Question:
‘They’ need to fix this net thing. Even with all the bandwidth, sarcasm still rarely gets through. What a pile of B.S. Certainly you are pulling our legs when you suggest that the impact of a titaninum driver on a ball is equal (or even close to) to the impact of a ball landing on the ground.
Titanium? Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape.
[snip] Steve
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The stuff about the ball regaining its spheroid shape when it hits the ground _is_ BS. But what you(Tom Phillips)are suggesting, is that somehow the ball _gained_ energy during its flight. In fact, the ball doesn’t even hit the ground with the same "impact" as was struck upon the ball. Some energy lost as heat in the deformation of the ball, some as heat due to friction with the air… etc. tim r – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a pile of B.S. Certainly you are pulling our legs when you suggest that the impact of a titaninum driver on a ball is equal (or even close to) to the impact of a ball landing on the ground. Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape. Should the ball come into violent contact with any solid object before hitting the ground, that impact will restore its spherical shape, and then, the further impact with the ground will deform it. To maintain its original shape, the golf ball must come into contact with an even number of solid objects, including the club head (or hosel) and the ground, during each flight. This also explains why most balls dredged from water hazards are not as good as brand new Titleists. * For a technical account of this principle of physics, see: Murchison, F., and Steinmittzberger, S. "Uber das mekaniks der spherengeluften." J. Nat. Soc. Phys. (Edinborough) Vol. 126, Pp. 631-644, 1955. -Robby P. — "We know the truth, not only by the reason, but by the heart. (Pascal, Pensees,1670). The "Pensees Nouvelles", a multisubject magazine on the World Wide Web, may be found at: http://www.emory.edu/PATHOLOGY/PENSEES Vol. 2, No.4 - THE HOLIDAY ISSUE - is now on line. Contents: Certification in Pathology "Twas the Month Before Christmas Dog Days on the Golf Course A Golfer’s Winter Library
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Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver?
The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape. Should the ball come into violent contact with any solid object before hitting the ground, that impact will restore its spherical shape, and then, the further impact with the ground will deform it. To maintain its original shape, the golf ball must come into contact with an even number of solid objects, including the club head (or hosel) and the ground, during each flight. This also explains why most balls dredged from water hazards are not as good as brand new Titleists. * For a technical account of this principle of physics, see: Murchison, F., and Steinmittzberger, S. "Uber das mekaniks der spherengeluften." J. Nat. Soc. Phys. (Edinborough) Vol. 126, Pp. 631-644, 1955. -Robby P. — "We know the truth, not only by the reason, but by the heart. (Pascal, Pensees,1670). The "Pensees Nouvelles", a multisubject magazine on the World Wide Web, may be found at: http://www.emory.edu/PATHOLOGY/PENSEES Vol. 2, No.4 - THE HOLIDAY ISSUE - is now on line. Contents: Certification in Pathology "Twas the Month Before Christmas Dog Days on the Golf Course A Golfer’s Winter Library
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What a pile of B.S. Certainly you are pulling our legs when you suggest that the impact of a titaninum driver on a ball is equal (or even close to) to the impact of a ball landing on the ground. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape. Should the ball come into violent contact with any solid object before hitting the ground, that impact will restore its spherical shape, and then, the further impact with the ground will deform it. To maintain its original shape, the golf ball must come into contact with an even number of solid objects, including the club head (or hosel) and the ground, during each flight. This also explains why most balls dredged from water hazards are not as good as brand new Titleists. * For a technical account of this principle of physics, see: Murchison, F., and Steinmittzberger, S. "Uber das mekaniks der spherengeluften." J. Nat. Soc. Phys. (Edinborough) Vol. 126, Pp. 631-644, 1955. -Robby P. — "We know the truth, not only by the reason, but by the heart. (Pascal, Pensees,1670). The "Pensees Nouvelles", a multisubject magazine on the World Wide Web, may be found at: http://www.emory.edu/PATHOLOGY/PENSEES Vol. 2, No.4 - THE HOLIDAY ISSUE - is now on line. Contents: Certification in Pathology "Twas the Month Before Christmas Dog Days on the Golf Course A Golfer’s Winter Library
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m kind of late into this thread. but i have to agree somewhat with chuck. a 19 handicapper probably isn’t going to make much benefit from a balata ball except for a hole in thier pocket. as for a slice affecting a balata ball. see how long a balata ball lasts once it hits something solid like a tree. [snip] I’ve had trouble thinking about this for a while. Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? All the energy that propels the ball comes through the clubhead and even that energy is only partially transmitted through the first collision with the ball. Later, after some energy has been lost (and without any new energy source), the next collision deforms the ball more? Collisions are complicate, deformation more so. This hand-waving must be missing something. Help, Steve
Well, another reason not to use a balata if you are a high handicapper is this: Balatas are high spin balls, they will enhance a slice. Also when I was a high handicapper, I lost several balls in a round (water and trees), I would hate those to be $5 balls. Rick
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Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape.
Thanks Robby P.. I needed that. Turned my day right around. Steve
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? The answer lies in the fact that each well (or even poorly) hit golf ball is initially distorted by the impact of the club, but, according to the law of conservation of morphology and momentum*, the impact of the ball hitting the ground returns it to its original shape. Should the ball come into violent contact with any solid object before hitting the ground, that impact will restore its spherical shape, and then, the further impact with the ground will deform it. To maintain its original shape, the golf ball must come into contact with an even number of solid objects, including the club head (or hosel) and the ground, during each flight. This also explains why most balls dredged from water hazards are not as good as brand new Titleists.
Excellent point Robert. I don’t believe that has ever been brought up here on RSG before. You did leave off an important related fact: Each time a golf ball is stuck the mass of the ball diminishes in proportion to the force of the strike. This explains why you can never find those drives that you have duck hooked into the trees. They have rattled around so much they have simply disappeared. I can not remember the reference paper, but you can work it out yourself. Take your driver and a bucket of new balatas (their mass diminishes just a bit quicker than a 2-piece) out to the woods. Have at it. You don’t need to duck hook every ball, but it helps. Now see how many you can find and report the results back to the newsgroup. Good luck! Paul
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i’m kind of late into this thread. but i have to agree somewhat with chuck. a 19 handicapper probably isn’t going to make much benefit from a balata ball except for a hole in thier pocket. as for a slice affecting a balata ball. see how long a balata ball lasts once it hits something solid like a tree.
[snip] I’ve had trouble thinking about this for a while. Why would hitting a something solid, like a tree, deform a golf ball anymore than the collision with a well hit driver? All the energy that propels the ball comes through the clubhead and even that energy is only partially transmitted through the first collision with the ball. Later, after some energy has been lost (and without any new energy source), the next collision deforms the ball more? Collisions are complicate, deformation more so. This hand-waving must be missing something. Help, Steve
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I play golf often with a short hitting, high handicapper who insists on playing these rock-like "distance" balls such as Topflite XL. The extra distance on his tee shots, if any, isn’t significant, but when he hits a full pitching wedge onto the front of a green, it rolls right over the back of the green. If he played a ball with a little more spin, it would help his game tremendously. If Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble played golf, they would play the Topflite XL.
Actually, the Top-Flite XL aint what it used to be. It’s no Z-Balata, but it’s hardly the Rock Flite of the old days. I also have to disagree with your notion that poorer players ought to play spin balls. You fall into the mistake of thinking spin only works one way. Can’t blame you because that’s what manufacturers promote. But the truth is that a poorer player probably sprays the ball a lot, meaning he puts side spin on the ball. If he uses a spin ball, that hook or slice becomes magnified. Spin just refers to the fact that the ball spins more easily, the only way to control the direction of that spin is with your swing.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do I understand this correctly? Your suggesting a 19 handicapper use a balata ball. They will need to take out a second job to pay for golf balls. Two swings and the ball will be out of round. Top-flite 15 paks are just fine for a 19 handicapper. Chuck, what is your handicap? Are you a golfing god who plays to a single digit handicap? If I come across the ball and slice it, how does that make it go out of round faster? If I top it, maybe… Are you saying someone who shoots low 90’s is a horrible golfer? How about this: One stroke per hole. Miss the green, chip on and two putt. Do that every hole, and you’re about a 19. Not a big difference, but that’s why it is so hard to shoot under 90. Now, as I have already said in this thread, most 19 handicappers wouldn’t want a balata ball. Too much sidespin. However, TopFlites are too far to the other extreme. No feel. Still, why must people deride people who get around the course quickly, enjoy the game, and occasionally do well? Sure, a par to me might be like a birdie to you, but that’s the beauty of golf, you can set your own goals and within reason, play with anyone. The number I would say is the point where flog becomes golf is around 108. Double Bogey. Maybe my impression is skewed by playing on a tough course for the first year (70.8/126 from the whites), but once you regularly break 108, you can start thinking about the ball you play. -Brian
i’m kind of late into this thread. but i have to agree somewhat with chuck. a 19 handicapper probably isn’t going to make much benefit from a balata ball except for a hole in thier pocket. as for a slice affecting a balata ball. see how long a balata ball lasts once it hits something solid like a tree. i wouldn’t go the whole way and say a 19 handicapper should just use anything. imho a performance 2 piece would be worth trying out. as an aside a few years ago i was playing competitively off low single figures and at the time you only really had 2 choices rock or balata. i was going through 3 balatas a round at about $6-7 a piece which by the end of the round was another $20 not in my pocket. i’m still playing off a low handicap now using hp2 tours. one ball costs me $4 and unless i lose it will always last the entire round. i think performnce wise they aren’t costing me strokes and they feel pretty good. — peace brett brett r fenton school of civil engineering university of nsw australia
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What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?)
IMHO, whatever ball gives you more confidence, use it. 19 handicappers have a number of things going on that have more of an impact on their score than the ball they use. It is like worrying about a broken finger nail when you about to drown.
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This reminded me of a great line I heard at a Goldwin golf clinic. I noticed a friend of mine was working the "clinic" at our driving range. I came up behind him and asked what he recommended for a 26 handicapper. He said, "A bottle of Jack Daniels and a bowling ball". 
Seriously, as a former person with at least a 19 handicap (now an 11), I have gone through all sorts of ball brands. I used what gave me confidence at the time. I think that’s the best advice.
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All kidding aside, use any ball that fels good and you can keep in play.
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What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?) The cheapest one you can find. Seriously, it will not make a lot of difference and besides, you handicap is not the determining factor. You could be a big guy and hit hard but have a 19 because you are a lousy putter with a bad short game or as old as me with a maximum 150 yard drive but a good short game. As to difference in distance based on compression 10 points of compression will change distance by 2 yards as tested on Iron Byron.
I disagree. In some ways, I think the choice of ball may be even more important for a poor player than a good player. A good player can probably stop his approach shots reasonably well with any kind of ball. A poor player (especially one without much clubhead speed) needs all the help he can get. I play golf often with a short hitting, high handicapper who insists on playing these rock-like "distance" balls such as Topflite XL. The extra distance on his tee shots, if any, isn’t significant, but when he hits a full pitching wedge onto the front of a green, it rolls right over the back of the green. If he played a ball with a little more spin, it would help his game tremendously. If Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble played golf, they would play the Topflite XL. Kevin
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In some ways, I think the choice of ball may be even more important for a poor player than a good player. A good player can probably stop his approach shots reasonably well with any kind of ball. A poor player (especially one without much clubhead speed) needs all the help he can get. I play golf often with a short hitting, high handicapper who insists on playing these rock-like "distance" balls such as Topflite XL. The extra distance on his tee shots, if any, isn’t significant, but when he hits a full pitching wedge onto the front of a green, it rolls right over the back of the green. If he played a ball with a little more spin, it would help his game tremendously. If Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble played golf, they would play the Topflite XL. Kevin
Here’s the rub: If you get more backspin, you also get more sidespin. I don’t like playing TopRocks because they are horrible to chip and putt with. If I go to the other end of the spectrum and go to a Titelist Tour Balata, the 10-15 yard left to right motion of my 4 iron with a Maxfli XD or MD becomes a 25-35 yard slice. Sure that Balata feels good when I putt it, but on those long second shots it gives trouble. If your ball doesn’t stop on the green, land it short and let it run on. It’s as simple as that… The idea is to find compromise. I like more spin than the XL, but less spin than the balatas. As my swing improves, I’ll move to a two piece spin ball when I can control it. -Brian
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The factor isn’t your handicap but the nature of your swing. There is a big difference in balls. The two common categories are spin and distance balls. Spin balls have a higher center of gravity, meaning they rotate more quickly. Often they also have soft covers, which further allow the ball to grip the clubface on contact. Spin balls help generate backspin, but they also help generate side spin (hey spin is spin). In short if you spray the ball, you’ll spray more with spin ball. You might want to consider the oversize balls of (Magna or Pinnacle oversize) The larger size reduces spin, but also causes the ball to fly high. In other words not a good ball for windy conditions. If you have good control, a spin ball will bea easier to draw, fade and stick. However, on straight shots, especially tee shots where you might be looking for run, that spin ball will not run and. The distance balls are prone more to run. There’s really not much to them. As one person at manufacturer’s R&D division put it to me once. A spin ball is like a sports car and distance ball is like the family sedan. There’s a lot more to think about with a spin ball than with a distance ball. If you are a beginner or even mid-handicapper, you’ll probably want to hang out around the distance balls. As to the issue of compression. Most golfers just can’t tell the difference, and it’s not an exact science either. 90 compression isn’t exactly 90 compression could be a few points higher or lower. Most manufacturers aren’t that exact because they can’t be exact. Compression just measures the hardness of the ball. What they do is put 200lbs of force on the ball and they measure how much the ball compresses in 1000ths of an inch. They then deduct that that from 200. For example a ball compress 0.103 inches that’s a raw 97 compression ball, but it gets labelled 100 compression. Another one compresses 0.105. That’s a raw 95 compression, but the manufacturer might consider that 90 compression. The difference in distance is minimal (about .3 percent from what I’ve seen) that’s about a yard on a typical touring pros drive.
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Do I understand this correctly? Your suggesting a 19 handicapper use a balata ball. They will need to take out a second job to pay for golf balls. Two swings and the ball will be out of round. Top-flite 15 paks are just fine for a 19 handicapper.
Chuck, what is your handicap? Are you a golfing god who plays to a single digit handicap? If I come across the ball and slice it, how does that make it go out of round faster? If I top it, maybe… Are you saying someone who shoots low 90’s is a horrible golfer? How about this: One stroke per hole. Miss the green, chip on and two putt. Do that every hole, and you’re about a 19. Not a big difference, but that’s why it is so hard to shoot under 90. Now, as I have already said in this thread, most 19 handicappers wouldn’t want a balata ball. Too much sidespin. However, TopFlites are too far to the other extreme. No feel. Still, why must people deride people who get around the course quickly, enjoy the game, and occasionally do well? Sure, a par to me might be like a birdie to you, but that’s the beauty of golf, you can set your own goals and within reason, play with anyone. The number I would say is the point where flog becomes golf is around 108. Double Bogey. Maybe my impression is skewed by playing on a tough course for the first year (70.8/126 from the whites), but once you regularly break 108, you can start thinking about the ball you play. -Brian
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?) The cheapest one you can find. Seriously, it will not make a lot of difference and besides, you handicap is not the determining factor. You could be a big guy and hit hard but have a 19 because you are a lousy putter with a bad short game or as old as me with a maximum 150 yard drive but a good short game. As to difference in distance based on compression 10 points of compression will change distance by 2 yards as tested on Iron Byron. I disagree. In some ways, I think the choice of ball may be even more important for a poor player than a good player. A good player can probably stop his approach shots reasonably well with any kind of ball. A poor player (especially one without much clubhead speed) needs all the help he can get. I play golf often with a short hitting, high handicapper who insists on playing these rock-like "distance" balls such as Topflite XL. The extra distance on his tee shots, if any, isn’t significant, but when he hits a full pitching wedge onto the front of a green, it rolls right over the back of the green. If he played a ball with a little more spin, it would help his game tremendously. If Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble played golf, they would play the Topflite XL. Kevin
That’s why I (around 16 hc) like Precept EV’s …. good distance, excellent spin and good feel (not as good as balata .. but OK) . Not as tough as those DDH’s or Pinnacles but a very solid ball for any handicapper IMO. My personal game stats can be found at the site below. — Jeffery J. Bohl, President Bohl Consolidated Technologies http://www.sover.net/~smasher/ Statmaster Golf Statistiscs Software the Professional’s Choice Official Stats program of the Independent Professional Golfer’s Assoc. Rank your whole game, not just your scores, against the world
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<HTML Titileist has a short questioneer on thier web site that <BRwill tell you which of thier balls is best for you. <BRDan
<BR <BR <BR What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf <BR ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?) <BR <PI have to disagree with Dan C. <PPlaying the cheapest ball you can find will only encourage you to give a <BRlackluster performance on the course. If you are happy playing to a 19 <BRhandicap then by all means take this approach, however if you want to <BRimprove, start by playing a quality, consistant ball type that you will <BRlearn to "feel". Your handicap will come down when you improve your <BRperformance from 120 yards in(the scoring distance). Of course a quality <BRball is not a replacement for practice, but practice does become more <BRproductive when you hit a consistant ball. Can you imagine a <BRprofessional bowler, or dart player using house equipment? My advice, <BRexperiment with several ball types (2-piece, Balata, Hybrid) and stick <BRwith the one that will give you consistant results. Balata is more <BRexpensive, but in my opinion, worth the extra cash(you can make up the <BRdifference by winning the $5 nassau). If you have any other questions <PJohn Currier <BRDirector of Golf <BRLegends Golf School <BRHooksett, NH <P The cheapest one you can find. <BR <BR Seriously, it will not make a lot of difference and besides, you handicap <BR is not the determining factor. You could be a big guy and hit hard but <BR have a 19 because you are a lousy putter with a bad short game or as old <BR as me with a maximum 150 yard drive but a good short game. <BR <BR As to difference in distance based on compression 10 points of compression <BR will change distance by 2 yards as tested on Iron Byron. <BR <BR — <BR DanC Search, Read, Post to Usenet</BLOCKQUOTE </HTML
Response:
What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?)
The cheapest one you can find. Seriously, it will not make a lot of difference and besides, you handicap is not the determining factor. You could be a big guy and hit hard but have a 19 because you are a lousy putter with a bad short game or as old as me with a maximum 150 yard drive but a good short game. As to difference in distance based on compression 10 points of compression will change distance by 2 yards as tested on Iron Byron. — DanC
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if you’re a 19 how about lessons!
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What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?)
I have to disagree with Dan C. Playing the cheapest ball you can find will only encourage you to give a lackluster performance on the course. If you are happy playing to a 19 handicap then by all means take this approach, however if you want to improve, start by playing a quality, consistant ball type that you will learn to "feel". Your handicap will come down when you improve your performance from 120 yards in(the scoring distance). Of course a quality ball is not a replacement for practice, but practice does become more productive when you hit a consistant ball. Can you imagine a professional bowler, or dart player using house equipment? My advice, experiment with several ball types (2-piece, Balata, Hybrid) and stick with the one that will give you consistant results. Balata is more expensive, but in my opinion, worth the extra cash(you can make up the difference by winning the $5 nassau). If you have any other questions John Currier Director of Golf Legends Golf School Hooksett, NH The cheapest one you can find. Seriously, it will not make a lot of difference and besides, you handicap is not the determining factor. You could be a big guy and hit hard but have a 19 because you are a lousy putter with a bad short game or as old as me with a maximum 150 yard drive but a good short game. As to difference in distance based on compression 10 points of compression will change distance by 2 yards as tested on Iron Byron. — DanC
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For just about everyone but the professionals, it probably just does not matter much. A general rule of thumb is that you should choose a 90 compression golf ball if you have an "average" swing speed, and a 100 compression ball if you have a very high swing speed. Also, you should probably NOT use a 100 comp. ball in cold weather conditions as it becomes harder to hit crisp shots. Basically, just choose a ball that "feels" right with your swing. I happen to like the Titleist DT Wound 90. It has a good soft "feel" and travels pretty well for my swing. Only practice and trying out a lot of different balls will help you find one that’s right for you. Hope this helps. — Evan W. Fleisher Bloomingdale, Illinois USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the preference for players with around a 19 handicap for a golf ball? (or does it matter for a 19 handicaper?)