Question:
Attack spelling errors? Never. Point out inconsistency in writing, in logic, in reasoning? Sure! If you hold yourself up as an expert, then you’d better be clear; crystal clear. Bruce, what he wrote was gibberish. I pointed it out. If he doesn’t want that kind of thing to occur, maybe he should consider what it is he’s writing more carefully, and perhaps he should even edit it a bit, or ask someone to review it before he posts it.
Well, we’ll have to disagree on this one. Writing skills are not a prerequisite for posting to RSG. I consider most of your replies to GH to be attacks as they are not in the least constructive and they have little do do with golf. George is perfectly entitled to write poorly and many people seem to enjoy his instruction. From my point of view, challenge his teachings if you must but give him a break on his writing style. Or, just don’t read him and help reduce the volume of garbage here. Bruce Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
CLIP TO: Can you name me any top 50 touring pro who takes lessons from David Lee? Can you tell us who these others are who considers him a genius? David Laville, G.S.E.M. Authorized Instructor Of The Golfing Machine
David, David Lee does not "give lessons" like many others, as though he stands and tells you to put the ball here, do this, do that, or whatever. His instruction is such that he eliminates himself in favor of the pupil becoming his own teacher. Every time I set up to a ball I am still benefitting from, and deepening my "lessons" from David Lee. He just doesn’t have to be standing there all the time for me to continually be instructed by him. I "use" his "lessons" as much in golf as I use syntactical speech, arithmetical reality, and judgment of things in motion for driving an automobile in other areas of my life. In the first 15 minutes of his observations of my own swing he taught me more than 20 years of lessons from anyone, in terms of liberating me from misconceptions, clarifying what I WAS doing and the sources of the goods and the bads, and liberating me to go do what DOES work. His penetration and insight was so on the money, so true, so profound, as to en LIGHT en that very hidden part of my subconscious to realities that no other teacher or protocol ever did, regardless. The value of his instruction is, as I said –LOOK MA, NO HANDS — my way of saying "I don’t need you any more David — I don’t need the training wheels of a daily instructor or coach." He boasts, as I like to do about myself, that his teaching eliminates your need for him as a teacher. It is the substance, not the man, that is the essence of his work. "Give a man a fish….." vs. "teach a man TO fish….!" This is not for one second to change the fact that he DOES give "lessons", but you would be quite surprised at how they DO play out. It’s a bit like a psychotherapeutic experience, where the deepest parts of your soul get laid on the table for dissection. What an enlightenment! And to have this man’s daily "check me out" eyes (as such as Gabrielle Reece and others of her stature DO have, the ones he has chose to work with) available to you is an incredible privilege. Don’t knock what you haven’t met, David. Want to critique someone? Get first hand and in depth acquaintance before simplisticism makes YOU look bad. The only critics of Gravity Golf or David Lee are those who do NOT know what he is about and have NOT been sufficiently immersed with him to have garnered his greatness. Others here speak of a common experience , which I will paraphrase — and I myself have experienced it in many different disciplines in addition to golf: "I didn’t catch on the first time — but on re-reading later, WHEN I WAS READY FOR IT, I got the message and the value from the instruction!" (If I walk by the pharmacy and smell aspirin, I do not get the benefit of the aspirin! As a matter of fact, its vinegar smell is kinda put-offish, isn’t it?) George
Response:
before I believe someone whose game is in the high 80s because he is a good chipper, and who has been playing lately for a couple years of Wisconsin-long summers. George, The funny thing is that he is better at golf than he is at virtually anything else, such as logic, intuitive reasoning, etc. A very sad individual.
Hey "Basil", a quick search of deja news shows that you have 3 posts, which are all anti-Dalecki in George threads. The first post was 3 days ago. Are you real, or are you George trying out his phoney English accent? Basil Highstreet? Just the kind of name George would dream up.
Response:
And as to whether it’s constructive or not, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Well not in this eye of this beholder. Thank you very much. Now will you all please go check into the Lodge?
Response:
before I believe someone whose game is in the high 80s because he is a good chipper, and who has been playing lately for a couple years of Wisconsin-long summers.
George, The funny thing is that he is better at golf than he is at virtually anything else, such as logic, intuitive reasoning, etc. A very sad individual.
Response:
Sorry to disagree, but he was the one who took issue with what I said. He was wrong, I pointed it out. Since the substance of the post was about what things like "make swings at knee level" were about, it’s clearly golf related. And as to whether it’s constructive or not, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I guess. I just call it being argumentative. Since it is no fun for me, I’ll just let you guys have at it. Bruce Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense. George: Do you ever READ what you write before you click the send button?
Even though I tend to agree that there is little need to critique his writing style, there is more to this. As you point out, his arguments always include the personal attacks, if there is any disagreement – there’s one way – that George’s; and if you don’t agree, you must be an idiot. My Greatest Criticism of GH: Another problem in my view is that he doesn’t even take the time to read posts. He seems to scan the post in a very cursory manner to get the gist of it, then begins writing some generic manuscript in response, sometimes not even responding to the questions posed by the poster or even the issue being discussed … this has happened many times to me and at least several times to others. I recall once, he responded in his typical manner (whatever you want to call that) to a post about a video game (I fell out of my chair laughing). My Second Criticism of GH: I have to admit that he has a reasonable knowledge of the mechanics of the golf swing. There is a problem, however, when someone with his years of experience can’t relate to the fact that there are differing views – some of which are probably cleary wrong, but most are valid, although different and some are opinions, just opinions (and I’m not referring to just my discussions with him). He has never, ever pointed out to anybody nor has he ever accepted the point of view that many of the fundamentals of the golf swing have changed over time. He has never, ever admitted a respect for a differing view or opinion even though there was disagreement – his standard response is "too stupid to learn" or "you’re just out to get me" – my words. This, in my view is a sign of nothing less than ignorance. My Third Cristicism of GH: George has had ample feedback about his posts. This includes the issues about spamming, writing style, length of posts, the list goes on and on. Often, the feedback has been extremely negative. Some have come to his defense (probably just because of the "level" of negativity). Some of these posts have been so negative, GH left the NG, twice. Yet, when he comes back, he comes back 100% the same. Geez, sometimes you have to be hard-headed – but this is a newsgroup, it’s a discussion. If you want to join in (and obviously he does), JOIN, which requires some mutual understand among members the group – not just in topic but in writing style, spamming, length of post, etc. I really don’t understand why he keeps fighting this – is he really that hard-headed or so into GH – that his personality or whatever prevents this?. And, this is not just my observation, it’s a criticism. Enough said. I’ve vented.
Response:
Sorry to disagree, but he was the one who took issue with what I said. He was wrong, I pointed it out. Since the substance of the post was about what things like "make swings at knee level" were about, it’s clearly golf related. And as to whether it’s constructive or not, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mike, not to belabor this, but this is the post of yours that struck me as being purely critical of George with no golf content whatsoever. At the end, you practically demand that he improve his writing/communication skills if he is to remain here. You once stated, incorrectly, that signatures must not contain URLs to commercial sites. You are again, IMO, exceeding the bounds of our requirements. Why not just get off his back and contribute constructively to golf? Bruce Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense. George: Do you ever READ what you write before you click the send button? Now, really: Make swings at knee level. What is this supposed to mean? Swing as if the ball is at knee level? Kneel down? What? And what, pray tell, is the difference between "many at ground level" and "many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you." Are not these last also at ground level? Oh, that’s right–what you wrote is confusing at best, and really doesn’t make any sense, does it? And when I’m trying to figure out the difference between knee, ear, and ground level, distinctions that don’t make any sense, somehow, some way, the problem is ME, not you? You fancy yourself as a world-class communicator, it seems to me. I don’t know who’s given you feedback that would have led you to this conclusion, should that in fact be how you perceive yourself, but I would suspect that the bloom is now off the rose. Criticize my credentials all you like, George; none of that will salve the wound of that post. What you wrote was gibberish. I’ve followed with some amusement your attempts at ingratiating yourself to the UK.SPORT.GOLF group. Isn’t it interesting that the only person you could get to respond to this "winter drills" post on USG was Felicity? (Don Doyle, you may be right–and I apologise for jumping the gun). Quite the lack of response there (and it’s no wonder), and now we get the same post here. And BTW, George: I challenge you or anyone else to go back and read the paragraph you wrote about "knee" and "left ear" and "ground level" and tell me it’s a model of clarity, or of even mediocre communicating. And note one more thing, George: I respond to what you write. I don’t have to drag issues of credentials into it, as you seem to deem necessary in responding to me. I respond to what you write! If you don’t like the fact that I point out these confusions, these inconsistencies, these impossible-to-follow instructions, then consider actually reading and editing what you write before you press the send key. Mike Dalecki <Nothing but more of the same inconsistent gibberish Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
– Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Response:
Mike, not to belabor this, but this is the post of yours that struck me as being purely critical of George with no golf content whatsoever. At the end, you practically demand that he improve his writing/communication skills if he is to remain here. You once stated, incorrectly, that signatures must not contain URLs to commercial sites. You are again, IMO, exceeding the bounds of our requirements. Why not just get off his back and contribute constructively to golf? Bruce – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense. George: Do you ever READ what you write before you click the send button? Now, really: Make swings at knee level. What is this supposed to mean? Swing as if the ball is at knee level? Kneel down? What? And what, pray tell, is the difference between "many at ground level" and "many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you." Are not these last also at ground level? Oh, that’s right–what you wrote is confusing at best, and really doesn’t make any sense, does it? And when I’m trying to figure out the difference between knee, ear, and ground level, distinctions that don’t make any sense, somehow, some way, the problem is ME, not you? You fancy yourself as a world-class communicator, it seems to me. I don’t know who’s given you feedback that would have led you to this conclusion, should that in fact be how you perceive yourself, but I would suspect that the bloom is now off the rose. Criticize my credentials all you like, George; none of that will salve the wound of that post. What you wrote was gibberish. I’ve followed with some amusement your attempts at ingratiating yourself to the UK.SPORT.GOLF group. Isn’t it interesting that the only person you could get to respond to this "winter drills" post on USG was Felicity? (Don Doyle, you may be right–and I apologise for jumping the gun). Quite the lack of response there (and it’s no wonder), and now we get the same post here. And BTW, George: I challenge you or anyone else to go back and read the paragraph you wrote about "knee" and "left ear" and "ground level" and tell me it’s a model of clarity, or of even mediocre communicating. And note one more thing, George: I respond to what you write. I don’t have to drag issues of credentials into it, as you seem to deem necessary in responding to me. I respond to what you write! If you don’t like the fact that I point out these confusions, these inconsistencies, these impossible-to-follow instructions, then consider actually reading and editing what you write before you press the send key. Mike Dalecki <Nothing but more of the same inconsistent gibberish Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
[...] George is perfectly entitled to write poorly Sure he is, as I’m entitled to point out the inconsistencies in his communications.
Fine, carry on. I just wanted to express my opinion, not convince you of anything, Mike. [...] but give him a break on his writing style. Aw, c’mon, Bruce. You cannot separate the two. Since the medium is a written one, pointing out the errors in such communication has to be part and parcel with addressing the "teaching" contained therein. The vast majority of people here do not have trouble with the written word. There are typos, grammatical mistakes (nobody is immune to that), and so on, but communication–with clarity–occurs.
[...] But isn’t that his problem…and prerogative? [...] Bruce, you have no trouble communicating. Perhaps you’d like to interpret his stuff.
[...] Sorry, but I don’t read it. It’s not readable. Again, that’s his privilege. He doesn’t need me to train him. Bruce Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
<SNIP Well, we’ll have to disagree on this one. Writing skills are not a prerequisite for posting to RSG.
Of course not. But if you are attempting to communicate, at least passable writing skills are required, are they not? I consider most of your replies to GH to be attacks as they are not in the least constructive and they have little do do with golf.
Au contraire. When my posts point out inconsistencies in what he’s written, and what he’s written has to do with golf, then they, too, are about golf. Further, about being constructive, we tried that approach once, with no success. There’s little evidence the man stops to consider what he’s written before he presses the send key. You’d think that, after banging his head against the wall so much, he might reconsider his location with regard to the wall. George is perfectly entitled to write poorly
Sure he is, as I’m entitled to point out the inconsistencies in his communications. and many people seem to enjoy his instruction.
More power to them. From my point of view, challenge his teachings if you must
Isn’t that what I was doing? My gosh, that paragraph I quoted from was unintelligible. Since that is his teaching, such as it is, then it’s a challenge to that teaching. If he cannot communicate clearly, then what he’s teaching isn’t what he thinks he’s teaching, is it? but give him a break on his writing style.
Aw, c’mon, Bruce. You cannot separate the two. Since the medium is a written one, pointing out the errors in such communication has to be part and parcel with addressing the "teaching" contained therein. The vast majority of people here do not have trouble with the written word. There are typos, grammatical mistakes (nobody is immune to that), and so on, but communication–with clarity–occurs. I can just imagine what some newbie might do, trying to interpret the stuff he writes. Imagine such a person, having tried to fathom what he’d written in the paragraph I pointed out, swinging thousands of times with the clubhead at knee level, either by shortening up the grip that much, or doing it on his/her knees. Or guessing from "opposite your left ear in front of you" as opposed to "ground level." Now, at one level, I couldn’t care less what a newbie does. If they want to follow George, that’s their right. But since this is a golf discussion group, and George advances advice that is patently ridiculous on its face, then it’s more than reasonable to point that out. Frankly, I was a newbie once, and I appreciated the help I got from people here, not only in terms of direct advice, but the arguments about who I should pay attention to and who not. Bruce, you have no trouble communicating. Perhaps you’d like to interpret his stuff. Or, just don’t read him and help reduce the volume of garbage here.
Trash and treasure. My posts are on point and on topic. Mike Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Response:
Attack spelling errors? Never. Point out inconsistency in writing, in logic, in reasoning? Sure! If you hold yourself up as an expert, then you’d better be clear; crystal clear. Bruce, what he wrote was gibberish. I pointed it out. If he doesn’t want that kind of thing to occur, maybe he should consider what it is he’s writing more carefully, and perhaps he should even edit it a bit, or ask someone to review it before he posts it. Mike Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense. Mike, it seems to me that _you_ attack George constantly and at every opportunity. Your last post in this thread was nothing more than an attack on his writing style of all things. If he is not selling product, why not cut him some slack? I just believe people have a right to be treated fairly, even in RSG. This is a golf discussion group and if he discusses golf you are still not satisfied, apparently. Just as it is poor form to correct spelling errors, I feel it is equally bad form to condemn an individual’s writing style. That is not a requirement for participation here. Why not do George and yourself–not to mention ALL of us–a big favor and just skip his posts if they upset you so much? If nothing else, go back and read your own posts from this point of view. You will see that you are on a witch hunt. Bruce Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
–
Response:
Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense.
Mike, it seems to me that _you_ attack George constantly and at every opportunity. Your last post in this thread was nothing more than an attack on his writing style of all things. If he is not selling product, why not cut him some slack? I just believe people have a right to be treated fairly, even in RSG. This is a golf discussion group and if he discusses golf you are still not satisfied, apparently. Just as it is poor form to correct spelling errors, I feel it is equally bad form to condemn an individual’s writing style. That is not a requirement for participation here. Why not do George and yourself–not to mention ALL of us–a big favor and just skip his posts if they upset you so much? If nothing else, go back and read your own posts from this point of view. You will see that you are on a witch hunt. Bruce Member, RSG Secret Inner Clique RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
Your failure TO access readily available support for these drills [including TGChannel and Golf Magazine's recognition of their author as one of the top 100 teachers], If you’re referring to David Lee I got news for you, Jack Kuykendall is also a top 100 teacher, shows how flawed the rating system is.
I agree with the implications of that statement, but in defense of TGC, when David Lee appeared there about 2 years ago, I am informed that his broadcast was the most requested for rebroadcast in the history of the channel up to that point, and that was quite impressive, as an aside. and the deliberate exclusion of them, is a disservice to those whom you would attempt to influence here. The drills [in slightly different form] have been published twice in Golf Mag in the last two years. Their author has been called "perhaps the greatest golf teacher/genius who ever lived" by Chi Chi Rodriguez, and by not a few others. Could it be because Chi Chi’s nephew taught Gravity Golf at one of David Lee’s schools?
Chicken and egg: if that is true it certainly confirms the point: why would he perfect the drills [else he would not be teaching at one of David's schools] which are incredibly demanding if he were not "sold" on the "system"? VERY few people reach a level TO be allowed to teach in his name! And as for the drills themselves, I defy anyone to perfect his drills even moderately, and then go play golf based on what they have taught you and not come screaming home with your "WOW, Mom, look — no hands" level of achievement! They are perfectissimo in their skill-giving in the quickest time. Their success is precisely why someone such as Gabrielle Reece would commit themselves to him/his drills. And she is just one. World class athletes retired from other sports have inundated his office with requests (something over 300 a year ago – I’m not up to date with current figures) to be included in his current program. He has had to prioritize who he WILL take…But what do they know, right? Incidentally, those who DO play at the level of the PGA Tour and others are among the most talented golf athletes (pick the top 500 of them) in the world. Sufficiency to play on tour is not the only standard for rating one’s instruction; 500 golfers at tour level out of a worldwide golf population of some 40 million or so (? – I only am told of the 20 million in the US), is an infinitessimal ratio. Tour level play involves a lot more than golf skill. And truth be told, David could care less whether his "system" gains fame; when GOLFERS swing well without muscular contriving, with unconscious/animal mindlessness and simplicity, as ALL who play at the highest level already do, then things are good. Like I often say, I don’t care or remember who taught me math; I know math and that is all that counts. So unconscious good mechanics are what counts, not who the teacher was who put you on the right path… There was a long string about him here not more than 1 1/2 months ago. Anyone needing backup of his contribution need only reread the posts here on Gravity Golf and David Lee, using the search function on past posts. Can you name me any top 50 touring pro who takes lessons from David Lee? Can you tell us who these others are who considers him a genius?
Jack Nicklaus was the first name to endorse his material publicly. Include Rocky Thompson. Chi Chi. And just about everyone who HAS been to him as I have, but of course what does anyone else know who is not a tour player, right? George
Response:
Hi Mike, sorry..the words, "pedantic", "uncharitable", "personal", "intellectual bullying", "relentless persuit"…come to mind Boils down to: make a million golf swings with each hand alone, Well. If I do 10,000 per day, for 100 days, that’ll put me at one million at just about the start of golf season here. Lessee….should only take me four or five hours per day.
I took George’s form of intentional exaggeration a means of emphasising the fact that you need to do it an awful lot for it to become ingrained? Do many of them without any golf balls at knee level, ?!? This is fabulous! What on earth is everyone so excited about with regard to these posts? I defy anyone to explain what it means to do this drill without any golf balls at knee level.
I knew what he meant straight away to be honest…is that because he’s given me a similar drill in another thread? many at ground level, and many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you, standing fairly erect. I further defy anyone to explain how to do this drill with "many at ground level" and especially with "many with wiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you."
Well, again I thought I knew precisely what he wanted the reader to try – straight away! I find it diffoicult to disagree with you and the way you choose to pick away at someone else words with the surgical precision of a lawyer – that’s obviously one of your strengths. When I was a humble student at uni attending lectures/seminars and working on assignments, dissertations etc given by highly intelligent people like yourself… I had to do my utmost to be as precise and unambiguous as possible….I used to pour over essays etc…it wasn’t easy for me….one of my weaknesses…but I usually got there in the end; I had the time….now I just try to relax…sorry, BTW, if I post gibberish; I know I do…it’s quicker… 
This is why I’m amused by the people who write in support for what George writes. I can’t imagine what they’re getting out of this, but I’m certainly supportive of their right to believe there’s something to it.
I firmly believe that there is until someone objectively and dispassionately explains why it isn’t. BTW have you ever been in a debating society or the like? "Ok kids, we’re going to conduct a heated debate…..hands up all those who think cannabis should be legalised…ok right, I want those against to argue for, and those for to argue against…those that aren’t interested can have fun goading and heckling.." :-D Oh what fun Uni was …noddy land… Funny thing you know…you *both* seem like really nice guys in private e-mail.. Massive respect gentlemen, — Felicity Lodge PS It’s Xmas..why don’t we all take it in turns to say something *really* nice about each other? Who wants to go last?
Response:
Ah, George, the personal attacks come again, as an attempt to distract from the fact that you write things that don’t make any sense. George: Do you ever READ what you write before you click the send button? Now, really: Make swings at knee level. What is this supposed to mean? Swing as if the ball is at knee level? Kneel down? What? And what, pray tell, is the difference between "many at ground level" and "many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you." Are not these last also at ground level? Oh, that’s right–what you wrote is confusing at best, and really doesn’t make any sense, does it? And when I’m trying to figure out the difference between knee, ear, and ground level, distinctions that don’t make any sense, somehow, some way, the problem is ME, not you? You fancy yourself as a world-class communicator, it seems to me. I don’t know who’s given you feedback that would have led you to this conclusion, should that in fact be how you perceive yourself, but I would suspect that the bloom is now off the rose. Criticize my credentials all you like, George; none of that will salve the wound of that post. What you wrote was gibberish. I’ve followed with some amusement your attempts at ingratiating yourself to the UK.SPORT.GOLF group. Isn’t it interesting that the only person you could get to respond to this "winter drills" post on USG was Felicity? (Don Doyle, you may be right–and I apologise for jumping the gun). Quite the lack of response there (and it’s no wonder), and now we get the same post here. And BTW, George: I challenge you or anyone else to go back and read the paragraph you wrote about "knee" and "left ear" and "ground level" and tell me it’s a model of clarity, or of even mediocre communicating. And note one more thing, George: I respond to what you write. I don’t have to drag issues of credentials into it, as you seem to deem necessary in responding to me. I respond to what you write! If you don’t like the fact that I point out these confusions, these inconsistencies, these impossible-to-follow instructions, then consider actually reading and editing what you write before you press the send key. Mike Dalecki
<Nothing but more of the same inconsistent gibberish Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Response:
George, thanks for the info. Our winters are usually about 6 months long, so I’m willing to try out anything at least once to keep my game in shape, however pathetic it may be. Take care. Except it’s a bit presumptious. I’m sitting here in my shorts sweating. 
Oh, heh, I meant like, "our" as in like us up here in deadmonton…er…Edmonton, AB, Canada. And the thought of you sweating in your shorts is enough to send shivers through my body. just kidding, Steve
Response:
Your failure TO access readily available support for these drills [including TGChannel and Golf Magazine's recognition of their author as one of the top 100 teachers],
If you’re referring to David Lee I got news for you, Jack Kuykendall is also a top 100 teacher, shows how flawed the rating system is. and the deliberate exclusion of them, is a disservice to those whom you would attempt to influence here. The drills [in slightly different form] have been published twice in Golf Mag in the last two years. Their author has been called "perhaps the greatest golf teacher/genius who ever lived" by Chi Chi Rodriguez, and by not a few others.
Could it be because Chi Chi’s nephew taught Gravity Golf at one of David Lee’s schools? Can you name me any top 50 touring pro who takes lessons from David Lee? Can you tell us who these others are who considers him a genius? David Laville, G.S.E.M. Authorized Instructor Of The Golfing Machine
Response:
Not to take sides with anyone, but I must say I’ve done more to improve my golf swing (only a small portion of the overall game) with a mirror and slow motion swings than I have with 10,000 range balls. Not to mention the abuse I’ve saved my body. In addition, "Extraordinary Golf" and "Inner Golf" have helped tremendously. I agree with George to the extent that you don’t need a ball to learn golf swing mechanics. The more I study the *awareness* approach to learning, the more I realize that the presence of a ball tends to direct your conscious attention to IT, rather than your body. I had learned to focus on the ball so much that I’d forgotten about the target. Kind of like looking intently at the basketball as I dribble, and then throwing the ball in the air with no idea where the hoop is, or even IF it is! We tend to spend hour after hour on the range ingraining bad habits, yet we expect that we should be able to talk to ourselves during a round and have the problem correct itself. What a joyful, maddening game.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boils down to: make a million golf swings with each hand alone, Well. If I do 10,000 per day, for 100 days, that’ll put me at one million at just about the start of golf season here. Lessee….should only take me four or five hours per day. Do many of them without any golf balls at knee level, ?!? This is fabulous! What on earth is everyone so excited about with regard to these posts? I defy anyone to explain what it means to do this drill without any golf balls at knee level. many at ground level, and many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you, standing fairly erect. I further defy anyone to explain how to do this drill with "many at ground level" and especially with "many with wiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you." This is why I’m amused by the people who write in support for what George writes. I can’t imagine what they’re getting out of this, but I’m certainly supportive of their right to believe there’s something to it. But then again, maybe they don’t believe any of it; maybe they, like I, just think it’s funny. Mike Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Response:
Boils down to: make a million golf swings with each hand alone,
Well. If I do 10,000 per day, for 100 days, that’ll put me at one million at just about the start of golf season here. Lessee….should only take me four or five hours per day. Do many of them without any golf balls at knee level,
?!? This is fabulous! What on earth is everyone so excited about with regard to these posts? I defy anyone to explain what it means to do this drill without any golf balls at knee level. many at ground level, and many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you, standing fairly erect.
I further defy anyone to explain how to do this drill with "many at ground level" and especially with "many with wiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you." This is why I’m amused by the people who write in support for what George writes. I can’t imagine what they’re getting out of this, but I’m certainly supportive of their right to believe there’s something to it. But then again, maybe they don’t believe any of it; maybe they, like I, just think it’s funny. Mike Mike Dalecki–Charter Member, RSG Clique I do not patronize spammers! Help keep RSG clean. Expect the same etiquette from me on RSG as on the golf course. RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/daleckim.htm
Response:
Boils down to: make a million golf swings with each hand alone, Well. If I do 10,000 per day, for 100 days, that’ll put me at one million at just about the start of golf season here. Lessee….should only take me four or five hours per day. Do many of them without any golf balls at knee level, ?!? This is fabulous! What on earth is everyone so excited about with regard to these posts? I defy anyone to explain what it means to do this drill without any golf balls at knee level.
Is it intentional to ignore the common sense of the meaning of this? to swing with the clubhead at knee level or at ground level? many at ground level, and many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you, standing fairly
erect. Standing erect — you know, with your back almost straight up vertical-like. In front of your left ear is not in front of your right toe, for instance. You can tell what is in front of your left ear by putting something out in front of your nose and then moving it a couple inches to the left… Ask a child for help if this is confusing. I further defy anyone to explain how to do this drill with "many at ground level" and especially with "many with wiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you."
Many swings; you know, more than a few. With whiffle balls mean so that you can hit them with the golf club — you know — like "whack, whack…" stuff like that. This is why I’m amused by the people who write in support for what George writes. I can’t imagine what they’re getting out of this, but I’m certainly supportive of their right to believe there’s something to it. But then again, maybe they don’t believe any of it; maybe they, like I, just think it’s funny. Mike
The ignorance displayed by the writer of the above bespeaks to the depth his ability to tell others what might be helpful. Sociology IS your subject, Mike. Golf is obviously not. The genius behind these drills has been recognized by the greatest golfers in the world. I believe him and them before I believe someone whose game is in the high 80s because he is a good chipper, and who has been playing lately for a couple years of Wisconsin-long summers. If you are giving advice to people reading here at rsg, it is only fair that you show what your background is in golf when you say you are amused by such things and that it is just funny. I thought that one of the requirements for Ph.Ds. was to use intelligence in your work and to respect truth. Your failure TO access readily available support for these drills [including TGChannel and Golf Magazine's recognition of their author as one of the top 100 teachers], and the deliberate exclusion of them, is a disservice to those whom you would attempt to influence here. The drills [in slightly different form] have been published twice in Golf Mag in the last two years. Their author has been called "perhaps the greatest golf teacher/genius who ever lived" by Chi Chi Rodriguez, and by not a few others. The inherent common sense of the MESSage of the post speaks for itself, even were there nothing at all elsewhere to recommend the drills. Thank you for letting everyone know just how much to respect what you have to say here about golf. George
Response:
George, thanks for the info. Our winters are usually about 6 months long, so I’m willing to try out anything at least once to keep my game in shape, however pathetic it may be. Take care. Steve P.S. Don’t let the others bog you down. Bottom line is, if they don’t like it, they don’t have to read it. I just don’t understand what all the fuss is about.
Thank you Steve, and you Brad (Transition move post), for your notes. George
Response:
George, thanks for the info. Our winters are usually about 6 months long, so I’m willing to try out anything at least once to keep my game in shape, however pathetic it may be. Take care.
Except it’s a bit presumptious. I’m sitting here in my shorts sweating. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
The process of internalizing athletic exertions and motions goes on in deep recesses of the cerebellum of the brain. Our first experiences of this process include learning to walk, and learning to ride a bike. Once internalized, we animals take for granted and are totally unconscious of the mechanisms of balance, exertion, and adjustment that continue to occur without any effort on our own part to work harmoniously for us for those functions and many other physical activities. The same process can be tapped into, and ultimately it must be, for successful and consistent golf mechanics. This internalization can be done by drills that force the same brain mechanisms to work for us, and when we do drills that are constructed to *force* the best mechanics [by magnifying the errors and weaknesses of incorrect/inefficient dynamic forces] in our motions, we can greatly profit from doing them even when we can’t "hit balls". David Lee and others advocate drills that do, in various degrees of effectiveness, eliminate poor and inefficient exertions and motions, and act to internalize the least effortful way to produce accuracy and power in a golf swing. One of the most "internalized" golf swings in the world is that of Colin Montgomerie. His absolutely effortless, repeatable, "unconscious" and powerful swing always has amazed me for its apparent mindlessness — the epitome of the fulfillment of internalization. So, for anyone interested in things to do during the winter to improve your game, there are excellent ways to do just that without having to hit a single real golf ball and without having to leave your garage or home. While setting goals for 2001, you can get a leg up, a head start, and a LOT more benefit than you might realize will come from these drills. Understand that these beautiful thoughts come to you from the Sun State, Flaahhda, US of A. These drills are used by many instructors to get their pupils to teach both what exertions are appropriate, and which ones are NOT, and not from books, but empirically! Boils down to: make a million golf swings with each hand alone, and make half of them while standing on just your left (front) foot! Do many of them without any golf balls at knee level, many at ground level, and many with whiffle balls opposite your left ear in front of you, standing fairly erect. Do them with the use of body rotation alone, as opposed to arm/shoulder or arm/wrist effort, where the turning body pulls the shoulders which pull the arms which pull the butt of the club which pulls the shaft which pulls the head of the club. Try to eliminate any sense of muscling of the club. The drills are basically the THROWING of the clubhead by rapidly rotating your torso. You canNOT muscle the ball inappropriately when you swing left hand alone, and, like learning to ride a bike, you learn the subtleties of balance, adjustment, minute controls etc. BY RIDING THE BIKE, not by "reading about riding a bike". With single arm drills, the elimination of the assistance of the other hand isolates the essence of what works and doesn’t, and the cerebellum sorts out all kinds of stuff unknown to your conscious and contriving (interfering!) thought processes. Seriously, if you go out and just swing a lot left hand alone, and then right hand alone, mostly on the left foot alone, and sometimes whack whiffle balls, you will discover refinements of timing, stance, posture, swing plane [experiment a lot with getting the most vertical clubhead path you can with the most erect posture that you can make to work], body rotation, impact control, depth control, etc. that you have not perhaps experienced with the usual "two handed golf". Two handed golf permits just too many compensatory adjusting that can mask inefficiencies and give false feedback as to "how good you are". The elimination of the extra hand "crutch" kind of exposes the weaknesses and forces the best mechanics available to the "handicapped" [one-armed] golfer. A seriously important benefit of standing on the left foot alone will be the acclimitization of the body to the left side pivot and discover that waiting for weight to get ONTO the left foot for all the rotary motion of the swing makes a lot of sense. The body will learn HOW gravity WILL work to provide energy for the rotary turn, as opposed to "leg/buttock muscle". When you swing right hand alone, be sure the whole right side PULLS the arm and club; do not use just the arm. Put feet rather close together for the drill and open your left toe; your body will soon flow through its appropriate pivot effortlessly, and you can actually generate enough momentum to spin a full circle if your left foot is allowed to slip in its around rotation (leather soles on a wood floor). Anyway, it is one of the quickest ways to for your BODY to learn good feelings and to learn that WRONG exertions are not only unnecessary, but harmful. As it says above, the kid on the bike, or the baby learning to walk, are going through EXACTLY THE SAME process in internalizing their mechanics of biking or walking. So they end up perfect walkers and perfect bikers not through just a cognitive process, but an instinctive and animal one, a process that for good golf really HAS to be pretty well internalized to keep you from disaster in playing situations where the mind is taken up with the business of the shot at hand. FWIW. I know you are all just so eager to go out in the rain/cold/snow to do this…. If you do it for 10 minutes a day for the whole off-season, you will have learned more than any instruction could have taught you because your own body is the best indicator of "what fits you", not someone else’s estimate. And the exertions [causes] which you come to incorporate are not visible to anyone else — only their effects are seen, and as such are not teachable anyway. Just as you learned to ride a bike by yourself (inside your own brain), you will also learn to swing a golf club by yourself in the same manner; there are really no shortcuts. By doing THESE drills, you DO force your own mechanisms to sort out the relative value of the various options. And they will do so as effectively as they taught you to walk. FWIW. I hope that this may be of help to some who would like to take the bullet train to the next level of proficiency and to make the most of the off-season. George Hibbard
Response:
George, thanks for the info. Our winters are usually about 6 months long, so I’m willing to try out anything at least once to keep my game in shape, however pathetic it may be. Take care. Steve P.S. Don’t let the others bog you down. Bottom line is, if they don’t like it, they don’t have to read it. I just don’t understand what all the fuss is about.