Question:
An addendum. Still having problems with clubs longer than a 5 iron…either pulling or pulling with a hook. Saw my teaching pro for lesson 2 today. He identifed the problem right away. On the takeway, when the shaft was parrallel to the ground, my clubface was closed, and thus closed at the top. Worked very hard at being parrallel with good results….straight or left or right rough. He said my legwork and grip was fine. Incidently, George’s drill is very helpful for me to maintain plane and not overcocking at the top, thus losing control of the clubhead. I have made improvements on both these swing faults. I find George’s thumb drill to be very helpful when using my protrator too.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help!
Response:
says… Thanks Kenny. It’s great to hear from a soulmate. I’m glad you can feel my pain. : Your advice makes perfect sense to me. I will keep it as my swing thought tomorrow….(i.e. let the club do the work). I’m sure I have a tendency, especially with a shorter swing, to muscle my woods. I’m unclear why you think the shorter driver will hurt?
<snip Greg, In the long term, it may well be that you’ll find you like a shorter driver. In the short term, though, if you are indeed having a problem with trying to muscle the ball, the lighter driver will just allow you to come around even faster. I recently cut my driver down from 45.5" to 44". The swingweight went from D8 to D0. Right now I’m happy with the change, but the first time out with it, believe me, I gave new meaning to the term "cranking it hard left." — Kenny Stultz RSG Rollcall: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/stultzk.htm
Response:
I think my setup is fine….otherwise my teaching pro would have
commented. The amount of tilt is "personal" to a degree, but you may be fine in that regard, as you comment. If you think about the following, you’ll see what I mean about the geometry of the swing direction: stand on your right foot alone; swing a club. notice how the swing is centered on the right side. stand on your left foot alone; swing a club. notice how the swing is centered on the left side. if your full golf swing is accomplished with the weight to the right of center of your body, the swing HAS to go to the left – like a hinged door where the hinge is to the right of the ball so the door hits the ball after the door has already started moving to the left. But if the weight is on the left foot at that moment, THAT is where the hinge is, so the swing direction is to the right. Notice how when someone gets his weight TOO far to the left, he slices! The pull or pull hook is often caused by exactly the opposite – the weight remaining to the right. I have "copyrighted" the comment: "where-ever the weight of your body is located, THAT is where the swing hinge — of the rotation of the body – is located" Point number 2 intrigues me. Are you suggesting I was doing a reverse pivot? I think you have something there.
Not a reverse: simply a failure to move over to the left side… maybe. Don’t know truly without actually seeing you… The scratch golfer I played with yesterday advised me to swing/slide through the ball. That advice helped to salvage a good back 9.
Could be that is what he saw! Good luck, Greg. And thanks for injecting your sane and decent comments… George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help! Pulls are often due to 1) insufficient tilt to the right (for a righty) which automatically routes the swinging motion more to the right; it is a universally taught setup thing, and many golfers ignore it. 2) not getting your weight over to the front foot FOR the downswing. So the geometry of a swing with the weight back somewhat means that the swing motion IS in the direction of the pull. I’d check those two things first. GH
Response:
Thanks Kenny. It’s great to hear from a soulmate. I’m glad you can feel my pain. : Your advice makes perfect sense to me. I will keep it as my swing thought tomorrow….(i.e. let the club do the work). I’m sure I have a tendency, especially with a shorter swing, to muscle my woods. I’m unclear why you think the shorter driver will hurt?
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help! Greg, I have always resisted giving swing advice in rsg because a) I’m not qualified and b) how can you give swing advice when you haven’t seen someone swing with your own two eyes. I’m breaking my rule because I see a lot of Kenny in what you’ve written. FWIW, I too fight bringing the club past parallel. When I shorten my swing to something reasonable I hook the ball and yank it left. I believe it’s because I get used to having to expend so much effort to get the club around when I take it back too far, that when I take back the proper amount and don’t make an adjustment, I come through way, way too fast. I suggest that you really try to ease up on your swing with your woods. That’s what works for me. If I keep from overswinging on the back swing and ease up on trying to see how far I can hit a golf ball, good things usually happen. At this point, if I’m correct about what’s causing your pulls, shortening your driver will make matters worse. HTH Kenny — Kenny Stultz RSG Rollcall: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/stultzk.htm
Response:
I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help!
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help!
Pulls are often due to 1) insufficient tilt to the right (for a righty) which automatically routes the swinging motion more to the right; it is a universally taught setup thing, and many golfers ignore it. 2) not getting your weight over to the front foot FOR the downswing. So the geometry of a swing with the weight back somewhat means that the swing motion IS in the direction of the pull. I’d check those two things first. GH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help!
Greg, I have always resisted giving swing advice in rsg because a) I’m not qualified and b) how can you give swing advice when you haven’t seen someone swing with your own two eyes. I’m breaking my rule because I see a lot of Kenny in what you’ve written. FWIW, I too fight bringing the club past parallel. When I shorten my swing to something reasonable I hook the ball and yank it left. I believe it’s because I get used to having to expend so much effort to get the club around when I take it back too far, that when I take back the proper amount and don’t make an adjustment, I come through way, way too fast. I suggest that you really try to ease up on your swing with your woods. That’s what works for me. If I keep from overswinging on the back swing and ease up on trying to see how far I can hit a golf ball, good things usually happen. At this point, if I’m correct about what’s causing your pulls, shortening your driver will make matters worse. HTH Kenny — Kenny Stultz RSG Rollcall: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/stultzk.htm
Response:
I think my setup is fine….otherwise my teaching pro would have commented. Point number 2 intrigues me. Are you suggesting I was doing a reverse pivot? I think you have something there. The scratch golfer I played with yesterday advised me to swing/slide through the ball. That advice helped to salvage a good back 9.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently resumed winter lessons. After videotaping my swing, my pro (the only pro who ever succeeded in curing my slice) stated I was making nice progress, especially with my inside/out swing plane. He identified my biggest swing fault as going past parallel on the takeway, thus robbing me of clubhead speed (early release) and accuracy. Consequently, session one (of 5) was soley devoted to having my hands not exceed shoulder height on the takeaway. Since shortening my takeway, my last two rounds has seen much better contact and accuracy with all clubs except my driver, 3W and 5W. I am having a rough time with pull shots to the left, or severe duck hooks (almost took out a windshield yesterday). When I’m able to keep my T shot in play, I score pars and bogies (and 1-2 birdies a round)….if not, doubles and triples, due to penalties (I’m averaged 2-3/round). Went to the driving range today and utilized a full length mirror, which indicated I was not overswinging. Hit nice draws until I got to the woods. Initially, out of 10 balls with my driver, 7 were severe pulls, 2 straight/draw….one fade. After experimenting, I bowed my knees in (like Hogan), putting pressure on the left inside foot on the set up. Result…..25% pulls and hooks, rest were straight/draws. I’m not sure why it worked, but it’s not good enough. A couple of nasty pulls on my home course means OB and a call to my Farmer’s agent. Curious why I have such trouble with these particular clubs. My driver of choice is a ProForce 65 shaft with an Olimar head. I am toying with the idea of using a shorter shafted driver. Sorry for the long post. Would appreciate help! Pulls are often due to 1) insufficient tilt to the right (for a righty) which automatically routes the swinging motion more to the right; it is a universally taught setup thing, and many golfers ignore it. 2) not getting your weight over to the front foot FOR the downswing. So the geometry of a swing with the weight back somewhat means that the swing motion IS in the direction of the pull. I’d check those two things first. GH