Question:
David, The "paradigm shift" was supposed to occur by now. It was to the single-axis school of golf. Apparently I missed the shift?
I must have missed it too. Have you talked to Greg of Greg and Greenie Golf?
I don’t associate with the single axis people. They’re the most dazed and confused group of golfers out there. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
Greg, If you are hitting the inside-out block, it may be that you aren’t too early but are going in the wrong direction. If the feet and subsequently the legs go first and go too far laterally, then the club will fall too far inside and the ball will go right to right. If the thought during transition is too get "left" with the feet, knees, hips, and even the shoulders, then the butt-end will chase the body and the clubhead will point at the "target line" when the head is the closest part of the club to the ground. This should kill the block. Redgoat
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may try working on the sequence of your golf swing. Your backswing is waiting for something to stop it, and it isn’t in your brain but in your feet. The beginning of your downswing will stop your backswing if your sequence is correct, ie. from the ground up. Your feet should start working your body to the ball before the club has reached the top of the backswing. The arms and club can no longer go "back" because the body is going in the opposite direction. For most people, it is difficult to comprehend just how early the body begins to work back to the ball. However, this is a very "athletic" action that you have been doing in other sports since you were a toddler. If you throw a ball, hit a baseball, etc. you will become aware of your body going forward while your arm(s) are still trying to go back. Very athletic!! I can hit/throw a baseball with ease, as well as most other athletic moves. But…..the move you described is the hardest athletic move I’ve ever tried to do. My pro is earnestly trying to get me to master it. I can do it, one out of 5 swings….the rest are disasters. The benefits of this proper sequence are better balance and all that is related to it. Last thing, it isn’t critical that the swing is short but just that it is in sequence. Daly and others are examples of longer swings that are still in the right order. It has been my experience that most amatuers struggle with their sequence when they wait too long to get started down. Yep, or spring forward too soon, resulting in a pushed spray. -Greg
Not that I have this completely down yet, myself, but the sensation I have is swinging back to about 3/4 position, and then slowly shifting the weight over onto my left heel. I don’t have any conciousness about it happening, but while my attention is on moving my weight onto my left heel, the arms and clubshaft continue up due to momentum. I’m always amazed when I see this on video, because I swear I’m only swinging 3/4, but the clubshaft ends up parallel, or slightly beyond. The shift to the left, for me, is not a big power move, but it puts the body in a position to support a fast swing with the arms.
Response:
You may try working on the sequence of your golf swing. Your backswing is waiting for something to stop it, and it isn’t in your brain but in your feet. The beginning of your downswing will stop your backswing if your sequence is correct, ie. from the ground up. Your feet should start working your body to the ball before the club has reached the top of the backswing. The arms and club can no longer go "back" because the body is going in the opposite direction. For most people, it is difficult to comprehend just how early the body begins to work back to the ball. However, this is a very "athletic" action that you have been doing in other sports since you were a toddler. If you throw a ball, hit a baseball, etc. you will become aware of your body going forward while your arm(s) are still trying to go back.
Very athletic!! I can hit/throw a baseball with ease, as well as most other athletic moves. But…..the move you described is the hardest athletic move I’ve ever tried to do. My pro is earnestly trying to get me to master it. I can do it, one out of 5 swings….the rest are disasters. The benefits of this proper sequence are better balance and all that is related to it. Last thing, it isn’t critical that the swing is short but just that it is in sequence. Daly and others are examples of longer swings that are still in the right order. It has been my experience that most amatuers struggle with their sequence when they wait too long to get started down.
Yep, or spring forward too soon, resulting in a pushed spray. -Greg
Response:
David, I have enjoyed reading your posts over the past few weeks. Congratulations on your G.S.E.M. accomplishment, your grasp of the information is admirable.
Thank you! I am heading down to Augusta next week, you going? If so, let me know and we will hook up.
No, but I hope to go one day. I do miss the other group as it was always so entertaining. By the way, has the "paradigm shift" happened yet?
??? enlighten me. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
David, The "paradigm shift" was supposed to occur by now. It was to the single-axis school of golf. Apparently I missed the shift? Have you talked to Greg of Greg and Greenie Golf? Redgoat
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You may try working on the sequence of your golf swing. Your backswing is waiting for something to stop it, and it isn’t in your brain but in your feet. The beginning of your downswing will stop your backswing if your sequence is correct, ie. from the ground up. Your feet should start working your body to the ball before the club has reached the top of the backswing. The arms and club can no longer go "back" because the body is going in the opposite direction. For most people, it is difficult to comprehend just how early the body begins to work back to the ball. However, this is a very "athletic" action that you have been doing in other sports since you were a toddler. If you throw a ball, hit a baseball, etc. you will become aware of your body going forward while your arm(s) are still trying to go back. The benefits of this proper sequence are better balance and all that is related to it. Last thing, it isn’t critical that the swing is short but just that it is in sequence. Daly and others are examples of longer swings that are still in the right order. It has been my experience that most amatuers struggle with their sequence when they wait too long to get started down.
Hey Brady how’s it going? Glad you could join us! I’m not going to tell anyone who your are. You can do that if you want too. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
"Brady"? "Riggs"? "Redgoat"? Hmmm…me thinks I have read enough Golf Tips magazine to figure this one out. cheers, Sherlock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Brady how’s it going? Glad you could join us! I’m not going to tell anyone who your are. You can do that if you want too. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
Old disease for me [though aging has toned it down a lot]. Cure: Take it back slow & low. You’ll better feel when the club is in the best position. Most golfers underestimate how far the club goes back until they see themselves. I once went way past parallel [not like JD, but past]. The further back you go, the more control it takes & the more precise the timing has to be to create a good impact dynamic. Try "slow & low".
Response:
David, I have enjoyed reading your posts over the past few weeks. Congratulations on your G.S.E.M. accomplishment, your grasp of the information is admirable. I am heading down to Augusta next week, you going? If so, let me know and we will hook up. I do miss the other group as it was always so entertaining. By the way, has the "paradigm shift" happened yet? Just Curious, Redgoat
Response:
You may try working on the sequence of your golf swing. Your backswing is waiting for something to stop it, and it isn’t in your brain but in your feet. The beginning of your downswing will stop your backswing if your sequence is correct, ie. from the ground up. Your feet should start working your body to the ball before the club has reached the top of the backswing. The arms and club can no longer go "back" because the body is going in the opposite direction. For most people, it is difficult to comprehend just how early the body begins to work back to the ball. However, this is a very "athletic" action that you have been doing in other sports since you were a toddler. If you throw a ball, hit a baseball, etc. you will become aware of your body going forward while your arm(s) are still trying to go back. The benefits of this proper sequence are better balance and all that is related to it. Last thing, it isn’t critical that the swing is short but just that it is in sequence. Daly and others are examples of longer swings that are still in the right order. It has been my experience that most amatuers struggle with their sequence when they wait too long to get started down. Redgoat
Response:
John Daly’s wrists are very flexible, and he doesn’t think he has too much backswing. But his grip is consistent – it doesn’t loosen so the club has "wiggle room". It’s almost impossible for the club to fall out of your hand, but it’s real easy for it to "dip". You just want to have the wrists cocked before that top of the backswing. Otherwise that "dip" move can cause a lot of inconsistency.
One swing problem that might cause overswing would happen if during the the arms fall under the plane. The golfer may notice the coil is not as tight and may compensate by turning past parallel to feel the same tightness. Regarding the grip, dip, and wiggle room: I read a golf mag (the one with an article about a chicken swing) on the way to AZ, that touted improving the drive by teeing up higher and not grounding the driver. Not a new concept, but I’d never been interested in trying it so I did at my next practice session. Hanging the club from the hands caused me to grip a little firmer and reduced any "wiggly" feel I may have had when grounding the club. Kept the wigglies out at the top a little better, too. Being clear of the ground of course eliminated catching in the grass at the takeaway which was nice. One thing I didn’t like was the feeling in the wrists and hands as the club’s weight torqued the hands down. I tried it with the irons too, lifting less, like ~1cm for irons, ~2plus cm for driver. The jury is still out on both. -Gray
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – – Don’t let your left elbow bend (more than just a little). – Don’t loosen your grip at the top. – Don’t reverse pivot. If you do these, you will find it hard to go much past parallel, unless you are extremely flexible. Keeping a flat left wrist at the top also helps. I am curious about "Don’t loosen your grip at the top". Do you mean such that the club might slip out of your hand? Or do you mean, so that the club doesn’t get cocked by your backwards movement? I don’t reverse pivot and my left elbow is pretty straight – but I am quite flexible and it is very easy for me to have too much back-swing.
David Laville’s comments in this thread are also valid, and might be your problem (I’d forgotten about that). Regarding the grip, common problems are loosening the last three fingers of the left hand (like Bobby Jones used to do on purpose, but you aren’t Bobby Jones), or letting the club slide down in the notch between your thumb and left hand, or letting your two hands come apart at the top. You can check for problems by sticking tees between the butt of the club and the palm of your left hand, and in various other cracks and crevices in your grip and then taking a swing to see if any of them fall out. If they do, you will know where something is getting loose. If you are still getting more than 90* of wristcock, though, you might consider going to the weaker grip with the left hand & flat wrist at the top that I talked about before. This forces the wristcock to be a purely radial motion of the left hand that, in itself, limits the amount of wristcock that can occur. Why is this a good idea? Well, if you have a 90* angle, when you start the downswing the pull that is in effect exerted on the clubshaft is straight down the shaft, so things don’t wobble around so much. But I would take a long, hard look at that left elbow. That’s where the problem usually is.
Response:
I am curious about "Don’t loosen your grip at the top". Do you mean such that the club might slip out of your hand? Or do you mean, so that the club doesn’t get cocked by your backwards movement? I don’t reverse pivot and my left elbow is pretty straight – but I am quite flexible and it is very easy for me to have too much back-swing.
John Daly’s wrists are very flexible, and he doesn’t think he has too much backswing. But his grip is consistent – it doesn’t loosen so the club has "wiggle room". It’s almost impossible for the club to fall out of your hand, but it’s real easy for it to "dip". You just want to have the wrists cocked before that top of the backswing. Otherwise that "dip" move can cause a lot of inconsistency.
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it.
Mirror. I used to overswing and then have to come over the top just so I could mishit badly for all my effort. My problem was that I wanted to feel some kind of stretch so I could rebound against it and knock the crap out of the ball. All wrong. Try this,instead of focusing on how far past parallel you’re going, focus instead on making a complete honest to god 90* shoulder turn. I bet if you do that, keep your left arm fairly straight and your left wrist flat, that’ll give you enough of that stretch feeling that you won’t feel you need to go past parallel. . . All caveats apply, hacker not a pro, "get lessons from your local PGA pro" etc, etc. . .
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it.
Either keep your left foot flat if you’re lifting it, limit your backswing hip turn or make sure your right foot isn’t flaring out too much. All of these will create more tension in the backswing limiting how far you can take the club back. David Laville, G.S.E.M. The Golfing Machine Authorized Instructor Contributor Of Consistent & Spam Free Golf Advice
Response:
– Don’t let your left elbow bend (more than just a little). – Don’t loosen your grip at the top. – Don’t reverse pivot. If you do these, you will find it hard to go much past parallel, unless you are extremely flexible. Keeping a flat left wrist at the top also helps.
I am curious about "Don’t loosen your grip at the top". Do you mean such that the club might slip out of your hand? Or do you mean, so that the club doesn’t get cocked by your backwards movement? I don’t reverse pivot and my left elbow is pretty straight – but I am quite flexible and it is very easy for me to have too much back-swing.
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks
- Don’t let your left elbow bend (more than just a little). – Don’t loosen your grip at the top. – Don’t reverse pivot. If you do these, you will find it hard to go much past parallel, unless you are extremely flexible. Keeping a flat left wrist at the top also helps.
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it.
The best thing to do is stop thinking in terms of "club parallel to ground". Start thinking of how much you can turn, and of not losing control of your wrist cock. The position of your club will be unique. For some people, short of parallel might still be too long of a backswing. For others, parallel might not be far enough.
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks
Dave, An easy way to do this is to view your backswing as a clock dial & limit the top of your swing to say 10 o’clock or 11 o’clock, e.g. It gives you a good visualization clue & should help increase your precision. Works for me when my swing gets a little loose. YMMV…
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it.
Lots of practice with video cameras, preferably one overhead. I had absolutely no idea where my club was pointing on my backswing before I took lessons at Bogart. I was amazed when I discovered that when I tried to do a 3/4 swing in front of such a camera, it was exactly parallel.
Response:
Firm up the wrists without increasing grip pressure. My guess is that the wrists are breaking down causing the club to go past parallel. If you are going past parallel because of a shoulder turn, don’t worry about it. Learn to play it and use that extended power. Because as you get older, it will diminish. — Bryan D. Greer Tulsa, OK bdgreer1 at cox dot net
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks
Why would you want to do that? me
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks
If you limit your body turn by bracing your right knee, toe parallel or even turned a bit to the target. If you do not permit your left arm to bend more than a bit. If you do not let your grip or left wrist break down; then there is no need TO limit your backswing amplitude. The long driver Zuback and John Daly both have identical swings in that their clubhead almost hits the left knee. Doesn’t seem to hurt their games…. FWIW GH
Response:
Does anyone have any suggestions for how to cure oneself of back swinging way past parrallel? I always try to limit my backswing, but can’t seem to control it. Thanks