Question:
How many people know that if you hit a ball in the center of the clubface, you have mis-hit the ball? The center of your clubface is not usually the center of percussion, sweetspot, balance point of the clubhead, or whatever word you want to use. If you hit your irons dead center every time, you are mis-hitting and getting less distance than you should. OK, here’s why, and here’s how you can find the sweetspot of YOUR clubs. It is because, despite heel toe weighting, clubhead construction CONTINUES to be constricted by the large amount of steel necessary to make a hosel. It is because before they even begin to design a club, there is a lot of steel at the heel. If they were to make the toe heavy enough to offset it perfectly, you would end up with, probably, too heavy a club. Here is another feature of the issue: the axis of the swinging club runs from the grip end down to and through the clubhead. It does not run through the hosel; if you suspend the clubhead down by holding the grip end between your two palms and then rub back and forth, you’ll see how the hosel rotates around the club; the clubhead does not rotate around the hosel. So the axis of the turning club runs DIAGONALLY through the clubhead from the sole up towards the grip cap, so that when you locate the axis of the SOLE, and then draw a line from that to the grip cap, you will have the approximate axis of the whole club. It does not run up through the clubhead perpendicular to the sole. A ball struck inside of that line is "on the heel". A ball struck outside that line is "on the toe". You find the axis of the club by tapping the sole while suspending the club by your fingers while it is hanging there. If a tap causes the club to turn, you keep tapping until you locate where to tap it so that it does not turn. Or you could do it by "plumbing" the club by hanging it on a string at the grip end and locating exactly where a perfectly vertical line from the top to the bottom intersects the sole. Once you have found the axis of the club, you can mark it with a pencil on the clubface. It will run from appx. a hair further out from center at the bottom of the club on most clubs, diagonally up through the clubface, towards the grip cap. Now, a ball is not struck well if it is thin, or low on the clubface. The manufacturers attempt to lower the mass in the clubhead as low as possible in order to make it more likely that you CAN hit it purely. It is critical, since the diameter of the ball is 1.6 inches in diameter, putting its impact point very low – maybe 5/8 inches from the ground. So to keep from hitting the ground first, a golfer would like a low center of gravity in the clubhead so that his shot is "pure." When you have penciled a line from the bottom axis point up along the clubface, you’ll discover that when you get about 5/8 or 3/4 inches up from the bottom (irons only — woods is a different matter — addressed below) that the pencil line is CLOSER TO THE HOSEL than you imagined. At that point the line is not in the center of the face – on most clubs. I marked a spot on my clubs based on which scribed line the manufacturer said was the center of percussion as concerns up from the bottom. I did it with a very tiny drilled indentation, on the axis and in the groove indicated by the mfr. Not only does the shot feel great when my chalked ball imprints hit that spot dead center; the ball also travels farther than when I hit shots in the "center of the clubface". Because the two spots are not the same in their ability to impart full mass into the ball. Many fairway woods have the same properties as the irons, but some drivers use a much higher center of percussion sweet spot, because with the ball on a tee, low c/g is not important or even good. But locating the c/g for a driver involves the same process of plumbing, and then tapping on the axis line until you have found the spot where there is the least vibration as a result. It probably is about 7/8 inches up from the sole on most drivers. A call or email to the manufacturer of the club may get you that particular info for your club. Then you may well discover that the sweetspot is NOT the center of your driver, either. My new 12 degree fairway driver from Peerless, before I shafted it, balanced on a point exactly halfway between the top and bottom pattern on the clubface, but 1/4 inch closer to the heel than the center of the face pattern. So now I know that I want my chalk impact mark on my drive to match that off-center spot, not the center of the clubface. Interestingly subtle, this game of golf. All of the above is IMO, FWIW, and with due respect for opinion. In checking the verbosity, I decided that anything I said is better left said than deleted. For the sake of completeness and clarity. Thank you. When you like a post, save/print it. Saves reposting. — — — George Hibbard Pendulum Press (800) 226-9326 www.perfectimpact.com begin 666 George Hibbard.vcf M0D5′24XZ5D-!4D0-"E9%4E-)3TXZ,BXQ#0I..DAI8F)A<F0[1V5O<F=E#0I& M="YC;VT-"D5-04E,.U!2148[24Y415).150Z9VA <&5R9F5C=&EM<&%C="YC ` end
Response:
Here is another feature of the issue: the axis of the swinging club runs from the grip end down to and through the clubhead. It does not run through the hosel; if you suspend the clubhead down by holding the grip end between your two palms and then rub back and forth, you'll see how the hosel rotates around the club; the clubhead does not rotate around the hosel.
Does anyone recall me saying the club rotates around the sweetspot and not the hosel? Wonder where he may get his information? This is from 2F of The Golfing Machine - Except during impact the clubshaft can travel on, or to and from, either plane because clubshaft [hosel] rotation must be around the sweet spot. Or you could do it by "plumbing" the club by hanging it on a string at the grip end and locating exactly where a perfectly vertical line from the top to the bottom intersects the sole.
Again, does this sound like something I’ve said numerous times? Here is the definition of "sweet spot" from the glossary of The Golfing Machine – The spot on the clubface through which a plumb-bob would pass if suspended from the grip end. You make the decision. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is another feature of the issue: the axis of the swinging club runs from the grip end down to and through the clubhead. It does not run through the hosel; if you suspend the clubhead down by holding the grip end between your two palms and then rub back and forth, you’ll see how the hosel rotates around the club; the clubhead does not rotate around the hosel. Does anyone recall me saying the club rotates around the sweetspot and not the hosel? Wonder where he may get his information? This is from 2F of The Golfing Machine – Except during impact the clubshaft can travel on, or to and from, either plane because clubshaft [hosel] rotation must be around the sweet spot. Or you could do it by "plumbing" the club by hanging it on a string at the grip end and locating exactly where a perfectly vertical line from the top to the bottom intersects the sole. Again, does this sound like something I’ve said numerous times? Here is the definition of "sweet spot" from the glossary of The Golfing Machine – The spot on the clubface through which a plumb-bob would pass if suspended from the grip end. You make the decision. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
David: I got here last month. Have no idea what you might have said in earlier posts. I have no trouble at all admitting that something I read 30 years ago in Kelley may have put a particular image into my head — I don’t keep a record of where I heard what. But in 1952 I graduated from an Ivy League College with a minor in physics, so I might have gained some of the insight there too, and I can’t remember my physics professor’s name to credit HIM with it. Nor the arithmetic teacher in grade school to credit her for informing me how 2+2 is 4. Nor the geography teacher who helped me find my way around the US. This is not facile or sarcastic in the slightest, David. I LIKE YOU VERY MUCH. I ENJOYED our too brief visit. But this is about the processing and recollection of thoughts. Speaking for myself, I imagine that I probably have not had many "original" thoughts in my whole life of any consequence, if ANY. Everything of INFORMATION I have stored CAME TO ME from a source, whether it was a map, a school teacher, a book, a video, someone telling me, a photo, or anything. I do not create information. And when I "store" it in one of the "folders" deep inside my head, I don’t always include the bibliography of its origin. If this steps on toes for failure to credit, I am guilty, and I apologize for any appropriate oversight in that regard. Is it appropriate TO credit ideas expressed here that came to us from old experiences? But what IS original is my PROcessing of the info I get And sometimes something I say turns on a light for someone because of the WAY I say it. And that is the whole business of this rsg. (I am amazed how much stuff discussed here was so thoroughly discussed and explained in the "Search For…" book often referred to here, and everyone discusses stuff covered there like it’s brand new info. But it is not about being THE author; it is about sharing one’s personal experiences whether "happy" or " oh sh…..t") I apologize to you if this was a failure to credit. But I had NO recollection that anything I said DID, if it did, originate from Kelley. Physics is physics, center of gravity, plumb, axis, and those words are generic. It would be no surprise to me if two physicists would come up with similar verbage about a specific principle. [I was scheduled to go on to MIT, but I proved too stupid. Couldn't handle the math. So I stayed at Amherst.] George
Response:
Here is another feature of the issue: the axis of the swinging club runs from the grip end down to and through the clubhead. It does not run through the hosel; if you suspend the clubhead down by holding the grip end between your two palms and then rub back and forth, you’ll see how the hosel rotates around the club; the clubhead does not rotate around the hosel. Does anyone recall me saying the club rotates around the sweetspot and not the hosel? Wonder where he may get his information?
Oh I’m sure he must have stollen this concept from you. Where else could he have posibbly gotten it? High school physics maybe? This is from 2F of The Golfing Machine – Except during impact the clubshaft can travel on, or to and from, either plane because clubshaft [hosel] rotation must be around the sweet spot.
Well, that comment is poorly worded. The sweet spot is not the center of gravity. The club rotates on an axis which passes though the center of gravity, not the sweet spot. Or you could do it by "plumbing" the club by hanging it on a string at the grip end and locating exactly where a perfectly vertical line from the top to the bottom intersects the sole. Again, does this sound like something I’ve said numerous times? Here is the definition of "sweet spot" from the glossary of The Golfing Machine – The spot on the clubface through which a plumb-bob would pass if suspended from the grip end. You make the decision.
The sweet spot is a spot on the club face which is where you want the ball to make contact to get the maximum energy transfer. The center of gravity is never on the club face. It’s not even in the club head at all. It’s 9 inches or so above the clubhead. When you hang the club from any single point, the CG will be directly below the suspension point. If you hang it from the center of the butt of the grip, the CG will be below that, and if you continue down to the club face you will get a point on the face which is also directly below the CG and the suspension point. But doing some experimenting with a club, I find that that point is about 1/4" to 1/2" closer to the heel than what I believe is the real sweet spot of the club I was working with (a Titleist 981 PW with steel shafts). And I suspect this will be true for most clubs. The plub line technique will produce results that seem to varry by about +- 1/2 inch depending on where you hang the club from and where you drop the plub line from. I believe the sweet spot of a club has more to do with the CG of the club head and not the CG of the entire club. So for the plumb test to produce accurate results, you need to hang the club so the CG of the head, and the CG of the shaft are aligend above/below each other. (I’m not going to explain why I say that 
). The tap test I believe produces more accurate results. Also, I found that spinning the club as it hangs down between the palms like George suggested also produces a very interesting result. It produces a single point on the club face (at lest for the irons I was working with) which I belive is very close to the sweet spot. I found that if I took a piece of masking tape, and put 4 dots on it, each in a different color ink, and then attach that to the face in about the spot I spect the sweet spot to be. I could then spin the club quickly with the palm test and look at the tape. What I would see is the color dot which was closest to the axis of rotation would stand still, while the others would circle around it and form blured color rings. If they are all forming rings as I spin it, then I move the tape so one dot is in the center of those rings and then I have the center of the axis of rotation which I belive is very close to the sweet spot (within 1/8" for typical irons). The real sweet spot I believe will actually be a little down from the center of rotation dot. But in any case, that point and the point/line you get trying to do a plumb-bob test seems to be about 1/4" appart. I wouldn’t use the plumb-bob test if you were trying to find the club’s sweet spot. Also, Dave Pelz (Putting Bible) claims that it’s very important to suspend a putter at it’s normal angle (as it would be when you use it) before doing a tap test to determine the sweet spot. If you hang it vertically you get bogus results. I don’t really understand that logic and my tests don’t seem to produce different results with any club doing it both ways. But I thought I’d mention that while were were talking about this subject. — Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com/
Response:
Curt I do agree with most of what you have been talking about. Lets not forget that during a proper swing the club not only swings in an arc but also rotates. Therefore the ball that is hit on the center of gravity will not be able to absorb this energy. This is why the hands turning over correctly gives you more distance. Mark
Response:
Given this definition does it follow that the location of lead tape on the club can potentially redefine the sweetspot? thanks, Jim says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is another feature of the issue: the axis of the swinging club runs from the grip end down to and through the clubhead. It does not run through the hosel; if you suspend the clubhead down by holding the grip end between your two palms and then rub back and forth, you’ll see how the hosel rotates around the club; the clubhead does not rotate around the hosel. Does anyone recall me saying the club rotates around the sweetspot and not the hosel? Wonder where he may get his information? This is from 2F of The Golfing Machine – Except during impact the clubshaft can travel on, or to and from, either plane because clubshaft [hosel] rotation must be around the sweet spot. Or you could do it by "plumbing" the club by hanging it on a string at the grip end and locating exactly where a perfectly vertical line from the top to the bottom intersects the sole. Again, does this sound like something I’ve said numerous times? Here is the definition of "sweet spot" from the glossary of The Golfing Machine – The spot on the clubface through which a plumb-bob would pass if suspended from the grip end. You make the decision. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Response:
Given this definition does it follow that the location of lead tape on the club can potentially redefine the sweetspot? thanks, Jim Very minimally, Jim, IMO. The clubhead weights run from about 295 grams
(PW) down to 200 or so for drivers. It makes more of a difference on drivers, and less on irons, because with any care to spread the tape evenly across the back of an iron, the difference in the mass of the clubhead vs. the amount of lead you could realistically consider using is too great. Besides, and this is what is not readily understood: YOU DO NOT DIRECT THE SWEETSPOT OF THE CLUB TO THE BALL BY EYE. You FEEL where the center of mass is, as it were. So your FEEL directs the club to the ball. So even if the sweetspot DOES get moved, YOUR procedure will remain the same. You’ll still hit the ball on the sweet spot with a well directed motion. It will appear a 16h of an inch (?) different, but the ball won’t know it. Some people intentionally put the tape on the TOP of their irons to lower the trajectory, or vice versa, because WHERE the mass is located relative to impact point does affect trajectory height a bit.. With woods, the protocol is more sensitive because there is more of an effect on ball trajectory depending on WHERE on the back, top, or underside of the large round clubhead you put the weight. I have zero expertise about that, however. It is technical and for experts to flesh out that part of it. But my experience is that for practical purposes, other than lowering or raising the percussion point of the clubface, it is insignificant what a little tape will do on an iron as far as impact integrity itself is concerned. George
Response:
Given this definition does it follow that the location of lead tape on the club can potentially redefine the sweetspot? thanks,
You bet! Placing the tap lower on the club will lower the sweetspot and visa versa. It’s the same principle why some manufacturers started putting more weight in the bottom of their woods, to lower the sweet spot supposedly allowing the player to get the ball airborne faster. Than there is the other issue. The more weight you put down the shaft the more the sweet spot moves closer to the hosel. Putting weight down the shaft will cause the shaft to hang more vertically and if you do the plum-bob experiment you will see it causes the string to hang closer to the hosel. This is why in some club assembly manuals they advise against putting too much weight down the shaft, it causes the sweet spot to shift. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique
Response:
Stupid question…first time messing with lead tape. How does tape placement towards toe or heel affect ball flight? Does tape near toe promote fade, near heel draw? Thanks.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given this definition does it follow that the location of lead tape on the club can potentially redefine the sweetspot? thanks, You bet! Placing the tap lower on the club will lower the sweetspot and visa versa. It’s the same principle why some manufacturers started putting more weight in the bottom of their woods, to lower the sweet spot supposedly allowing the player to get the ball airborne faster. Than there is the other issue. The more weight you put down the shaft the more the sweet spot moves closer to the hosel. Putting weight down the shaft will cause the shaft to hang more vertically and if you do the plum-bob experiment you will see it causes the string to hang closer to the hosel. This is why in some club assembly manuals they advise against putting too much weight down the shaft, it causes the sweet spot to shift. David Laville Charter Member, RSG Clique