Question:
I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts??? No one was below par at either the US Open or British Open in ‘98. Oh, yeah, technology has really turned the game on its ears. Randy
Obviously the longer you hit it, the shorter the approach. But, one point no one has brought up is the greens. Maybe the reason the scores have remained similar throughout the years is because the greens are harder to putt on. At the majors you see guys 3 putt regularily and even occasionally 4 putt! I guess my theory is that maybe in years past the greens weren’t either so fast or so undulating and the players 3 putted less than today. Just a thought.
Response:
John Solheim, President of Ping Golf, says that the way to put a ceiling on what technology can do for the players is to set up the golf courses so that the fairways "pinch in" at about the 250 or 260 yard mark (not that such an adjustment would have any effect whatsoever on *my* game). It would force those who get the extra distance to go with 3-wood more often, thereby maintaining the old courses’ integrity.
I see. Let’s force the player who has an advantage due to length back to the short knockers landing area. That sounds fair. The solution has to be fair to everybody. You can’t single out part of the population and penalize only them. The problem isn’t only the fairway width. The big advantage with the new drivers is you can blow it over the bunkers at the corner of the dogleg. Instead of playing the hole as it was intended, you can now hit wedge on many holes that used to require a mid iron. If the rough isn’t US Open length, I don’t care how wide the fairway is if I can hit a wedge instead of a 5 iron. Bob Dietrich
Response:
I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???
Maybe they should also consider getting rid of metal shafts, at one time they were considered game improving. Looking at the winning scores from the U.S. Open the last several years I don’t think equipment is making that much of a difference. It may be making the game more forgiven, but not easier.
Response:
Interesting point, Don. John Solheim, President of Ping Golf, says that the way to put a ceiling on what technology can do for the players is to set up the golf courses so that the fairways "pinch in" at about the 250 or 260 yard mark (not that such an adjustment would have any effect whatsoever on *my* game). It would force those who get the extra distance to go with 3-wood more often, thereby maintaining the old courses’ integrity.
And this is more or less what the USGA does at its national Open championships. And the result is complaints by many of the longer pros that the course does not test all aspects of the game (read: I can’t hit my driver straight so I have to keep it in the bag) and is thus flawed. The baseball analogy is interesting. They regulated equipment because they were unwilling and/or unable to change the playing field. Whereas the USGA/R&A are forced to change the playing field because they are unwilling and/or unable to regulate equipment effectively. Chris
Response:
: Hello, : : With all due respect to the opinions that the final leader boards indicate : that the players are being held in check, it took gale force winds at the : British Open and ludicrously high rough at the US Open to keep the players in : check. It has always been that way, take a look at old open pictures from the 40’s and 50’s, Ernie Els would get lost forever in that rough. And the heather at the British open has always been high and the wind has been blowing. Since the first shepherd discovered that he could send a pebble an astounding distance with a good swift lick of his crook! — "Forget about World Peace…Visualize using your turn signal." Rick DeMent "Time to pull a quick Hank Snow." : : Jack Nicklaus had a very good point that the very high rough takes away the : recovery shot. Whether it was pure skill, luck and skill or just luck, how : many in this newsgroup would disagree that the bunker shot by Watts at the : 72nd hole of the British Open was magnificent. Why was it so magnificent? : There are many reasons, of course. One of those reasons was that it was a : recovery shot. : : The ludicrously high rough at the US Open that the organizers use in a : desperate attempt to keep the players in check, turns the players into farmers : hacking away at hay for their cows rather than professional golfers playing : beautiful recovery shots to get back into the hunt for the title. : : Remember the scores at the end of the first day at the British Open? What do : you think the scores would have been if the weather has stayed that way : throughout the tournament? The winning score would have very well been -12 or : -14 or something like that… : : Yes, the technology is allowing the players to over power the courses 
: : Unfortunately, the solutions such as ludicrously high rough does just as much : harm ((( : : JB : :
Response:
Makes a lot of sense to me. A couple of the longer par 4s on my "home" course pinch in at about 240-250. If I take driver and hit it flush I might still end up in the spinach if I’m slightly off-line. Does that keep me from hitting driver? No, but that’s another thread entirely 
.
And, of course, the PGA would have to adopt the "Tiger pinch" at the 300 yard mark on the courses it plays on. <g
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<But frankly, I find baseball to be a bit hypocritcal on this point. Why do they ban metal bats but keep adding more "rabbit" to the ball? Your joking right? What you call "Rabbit" is the combination of bigger stronger players (due to diet, training, drugs etc…) in a sport that rewards skill, combined with explosive power. Pro athletes are better conditioned today then they were even 30 years ago, especially in baseball. I will concede that rules changes in baseball have been all in the hitters favor over the last 30 years, but this has been to keep pace with the pitching which has been undergoing similar evolutions. The ball has remained unchanged since the introduction of rubber/cork centers in the 20’s. Even with that the season records are ancient. Batting average; the top ten season records all set before 1925. Hits 1920. Doubles, Triples, Runs, RBI’s, Slugging, not one set after 1931. Newest season record, home runs 1961, and stolen bases 1982. Golf on the other hand is harder to gage. What were course conditions say 60 years ago? I would think worse. Equipment was worse (arguably) and yet scores seem to have stayed about the same. the masters was won in 34 by a score of 284 in 98 Mark O won with a score of 279. Masters scores in the 270’s did not pop up with any regularity until after 1964. But still in the over all scheme of things this does not seem like a major freefall of scores. It is harder to compare golf courses due to the variables. I would say that the game is safe however. — "Forget about World Peace…Visualize using your turn signal." Rick DeMent "Time to pull a quick Hank Snow." : I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of : golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about : how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. : What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would : really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???<< : : MLB bans metal bats because the technology results in more home runs than human : effort does. But frankly, I find baseball to be a bit hypocritcal on this : point. Why do they ban metal bats but keep adding more "rabbit" to the ball? : : Golf, on the other hand, has not seen scores decrease as a result of : improvements in equipment. Sure, you can hit the ball farther, but that : doesn’t make it any easier to reach greens in regulation. Yes, I know it’s : easier to reach a green with a 90-yard wedge shot than a 150-yard 7-iron shot, : but the pros still make pars and birdies about as frequently as they did 20 : years ago. When they start putting electromagnets in the ball to direct you : straight to the cup, then we’ve got something to worry about. : : As for balata balls, I use them now and again only because they’re great for : putting. But then, I’m still a duffer who considers himself lucky to hit a : drive straight and 230. Balata, titanium, two-piece, three-piece, : 90-compression, 100-compression — pfah! I still shoot 95 on a good day, : whether I’m using top-line Maxfis or driving range balls… : : John L :
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No one was below par at either the US Open or British Open in ‘98. Oh, yeah, technology has really turned the game on its ears. And you can add the just-completed US Senior Open at Riviera to the list, Randy. Maybe it’s that modern golf courses have gotten easier, not that equipment is "ruining" the game. Somehow, the truly tough courses seem to stand up to the test of time. My theory is that modern courses are laid out too wide open to accommodate the growing number of carts. You can be 50 yards off line and still be in the "fairway" on some of them. Give me an old course cut through the woods any day.
Interesting point, Don. John Solheim, President of Ping Golf, says that the way to put a ceiling on what technology can do for the players is to set up the golf courses so that the fairways "pinch in" at about the 250 or 260 yard mark (not that such an adjustment would have any effect whatsoever on *my* game). It would force those who get the extra distance to go with 3-wood more often, thereby maintaining the old courses’ integrity. Randy
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|Yes, the technology is allowing the players to over power the courses But the player still has to swing the club.
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No scores below par in the Senior Open also. It’s all in how the courses are set up. If they have difficult rough, the scores are way up as at Riviera. Add some sand traps further out and let the rough grow and you’ll neutralize the long hitters. You won’t see -20 winning those tournaments.
Response:
John Solheim, President of Ping Golf, says that the way to put a ceiling on what technology can do for the players is to set up the golf courses so that the fairways "pinch in" at about the 250 or 260 yard mark (not that such an adjustment would have any effect whatsoever on *my* game). It would force those who get the extra distance to go with 3-wood more often, thereby maintaining the old courses’ integrity. Randy
Makes a lot of sense to me. A couple of the longer par 4s on my "home" course pinch in at about 240-250. If I take driver and hit it flush I might still end up in the spinach if I’m slightly off-line. Does that keep me from hitting driver? No, but that’s another thread entirely . Remsleep
Response:
No one was below par at either the US Open or British Open in ‘98. Oh, yeah, technology has really turned the game on its ears.
And you can add the just-completed US Senior Open at Riviera to the list, Randy. Maybe it’s that modern golf courses have gotten easier, not that equipment is "ruining" the game. Somehow, the truly tough courses seem to stand up to the test of time. My theory is that modern courses are laid out too wide open to accommodate the growing number of carts. You can be 50 yards off line and still be in the "fairway" on some of them. Give me an old course cut through the woods any day.
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Money!! The biggest change in the world of golf is the money. The increases in the depth of very fine golfers on Tour is due to the tremendous increase in money available. More and more players of Tour ability are able to stay on Tour rather than have other jobs or outside sources of income. This increase in the field of available talent makes the Tour more difficult to dominate. That is why there will never be another record like Jack’s or Snead’s Or Nelson’s. There is too much talent overall for a single player to rise consistently above all the others for an extended period. Professional golf is so much more difficult now than it ever has been before. Any player with multiple wins in a season is really accomplishing an important mark. The level they play is far above that of mortal hackers. Mitch Alderman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frankly, your assumptions in this last post are not entirely correct. They are some of the most persistent "urban legends" out there. According to the USGA the "average distance" that the golf ball flies today is not statistically different than that of 10 or more years ago. See appendix III of the USGA Rules of Golf (sub paragraph (e) ). The MAXIMUM that a ball can carry and roll, in the same approved test used for YEARS, is 280 yards (+ up to 6% or a total of 296.8 yards). But why, you undoubtedly ask, do Tiger and Daly et al. hit the ball routinely over 300 yards. Hint, its not the ball! That leaves the club or the golfer. True, the clubs have changed, as I can routinely hit my push/slice so far that even blood hounds can’t find it. But I would venture to guess that the biggest change is the players. Listen to Nicklaus talk about how a "fit player" in Jack’s prime was compared to a "fit player" today. The tour pros are, by definition, paid to play golf. They can eat sleep and think it 24/7. They can hire trainers, psychologists and guys who can fix their swings line up to give free advice. In short, the player today can learn from the best in a short amount of time. If there really was some "magic bullet" out there, I would have it. As would everyone else and then we are right back at square one. Golf is attractive because it is nearly impossible to master it. Some seem to for a while, but even they have bad days and hit slumps. To specifically address your comment about Balata balls. No it would have little effect as the ball choice is mainly one of personal preference and psychology and not mechanics. Balata may not max out the distance standard, but if you restrict the play to Balata balls they will, in a matter of months I bet, be just as long a ball as the ones you banned. So your only hope is to restrict what a player does in his free time (i.e., reading about the game, consulting coaches etc. are all forbidden.) and/or make everyone play with 20 year old clubs. Good luck on either front. Best bet for me is to quit worrying about the rest and get out there and play. Golf is a game of you versus yourself. anything else is gravy. Jeff I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???
Response:
I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???
No one was below par at either the US Open or British Open in ‘98. Oh, yeah, technology has really turned the game on its ears. Randy
Response:
Frankly, your assumptions in this last post are not entirely correct. They are some of the most persistent "urban legends" out there. According to the USGA the "average distance" that the golf ball flies today is not statistically different than that of 10 or more years ago. See appendix III of the USGA Rules of Golf (sub paragraph (e) ). The MAXIMUM that a ball can carry and roll, in the same approved test used for YEARS, is 280 yards (+ up to 6% or a total of 296.8 yards). But why, you undoubtedly ask, do Tiger and Daly et al. hit the ball routinely over 300 yards. Hint, its not the ball! That leaves the club or the golfer. True, the clubs have changed, as I can routinely hit my push/slice so far that even blood hounds can’t find it. But I would venture to guess that the biggest change is the players. Listen to Nicklaus talk about how a "fit player" in Jack’s prime was compared to a "fit player" today. The tour pros are, by definition, paid to play golf. They can eat sleep and think it 24/7. They can hire trainers, psychologists and guys who can fix their swings line up to give free advice. In short, the player today can learn from the best in a short amount of time. If there really was some "magic bullet" out there, I would have it. As would everyone else and then we are right back at square one. Golf is attractive because it is nearly impossible to master it. Some seem to for a while, but even they have bad days and hit slumps. To specifically address your comment about Balata balls. No it would have little effect as the ball choice is mainly one of personal preference and psychology and not mechanics. Balata may not max out the distance standard, but if you restrict the play to Balata balls they will, in a matter of months I bet, be just as long a ball as the ones you banned. So your only hope is to restrict what a player does in his free time (i.e., reading about the game, consulting coaches etc. are all forbidden.) and/or make everyone play with 20 year old clubs. Good luck on either front. Best bet for me is to quit worrying about the rest and get out there and play. Golf is a game of you versus yourself. anything else is gravy. Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???
Response:
I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of
golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???<< MLB bans metal bats because the technology results in more home runs than human effort does. But frankly, I find baseball to be a bit hypocritcal on this point. Why do they ban metal bats but keep adding more "rabbit" to the ball? Golf, on the other hand, has not seen scores decrease as a result of improvements in equipment. Sure, you can hit the ball farther, but that doesn’t make it any easier to reach greens in regulation. Yes, I know it’s easier to reach a green with a 90-yard wedge shot than a 150-yard 7-iron shot, but the pros still make pars and birdies about as frequently as they did 20 years ago. When they start putting electromagnets in the ball to direct you straight to the cup, then we’ve got something to worry about. As for balata balls, I use them now and again only because they’re great for putting. But then, I’m still a duffer who considers himself lucky to hit a drive straight and 230. Balata, titanium, two-piece, three-piece, 90-compression, 100-compression — pfah! I still shoot 95 on a good day, whether I’m using top-line Maxfis or driving range balls… John L
Response:
I was thinking about how many people are complaining about the ‘Game’ of golf disapering. The Ti Drivers and Super long balls. I also thought about how Major Leagues baseball have banned Metal bats and only play Wooden bats. What if the USGA banned all golf balls but Balata covering. That would really bring back the Game. Any thoughts???