayes AT iname DOT com)
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I addressed the original poster’s points in a prior message but I’d just like to add something here. A very important step for high-handicappers and players that are new to the game is to learn what a good swing is. You can’t diagnose swing faults if you don’t understand what a swing should look (and feel) like. — –dph. (preferred email: dhayes AT iname DOT com)
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writes: I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): What is the rating/slope of your course. Must be pretty easy it you are a 10 without breaking 80. I’m an 11.9, and have 5 scores in the 70’s from mid summer to now. I’ve shot 2 of those in the last week. I should get near 10 hcap when those are factored in (they will replace a couple 87’s from early summer).
Just a little mathematical nit here, but his course must be pretty HARD (not easy) if he has a legit 10 handicap and has never broken 80. Illustration provided upon request. <g — T.J. Fields, Ph.D. Systems Architect, K-Mart Corporation
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting post. I would submit that being a 10 qualifies someone as being capable of shooting in the 70s (w/o it being a total fluke). Between 5-10 means that you should be in the mid to high 70s on a reasonable basis, but are prone to be in the 80s on an off day; it also means you are capable of shooting in the low 70s on a good day. Less than 5 means that you should never be in the 80s (much like you rarely expect to be in the 90s now), and are likely to be below 70 on a good day… The point is that you are definitely in that zone where a score in the 70s is feasible. I would submit, however, that doing so will likely *NOT* depend on optimizing any one performance factor such as GIR. Rather, I would suggest you analyze your course (presumably your home course) and develop a specific strategy. My index is presently 6.9, but I have played at near scratch golf back while competing at the collegiate level. I, too, am a one-twice/week player with one practice in between when time permits… but ironically, I’ve goaled myself to be a consistent 3-4 level player over the next 12 months— so relatively speaking, we are both on the same crusade. Here is what I am doing: 1) Get a coach— not a teacher, but a coach. Someone who you connect with, and who understands your goals— for me, this meant finding an individual who had successfully competed at a level beyond that which I had ever reached. Setup a *regular schedule*; if it’s once/month— fine. Once/week better. You make a good point about GIR, and that means consistent ball striking. For me, my coach is all about maintaining consistency. It is amazing what little gremlins creep into your swing w/o you ever detecting it— especially if you are not playing more than once/week. 2) Analyze your scores, and determine your patterns… sounds like you have already done this. I use the following statistics: Score/Hole Putts/Hole (both in GIR and total to factor out shortgame effects) GIR, Avg distance from pin Non Par 3 Fairways Hit Pitch Saves (< 100yds w/wrist break) Chip Saves (< 20 yds w/no wrist break) Sand Saves ( greenside only ) 3) Rather than focusing upon any one statistic, set of a target range for *ALL* statistics. For example, my club is a difficult and narrow course with large undulating greens typically rolling at 10+ on the stimp. In my case, GIR plays less of a role because several greens present multi-tier, double breaks… and in some cases, the ball will simply not roll to a rest if you are above the hole. My point is that statistics which influence score will tend to vary depending upon the course characteristics. This is something very easy to see on the Tour. For example, at Pebble Beach & Riveria, the greens are very small so GIR is very important (as seen in the US Senior Open). On other courses such as Augusta, the shortgame and putting are equally if not more important. For my own course, I target the following for each round: 5 GIR/nine 5 Fairways per nine 1 3 Putt/Round Limit (we have very difficult greens) 0 Double Bogeys 0 Penalty Strokes In addition, I chunk the round into 2-hole segments. Ever notice how you can get refreshed after the 9-hole turn? I try to reduce this cycle into 2-hole segments. Ironcially, this has probably saved more rounds than anything else! I find keeping concentration over 9 holes is difficult— 2 holes is much easier and then I just start over. Anyway, my input to this most interesting topic is that your dilema is exactly what makes this such an amazing game— it is the only game I know of which involves both left and right hemispheres, and as such, results (both positive and negative) are due to numerous factors working concurrently. Focusing on one thing will tend to create the ‘leaky boat effect’— fix one hole, and out comes another…! By creating a total game strategy (moderated to your time, financial, and emotional resources), you can setup reasonable goals for improvement. Getting to a 10 is a great accomplishment; regroup, and develop a total strategy and timeline— but most importanly, enjoy the journey… even if that is easier said than done! Best of luck! Adrian
For my money, put me with someone without an ego, who hits fairways (regardless of length) and understands that not every shot is perfect. Be creative, be yourself, and use the 6 inches between your ears. There is no way to beat 6800 yards all at once. Remember: " Golf can be taught, it just can’t be learned" Divot.
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
Agreed here. I don’t even read tips sections in magazines unless they are about short game or putting. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par.
I disagree somewhat on this point. I don’t know what my handicap is, but I break 80 quite often (all on par 70 and 71 courses). Although I do have days that I hit a lot of GIR, I can do quite well even when I don’t. Yesterday I shot a 76 on a par 70 (12 pars, birdie, three bogeys, two doubles) with only 5 GIR all day. Now several of those non-GIR were near misses, but that’s a lot of up and down. I also disagree that if you miss the green the best you can hope for is par. I’ve probably had about fifty birdies in my day and probably 10-15 of them have been chip-ins. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
I agree here to an extent. If you have a solid approach game you don’t need to be as proficient a chipper. But you must be a good putter. Usually when I get a GIR I have a pretty long putt for birdie, and obviously want to do no worse than a two-putt. Two-putting is hard from forty, fifty feet. So unless you can consistently stick your approach shots inside twenty feet or so you’d better spend a lot of time with the flat stick. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
I play twice a week at least and can get out three or four times a week during the summer. If I play four times a week, at least one time is usually as a single and therefore a "practice round". I’ll hit two balls a lot (although I record my first ball) and spend a lot of extra time around the green chipping and putting. The course I do this at is deserted most of the time so I don’t worry too much about holding people up. I rarely go to the driving range. I can play unlimited golf after 4:00 at one course nearby for $7. Large buckets at the driving range are $6. Obviously, I usually choose the course. The only time I go to the range is if it’s getting late (like after 6) and I want to go hit. I mostly practice my irons when I do go to the range, and usually hit a few driver shots just for kicks. I rarely use my driver on the golf course, so the range is a good place for me to use it. Before every round I play I spend about a half-hour on the putting green. Other than that, I really don’t practice much and never have. I improved greatly last summer by playing a lot (three times a week if not four or five). — Chris Fairchild Resident Director & Conservatory Faculty: Shenandoah University Video gamer Golfer Sports Card Collector
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says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. I disagree for reasons I’ll explain below. – Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. I really disagree with you here. Having spent a lot of time recently working on chipping, pitching and putting, I’ve realized what a lifesaver a good short game can be. While it’s true that you’re unlikely to make birdies on par 4s if you miss the green, good chipping/pitching will save par. If your definition of "good" is shooting in the 70s, then that’s what you have to do. Do it 18 times in a row and you’re a hero. Plus, on par 5s, a good short game will help you score. I would bet that at your level, if you’re not on the green in 2, you’re only +/- 60 yds out. Get down in 2 and voila, birdie.
True, true…and yes MY definition of good is shooting in the 70s. Par 5s at my home course at Indian Creek in Carrollton, TX. are a problem. They come in two flavors: narrow and tree lined, or flanked by water. Reaching any of them in two is almost out of the question for me, so I have to lay up and the safest place on all of them is about 100-125 yds. out. ’Course, I still miss the green now and then even from that distance so like most people I need to work on nearly all aspects of my game. Too bad I have things like work interfering…;-)
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my : cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course : (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): : : - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you : don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re : on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. : - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on : your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, : you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That : tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. : : ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! : What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most : people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice : a week to practice and get to play at most once/week. : A legit 10-handicap is a very good achievement. Few golfers ever get that : good. Unless you have time to devote to a high level of proactice and : playing time, then 10 may be what you live with and enjoy. I’m a legit 9.0 index, and most of the time I feel like a total hack. I play with lots of better players (1-6 hcap), and I’d like to think I can get that good someday. Here’s what I think it takes, based on watching these better players: - keep the ball in play. If a tee ball does find the trees (and it will occasionally), get out in a safe manner. - solid short game. Chips/pitches from easy spots and good lies must get close to the hole. - solid putting. Must take advantage of reasonable birdie putts and short saves for par. Cannot afford to 3 putt very often. - hit the greens from 160yds and closer most of the time. - hit the green almost every time from 100yds. - mental focus. Ignore the occasional double, and just get back to stringing pars together. Obviously every player has his own balance of strenghts and weaknesses. The more greens you miss, either because you’re short or wild off the tee or not very accurate with the irons, the better short game you must have. I shot 79 this year hitting 5 GIR, and I also shot 81 hitting 11 GIR. There’s a lot more to score than GIR. I honestly believe that your short game can never be too good. If you can chip and putt lights out, you’ll score pretty darn well no matter how off your swing is for the day. It allows you to just aim for safe miss spots, and know that you’ll probably get it up and down. If you’re putting is poor, even a solid drive and GIR will result in a 3putt bogey. This is a great topic, one that I’d love to continue to explore with those of you that have "gotten over the hump". I’ve been stuck in the 9-11 hcp range for the last few years, shooting 77-79 about 15 times, but simply can’t get it to the next level. I’m inspired by Rotella’s "The Golf Of Your Dreams", and have been working harder this year than ever before, but just not seeing the payoff yet. My plan is to continue to work with my pro for another 2 years, and see what happens. Rotella says to be patient, daring you to give it 3 years of hard work and not improve. We’ll see?? Richard Stern rstern at col dot hp dot com
I see a lot of golfers with single figure handicaps here in scotland who have technically deficient swings (in the pro’s eyes, at least..) and some of the more senior players can only manage 180 yards off the tee. I’ve figured out that they have low handicaps because they always chip the ball very close from anywhere inside 50 yards, and they rarely, if ever, miss putts from inside 12feet. The GIR thing is a nice concept, but nobody can hit 100% of greens, and at that point you have to get up and down in 2 to save par. Save 100% of pars and you’re scratch! Oscar.
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!):
What is the rating/slope of your course. Must be pretty easy it you are a 10 without breaking 80. I’m an 11.9, and have 5 scores in the 70’s from mid summer to now. I’ve shot 2 of those in the last week. I should get near 10 hcap when those are factored in (they will replace a couple 87’s from early summer). - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
You have to pick through it carefully, but your right, golfers golf, readers read. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you
Not always. Yesterday, for instance I shot my best score (76). I only hit 7 greens in regulation, and 5 fairways. The key is my misses (fairways and greens) were close and I putted very well. I only missed one putt that I really though I should have made. I lagged all the long ones into virtual tap in range. don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par.
There is nothing wrong with par. I’ll tak 18 of them every time I tee it up. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
What has really turned my scores around this year is my tee shots. I finally found a club I can handle off the tee and keep the ball in play. It’s a slightly oversized 14* 3 wood head with a Dynamic Gold S-300 shaft in normal driver length. I credit this one club with saving my game. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80!
You will, just be patient. Take a good look at your next round of 80 or 81. Where did you lose those couple strokes that would have put you under 80. What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
I get off a little early on Monday and Tuesday. I can usually practice and play on those days. On Wednesday, I get off at 4:30 and usually practice or play. I mostly take Thursday-Sunday off and do other things like mow the yard, go to the lake, etc. I will offer one little mental tip that you can use or ignore as you wish. Next time out focus on getting 5 pars and 4 bogeys per nine. This will bring you in at 80 on a par 72. That’s all I do right now. When I tee it up, I’m shooting for 80. If I get some birdies, great I’m in the 70s. If I’m a little off, maybe I shoot an 82… so what.
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Hey, but that’s just my opinion. 8-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): – You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing. – The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. – Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
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I’m inspired by Rotella’s "The Golf Of Your Dreams", and have been working harder this year than ever before, but just not seeing the payoff yet. My plan is to continue to work with my pro for another 2 years, and see what happens. Rotella says to be patient, daring you to give it 3 years of hard work and not improve. We’ll see??
I think this question "What does it really take to get good?" is exactly what "The Golf of Your Dreams" addresses. I’ve just finished reading it and have also been inspired by it. I’m just starting out on the *real* improvement path! This Rotella book is definitely not for the casual golfer who can’t commit, especially in terms of time. Colin Wilson Trentham Golf Club http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/trentham
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
Agreed. There’s only so much guidance you can get without some real hands-on instruction from someone who *knows* your swing. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
There has been alot of debate in this newsgroup on this issue. Suffice it to say there are varying schools of thought about it. If you can’t get off the tee, it’s hard to get on the green in reg. If you can’t get on the green in reg, it’s hard to make birdies. If you can’t chip, it’s hard to save par, etc., etc., etc. So I would say that to get *good*, you’ve got to have the complete package. (We didn’t even mention putting, and I would assert if you can’t putt, you can’t get good, period.) Having said that, I think it’s important to define "good." To someone who can’t break 100, a consistent 90 shooter who shoots in the 80s occasionally is "good." To an 80 shooter, someone who shoots in the mid 70s consistently is "good." To 2 handicapper, "good" may have yet another definition. If you define "good" as pro-level, the only real answer is to immerse yourself totally in golf. If you didn’t start at a very young age, unless you’re an exception, it’s probably too late. But if you’re satisfied with accepting a somewhat different threshold as "good," then dedicate yourself to those elements of your game where you’re weak, whether it’s off the tee, iron play, chipping or putting. To get really "good," you gotta have it all, at least to some degree. But I’ll tell ya what — give me a guy who can make decent (not great) contact with all his clubs and who can chip and putt, and I’ll take his short game over a long knocker who can’t putt any time, anywhere. I play with a group of fellows who blow the ball 40 yards by me quite routinely. Even when I’m not making great contact with my irons, I can usually keep up with ‘em just because I drive ‘em crazy getting up and down from some of the most improbable spots. Not only does it keep the score reasonable, it has the added benefit of unsettling my opponents. Would I trade my short game for consistentle being able to belt my driver 270 yards? Not a chance. Randy
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Interesting post. I would submit that being a 10 qualifies someone as being capable of shooting in the 70s (w/o it being a total fluke). Between 5-10 means that you should be in the mid to high 70s on a reasonable basis, but are prone to be in the 80s on an off day; it also means you are capable of shooting in the low 70s on a good day. Less than 5 means that you should never be in the 80s (much like you rarely expect to be in the 90s now), and are likely to be below 70 on a good day… The point is that you are definitely in that zone where a score in the 70s is feasible. I would submit, however, that doing so will likely *NOT* depend on optimizing any one performance factor such as GIR. Rather, I would suggest you analyze your course (presumably your home course) and develop a specific strategy. My index is presently 6.9, but I have played at near scratch golf back while competing at the collegiate level. I, too, am a one-twice/week player with one practice in between when time permits… but ironically, I’ve goaled myself to be a consistent 3-4 level player over the next 12 months— so relatively speaking, we are both on the same crusade. Here is what I am doing: 1) Get a coach— not a teacher, but a coach. Someone who you connect with, and who understands your goals— for me, this meant finding an individual who had successfully competed at a level beyond that which I had ever reached. Setup a *regular schedule*; if it’s once/month— fine. Once/week better. You make a good point about GIR, and that means consistent ball striking. For me, my coach is all about maintaining consistency. It is amazing what little gremlins creep into your swing w/o you ever detecting it— especially if you are not playing more than once/week. 2) Analyze your scores, and determine your patterns… sounds like you have already done this. I use the following statistics: Score/Hole Putts/Hole (both in GIR and total to factor out shortgame effects) GIR, Avg distance from pin Non Par 3 Fairways Hit Pitch Saves (< 100yds w/wrist break) Chip Saves (< 20 yds w/no wrist break) Sand Saves ( greenside only ) 3) Rather than focusing upon any one statistic, set of a target range for *ALL* statistics. For example, my club is a difficult and narrow course with large undulating greens typically rolling at 10+ on the stimp. In my case, GIR plays less of a role because several greens present multi-tier, double breaks… and in some cases, the ball will simply not roll to a rest if you are above the hole. My point is that statistics which influence score will tend to vary depending upon the course characteristics. This is something very easy to see on the Tour. For example, at Pebble Beach & Riveria, the greens are very small so GIR is very important (as seen in the US Senior Open). On other courses such as Augusta, the shortgame and putting are equally if not more important. For my own course, I target the following for each round: 5 GIR/nine 5 Fairways per nine 1 3 Putt/Round Limit (we have very difficult greens) 0 Double Bogeys 0 Penalty Strokes In addition, I chunk the round into 2-hole segments. Ever notice how you can get refreshed after the 9-hole turn? I try to reduce this cycle into 2-hole segments. Ironcially, this has probably saved more rounds than anything else! I find keeping concentration over 9 holes is difficult— 2 holes is much easier and then I just start over. Anyway, my input to this most interesting topic is that your dilema is exactly what makes this such an amazing game— it is the only game I know of which involves both left and right hemispheres, and as such, results (both positive and negative) are due to numerous factors working concurrently. Focusing on one thing will tend to create the ‘leaky boat effect’— fix one hole, and out comes another…! By creating a total game strategy (moderated to your time, financial, and emotional resources), you can setup reasonable goals for improvement. Getting to a 10 is a great accomplishment; regroup, and develop a total strategy and timeline— but most importanly, enjoy the journey… even if that is easier said than done! Best of luck! Adrian
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For years I have maintained a handicap of 9-10…this year it changed for the better… I am now a 6 and finished third in our club championship… This year I bought a new set of clubs (No, I don’t believe you can buy a game), Mizuno Trues with the Sensicore shafts. I had been using a knockoff Cobra set with graphite/boron. The most immediate change was my touch around the greens…it improved SIGNIFICANTLY! I attribute that improvement to the added touch of steel. But, the primary reason for my handicap improvement was the thrice-weekly trip to the practice green with my shag bag. I would hit short chips (approx. 200 of them each trip) with a variety of clubs and a variety of lies (at our course the "rough" is somewhat akin to US Open rough, just a shade shorter). My handicap dropped because I PRACTICED!!! Keep at it! Bob Hattery
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: I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my : cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course : (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): : : - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you : don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re : on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. : - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on : your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, : you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That : tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. : : ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! : What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most : people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice : a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
: A legit 10-handicap is a very good achievement. Few golfers ever get that : good. Unless you have time to devote to a high level of proactice and : playing time, then 10 may be what you live with and enjoy. I’m a legit 9.0 index, and most of the time I feel like a total hack. I play with lots of better players (1-6 hcap), and I’d like to think I can get that good someday. Here’s what I think it takes, based on watching these better players: - keep the ball in play. If a tee ball does find the trees (and it will occasionally), get out in a safe manner. - solid short game. Chips/pitches from easy spots and good lies must get close to the hole. - solid putting. Must take advantage of reasonable birdie putts and short saves for par. Cannot afford to 3 putt very often. - hit the greens from 160yds and closer most of the time. - hit the green almost every time from 100yds. - mental focus. Ignore the occasional double, and just get back to stringing pars together. Obviously every player has his own balance of strenghts and weaknesses. The more greens you miss, either because you’re short or wild off the tee or not very accurate with the irons, the better short game you must have. I shot 79 this year hitting 5 GIR, and I also shot 81 hitting 11 GIR. There’s a lot more to score than GIR. I honestly believe that your short game can never be too good. If you can chip and putt lights out, you’ll score pretty darn well no matter how off your swing is for the day. It allows you to just aim for safe miss spots, and know that you’ll probably get it up and down. If you’re putting is poor, even a solid drive and GIR will result in a 3putt bogey. This is a great topic, one that I’d love to continue to explore with those of you that have "gotten over the hump". I’ve been stuck in the 9-11 hcp range for the last few years, shooting 77-79 about 15 times, but simply can’t get it to the next level. I’m inspired by Rotella’s "The Golf Of Your Dreams", and have been working harder this year than ever before, but just not seeing the payoff yet. My plan is to continue to work with my pro for another 2 years, and see what happens. Rotella says to be patient, daring you to give it 3 years of hard work and not improve. We’ll see?? Richard Stern rstern at col dot hp dot com
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I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.
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I’m a 20 handicap, so arguably I don’t know squat. In my defense, I would say that all the elements of my game are pretty good, I just haven’t managed to get them all good in concert when I go out on the course. It’ll happen any day now… That having been said, my 2 pennies: I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): – You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing.
Absolutely. I admit, however, to being a Golf Channel addict, but only because I’ve picked up numerous tips on putting and the short game (mainly from watching Dave Pelz). Trying to learn the golf swing from a TV show or video is a dubious proposition at best. – The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par.
I disagree for reasons I’ll explain below. – Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game.
I really disagree with you here. Having spent a lot of time recently working on chipping, pitching and putting, I’ve realized what a lifesaver a good short game can be. While it’s true that you’re unlikely to make birdies on par 4s if you miss the green, good chipping/pitching will save par. If your definition of "good" is shooting in the 70s, then that’s what you have to do. Do it 18 times in a row and you’re a hero. Plus, on par 5s, a good short game will help you score. I would bet that at your level, if you’re not on the green in 2, you’re only +/- 60 yds out. Get down in 2 and voila, birdie. Having said that, I agree that good approach shots make the game a lot easier. I had a 93 last week that should have been an 88, except for a few bad mid-irons. Then again, even the pros push the occasional 8-iron. What saves them is their incredible short games. Remsleep
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As you form your practice patterns, remember that you will only hit half the fairways in regulation if you are getting any distance at all. Then you will only hit about half the GIR. So that means that you will be chipping or pitching on every other hole. (Of course, you will be putting on almost every hole). A legit 10-handicap is a very good achievement. Few golfers ever get that good. Unless you have time to devote to a high level of proactice and playing time, then 10 may be what you live with and enjoy. Mitch Alderman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m a legit 10 handicap (count all strokes, putt-out, turn in all my cards, etc.) OK. I can’t seem to break 80 even on my home course (shot 80 twice). Here are my thoughts (opinions only!): - You can’t get good reading golf magazines. Too much info, too many conflicting tips that may or may not apply to your game/swing. - The only stat. that really counts is greens-in-regulation. If you don’t get a GIR, the best you can hope for is par, while if you’re on the green, most of the time the worst you get is par. - Sayings like "70% of the game is played from 100 yds. in so work on your short game" are BOGUS! If you hit your approach shots better, you wouldn’t have to worry so much about chipping and putting. That tells me work on your irons AT LEAST as much as your short game. ‘Course, I could be all screwed up. After all, I can’t break 80! What do YOU think it takes to get good, especially considering most people have a full-time job and can only get to the range once or twice a week to practice and get to play at most once/week.