Question:
I feel that you misread what I have written. To put it more simply. In the UK there are two ways to play golf namely:- 1… Casual golf when you play with others and decide on your own methods of play. [...] 2… Competition golf when you abide by the rules of golf as far as you are knowledgeable enough to do so. [...] Absolutely nothing to do with lame claiming. Just merely showing that there are other forms of handicapping world-wide, other than the ones that you and I use in our methods of play. [...]
Not to slight anyone here at all, but most North Americans have little experience in handicapping methods other than the USGA’s. The result is that we tend to respond within a narrow perspective. I suppose that is human nature. Sometimes our replies are pretty blunt and, although I would like to suggest that the Europeans and Australians (and others?) take our sometimes hard words with a grain of salt, I think you already do that…and amazingly well. I lived in Germany for six months and I have seen other handicapping systems first hand. At most clubs I visited, you needed proof of a 28 handicap or better just to tee it up. Over here, you just need to plunk down enough dollars. 
Personally, I enjoy reading posts about others’ experiences and yours, Pat, was very interesting. Bruce RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
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I guess you still cling to the notion that people are somehow wanting to cheat their handicap DOWN, when the fact is the real problem is people cheating their handicap UP. Rolling makes virtually no difference to my score. The odd time I put it in a divot, I usually get very conservative and go for par/bogie, which is what I will get on a hole anyways. The gimmies are alomost meaningless. If you want me to take all day over putts, make me putt out. I see no difference to my scores. If you want to be pedantic about rules, or make some holier than thou claim, go ahead, but it is a lame claim.
I feel that you misread what I have written. To put it more simply. In the UK there are two ways to play golf namely:- 1… Casual golf when you play with others and decide on your own methods of play. If you decide to play for a couple of pounds against your buddies then you will have a handicap to allow you to do that but **nothing** you do in that round, good or bad, will be allowed by the handicap authorities which will alter your handicap. So if you play on your own and roll the ball then it doesn’t matter a damn. It will usually be played under a match play format too. 2… Competition golf when you abide by the rules of golf as far as you are knowledgeable enough to do so. In this one then **every** card that you submit, good or bad or no return, will be taken into account to affect your handicap. This will always be a stroke play format and it doesn’t matter a damn if I am ‘holier than thou’ or a ‘pedant’ because the guy who I play with is the final determining factor and he certainly will not sign the card if I decide to roll the ball or knock away a minimal length putt deciding it was a gimmee. They all count! And I repeat, no player will allow me to get away with it. Absolutely nothing to do with lame claiming. Just merely showing that there are other forms of handicapping world-wide, other than the ones that you and I use in our methods of play. No doubt the Australian one is somewhat different to both of these and in all of them there will be good and bad points. And "yes", even though you may think otherwise, with our method of handicapping there are those who wish to cheat their handicaps down. They are mostly lower handicap golfers who wish to retain or improve their handicap so that they may continue to play in tournaments which demand a low handicap and do not wish to be balloted out by virtue of a higher handicap. — Regards Pat Williams Give me golf clubs, sunshine, fresh air and a beautiful foursomes partner and you can keep the golf clubs, sunshine and fresh air!…Jack Benny
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I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…<clip If you are inside the leather, pick it up! If you are playing in front of me, DEFINATELY pick it up! <clip
I agree…if you’re in front of me and we aren’t playing each other…pick it up!!! If we’re playing for money….putt it out. "Someone likes every shot" bk Please: no spam, off topic, or crossposts as explained in the RSG FAQ: at http://ttsoft.com/thor/rsggolf.html
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I guess you still cling to the notion that people are somehow wanting to cheat their handicap DOWN, when the fact is the real problem is people cheating their handicap UP. Rolling makes virtually no difference to my score. The odd time I put it in a divot, I usually get very conservative and go for par/bogie, which is what I will get on a hole anyways. The gimmies are alomost meaningless. If you want me to take all day over putts, make me putt out. I see no difference to my scores. If you want to be pedantic about rules, or make some holier than thou claim, go ahead, but it is a lame claim. There is a problem, however, for a lot of players who cannot score well unless they roll the ball, which is a different thing altogether. These golfers need to not roll the ball and learn to play the ball as it lies to develop the knowledge that rolling makes no real difference. Rob Rob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As one from outside the US I find your note above confusing. I am not trying to be at all provocative, and I understand that we play following different handicapping systems, but how a score that contains gimmees and rolling, perhaps on every hole played, can be used for handicap purposes is a puzzle. Our CONGU handicapping system in the UK allows us to enter cards for handicapping purposes only when a competition is involved (generally). Usually that is once a week (or perhaps two) during the playing season (March to October). During competitions rolling is an immediate two stroke penalty per event and gimmees, if not corrected, are DQ automatic. Thus our handicaps are a reflection of golf as the ball lies whereas our casual golf can be played under any system that the group agrees. To give you an idea I will be out this afternoon and because it is winter we take our golf balls off the fairway and place then in the semi rough to supposedly help protect the course. But handicaps cannot be affected whatever we score. On Saturday we will have a competition which is played under a much stricter format but because it is not a recognised competition and is under winter rules then still handicaps are not affected. We must have what is termed a ‘qualifying’ competition for handicaps to be touched. You can see that we play under a much more regimented system than yourselves but in general I feel this produces a *real* handicap which is a more stable and not so volatile as the one under which you play. Thus you can see how I puzzle over the allowance of gimmees etc. and still the ability to use every card, regardless of casual golf or competition golf, that you produce, no matter how, to give you a handicap at all never mind 10.8! There has got to be good sides and bad to both systems and the points I raise are just discussion material. The best and most advantageous thing about handicapping in the US to my mind is Dean Knutt’s slope system of portable handicapping. Our English golf union refuses to go along with it when all travelling golfers need it to compete fairly at other courses. Scotland, Ireland and Wales would go ahead with it but not the EGU! Enjoy your golf. — Regards
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. When I am playing for practice…..I like to putt everything…that’s what practice is…. When I am playing tournament golf …I always putt everything…that’s what golf is….. BUT…. when I’m playing a relaxing 4 ball with a few of my buddies and just enjoying a beautiful evening or afternoon on the course…..who gives a rat’s ass??? If they want to play inside the leather…fine with me…I enjoy it just as much…… In fact, I’m not sure I would want to play a "relaxing 4 ball" with someone that was so anal about the rules that they couldn’t play "inside the leather" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex)
Lorry, If you are inside the leather, pick it up! If you are playing in front of me, DEFINATELY pick it up! For handicapping purposes there is not a problem. If you review the USGA (and RCGA) Handicap System Manual (Section 4-1) they both state that for "unfinished holes" you should record the score you "most likely would have made". As long as the conceded putt is reasonable, there is no problem. The USGA Handicap System Manual is available online at www.usga.org if you would like to read the relevant section yourself. Cheers and good golf, John D. Hutton Northern Systems Inc. (www.northernsystems.com) Quality Golf Software Products Since 1987 Handicap Data : http://www.ehandicap.net/cgi-bin/hcapstat.exe?CID=nsi&GID=JOHN&SBN=OF…
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If as you say you play 95% of your rounds in golf competitions and follow your principles (which I am sure that you do) then by your own definition you must be overbearing! Otherwise you are not playing to the rules. But then in the very next sentence you include yourself in the "us" who believe that you can follow the rules "closely" and still enjoy the game. You *must* in your competitions play the game *exactly* to the rules (as you best understand or remember them) otherwise you don’t play *real* golf. And, once again, I’m sure that you do. So perhaps a bit of re-thinking?
Look, I agree with you. My comment about "sticklers for the Rules" was more aimed at Lorry’s social rounds, when strict adherence, such as *exact* drop points or one club measurements may not be that important, as long as the general letter of the Rule is followed. If it’s an inch more than a club length, do you really have to measure it exactly in this type of play? However, even in my competition rounds I was thinking of: 1. Players, even in stroke play, who want to measure to the millimetre which putt is closest to the hole to determine who’s away. We normally ask other fellow-competitors for a quick adjudication, or someone takes the initative and just putts. If we followed Rule 10-2b to the letter then I guess we should actually decide "by lot", but I can’t remember ever having done it. 2. Arguments about the *exact* point of crossing of a lateral hazard (as if you can really work it out when you saw the ball enter the hazard with a slice from 100 metres away). The same applies to "directly in line with the hole" when you take, for instance, an unplayable ball behind thick vegetation. 3. Whether a scratch in the ground was made by a rabbit (burrowing animal) or not. If it looked remotely like a rabbit scrape, I’d give them relief. 4. There are also situations where the Rules themselves recognise "as near as possible", and pedantic argument is neither here nor there. So perhaps being totally pedantic about the rules rather than following the spirit is more what I meant. My concern is also speed of play. BTW, I am not in the habit of breaking Rule 1-3. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
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If you have a standing rule with these opponents that anything inside the leather is automatically conceded by the other side, so what? All perfectly within the rules of golf.
No, that’s not correct. You cannot agree ahead of time to concede putts; each stroke must be conceded individually by your opponents. If you agree to concede all putts within the leather ahead of time, you are breaking the rule about players agreeing to "waive" rules, which is so important, it’s covered under Rule 1. (actually, 1-3). OtherKevin
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At the end of the day, scores posted for handicap purposes when balls are rolled and othe ‘adjustments’ are made tend to lower one’s handicap. Then, when the ball is played down and the opponent is one who always plays his ball down, the player using relaxed rules is at a double disadvantage. Firstly, his handicap overstates is actual ability, so he’s giving a stroke or two to his opponent. Secondly, when his ball finds a divot, he’s left with a shot he’s not been confronted with regularly: that’s maybe worth another stroke or two. The punishment is fitting, isn’t it?
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I belong to a club and play about 95% of my rounds in club competitions or tournaments where the Rules of Golf must be adhered to. I can’t do any of the things I mentioned in my first paragraph without them counting (either a one or two stroke penalty or, where I don’t correct it, disqualification). I know my score will be a *real* score, played under the Rules of Golf, and I’m not deluding anyone. I’m not trying to be one of the moralisers, but simply pointing to the reality. Some people are real sticklers for the Rules to the point of overbearance. Some of us happen to believe you can follow the Rules closely and still enjoy the game.
Some kind of conflict in these last two paragraphs, Colin, particularly the last. If as you say you play 95% of your rounds in golf competitions and follow your principles (which I am sure that you do) then by your own definition you must be overbearing! Otherwise you are not playing to the rules. But then in the very next sentence you include yourself in the "us" who believe that you can follow the rules "closely" and still enjoy the game. You *must* in your competitions play the game *exactly* to the rules (as you best understand or remember them) otherwise you don’t play *real* golf. And, once again, I’m sure that you do. So perhaps a bit of re-thinking? By the way. I am old enough and lucky(?) enough to remember seeing "The Don" bowled out by Eric Hollies in his last innings for a duck. 99.94 is a wonderful average but just a few runs would have put him over the century barrier. What a batsman. — Regards Pat Williams Give me golf clubs, sunshine, fresh air and a beautiful foursomes partner and you can keep the golf clubs, sunshine and fresh air!…Jack Benny
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At the end of the day, scores posted for handicap purposes when balls are rolled and othe ‘adjustments’ are made tend to lower one’s handicap. Then, when the ball is played down and the opponent is one who always plays his ball down, the player using relaxed rules is at a double disadvantage. Firstly, his handicap overstates is actual ability, so he’s giving a stroke or two to his opponent. Secondly, when his ball finds a divot, he’s left with a shot he’s not been confronted with regularly: that’s maybe worth another stroke or two. The punishment is fitting, isn’t it?
brilliant post. i don’t see why so many people get so upset about gimmes and improving lies. the people that do that are reverse-sandbaggers, ie their handicap is probably lower than it should be. those reverse-sandbaggers are the people you want to compete against in net events. charlie
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The punishment is fitting, isn’t it?
Indeed. But to go back to my original post, "claiming you hit 84" can be purely an act of ego, totally divorced from any handicap requirements. Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
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There is a reverse psychology to gimmie putts. I used to be the absolute worst putter in our ladies group. I was determined to improve, which I did. Today, I’m one of the best putters in our club. My friends have even named me "Pickup Girl" (that’s good, pick it up). Now they all give me putts from just about everywhere because they don’t want me practicing the short ones (hoping perhaps I’ll miss some of them in a tournament) and also maybe giving them a stroke on handicap. I just practice when they aren’t looking. Jane
Hey, I like to play "inside the leather". I changed to an extra long putter with a 1" grip at the top. Now anything closer than 60" is "inside the leather". That’ll teach ‘em! Pick it up – that’s a gimmie! ;-0 Seriously though, I agree with you about it for "casual" rounds. Jerry
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I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex)
Yeah…it figures you’d have a sissy suit… (g) ]]]Z[[[
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<snip My friends have even named me "Pickup Girl" <snip Jane
The male chauvinist pig locked deep within my soul is trying his best to force me to type a sexist, semi-humorous comment about this (and, incidentally, he also wants your phone number). I hope you’ll be impressed by the fact that I have the will power to resist… — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com Basic Clubmaking Info & Memphis Area Golf Course Guide RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/reedj.htm
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Colin….. I obviously don’t have any problem with people who take drops at OOB, pick up 3 footers, throw the ball out of the bush or take preferred lies…as for their score…I just hope they enter it in their hcp…. when playing a tourney or such, their hcp will be artificially low…..and that’s good for me…especially if we have a little side bet going…yippeee…..Lorry
I generally agree with you. I count ALL my rounds for my handicap, including those where we roll the ball and where we have some rather generous gimmies. Interesting that there seems to be no correlation between whether the score counts as one of the top 10 of the last 20 and rolling/gimmies. If I suck, I will shoot 85+ and the score will not count, regardless. If I am playing well, I will shoot 85-, regardless. The scores are real, and reflect my level of play, a 10.8 index at the moment. I know that rolling the ball has no effect on my scores, and I doubt that gimmies would even have an effect of 0.1 on my handicap. In any event, if someone wants to make a big issue of it, they need to make an investment in their opinion. Otherwise the opinion has no real value; just a load of hot air. People who artificially lower their handicap are rather foolish, as it is an edge to have an accurate handicap (and dishonest to have an inacurately high handicap). Rob
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I generally agree with you. I count ALL my rounds for my handicap, including those where we roll the ball and where we have some rather generous gimmies. Interesting that there seems to be no correlation between whether the score counts as one of the top 10 of the last 20 and rolling/gimmies. If I suck, I will shoot 85+ and the score will not count, regardless. If I am playing well, I will shoot 85-, regardless. The scores are real, and reflect my level of play, a 10.8 index at the moment. I know that rolling the ball has no effect on my scores, and I doubt that gimmies would even have an effect of 0.1 on my handicap. In any event, if someone wants to make a big issue of it, they need to make an investment in their opinion. Otherwise the opinion has no real value; just a load of hot air. People who artificially lower their handicap are rather foolish, as it is an edge to have an accurate handicap (and dishonest to have an inacurately high handicap).
As one from outside the US I find your note above confusing. I am not trying to be at all provocative, and I understand that we play following different handicapping systems, but how a score that contains gimmees and rolling, perhaps on every hole played, can be used for handicap purposes is a puzzle. Our CONGU handicapping system in the UK allows us to enter cards for handicapping purposes only when a competition is involved (generally). Usually that is once a week (or perhaps two) during the playing season (March to October). During competitions rolling is an immediate two stroke penalty per event and gimmees, if not corrected, are DQ automatic. Thus our handicaps are a reflection of golf as the ball lies whereas our casual golf can be played under any system that the group agrees. To give you an idea I will be out this afternoon and because it is winter we take our golf balls off the fairway and place then in the semi rough to supposedly help protect the course. But handicaps cannot be affected whatever we score. On Saturday we will have a competition which is played under a much stricter format but because it is not a recognised competition and is under winter rules then still handicaps are not affected. We must have what is termed a ‘qualifying’ competition for handicaps to be touched. You can see that we play under a much more regimented system than yourselves but in general I feel this produces a *real* handicap which is a more stable and not so volatile as the one under which you play. Thus you can see how I puzzle over the allowance of gimmees etc. and still the ability to use every card, regardless of casual golf or competition golf, that you produce, no matter how, to give you a handicap at all never mind 10.8! There has got to be good sides and bad to both systems and the points I raise are just discussion material. The best and most advantageous thing about handicapping in the US to my mind is Dean Knutt’s slope system of portable handicapping. Our English golf union refuses to go along with it when all travelling golfers need it to compete fairly at other courses. Scotland, Ireland and Wales would go ahead with it but not the EGU! Enjoy your golf. — Regards Pat Williams Give me golf clubs, sunshine, fresh air and a beautiful foursomes partner and you can keep the golf clubs, sunshine and fresh air!…Jack Benny
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I’m sure the lovely Mrs. Cartpath appreciates your restraint … lol
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip My friends have even named me "Pickup Girl" <snip Jane The male chauvinist pig locked deep within my soul is trying his best to force me to type a sexist, semi-humorous comment about this (and, incidentally, he also wants your phone number). I hope you’ll be impressed by the fact that I have the will power to resist… — Joe Cartpath – www.joecartpath.com Basic Clubmaking Info & Memphis Area Golf Course Guide RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/reedj.htm
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Its easy enough, always play a provisional off the tee if you hit one in the trees etc. I play this way all the time, even when I am sure that I will find the ball. It doesn’t hurt to have extra "practise". Many people here will not agree with this, but If they played among trees and bush like I do, they would think twice about not hitting again! We also have a CUTE family of Foxes that wait for the ball to hit the fairway, then dash out and steal them. Many a time I have wanted to use my 22 iron for the next shot—but I guess that would not be cool! Our club has ruled that we must hit a provisional in this case also, if we suspect interference. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. When I am playing for practice…..I like to putt everything…that’s what practice is…. When I am playing tournament golf …I always putt everything…that’s what golf is….. BUT…. when I’m playing a relaxing 4 ball with a few of my buddies and just enjoying a beautiful evening or afternoon on the course…..who gives a rat’s ass??? If they want to play inside the leather…fine with me…I enjoy it just as much…… In fact, I’m not sure I would want to play a "relaxing 4 ball" with someone that was so anal about the rules that they couldn’t play "inside the leather" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex) You can do anything you want to. If your opponents in your four ball concede you a putt, who cares? If you have a standing rule with these opponents that anything inside the leather is automatically conceded by the other side, so what? All perfectly within the rules of golf. What I can’t stand is when I’m not playing a match (and I haven’t played matchplay in years) and the other members of my foursome, whom I may or may not know, attempt to concede me a putt, or worse yet knock it away from the hole and say "that’s good." I’m not playing against *them*, I’m playing against the golf course. And further, I like to see the ball go in the hole. I have usually spent a damn lot of strokes trying to get it in there and I’m going to see it go! If you’re not keeping score it doesn’t matter what you do. Relax and have fun. But I’m almost always keeping score. Trying to see what the best score I can achieve today under the rules of golf is. The one area where I sometimes violate this is in the case of a lost ball. Going back to the tee to hit again would often cost too much in terms of pace of play, since I’m almost always walking. So what I do instead is drop a ball at the nearest playable spot to where I think I lost it and take a 2 stroke penalty. Stroke and distance, plus the assumption that I hit it near the same area again, and play my 4th shot from there. I figure that’s a fair compromise between I might have hit the next one down the middle, vs I might have lost another one. It’s not strictly under the rules of golf, but since the only scores I’m comparing them to are my own I doubt anyone else cares. But that brings me to a dilemma. I’m planning on joining the USGA and establishing a handicap this season, for the first time ever. What am I going to do in this situation. I really hate holding up play. On an empty course, there’s no problem. Hmm, what to do, what to do? Any advice? gary hayenga
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: score I can achieve today under the rules of golf is. The one area where I : sometimes violate this is in the case of a lost ball. Going back to the : tee to hit again would often cost too much in terms of pace of play, since : I’m almost always walking. So what I do instead is drop a ball at the : nearest playable spot to where I think I lost it and take a 2 stroke : penalty. Stroke and distance, plus the assumption that I hit it near the : same area again, and play my 4th shot from there. I figure that’s a fair : compromise between I might have hit the next one down the middle, vs I : might have lost another one. It’s not strictly under the rules of golf, : but since the only scores I’m comparing them to are my own I doubt anyone : else cares. : But that brings me to a dilemma. I’m planning on joining the USGA and : establishing a handicap this season, for the first time ever. What am I : going to do in this situation. I really hate holding up play. On an empty : course, there’s no problem. Hmm, what to do, what to do? : Any advice? If you think the ball might be lost, play a provisional from the tee. Of course, there’s still the times when you don’t, and you can’t find your ball. Drop and take 2, like you do. More often than not you’ll hit your ESC limit for the hole anyway, so your handicap will be fine. Even if you’re off by a stroke or 2, that’ll only affect your handicap by .1 or .2, so I wouldn’t stress over it too much. Richard Stern http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/sternr.htm
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I couldn’t agree more! After all, this is "recreational sports golf" NG isn’t it 
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Colin….. I obviously don’t have any problem with people who take drops at OOB, pick up 3 footers, throw the ball out of the bush or take preferred lies…as for their score…I just hope they enter it in their hcp…. when playing a tourney or such, their hcp will be artificially low…..and that’s good for me…especially if we have a little side bet going…yippeee…..Lorry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. In a casual round with your friends, I don’t care what you do. You can take gimmes, drop at the point of OOB, take a mulligan, throw it out of the bunker or roll it on the fairway for all I care. If it keeps some level of enjoyment, not to mention speed around the course, then by all means do it. The problem to me only comes when people do all these things, then still claim a certain score. They come in and say "I shot an 84". That might be an interesting comparison with your mates who have all played in the same fashion, but I know it wasn’t a "real" 84, it was a "fake" 84. If you think you shot 84 when you took ten gimmes, twelve roll-ons, two drops for OOB, and a couple of kicks from behind a bush, the only person you "cheated" with such a claim is yourself. It’s quite likely with "inside the leather" gimmes that if you had to putt them out you’d miss at least one or two for a start. I belong to a club and play about 95% of my rounds in club competitions or tournaments where the Rules of Golf must be adhered to. I can’t do any of the things I mentioned in my first paragraph without them counting (either a one or two stroke penalty or, where I don’t correct it, disqualification). I know my score will be a *real* score, played under the Rules of Golf, and I’m not deluding anyone. I’m not trying to be one of the moralisers, but simply pointing to the reality. Some people are real sticklers for the Rules to the point of overbearance. Some of us happen to believe you can follow the Rules closely and still enjoy the game. But hey … if you want to play golf purely for "fun", do what you like! It’s no skin off my nose, especially if I ever met you in a real competition . BTW, in Match Play gimmes are acceptable by the Rules, but your opponent has to concede, rather than you just claiming them using an arbitrary measure like "inside the leather". Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
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I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful.
In a casual round with your friends, I don’t care what you do. You can take gimmes, drop at the point of OOB, take a mulligan, throw it out of the bunker or roll it on the fairway for all I care. If it keeps some level of enjoyment, not to mention speed around the course, then by all means do it. The problem to me only comes when people do all these things, then still claim a certain score. They come in and say "I shot an 84". That might be an interesting comparison with your mates who have all played in the same fashion, but I know it wasn’t a "real" 84, it was a "fake" 84. If you think you shot 84 when you took ten gimmes, twelve roll-ons, two drops for OOB, and a couple of kicks from behind a bush, the only person you "cheated" with such a claim is yourself. It’s quite likely with "inside the leather" gimmes that if you had to putt them out you’d miss at least one or two for a start. I belong to a club and play about 95% of my rounds in club competitions or tournaments where the Rules of Golf must be adhered to. I can’t do any of the things I mentioned in my first paragraph without them counting (either a one or two stroke penalty or, where I don’t correct it, disqualification). I know my score will be a *real* score, played under the Rules of Golf, and I’m not deluding anyone. I’m not trying to be one of the moralisers, but simply pointing to the reality. Some people are real sticklers for the Rules to the point of overbearance. Some of us happen to believe you can follow the Rules closely and still enjoy the game. But hey … if you want to play golf purely for "fun", do what you like! It’s no skin off my nose, especially if I ever met you in a real competition . BTW, in Match Play gimmes are acceptable by the Rules, but your opponent has to concede, rather than you just claiming them using an arbitrary measure like "inside the leather". Cheers Colin Wilson RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/wilsonc.htm Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. When I am playing for practice…..I like to putt everything…that’s what practice is…. When I am playing tournament golf …I always putt everything…that’s what golf is….. BUT…. when I’m playing a relaxing 4 ball with a few of my buddies and just enjoying a beautiful evening or afternoon on the course…..who gives a rat’s ass??? If they want to play inside the leather…fine with me…I enjoy it just as much…… In fact, I’m not sure I would want to play a "relaxing 4 ball" with someone that was so anal about the rules that they couldn’t play "inside the leather" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex)
You can do anything you want to. If your opponents in your four ball concede you a putt, who cares? If you have a standing rule with these opponents that anything inside the leather is automatically conceded by the other side, so what? All perfectly within the rules of golf. What I can’t stand is when I’m not playing a match (and I haven’t played matchplay in years) and the other members of my foursome, whom I may or may not know, attempt to concede me a putt, or worse yet knock it away from the hole and say "that’s good." I’m not playing against *them*, I’m playing against the golf course. And further, I like to see the ball go in the hole. I have usually spent a damn lot of strokes trying to get it in there and I’m going to see it go! If you’re not keeping score it doesn’t matter what you do. Relax and have fun. But I’m almost always keeping score. Trying to see what the best score I can achieve today under the rules of golf is. The one area where I sometimes violate this is in the case of a lost ball. Going back to the tee to hit again would often cost too much in terms of pace of play, since I’m almost always walking. So what I do instead is drop a ball at the nearest playable spot to where I think I lost it and take a 2 stroke penalty. Stroke and distance, plus the assumption that I hit it near the same area again, and play my 4th shot from there. I figure that’s a fair compromise between I might have hit the next one down the middle, vs I might have lost another one. It’s not strictly under the rules of golf, but since the only scores I’m comparing them to are my own I doubt anyone else cares. But that brings me to a dilemma. I’m planning on joining the USGA and establishing a handicap this season, for the first time ever. What am I going to do in this situation. I really hate holding up play. On an empty course, there’s no problem. Hmm, what to do, what to do? Any advice? gary hayenga
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. When I am playing for practice…..I like to putt everything…that’s what practice is…. When I am playing tournament golf …I always putt everything…that’s what golf is….. BUT…. when I’m playing a relaxing 4 ball with a few of my buddies and just enjoying a beautiful evening or afternoon on the course…..who gives a rat’s ass??? If they want to play inside the leather…fine with me…I enjoy it just as much…… In fact, I’m not sure I would want to play a "relaxing 4 ball" with someone that was so anal about the rules that they couldn’t play "inside the leather" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex)
I wouldn’t let it bother you, Lorry, and you certainly shouldn’t resign. Sure, there are some here who feel the need to impose their values and beliefs upon you, but I think they are the vocal minority. I also think there are many more here who see golf for what it is: a game that can be enjoyed in many ways. As long as you are enjoying your golf, that’s all that really matters. Bruce RSG Roll Call: http://u1.netgate.net/~kirby34/rsg/newmanb.htm http://go.to/bruce_newman
Response:
I am sure getting tired or the righteous indignation so many RSG members feel the need to crow, whenever some ordinary RSG member admits to committing the ultimate sin of (Sharp intake of breath here) "taking a gimme"…ooooooh..you took a gimmee…you heathen, you philistine, you… you… you… you perverter of all things pure and beautiful. When I am playing for practice…..I like to putt everything…that’s what practice is…. When I am playing tournament golf …I always putt everything…that’s what golf is….. BUT…. when I’m playing a relaxing 4 ball with a few of my buddies and just enjoying a beautiful evening or afternoon on the course…..who gives a rat’s ass??? If they want to play inside the leather…fine with me…I enjoy it just as much…… In fact, I’m not sure I would want to play a "relaxing 4 ball" with someone that was so anal about the rules that they couldn’t play "inside the leather" Try as I might, I just can’t get worked up about it…..Maybe I should resign my membership in RSG ..where so many like to puff out their chest and claim that special virtue of "I never take a gimme" Lorry…(just stepping off the soap-box and into his nomex)